England - Game Thread

[Barkley13]

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I'm really surprised @Animal Midwife isn't giving @samac any grief about how the best wolf hunting is done by posts on thread, not mechanics or outting what you've learned by PM.

Unless AM is just loving this play from samac.

Wasn't AM against the theory early on? like right when samac came out with it

 

[Stagg737]

Through page 78 and going to

Execute Finn

though the Sunny flip would also be helpful.

 

[Crayola227]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but mkg was found through traditional wolf hunting methods and not attempted villager code BS (remember how you fell for her role claim samac? Maybe it's time you believed us and did something that works samac), right?

Feels really weird I have to be the one to point this out.

 

[WildZoo]

I don't agree, because you're still looking for the formatting to be off in order to determine that it's fake. You're comparing formats.

If it was my game and someone was trying that (which tbh I'm not even convinced samac actually was) I would punish it.

Weren't you a co-mod on Michigan? We punished them for villager code for thinking "you are a villager" was a fake line. How is "I think a missing location means it's a fake role" any different?

Because again, there is no reason to think that wolves would be the only ones not to have a real location. It's not information from village PMs that wouldn't be present in wolf PMs or vice versa (like in the past when someone having their name in the role description might have been a hint at it being from a wolf PM...not as relevant now with copy/paste being disallowed). It could be wrong for sure, there very well could be a role in the game without a real location, but I put this more in line with evaluating the believability of the role claim than trying to use village code.

I don't remember the exact circumstances of Michigan at all so I really can't comment there.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I'm really surprised @Animal Midwife isn't giving @samac any grief about how the best wolf hunting is done by posts on thread, not mechanics or outting what you've learned by PM.

Unless AM is just loving this play from samac.

I mean, I already talked to samac about this cycles ago. I don't have reason to think she's wolfy and she has seemed to have moved past the auto-draining of the entire North group. finn has been in my POE, so I'm not super sad about some pressure there.

I also don't see what she's outted as being inherently harmful. alissa is dead, she didn't mention any remaining royals identities, and no one would have had any way of knowing she was attacked.

My point is that in the case where wolves can lie about it, it wouldn't work as village code but it wouldn't stop a villager from trying to use it and getting led astray.

Seems like that kind of thing usually matters to you.

That's not village code then and I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Crayola227]

Since samac commented already, my comment was it's not really village code if you're looking for a fake role. No reason to believe wolves wouldn't have real locations in their roles as well, but a wolf might forget to include one when coming up with a cover. It's only village code if you're looking for something you believe to be in village PMs that wouldn't be in wolf ones.

Lol and do you think that's gonna happen now (forgetting to put a location in their claim?)

This is one of those cases that going on and on about a potential tell has probably ruined that tell.

It was a legit thought for maybe like 20 pages, not like 50.

 

[WildZoo]

Lol and do you think that's gonna happen now (forgetting to put a location in their claim?)

This is one of those cases that going on and on about a potential tell has probably ruined that tell.

It was a legit thought for maybe like 20 pages, not like 50.

That specific part was only just brought up so I don't know what you're talking about here. I don't remember fictional vs real locations being mentioned before.

 

[Crayola227]

If you wanted info on Sunny/Mkg, what was up with the waffling near vote close yesterday instead of going straight to MKG?



Same as they were before, that it would have been a dumb wolf move and was almost certainly non-wolf. I feel the same now with Cray's explanation. I'm not convinced she's village, but I'd be surprised if she was a wolf.

I don't understand the question.

I thought Zenge might provide info on Sunny or mkg, but I wasn't looking to flip them because I personally wasn't wolf reading them. Not sure this answers your question.

 

[finnickthedog]

Through page 78 and going to

Execute Finn

though the Sunny flip would also be helpful.

This is bad and you should feel bad. I have ability claimed. Why are you rushing to put a vote in before you get caught up? Do you think the vote is going somewhere? Or are you just not planning to catch up?

Because again, there is no reason to think that wolves would be the only ones not to have a real location. It's not information from village PMs that wouldn't be present in wolf PMs or vice versa (like in the past when someone having their name in the role description might have been a hint at it being from a wolf PM...not as relevant now with copy/paste being disallowed). It could be wrong for sure, there very well could be a role in the game without a real location, but I put this more in line with evaluating the believability of the role claim than trying to use village code.

