England - Game Thread

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SARdoghandler said:
I feel like this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I'm feeling wolfy vibes from Samac's tone thus far. That said, it's entirely based on pre-yesterday's poof (by me) and content over the past 3-4 hours or so.
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Not unpopular with me. I’d love some insight and fresh eyes looking Samac who I’ve had a difficult time reading. Especially since I don’t agree with her wolf read on AM, and I’m not sure how I feel about her wolf read of April.
 
alissa14 said:
noting interaction with DocE. I think your points to him were fair.
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It's not just DocE. Go through my whole ISO for this cycle if you have to.
alissa14 said:
And so is MsP but I don’t see you yeeting stagg for it
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Wrong. She is a chronic lowposter, not an abandoner. Huge difference. One is solved with modkills. The other is solved with pressure. MsP has either rarely or never has an occurrence where she signed up and didn't post at least once.

Per last game, she also swore to be a new active MsP. I want to know why she has broken that promise suddenly.
alissa14 said:
*her very next post* vvvvvvvvv
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And?
alissa14 said:
and I did just ISO your post and it actually gave me no insight. So as you like to say. Reads please
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It's obvious you did not read it beyond a quick skim. Try again.
 
mkg323 said:
checking in from the barn real quick, cause I think it would be best to respond to this now instead of leaving it till right before yeet close:

I'm not saying ignore those who want to engage in discussion with you, but I would expect you to interact with more than the people opposing you and cray. I honestly held off making a decision on you or voting for you yesterday because I wanted to see you interact with other people and engage in discussions unrelated to your argument with Shorty, but unless I missed a page or something that never happened. I feel like you're still tunnelling on this stuff and I don't think that is at all helpful or pro-village. And I get that this is how you play, but when things get heated right off the bat on D1 it's not enjoyable for the rest of us, or at least not for me.


I said the same thing in regards to sunny, I'm not asking nor expecting anyone to post a fully fleshed out spreadsheet D1. But even if you don't want to post a list, even a shortened one, I'd hope to see you engaging on the thread with the different discussions going on, and sharing thoughts that way, but your play style is so reclusive I've yet to see it happen.
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But that's just the thing. That IS how I interact with people. I push and prod and make sure they are out of their comfort zone until I am content with them then move onto someone else. Unless you want me fighting with everyone at once?

It's not like I'm NOT paying attention to the fact that sunnyFL (or whatever the name is) backing me makes no sense and still hasn't explained it to anyone. To the point where others have said I'm a bizarre person for her to back. It's not like I'm NOT aware that LIS came on here and still said nothing of any merit in any of their 7ish posts except for backing up the fact that I always act this way and he has no great ideas yet... Which is a great way to lay low. it's not like I didn't notice that Crayola is backing me and I forgot that I have a clear blind spot for how to interpret her, and she has many times before had a lot of success by simply backing me up and using me as the "first to fall" when I return the favor by backing a bad idea for her when she is a wolf.

but live hell do I need to go through and spell out my beliefs for every person. If any of those three people are wolves, they know exactly what my current suspicion of them is. and they know that if it gets high enough I'm going to come after them for exactly those points. I literally just sacrificed my strategic approach on those three people to make a point. I can do something like this on pretty much every person in this game. But I'm going to stop there because these three are ones I'm willing to lose because 1) someone else just called out sunny on the same thing So now my approach is public. 2) I happen to know LIS very frequently does this and I will either push him on it or I won't, but his approach is not going to change. 3) I'm never going to be able to read Crayola anyway. I am just physically incapable of reading her. So I can give away that strategy upfront because I'm never going to know when to turn on her if I need to turn on her.

But the point being, how I interact with people is I pay a lot of attention to what everyone is saying around me, when I stir up s*** with one person at a time and I see what everyone does in reaction.

you are always welcome to ignore it. No one has to respond except for the person who I am talking directly to. But I like to think that a lot of people will respond. And they do.
 
Animal Midwife said:
It's not just DocE. Go through my whole ISO for this cycle if you have to.

Wrong. She is a chronic lowposter, not an abandoner. Huge difference. One is solved with modkills. The other is solved with pressure. MsP has either rarely or never has an occurrence where she signed up and didn't post at least once.

Per last game, she also swore to be a new active MsP. I want to know why she has broken that promise suddenly.

And?

It's obvious you did not read it beyond a quick skim. Try again.
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You always hate my style. You always have. I'm not putting any thought into it. That's just our interactions at baseline.
 
