England - Game Thread

[vetmedhead]

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maybe this helps you since you didn’t follow.

But until then you can keep your little judgements to yourself.

There is absolutely zero need to be this rude

 

[sunshinefl]

There is absolutely zero need to be this rude

How am *I* being rude? You guys are attacking me for not crusading against something I agree with. *You* are the one being rude. This is so laughable to me that you would say that while pointing fingers at me and telling me I’m a **** person for not white knighting for shorty.

 

[sunshinefl]

There is absolutely zero need to be this rude

And the post you quoted about “maybe this helps since you didn’t follow” is me responding to you gaslighting me that I didn’t already address it.

 

[finnickthedog]

I'm just going to say, not directly related to gameplay... a lot of people have been rude at various points during this game (and others). Myself included. Some of you are kinda selective about who you call out on it though.

 

[WildZoo]

Well you know what? When literally every single person on the roster but me does some magic thing to stop him, then you can be disappointed in me. But until then you can keep your little moral judgements to yourself.

Other people on the roster who have spoken out against ad hominem attacks previously have done the same here, that I've seen.

But I can see you're entering the headspace where discussion with you is no longer productive and just leads to you doing the same kind of personal attacks you say you're against so not interested in engaging further

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I don't understand this part. Is this implying that people know who's in their class? Because otherwise how would there be trends within classes that look like wolfpack trends?

It sounds like you are asking if people know who is in their class. If you don't know then that could mean.....

Please tell me what you meant b/c you haven't seemed wolfy up to this point.

 

[alissa14]

Pay attention to who I'm talking to. I'll mention them when it cohesive and finished.

who TME? you're currently voting MsP

I don't know. But the more votes on the board early, the better. Allows for strongest defenses and prevents massive blind waffles.

Ok but you know MsP may not come back in enough time to defend herself so why are you still voting there. Your actions say otherwise if you think voting someone puts pressure on them to make them come up with a defense

Enigma, I asked for your reads. Please stop stalling.

what about your reads AM? I asked for those earlier remember?

 

[sunshinefl]

Other people on the roster who have spoken out against ad hominem attacks previously have done the same here, that I've seen.

But I can see you're entering the headspace where discussion with you is no longer productive and just leads to you doing the same kind of personal attacks you say you're against so not interested in engaging further

THE SAME PERSONAL ATTACKS THAT YOU ARE DOING TO ME???

 

[PippyPony]

Day One - Green and Pleasant Land - Vote Tally

Capri () -
AM (1) - Ms P
Stagg (0) -
Sporty (0) -
Cray (0) -
Alissa (1) - finn
Zenge (3) - genny, sunshine, cray
DocE (6) - April, Dina, zenge, alleycat, Shorty, mkg
April (1) - Dubz
Shorty (1) - stagg
Ms P (2) - bobloblaw, AM
sunshine (3) - LIS, VMH, Barks
MKG (1) - DocE

@DocEspana you are in the lead
19/28 players voting
Voting closes in 4.5 hours

Don't expect frequent tallies from me this evening until further notice, because I'm unfortunately still dealing with this personal thing

 

[sunshinefl]

Other people on the roster who have spoken out against ad hominem attacks previously have done the same here, that I've seen.

But I can see you're entering the headspace where discussion with you is no longer productive and just leads to you doing the same kind of personal attacks you say you're against so not interested in engaging further

Show me any personal attack I have done.

 

[alissa14]

I don't think I'm gonna vote sunny. She seems frustrated villager.

 

[alissa14]

yeet AM

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

okay now that i've gotten some salt out of my system, I'm going to try to leave AM alone and actually go back more closely through the posts i've missed since last night. sorry in advance for the long wall

there's a ton of shorty vs. DocE vs. cray stuff dominating the thread. I'm not sure I can add anything that hasn't been thoroughly beaten to death already, this feels like it's at a stall point where not many of us are likely to change our opinions. I don't like DocE's approach but I also think a smart wolf would've tried to save a little face at some point to like, maybe not die, even if there is a lot of ego on the line. I think the wagon on DocE is probably village led though, even if there's a wolf or two on it I think there's valid village frustration driving it

Hard to read cray while she's talking in DW pics. One thing I've noticed in my limited experience of post restrictions is that it can serve as a very brief advantage, to keep someone alive another day in order to find out what the heck is going on the next day. once cray can talk i expect there will be plenty of scrutiny.