I don't remember the exact circumstances of Michigan at all so I really can't comment there.

Like I said, I don't agree. If formatting is what you're using to try and deem that he role was made up... then I think that's villager code and would punish it accordingly.

There are other ways to evaluate the believability of a role claim that are not based on formatting, but this particular example would be formatting and therefore as far as I'm concerned falls under villager code and is equally cheap.

 

[WildZoo]

Through page 78 and going to

Execute Finn

though the Sunny flip would also be helpful.

Hmmm

Beep beep

 

[DocEspana]

Not trying to figure out if it’s formatted exactly like like mine, I just have reason to believe everyone has a real place in their role. I’ve gotten way into looking at maps this game.

can promise you this is wrong.

 

[DocEspana]

can promise you this is wrong.

actually never mind. I just rechecked my role and there is some **** there I never even noticed. also I apparently DO belong in oxford and cambridge (to bring something back to a million days ago).

 

[DocEspana]

actually never mind. I just rechecked my role and there is some **** there I never even noticed. also I apparently DO belong in oxford and cambridge (to bring something back to a million days ago).

and by that same theory there really MIGHT be a sherriff of nottingham in the north then. GOD DAMNIT this just undercuts a bunch of stuff I said days ago and all because I didnt notice (what I thought was) an unimportant stupid thing on my role.

 

[DocEspana]

and by that same theory there really MIGHT be a sherriff of nottingham in the north then. GOD DAMNIT this just undercuts a bunch of stuff I said days ago and all because I didnt notice (what I thought was) an unimportant stupid thing on my role.

and my best guess at who it is would be the person with the really hard to believe role claim who is also in the north and who everyone has been anxious to string up from the start.

unlunch crayola (yay!)
lunch finn (boo!)

 

[WildZoo]

actually never mind. I just rechecked my role and there is some **** there I never even noticed. also I apparently DO belong in oxford and cambridge (to bring something back to a million days ago).

and by that same theory there really MIGHT be a sherriff of nottingham in the north then. GOD DAMNIT this just undercuts a bunch of stuff I said days ago and all because I didnt notice (what I thought was) an unimportant stupid thing on my role.

Cue DocE paranoia

But you had some decent interactions with mkg so I'll let it slide...for now...

 

[DocEspana]

Your role claim strikes me as a bunch of #JaneHotEyre

 

[DocEspana]

Cue DocE paranoia

But you had some decent interactions with mkg so I'll let it slide...for now...

Its being directed in a useful direction

 

[WildZoo]

Its being directed in a useful direction

Oh I meant my paranoia about you. That you happened to not read a relevant portion of your role until now.

 

[samac]

actually never mind. I just rechecked my role and there is some **** there I never even noticed. also I apparently DO belong in oxford and cambridge (to bring something back to a million days ago).

don’t feed the tinfoiler.
I will fully admit though I don’t know why Sar would have been in the north and your comment made me think royals were randomly distributed separate from us commoners.

Spoiler

 

[WildZoo]

AM's interactions with mkg feel pretty good. I'll be quoting them with all the others so don't take my word for it, but idk how long it'll take me to put the whole post together so figured I'd give thoughts as I go.

 

[DocEspana]

Oh I meant my paranoia about you. That you happened to not read a relevant portion of your role until now.

Location seemed like such an unimportant part in that list of facts about my role, especially since it DID say oxford and cambridge, I never even internalized that there was more written on that line. I figured it was just reminding me where I started and not actually noting an element of my character.

 

[finnickthedog]

So let me just make sure I understand the thought process here correctly. Because if I understand this properly y'all don't just think I'm a wolf. You all think I'm specifically a sheriff who steals teapots and puts people in jail something, right?

So your belief is that two cycles ago I decided to start hinting about an ability I don't even have and I chose to claim a fake role that conveniently fits in the North even though at the time of this claim other people had said their roles didn't fit in their location.

That about sum it up?