WildZoo said:
These "objectively bad approaches" have won games because it allows villagers to find each other faster and actually work together. I know you've got an ego the size of the empire state building but no, the way you play isn't the only way to win.
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no. If you won by using that approach it is literally the fault of the wolves for squandering an advantage freely given by the villagers or a situation making it so the wolves never really could win. Analyzing statistics is never going to account for a very lucky seer. Or a game that was just not well balanced. Or some major game action that just severely tipped the scales.

But you give me a stone cold neutral game with no fancy tricks and the most basic of roles? This strategy sharply drops the villagers chance of winning.

Right in my post I say that my approach is not some magic trick to winning the game. It is simply a good approach similar to other good approaches.
 
DocEspana said:
no. If you won by using that approach it is literally the fault of the wolves for squandering an advantage freely given by the villagers or a situation making it so the wolves never really could win. Analyzing statistics is never going to account for a very lucky seer. Or a game that was just not well balanced. Or some major game action that just severely tipped the scales.

But you give me a stone cold neutral game with no fancy tricks and the most basic of roles? This strategy sharply drops the villagers chance of winning.

Right in my post I say that my approach is not some magic trick to winning the game. It is simply a good approach similar to other good approaches.
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You're wrong but that's ok. Wolves can't kill everyone at once. But, I have no problem with agreeing to disagree with you, so feel free to have your final word as I'm sure you will 😉
 
Zenge142 said:
Not unpopular with me. I’d love some insight and fresh eyes looking Samac who I’ve had a difficult time reading. Especially since I don’t agree with her wolf read on AM, and I’m not sure how I feel about her wolf read of April.
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I don't see any problems with samac as of yet
 
WildZoo said:
These "objectively bad approaches" have won games because it allows villagers to find each other faster and actually work together. I know you've got an ego the size of the empire state building but no, the way you play isn't the only way to win.
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I want to clarify something I said earlier, cuz people like to forget the things I said when it's convenient.... My criticism is about doing this day one. It would probably be my criticism day 2 or 3. it starts being very important once you have a lot of data points. We have no data points. There is no benefit in sharing who you are INNATELY suspicious of. Because I know (as a hypothetical wolf for this paragraph) that nobody knows ANYTHING except for who they are and the wolves (presumably) know each other. The game has just began and there is no usable data except for whatever a seer might have come up with. The fact that I know I'm a villager and no one is trying to push the vote somewhere else means that whoever is the seer didn't find a wolf. So I as a (hypothetical) Wolf would absolutely love if all the villagers could just tell me who they are innately suspicious of. Since I know no one has workable data on who the wolves are. They literally don't know who anyone is except for themselves. Please. Give me an idea as to who I can pick against each other and give me an idea as to which wolves need to lay low because they are innately suspicious.

it is literally an objectively bad idea to do it and everyone is tripping over themselves to be the first one to give the most extensive opinions possible, and then giving the few people who don't want to do it a hard time. And giving me a hard time because I'm pushing people to say things besides a list of information that I don't want them saying anyway. I'm pushing them to say stuff that they may actually regret in later rounds. I'm pushing them to take a position on someone who will pop villager. And I'm forcing them to vocalize why they're doing it.

it wouldn't work if you were all doing it. It wouldn't work if more than two people were doing it. But only one person is doing it. and the more I explain it the less useful it becomes. And you've all forced me to explain it A LOT. So I think that it has mostly run its course.
 
Animal Midwife said:
This wasn't even about your posts. I was just saying I talked to way more people than just you this cycle.
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Oh I know. I only was really responding to the very first sentence. I sort of meant to reply to you at some point that you were giving me a lot of shade but that I didn't find it particularly unusual. I just didn't get around to it until I saw that post.
 
DocEspana said:
It's not like I'm NOT paying attention to the fact that sunnyFL (or whatever the name is) backing me makes no sense and still hasn't explained it to anyone. To the point where others have said I'm a bizarre person for her to back.
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JFC for the 1528926th time.

First of all I’m not backing you.

second of all no one has even said I am.

I have simply not come rushing in to aid shorty when you say you disagree with her play style, because I have for infinity and we always fight about it.

everyone is saying I should have stuck up for her. Not that I’m backing you.

so for someone who claims to stick exactly to facts and yells at people for improper summaries, you sure are doing the latter surrounding the controversy of me not defending shorty.
 
SARdoghandler said:
I feel like this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I'm feeling wolfy vibes from Samac's tone thus far. That said, it's entirely based on pre-yesterday's poof (by me) and content over the past 3-4 hours or so.
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I absolutely think you should be calling me sketchy. It’s exactly why I’m skeeved out by April and AM village reading me. I have an overall sketchy tone when I’m village because I like to mechanic solve. I’ve spent half the day tinfoiling about your stupid teapot. The fact that AM has only gently told me maybe I should stop roll hunting because it may help the wolves surprised the **** out of me because she’s usually getting annoyed with me and calling me sketchy. It could be because she’s wolfed with me and knows my wolf play well now but it just felt weird.