Shorty felt off to me early game (agree with stagg that it felt like there was some testing of shade) but the long reads post feels a bit more village shorty to me (I've only skimmed that though, need to review it in more detail). Zenge is feeling village-ier as he contributes more.

Lots of talk about the utility of read lists, I'm gonna leave that alone

Sunshine felt off until someone got around to trying to yeet her and then the villager-under-pressure sunshine I'm used to seems to be coming out more. Not 100% sold yet either way though

idk the deal on the teapot but i find it entertaining

i appreciate dubz finding vetmedhead's questioning of me sus, but at the same time I don't know if I am as bothered by it

lots of people i just need to see WAY more from

 

[Animal Midwife]

who TME? you're currently voting MsP

Indeed, I am. But I've been talking to more than just Enigma today.

Ok but you know MsP may not come back in enough time to defend herself so why are you still voting there. Your actions say otherwise if you think voting someone puts pressure on them to make them come up with a defense

#1 She only has two votes.
#2 She's had several hours to defend and still has hours to defend as of now.

Is there a reason me sitting on MsP bothers you?

what about your reads AM? I asked for those earlier remember?

Why yes, alissa. And I already said I'd give them when they solidified.

 

[Animal Midwife]

yeet AM

So were you lying about your sunshine read?

 

[Animal Midwife]

I don't think I'm gonna vote sunny. She seems frustrated villager.

How so?

 

[supershorty]

I think sunny is kind of conveniently glossing over some things, but that whole exchange with Dubz actually gave me more villagey vibes on sun because it's pretty typical tonally from what I've seen from her in previous games where she was village.

 

[alissa14]

Indeed, I am. But I've been talking to more than just Enigma today.

#1 She only has two votes.
#2 She's had several hours to defend and still has hours to defend as of now.

Is there a reason me sitting on MsP bothers you?

Why yes, alissa. And I already said I'd give them when they solidified.

why are you pushing TME for reads when you yourself don't any

 

[supershorty]

It sounds like you are asking if people know who is in their class. If you don't know then that could mean.....

Please tell me what you meant b/c you haven't seemed wolfy up to this point.

Can you elaborate on why you think someone not knowing who else is in their class would be wolfy?

 

[alissa14]

How so?

did you just miss all of her upset/angry posts? they don't seem manufactured as a wolf and seem genuine

 

[WildZoo]

why are you pushing TME for reads when you yourself don't any

Is this unusual for village AM?

 

[alissa14]

Is this unusual for village AM?

I'm just surprised that at this point in the game she has yet to come out with anything as to what she's thinking. only that she's "Forming her reads" and with 25 pages of thread i expect more from her

 

[Animal Midwife]

why are you pushing TME for reads when you yourself don't any

I do have reads. I just haven't posted a list yet. Why are you ignoring all the people I've been interacting with today? And why did you avoid choose to avoid answering the question in that post?

 

[Animal Midwife]

did you just miss all of her upset/angry posts? they don't seem manufactured as a wolf and seem genuine

She's been talking about vet deference since her first wolf game. It's meaningless to me at this point.

 

[alissa14]

I do have reads. I just haven't posted a list yet. Why are you ignoring all the people I've been interacting with today? And why did you avoid choose to avoid answering the question in that post?

Oh i just forgot to answer it. You sitting on MsP bugs me because you love to claim that you're doing the most for village. However, sitting on MsP who hasn't been here for several hours does nothing to help village

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Can you elaborate on why you think someone not knowing who else is in their class would be wolfy?

Barkley seemed to be asking if people knew who others were in their class. If she has to ask, then to me, that says she is not part of a class or she would know the answer. Correct?

It is like asking "Do villagers get frequent PM's from the mod?". That would tell me that the person asking doesn't know the answer, which means they are not a villager. Hope that makes sense.

I left room to explain for Barkley in case I misread her suggestion. But I couldn't read that and not ask.

 

[supershorty]

Barkley seemed to be asking if people knew who others were in their class. If she has to ask, then to me, that says she is not part of a class or she would know the answer. Correct?

It is like asking "Do villagers get frequent PM's from the mod?". That would tell me that the person asking doesn't know the answer, which means they are not a villager. Hope that makes sense.

I left room to explain for Barkley in case I misread her suggestion. But I couldn't read that and not ask.

I read it as she was asking TME if that's what she (TME) thought.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Oh i just forgot to answer it. You sitting on MsP bugs me because you love to claim that you're doing the most for village. However, sitting on MsP who hasn't been here for several hours does nothing to help village

Oh really? What's do you strongly believe MsP's affiliation is then? Let's save time and just say what she is so I don't have to pressure here any longer.