I know some of you are new to me but plenty of you have either wolfed with me or modded games in which I wolfed. Are you saying this actually sounds like something I would do to you? Or are you just saying your strongest read in this game right now is some tinfoil after I got badgered day one for not having more substantial reads? Or that you somehow think my vote that I only made because samac was suddenly so sure at deadline that mkg was genuine looks worse than the person who clearly avoided voting for mkg after implying she thought either he or Z was a wolf?

Because I mean, if this is the train you're on then I can't say I see much point in sticking around to try and reason with crazy. I'm tired.

 

[WildZoo]

Where the heck is @Ms Procrastinator

 

[capri1722]

I was literally trying to respond to this post when the entire website went down for a day and a half.

I had something sassy and snarky to say, but I forget what it is now.

Confirmed, SDN went down because I didn't want to hear your snark 😉

 

[DocEspana]

Confirmed, SDN went down because I didn't want to hear your snark 😉

jokes on you. Its open again and *overflowing* with snark

 

[SportPonies]

Where the heck is @Ms Procrastinator

I was going to mention her earlier (if I didn’t already?)

the only reason I have her village is because that thing with Bob seemed too out there for a wolf to pull on D1 on whatever that was

 

[WildZoo]

I was going to mention her earlier (if I didn’t already?)

the only reason I have her village is because that thing with Bob seemed too out there for a wolf to pull on D1 on whatever that was

I think it was D3 but I'm not actually sure

 

[samac]

It was Wednesday which I think was day 2 but whatever

 

[samac]

Alright. I’m conflicted.
still pretty confident in my tinfoil but she’s so convincing.
On the other side, MKG fooled me and I don’t know if I’ll ever trust a reveal again. It’s awful convenient that the resurrection will happen after day 4, conveniently today. I can’t help but worry that another wolf has Rez capacity and she’s going to claim it to clear herself and we end up with a rezzed wolf.
maybe that teapot had rezzing capacity. I don’t know. I’m spiraling.

I moved AM out of my POE for voting MKG on day 2. Unless they all planned that for less sus, and she wouldn’t have been happy about it, AM doesnt bus.

all that said I’m also ok with a sunny flip. Zenge susing her is a good idea and I looked back at previous games earlier on and anger is NAI. It also felt weird I mentioned wolves couldn’t kill me and she immediately started to , though cray also did it and I’m leaving cray village at this point.

All that to say I don’t know what to do and I’m conflicted

 

[Crayola227]

Alright. I’m conflicted.
still pretty confident in my tinfoil but she’s so convincing.
On the other side, MKG fooled me and I don’t know if I’ll ever trust a reveal again. It’s awful convenient that the resurrection will happen after day 4, conveniently today. I can’t help but worry that another wolf has Rez capacity and she’s going to claim it to clear herself and we end up with a rezzed wolf.
maybe that teapot had rezzing capacity. I don’t know. I’m spiraling.

I moved AM out of my POE for voting MKG on day 2. Unless they all planned that for less sus, and she wouldn’t have been happy about it, AM doesnt bus.

all that said I’m also ok with a sunny flip. Zenge susing her is a good idea and I looked back at previous games earlier on and anger is NAI. It also felt weird I mentioned wolves couldn’t kill me and she immediately started to , though cray also did it and I’m leaving cray village at this point.

All that to say I don’t know what to do and I’m conflicted

I can't make sense of most of the first paragraph lol.

Even players that don't like bussing will bus if they think that's the best strategy. I think AM is smart enough to consider it, I wouldn't just clear AM based on VCA.

The last paragraph makes sense but not sure what your incomplete point on Sunny is.

 

[PippyPony]

Day 4 - The Black Server Death Descends - Vote Tally

Finn (7) - Mayo, samac, alley, cyndia, genny, stagg, docE
Sunshine (6) - Dubz, barks, dina, LIS, AM, finn
Dubz (0) -
Mayo (1) - cray
Crayola (0)
Samac (1) - sporty

SDN (1) - Ms P

@finnickthedog you are in the lead
15/18 players voting
voting closes in ~2 hours

 

[Dinashadow]

Alright. I’m conflicted.
still pretty confident in my tinfoil but she’s so convincing.
On the other side, MKG fooled me and I don’t know if I’ll ever trust a reveal again. It’s awful convenient that the resurrection will happen after day 4, conveniently today. I can’t help but worry that another wolf has Rez capacity and she’s going to claim it to clear herself and we end up with a rezzed wolf.
maybe that teapot had rezzing capacity. I don’t know. I’m spiraling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was tin foiling about all of this and conversion.