Zenge142 said:
Not unpopular with me. I’d love some insight and fresh eyes looking Samac who I’ve had a difficult time reading. Especially since I don’t agree with her wolf read on AM, and I’m not sure how I feel about her wolf read of April.
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see above on my thoughts on AM. To be fair I don’t think they’re likely both wolves, but I bet one of them is.
 
sunshinefl said:
JFC for the 1528926th time.

First of all I’m not backing you.

second of all no one has even said I am.

I have simply not come rushing in to aid shorty when you say you disagree with her play style, because I have for infinity and we always fight about it.

everyone is saying I should have stuck up for her. Not that I’m backing you.

so for someone who claims to stick exactly to facts and yells at people for improper summaries, you sure are doing the latter surrounding the controversy of me not defending shorty.
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Girl (I'm assuming). Chill. You're getting very bothered by what was meant to be a neutral statement. you freaking out like this is way more concerning than anything I was talking about in my post. I struck a nerve and wasn't even trying to. I was just picking three people who I felt like I could "out" my argument against them to show that I have been paying attention to every single person and formulating arguments for and against every single person. I only picked you because someone else made that point first and I said to myself "well I can say this publicly then".

Everyone has a similar argument against them. But I'm keeping 20-sometging of them to myself for now. I didn't miss a single person in this game. It's weird that you freaked out and missed that point.
 
DocEspana said:
Girl (I'm assuming). Chill. You're getting very bothered by what was meant to be a neutral statement. you freaking out like this is way more concerning than anything I was talking about in my post. I struck a nerve and wasn't even trying to. I was just picking three people who I felt like I could "out" my argument against them to show that I have been paying attention to every single person and formulating arguments for and against every single person. I only picked you because someone else made that point first and I said to myself "well I can say this publicly then".

Everyone has a similar argument against them. But I'm keeping 20-sometging of them to myself for now. I didn't miss a single person in this game. It's weird that you freaked out and missed that point.
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I’m getting frustrated because the fact I’m even being dragged into the stupid Doc E vs Shorty controversy is that because some people decided it was my duty to crusade for shorty against an idea that I agree with.

you can feel free to decide what meaning things have since that’s the game, but don’t wrongly say that I’m backing you.
 
Day One - Green and Pleasant Land - Vote Tally

Capri () -
AM (2) - Ms P, alissa
Stagg (0) -
Sporty (0) -
Cray (0) -
Alissa (1) - finn
Zenge (3) - genny, sunshine, cray
DocE (6) - April, Dina, zenge, alleycat, Shorty, mkg
April (1) - Dubz
Shorty (1) - stagg
Ms P (2) - bobloblaw, AM
sunshine (3) - LIS, VMH, Barks
MKG (1) - DocE

@DocEspana you are in the lead
20/28 players voting
Voting closes in 3.5 hours

Don't expect frequent tallies from me this evening until further notice, because I'm unfortunately still dealing with this personal thing
 
PippyPony said:
Day One - Green and Pleasant Land - Vote Tally

Capri () -
AM (2) - Ms P, alissa
Stagg (0) -
Sporty (0) -
Cray (0) -
Alissa (1) - finn
Zenge (3) - genny, sunshine, cray
DocE (6) - April, Dina, zenge, alleycat, Shorty, mkg
April (1) - Dubz
Shorty (1) - stagg
Ms P (2) - bobloblaw, AM
sunshine (3) - LIS, VMH, Barks
MKG (1) - DocE

@DocEspana you are in the lead
20/28 players voting
Voting closes in 3.5 hours

Don't expect frequent tallies from me this evening until further notice, because I'm unfortunately still dealing with this personal thing
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Wait is deadline 9 or 10?
 
sunshinefl said:
I’m getting frustrated because the fact I’m even being dragged into the stupid Doc E vs Shorty controversy is that because some people decided it was my duty to crusade for shorty against an idea that I agree with.

you can feel free to decide what meaning things have since that’s the game, but don’t wrongly say that I’m backing you.
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Fair point.
 