 

[WildZoo]

Barkley seemed to be asking if people knew who others were in their class. If she has to ask, then to me, that says she is not part of a class or she would know the answer. Correct?

It is like asking "Do villagers get frequent PM's from the mod?". That would tell me that the person asking doesn't know the answer, which means they are not a villager. Hope that makes sense.

I left room to explain for Barkley in case I misread her suggestion. But I couldn't read that and not ask.

Are you implying that wolves wouldn't also have classes? Because I doubt that is the case.

 

[alissa14]

Oh really? What's do you strongly believe MsP's affiliation is then? Let's save time and just say what she is so I don't have to pressure here any longer.

I have no idea what MsP is. It has already been discussed MsP being absent is NAI and you don't seem to have any reason to vote for her other than her lack of participation

 

[Animal Midwife]

I have no idea what MsP is. It has already been discussed MsP being absent is NAI and you don't seem to have any reason to vote for her other than her lack of participation

alissa, I'm the one that taught you about MsP's meta. You're not telling me anything I don't know.

Now explain to me why it bothers you that I'm pushing an unknown who knows the game is ongoing, has checked in this cycle, and is still sitting on a joke vote?

 

[alissa14]

alissa, I'm the one that taught you about MsP's meta. You're not telling me anything I don't know.

Now explain to me why it bothers you that I'm pushing an unknown who knows the game is ongoing, has checked in this cycle, and is still sitting on a joke vote?

It’s that we both know pushing her is useless. That’s what bothers me

 

[Animal Midwife]

It’s that we both know pushing her is useless. That’s what bothers me

Useless how? You're being very protective of her.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Are you implying that wolves wouldn't also have classes? Because I doubt that is the case.

No. I stated that if a person has to ask about a group, it would suggest that they are not part of the group.

 

[WildZoo]

No. I stated that if a person has to ask about a group, it would suggest that they are not part of the group.

Ok, but you seemed to be shading barks for it, so unless you think wolves are not part of a group then why does that matter?

 

[alissa14]

Useless how? You're being very protective of her.

I’m not trying to be. How could I have outside knowledge of her? We’re not even in the same group. But I’m also not gunning for her like you always are. I just think it’s counter productive. What bothers me more is I don’t have your reads and I would very much like them

 

[Animal Midwife]

I’m not trying to be. How could I have outside knowledge of her? We’re not even in the same group. But I’m also not gunning for her like you always are. I just think it’s counter productive. What bothers me more is I don’t have your reads and I would very much like them

Not trying to be? That's why you're voting me because I'm voting for her while pressuring others? Remember last game when you freaked out because I wasn't trying to push MsP off a cliff? Weird that suddenly it's an issue for you this game.

And for the reads, I've already told you multiple times that you're ignoring the multiple discussions I'm having with people that would easily give insight to my thought process.

 

[sunshinefl]

She's been talking about vet deference since her first wolf game. It's meaningless to me at this point.

Lol everyone else is talking **** to me for not yelling at Doc E d/t my “vet deference history” (even though that’s not happening, and he’s leading the vote currently) but you’re simultaneously saying my frustration with those people is to be dismissed d/t “vet deference history”.

how am I simultaneously sus and not sus for the same thing which is simultaneously happening and not happening? Just lol

 

[Barkley13]

It sounds like you are asking if people know who is in their class. If you don't know then that could mean.....

Please tell me what you meant b/c you haven't seemed wolfy up to this point.

I’m confused about what the question is? Or what you’re implying?

Zenge is feeling village-ier as he contributes more.

What contributions have felt more village? It’s seemed like it’s mostly been basic questions

Barkley seemed to be asking if people knew who others were in their class. If she has to ask, then to me, that says she is not part of a class or she would know the answer. Correct?

It is like asking "Do villagers get frequent PM's from the mod?". That would tell me that the person asking doesn't know the answer, which means they are not a villager. Hope that makes sense.

I left room to explain for Barkley in case I misread her suggestion. But I couldn't read that and not ask.

Yeah no I’m still confused. I was asking TE about her theorizing and if that’s what she was trying to imply

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Ok, but you seemed to be shading barks for it, so unless you think wolves are not part of a group then why does that matter?