The convenience of the day 4 thing weirded me out too. If the rez role isn't real at all, it would be a strange thing to claim and easy to disprove unless this is a case of Finn just wanting to survive one more night cycle for some reason.

 

[LetItSnow]

C'mon @DocEspana ... we were gonna go in on this together. Remember?

 

[Dinashadow]

Even players that don't like bussing will bus if they think that's the best strategy. I think AM is smart enough to consider it, I wouldn't just clear AM based on VCA.

I agree with samac's interpretation having just wolfed with both of them in ggoats. I can't think of a reason why AM would put an early vote on a wolf partner, it just doesn't fit with her meta

 

[samac]

I can't make sense of most of the first paragraph lol.

Even players that don't like bussing will bus if they think that's the best strategy. I think AM is smart enough to consider it, I wouldn't just clear AM based on VCA.

The last paragraph makes sense but not sure what your incomplete point on Sunny is.

I think AM would just if she had to, but I doubt she’d be an early adopter day 2.

 

[alleycat03]

I said to Pip in my mod Pm if I did a game, i would probably make mayor be an unseerable or normal result for reasons yanno.

I thought straightforward seers were falling out of favor when I last played anyways. Granted, this was a year ago but like... did opinions change on that?

Still hate em but they show up occasionally. There was one in Bioshock but that's because that game was designed 4+ years ago and I didn't feel like changing it much

so uhhhh what is a straightforward seer? Like they see affiliation or role? I’m still pretty confused on what Mkg’s role was too. I’ve never heard of a ninja ladyseer

Unless the entire pack miraculously has no concept of what kills mean, they already know she avoided. This is extremely basic. If they try again, they are fools.

cray already touched on this pretty well, but we had to make multiple attempts on several people during Bioshock. Dina was protected a couple of times, and LIS’ failed kill was very frustrating to us since he was a 3P that was hard to kill. I wouldn’t say that a wolfpack that attempts to kill Samac multiple times are “fools.” Seems pretty harsh, but I do agree that Samac could’ve kept a bit more information to herself and not advertise so loudly that she’s unkillable.

Well what I think is interesting is that there’s another person out there stealing stuff besides the sheriff

So we have a possible HP character, the sheriff, AND April (Robinhood?) all stealing stuff. Dang that’s really suspicious

 

[alleycat03]

DocE wouldn't know this, but others, maybe @Cyndia or @alleycat03 can vouch that when I wolf I'm rarely caught because I sheeped someone and came out of nowhere on a vote.

I gave alley a mini lecture on how easy it is to just sus people openly loudly and early to make switches seemless, and to vote early and not do weird things with your vote.

It's all WIFOM, but this is pretty far outside my wolf meta.

I can confirm this. That's why last game I was openly sus of like every wagon frontrunner early on, and why my last-minute panic bus of Z was not supposed to be *that* suspicious. I do not think Cray is playing within her wolf meta right now.

 

[sunshinefl]

Sure, I’ll stop distracting from the obvious wolf role we know in the game.

I’ll stop that, but the death proof royals is a real question. Why are they dying after seemingly one hit? Is that not something fair to ask.
If they’re deathproof and wolves double tapped them they already know that. If they’re not then they’re shook and confused by this information too. I don’t see how that’s not valuable village information.

Maybe the royals should ask in their mod PM, and not in their PM with you so you can spill even MORE info to the wolves.

I mean as a wolf it makes sense for you to vote bread over mkg, but you didn't even pick either of them. You went for LIS.

Okay exactly. I could have “saved” mkg if I was a wolf who wanted to. So then why are you voting me?

Second this



I've explained why I'm voting for her. I've been wolf reading her since early game, but people said her frustration sounded village. When I spoke with shorty in PMs she said she went back and read the two game's sunny has wolfed in and felt comfortable moving her slightly village, then before she subbed out shorty said she might have to look back at her sunshine read because she wasn't feeling confident that sunny wasn't wolfing.

At this point sunny knows that people read her village when she uses caps lock and gets frustrated. I wouldn't be surprised if she tried to emulate it.