DocEspana said:
I want to clarify something I said earlier, cuz people like to forget the things I said when it's convenient.... My criticism is about doing this day one. It would probably be my criticism day 2 or 3. it starts being very important once you have a lot of data points. We have no data points. There is no benefit in sharing who you are INNATELY suspicious of. Because I know (as a hypothetical wolf for this paragraph) that nobody knows ANYTHING except for who they are and the wolves (presumably) know each other. The game has just began and there is no usable data except for whatever a seer might have come up with. The fact that I know I'm a villager and no one is trying to push the vote somewhere else means that whoever is the seer didn't find a wolf. So I as a (hypothetical) Wolf would absolutely love if all the villagers could just tell me who they are innately suspicious of. Since I know no one has workable data on who the wolves are. They literally don't know who anyone is except for themselves. Please. Give me an idea as to who I can pick against each other and give me an idea as to which wolves need to lay low because they are innately suspicious.

it is literally an objectively bad idea to do it and everyone is tripping over themselves to be the first one to give the most extensive opinions possible, and then giving the few people who don't want to do it a hard time. And giving me a hard time because I'm pushing people to say things besides a list of information that I don't want them saying anyway. I'm pushing them to say stuff that they may actually regret in later rounds. I'm pushing them to take a position on someone who will pop villager. And I'm forcing them to vocalize why they're doing it.

it wouldn't work if you were all doing it. It wouldn't work if more than two people were doing it. But only one person is doing it. and the more I explain it the less useful it becomes. And you've all forced me to explain it A LOT. So I think that it has mostly run its course.
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Hmmm. Do I respond to this since it was in response to the post I made before I said agree to disagree, or do I not waste my metaphorical breath...

Eh, I'll go with the latter. Not worth it :laugh:
 
sunshinefl said:
JFC for the 1528926th time.

First of all I’m not backing you.

second of all no one has even said I am.

I have simply not come rushing in to aid shorty when you say you disagree with her play style, because I have for infinity and we always fight about it.

everyone is saying I should have stuck up for her. Not that I’m backing you.

so for someone who claims to stick exactly to facts and yells at people for improper summaries, you sure are doing the latter surrounding the controversy of me not defending shorty.
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I actually exactly said that you were buddying DocE
 
TelemarketingEnigma said:
okay now that i've gotten some salt out of my system, I'm going to try to leave AM alone and actually go back more closely through the posts i've missed since last night. sorry in advance for the long wall

there's a ton of shorty vs. DocE vs. cray stuff dominating the thread. I'm not sure I can add anything that hasn't been thoroughly beaten to death already, this feels like it's at a stall point where not many of us are likely to change our opinions. I don't like DocE's approach but I also think a smart wolf would've tried to save a little face at some point to like, maybe not die, even if there is a lot of ego on the line. I think the wagon on DocE is probably village led though, even if there's a wolf or two on it I think there's valid village frustration driving it

Hard to read cray while she's talking in DW pics. One thing I've noticed in my limited experience of post restrictions is that it can serve as a very brief advantage, to keep someone alive another day in order to find out what the heck is going on the next day. once cray can talk i expect there will be plenty of scrutiny.

Shorty felt off to me early game (agree with stagg that it felt like there was some testing of shade) but the long reads post feels a bit more village shorty to me (I've only skimmed that though, need to review it in more detail). Zenge is feeling village-ier as he contributes more.

Lots of talk about the utility of read lists, I'm gonna leave that alone

Sunshine felt off until someone got around to trying to yeet her and then the villager-under-pressure sunshine I'm used to seems to be coming out more. Not 100% sold yet either way though

idk the deal on the teapot but i find it entertaining

i appreciate dubz finding vetmedhead's questioning of me sus, but at the same time I don't know if I am as bothered by it

lots of people i just need to see WAY more from
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supershorty said:
I think sunny is kind of conveniently glossing over some things, but that whole exchange with Dubz actually gave me more villagey vibes on sun because it's pretty typical tonally from what I've seen from her in previous games where she was village.
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I have to agree with you all on sunshine. I remember in ggoats her getting extremely frustrated as I tried to manufacture sus on her. I’m not sure if she does it as a wolf though.
 
sunshinefl said:
Backing doesn’t equal buddying but oki doki. You’re erecting a straw man and then “proving it wrong”.
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My point was never about defending or not defending shorty, wouldn't have mattered to me who he was directing his posts towards. It was about your behavior towards DocE.
 
Animal Midwife said:
I also want to remind everyone that the Elizabeth Tower wakes up soon.
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His name is and will forever be Big Ben

Animal Midwife said:
@Ms Procrastinator What happened to the increased activity I saw last game?
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I was less busy?

TelemarketingEnigma said:
there were some kind of royalty shenanigans involved, as by my count the final vote was
SAR - 9
DocE - 7
MsP - 3
samac - 3
Capri - 1

I'm curious to see how it pans out, but i don't think we have enough info to dig into exactly how it happened
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Am I the only one with a theory as to why this happened

PippyPony said:
giphy.gif


REIN IN please god
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Hear me out, in keeping with the theme, Reign

This was in my drafts since yesterday, but I figured I'd still post it
 
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