If you look at the quote it references wolfpack trends. Then it mentions people's trends if they have class roles. Which would mean their line of thought was along the lines of wondering if villagers had roles. But it doesn't matter at this point. I am trying to decide who is in village and who is in wolfpack. I think it is best to share questions unless it is meant to mislead. That is up for you to decide if that is what I am doing.

 

[Animal Midwife]

okay now that i've gotten some salt out of my system, I'm going to try to leave AM alone and actually go back more closely through the posts i've missed since last night. sorry in advance for the long wall

there's a ton of shorty vs. DocE vs. cray stuff dominating the thread. I'm not sure I can add anything that hasn't been thoroughly beaten to death already, this feels like it's at a stall point where not many of us are likely to change our opinions. I don't like DocE's approach but I also think a smart wolf would've tried to save a little face at some point to like, maybe not die, even if there is a lot of ego on the line. I think the wagon on DocE is probably village led though, even if there's a wolf or two on it I think there's valid village frustration driving it

Hard to read cray while she's talking in DW pics. One thing I've noticed in my limited experience of post restrictions is that it can serve as a very brief advantage, to keep someone alive another day in order to find out what the heck is going on the next day. once cray can talk i expect there will be plenty of scrutiny.

Shorty felt off to me early game (agree with stagg that it felt like there was some testing of shade) but the long reads post feels a bit more village shorty to me (I've only skimmed that though, need to review it in more detail). Zenge is feeling village-ier as he contributes more.

Lots of talk about the utility of read lists, I'm gonna leave that alone

Sunshine felt off until someone got around to trying to yeet her and then the villager-under-pressure sunshine I'm used to seems to be coming out more. Not 100% sold yet either way though

idk the deal on the teapot but i find it entertaining

i appreciate dubz finding vetmedhead's questioning of me sus, but at the same time I don't know if I am as bothered by it

lots of people i just need to see WAY more from

Could you give overall (most likely) leans on all these people?

 

[WildZoo]

If you look at the quote it references wolfpack trends. Then it mentions people's trends if they have class roles. Which would mean their line of thought was along the lines of wondering if villagers had roles. But it doesn't matter at this point. I am trying to decide who is in village and who is in wolfpack. I think it is best to share questions unless it is meant to mislead. That is up for you to decide if that is what I am doing.

But TME was actually the one who brought that up, and barks was asking about her thought process. Your post implied that you thought barks asking about this meant that barks might not be part of a class. Please let me if I interpreted that wrong, but it seems to be what you were talking about since that is what you bolded. I don't see where barks's post implied she was wondering if villagers have class roles, she simply asked if TME thought that people knew who everyone else in their class is.

 

[SARdoghandler]

Ah, I see that we have as usual devolved into some fun-police territory. Well that's going to make this catch up less enjoyable

Can we all go back to arguing about teapots? (I have a reward out for the return of one, no questions asked if it just shows up on my doorstep overnight)

 

[Barkley13]

If you look at the quote it references wolfpack trends. Then it mentions people's trends if they have class roles. Which would mean their line of thought was along the lines of wondering if villagers had roles. But it doesn't matter at this point. I am trying to decide who is in village and who is in wolfpack. I think it is best to share questions unless it is meant to mislead. That is up for you to decide if that is what I am doing.

It was asking she thought people within classes knew each other like wolves know each other because otherwise how would there be trends within their play

 

[DocEspana]

If I'm being perfectly honest, I don't think your play is inherently wolfy for you. But it's not inherently village either. It's certainly not pro-village regardless of your actual affiliation. Maybe it is to your village agenda, if that's what you are, but the village encompasses a majority of the roster, not just you. What it really boils down to is we're all here to play a game for fun

[/QUOTE]
And that's just the thing. I'm not here for fun. I'm here to win. No part about it being this hard on people and being this picky about the stances and phrases I use is fun. But it does (on a statistics level) win games.

t irks me when someone wants to turn the thread into a boxing match that makes it not fun. Especially when the match involves only a fraction of the roster and distracts from other discussion, which is also anti-village.

Oh cut it out with the garbage. this is definitely pro villager. That you want some tranquil game of everyone playing nice is irrelevant to the fact that what I do works. Its not like it's some magic bullet that wins games for villagers automatically. It can go wrong. Just like many other "good" approaches. But it does work. So stop with the nonsense saying it doesn't. You're allowed to say you have never seen it before, but the reason the veterans are putting up with me is because they know it's as good as many other strategies. But there are objectively bad approaches (lets all share our thoughts in early rounds) and a few of you are pushing for that and it is coocoo for coco puffs that these people aren't being roundly chastised.