I’m not emulating anything. When I get angry and do all caps I’m actually IRL very angry. It’s NAI actually. Not me trying to get village credit.

Not to mention sunny was the second person zenge was pushing. He was right about mkg, so it only makes sense to me to flip sunny now.

Okay but I have had zero seer results and I welcome it if there is another person with a seer type role.

I’ve also wondered that she did die N1 and that kind of shook Alissa and the other. Because the 2 that claimed this had no contact with each other but made the same claim to me as royals. It feels weird that one died night 1 and as far as I know Alissa hadn’t taken a previous hit.

Again, they should ask in their mod PM, not tell all the wolves via you.

To be fair she wasn't alive very long in Breadsticks. Would be good to see if she was ever pushed there, I don't remember it happening but I'm not AM

Again, the caps have nothing to do with being pushed. They have to do with getting frustrated when people do things that are illogical and/or made up against me.

Alright. I’m conflicted.
still pretty confident in my tinfoil but she’s so convincing.
On the other side, MKG fooled me and I don’t know if I’ll ever trust a reveal again. It’s awful convenient that the resurrection will happen after day 4, conveniently today. I can’t help but worry that another wolf has Rez capacity and she’s going to claim it to clear herself and we end up with a rezzed wolf.
maybe that teapot had rezzing capacity. I don’t know. I’m spiraling.

I moved AM out of my POE for voting MKG on day 2. Unless they all planned that for less sus, and she wouldn’t have been happy about it, AM doesnt bus.

all that said I’m also ok with a sunny flip. Zenge susing her is a good idea and I looked back at previous games earlier on and anger is NAI. It also felt weird I mentioned wolves couldn’t kill me and she immediately started to , though cray also did it and I’m leaving cray village at this point.

Immediately started to..... what, Samac?

 

[Crayola227]

LONDON

@samac​

Bizarre and can't take to end game.

@holdthemayo​

Also rubs me wrong. Not as active or jokey.

@alleycat03​

Seems village but could have me fooled. Need more activity.

@LetItSnow​

Feels different than prior games. Wonder if he needs to be up for elim to get some life out of him.

@Ms Procrastinator​

Checked out since the Bob thing.

@WildZoo​

suspicious

​

YORKSHIRE & THE NORTH

@Animal Midwife​

suspicious, sounds like an impersonation of herself, but VCA looks good

@finnickthedog​

I would give her until tomorrow to do her rez or get NK, if it doesn't check out elim, and likely can't take the rezzer or rez to endgame anyway.

​

OXFORD & CAMBRIDGE

@DocEspana​

He's always sus but looks decent for stirring up stuff around mkg.

@Stagg737​

he sounds good and reads village to me, but Stagg is tricky. Need more
CORNWALL

@capri1722​

keep forgetting she's playing, tricky to read

@Barkley13​

don't trust

@Dinashadow​

don't trust

@genny​

Villagey

​

PARTS UNKNOWN

@SportPonies​

no idea, seems village

@Cyndia​

had a village read on

@Crayola227​

Villagiest village vig that ever vigged, complete with sucky kill choices. Never root for a vig ever again peeps

@sunshinefl​

If we have to play either or, starting to think this may be a good flip for data on others, and not ready to flip Finn

So impromptu date night with Cessna. We will be having dinner out and some beers. Me being on will be sporadic at best. I may do more reading than posting than usual

 

[Stagg737]

Why would it be 3 or 4? That doesn’t even make sense. If you’re village, I’m willing to sacrifice you to shut myself up.
April died.
and I want to kill you.
I never wanted to kill Sar. I’ve backed off AM; I’m reading her as villager.
April I regret. I still don’t regret wolf reading you.

Specifically, why are you wolf reading Finn? Because the tone here *just feels wrong*. Edited to finish the thought*

Why am I convinced the Sheriff is a wolf? He’s a god damn bad guy. You really think they put the sheriff in the game and made him village? That’s why.

For reference, in WW smash the character named villager was a wolf and star wolf was a villager. Doubt that this is happening in this game, but that alone is poor reasoning to suspect someone

Also, if they were planning to convert me I doubt they would have silenced me for 48 hours and then tried to kill me the next night but ya know they may have a weird ass agenda I guess.

Other than your word, what evidence do we have that they actually tried to kill you?

I'm done with lunch and I don't know when I get back to my hotel so... I guess it's time for the neon lights.

So really? No one could figure out why I was implying to samac that voting me would result in the lost of an additional villager? I didn't want to have to spell it out on thread, but I have a rez. Can't use it until after cycle 4. Would really rather not die before I get to. Vote somewhere else.

oof

Can I get your character name and starting location please

Again, This is just bad play. Relying on a role reveal is very unreliable. Remember MKG.

 

[finnickthedog]

so uhhhh what is a straightforward seer? Like they see affiliation or role?

A straightforward seer is an affiliation seer who just gets handed a "wolf" or "village" result. It was falling out of favor when I last played I think because it's just kind of easy. So was often being replaced with thinks like role name seers, ability seers, or even seers that are technically for figuring out affiliation but are a little more cryptic about it. Like for example in my cats game I had a coat type seer. If utilized well it could have identified wolves by busting their cover roles but required a little more thought/effort than me just saying "x is a wolf".
.

 

[alleycat03]

~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is getting counted

For this cycle only, people can vote for both SDN + a player
~~~~~~~~~~~~

###Yeet SDN###

For crashing during the only freetime I had in the past 4 days

 

[Crayola227]

##### unyeet mayo ####

I don't know what to do.

 

[WildZoo]

This is through about page 50 and there's a lot more because she posted more as the pressure on her mounted. And I'm getting tired so I need a break. Note that I found these by ISOing mkg, not looking for mentions of her, so there could be relevant things missing. I'm not quoting my interactions with her again because I already did that. Commentary is sporadic.

Mkg and supermayo

Spoiler

yeet elect samac



thats how I read it! but since we can only open one I'm holding off for now

Why?

I thought she did a really great job with the role in the cartoons game, and while this one might be a bit different, I think she’d do well

skimming to catch up before I have the speed game, but I'm not really a fan of the DocE thing going on, I'd feel more comfortable having someone I've been able to play with (or have read their games) in that position. I actually don't mind any of the other votes, I mean I'm personally not a fan of the self voting, but I can see why sunny and barks would vote for Ms P, I thought she played really well in bioshock, and was active enough to be considered for the role. Does she have the posting quantity of AM, Lawpy or Cray? no, but I think she posts good quality content and reads.

Mkg and samac

Spoiler

I'll stick with my initial vote and elect samac

That was my fear. That you all have already made contacts and I’m the late comer 🙁

I still have mine! I'd be willing to open one up once you've officially moved

----

I said it in bioshock and I'll say it again here, it seems like I have a talent for village reading wolves D1 and jumping in their pockets. I'm trying to only move people into village/leans if I'm real confident about them to prevent this from happening for a third time. No shade, I thought you sounded like yourself but I cant just ignore things that ping me before I move people into village lean.

I thought in ggoats you didn’t village read me until last day?

I had Dina in my village block from D1 to YOLO

Mkg and AM - feels pretty good for AM. Already in my village reads but I feel better about it now.

Spoiler

NAI means Not Affiliation Indicative, there are a list of terms below and definitions from the most recent noob game

Do you have current thoughts on the gamestate?

Well like I just posted, I really don't think shorty/DocE is w/w 🤣
Cray seems to be herself, but I read her wrong last time so I'm pretty cautious of her, I also didn't like her flipping onto the DocE vote yesterday after saying that his posts pinged her. getting silenced in the middle of the day is also a bit odd.
People definitely bought their tinfoil in bulk before this game, and while TME and Vissy's ideas are interesting, I just cant decide if they are actually helpful at the moment with what little information we have

Seems like she was trying to shade cray for her silencing here. Barks pointed out the timing was inaccurate.

Do you think one or both are village?

Well at least one is village. Both could be. I'm not really sure how to read DocE, he pinged me yesterday during the PM vote, and I didn't like that people hopped on his vote for the lulz, but I've never played with him so I dont know what the norm is with him. So far Shorty has looked pretty villagy to me. That being said, I think I'd like to see them interact with other people before I can confidently move them (either way) out of my neutral pile