I don't really care if your play style is to keep stuff to yourself or to go after people who sus you. I'm not going to criticize people for what works for them.

[/QUOTE]
Just to be very clear to everyone reading along, that is not my strategy, that has never been my strategy, and currently she is completely making up this argument and putting words in my mouth.why? Because it's much more convenient than actually summarizing what I said. and again, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that she is just really bad at reading. to be honest, I have made reading mistakes before assuming that I got someone's point and then when I looked at what they wrote I realized that I totally misunderstood it. but this is a terrible summary of what I said I was doing and why I said I'm not going to share an open list of who my suspects are on day one.

that's what you're doing to others, though maybe you don't see it that way. I AM going to criticize people for making the game not fun for others just because that's how you like to play the game. It's very apparent that there are some people who aren't finding this enjoyable in the least. It's a leisure game first. Competition second.

[/QUOTE]
We inherently disagree on basically every single point you just made above. I get where you're coming from. But that is not at all where I'm coming from. And you are playing the game poorly if someone making you uncomfortable with their completely valid approach to the game is making you want to vote them out. this game is about numbers. Removing a number that you honestly believe is not acting wolfy (and I do believe your vote has still stood, unless I missed a post recently) because you don't like the way they play the game is complete insanity. This is a game of statistics and lying. The stats don't lie, the players do. I'm always going to play the statistically best move. sometimes there are many moves that are of roughly equal statistical likelihood to work. you are literally picking a move that you admit yourself is statistically likely to fail. And you're saying that you will do it happily because you don't like their approach.

Tough ta-tas.

And there will be people that disagree with me. That's okay. I'm not going to call them names for it and ruin their enjoyment unless I'm reciprocating what they're saying to me. I would much rather stir up conversation by discussing with people rather than shooting them down.

I have stirred up conversation with almost everyone in this game. Who here has gotten more people to come out and talk? To put their thoughts on the record. to say something and weigh in on something that will become very relevant later on in the game?

To quote colonel Jessep from a few good men:
"You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that [my style], while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives."

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

What contributions have felt more village? It’s seemed like it’s mostly been basic questions

I don't feel great about him, but up through most of yesterday he either said a lot of nothing or defended shorty/engaged with DocE (which didn't feel very village). Late last night and today he seemed to shift to actually talking about other people.

 

[WildZoo]

But there are objectively bad approaches (lets all share our thoughts in early rounds) and a few of you are pushing for that and it is coocoo for coco puffs that these people aren't being roundly chastised.

These "objectively bad approaches" have won games because it allows villagers to find each other faster and actually work together. I know you've got an ego the size of the empire state building but no, the way you play isn't the only way to win.

 

[capri1722]

Oh i just forgot to answer it. You sitting on MsP bugs me because you love to claim that you're doing the most for village. However, sitting on MsP who hasn't been here for several hours does nothing to help village

I...disagree. At least in AM's case.

Barkley seemed to be asking if people knew who others were in their class. If she has to ask, then to me, that says she is not part of a class or she would know the answer. Correct?

It is like asking "Do villagers get frequent PM's from the mod?". That would tell me that the person asking doesn't know the answer, which means they are not a villager. Hope that makes sense.

I left room to explain for Barkley in case I misread her suggestion. But I couldn't read that and not ask.

Are you possibly mistaking affiliation (wolf, village, third party) for class (royal, not royal)?
Also, it can be beneficial to ask questions you already know the answers to.

 

[SARdoghandler]

I feel like this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I'm feeling wolfy vibes from Samac's tone thus far. That said, it's entirely based on pre-yesterday's poof (by me) and content over the past 3-4 hours or so.

 

[alissa14]

Don't you think only talking about one person can be limiting though? Surely, you've noticed other surrounding interactions that seem curious.

noting interaction with DocE. I think your points to him were fair.

I don't have reason to believe anyone is restricted from speaking other than Cray at the moment. Stagg is a chronic abandoner as of late and many of the rest have checked-in but not said a bunch or are still withholding their votes (which is making things look a little emptier pressure/tally-wise).

And so is MsP but I don’t see you yeeting stagg for it

samac is slight village for me. I have no read on MsP.

*her very next post* vvvvvvvvv

Unyeet capri
Yeet MsP

and I did just ISO your post and it actually gave me no insight. So as you like to say. Reads please