-------

I think its pretty interesting how quickly the April wagon builds looking at the tallies, and while I know there were a lot of tinfoils getting thrown around about robin hood, its just weird. MsP switched from an AM vote, Samac had hers on Z earlier and pulled it off, DocE self prezzed by moving his vote off me, and Vissy and Bread cast their votes for the first time on April, with vissy's being like 10 minutes before closing. Also worth noting that 2 of the 3 people that voted for AM are now dead

Not a direct interaction, but AM shade

How are you interpreting that?

I'm going back and forth on it, if AM was a wolf, it looks really obvious, so then maybe she's being framed? Its just odd, especially when the only person alive on the vote is Alissa, who AM is trying to lead a yeet on

She kinda walks it back and then walks it forward again. Like she wants to shade AM without actually drawing her ire.

And then AM responds to her post about the wagons

Do you have thoughts on the other wagons that formed as well?

So the only other people that had more than one vote were:
AM (3) - alissa, TME, SAR
Alissa (2) - finn, capri
Zenge (3) - genny, sunshine, cray
sunshine (3) - LIS, VMH, Barks

Some things that stand out to me about each:
AM - kinda reading village based on tone/questions, but some things have pinged me: she has led a yeet against Alissa D2 in every game I've played with her which is kinda weird, & had back and forth with Alissa but left her vote on Stagg, before placing a contingency yeet on Alissa for D2
Alissa - full disclosure, I get her mixed up with Alley, but from doing a quick iso and skimming I feel ok about her right now, pretty much neutral
Zenge - I dont think he's acting very similar to when he was a wolf in bioshock, but I wouldnt say this is normal village zenge either. I dont really trust my own reads after getting pocketed last time, but right now he's on the lower end of the neutral pile, closer to wolf lean
Sunny - I have her tentatively in village leans, I think her frustration was genuine, and her content posts have added to the discussion well

Why not include the single-vote wagons?

The bolded is patently false. Outside of that though, why is that or the following statements weird to you?

Why are you only neutral on alissa if she's okay? How do you feel about alley?

I honestly didn't think single-votes were considered wagons.
Sorry, you led the alissa D2 in ggoats, then she got yeeted D1 in Bioshock. It just stuck with me that Alissa seems to get yeeted early on a lot. I dont think its some pattern that is AI for you, but I had it in whats left of my notes and I left it. She's ok because I literally searched posts for user, skimmed the page of results and felt ok, but that is missing context of posts, and any responses people have to her. I really need to go back and ISO alley and Alissa, the A names plus cat pics just make them merge into one person in my brain, and I dont feel comfortable giving much of a read on them or moving them out of neutral when I'm forgetting who said what

Yes, anything on the tally with at least one vote on the board is a wagon and extremely relevant to VCA. So what are your thoughts there?

I had nothing to do with her D1 yeet in Bioshock so I don't understand why you're linking that together.

What do you mean by missing context of posts? I assumed since you mentioned me pushing her being weird that you've seen some of the debates we've had.

I'm saying that I remember the gist of it, but because I haven't been keeping up with my notes I want to go and refresh my memory before I move her into a lean category/give a strong read on her. You've had other discussions on threads that have helped me want to lean you village, its just that your vote on her did remind me of GGoats. I'll try and run a thorough iso on her by the end of D2, and then hopefully on Alley so I can try and keep them straight from now on

I'm saying that I remember the gist of it, but because I haven't been keeping up with my notes I want to go and refresh my memory before I move her into a lean category/give a strong read on her. You've had other discussions on threads that have helped me want to lean you village, its just that your vote on her did remind me of GGoats. I'll try and run a thorough iso on her by the end of D2, and then hopefully on Alley so I can try and keep them straight from now on

---------

I’m checking in from the barn again, just a quick update:
I have my notes for my Alissa iso on my laptop, and I have not gotten to her interactions with AM yet, but so far she seems pro-village.
for everyone thinking that I’m inactive, your correct, I spread myself a bit thin this week between this, the game night and speed game over the weekend and IRL things going on. I’ve been at the barn since 9 and probably won’t be back home till 5, I had to have the vet out for one of my mares. I will happily share more reads later, but you need to be patient with me if you want more in depth thoughts. I didn’t realize single votes fell under the term wagon yesterday so that’s why I didn’t share my thoughts on those votes. And it honestly drives me crazy that people think it’s weird I’m not playing the same as in ggoats. The same thing came up in bio shock. I don’t think you can consider that my meta as I’d like to think I’ve improved or adjusted my play style since my first game.

I'd be interested in hearing which posts you're referring to. I feel like >75% of all of her posts have been interactions with me or about me.

And then mkg did an alissa ISO, which interestingly enough turned into AM analysis too. The following are all AM quotes that mkg responded to in her ISO.

Pay attention to who I'm talking to. I'll mention them when it cohesive and finished.

I just want to remind AM that if this is ok for you to do, it has to be ok for others too. I did see your vote for me and honestly its so hypocritical to say you're not done with reads and not post them, and then turn around and ask others for them and then be upset when they either A) respond promptly but arent complete or B) say they need more time. I havent posted a lot on this thread but I have posted more READS than you. all you've put out is a POE, which was just names.

//

I think more discussion should be on Stagg, Enigma, and Vis personally tomorrow.

AM finally posts a POE, no reads

//
Lost the AM quote but it was something about alisa acting weird

I dont think she's acting that weird, but again, this is my third game, and Alissa got misyeeted D2 and D1 in them. I do really think this whole squable is v/v

look, clearly a lot of people have feelings about the whole North/Sheriff thing. And with April being Robin Hood I think its even more valid. But having that tinfoil does not = yeet the whole north group. But if AM or Finn start acting wolfy, I'd be willing to yeet one if there is more than just the tinfoil

//

And that you will bet your life (and allow yourself to be successfully yeeted) if you are wrong? Deal?

what is with all this? it makes me feel worse about AM. Samac, SAR, and I'd assume all the people who hopped on April's vote yesterday believed this tinfoil is possible. so why are you so stuck on Alissa? She's not even the one who started the tinfoil??

//

Wolves tend to be "wrong" about theories.
"Oopsies, I didn't mean to yeet all those villagers [and none of my partners]. Sorry I was wrong."

Village can have wrong theories too, are you expecting us to perfectly mechanics solve as village?? like what?? I know you dont like mechanics solving AM but like seriously.

//

Did you miss my POE I posted literally less than an hour ago? And did you miss the reasoning literally in the Stagg yeet when I did it? And will you address the bolded statement in your other quote?

POE does not = reads.

//

When it's a theory that involves yeeting at least three people randomly (maybe four), I fail see how there's no wolf motivation. samac was super invested in the idea that there was one wolf in every group last game, and two games prior to that was super invested in the idea that a group of three contained a wolf. So believing this is par for her that I can pass that off as noobiness for expecting everything will be in a neat bucket despite being proven otherwise. alissa, on the other hand, knows better. Maybe there is a North wolf, but I think blindly yeeting until the entire group is dead is the wolfiest way to go about exploring it. They'd be discovered just the same by just voting the wolfiest people and the number will dwindle and out them naturally instead of buying free misyeeting during the hardest part of the game for wolves to control.

NO ONE IS SAYING TO YEET THE WHOLE GD GROUP! BUT IF SOMEONE STARTS ACTING REALLY WOLFY IN THE GROUP, THEN YEAH, THEY MIGHT BE THE SHERIFF. STOP MAKING THESE BONEHEADED ASSUMPTIONS

//

So this is the last of it, Alissa hasnt been on since yesterday afternoon, and she unyeeted AM. This was supposed to be an ISO for alissa and it turned into a kinda AM ISO. I now have Alissa firmly in my village leans, AM I've put back in neutral for now. I dont like that she tunneled on alissa for a tinfoil that other people started, and some of her posts above pinged me. I know this isnt all AM has done so I'm not willing to put her in wolf leans quite yet, but what started as v/v bickering went kinda far and I'll be keeping an eye on AM more in the future.

/end alissa/AM ISO, AM then responded to some things

SAR didn't even vote for April.

You saying POE =/= reads is laughable. A POE is a collection of wolfreads. That's literally the definition. You cannot outdefine someone who's been playing this for five years. Better luck next time.

your POE is was a list of names. No thoughts, or reasoning attached. THAT was the point I was making. because when ever YOU ask for reads, you want the whole GD roster, with reasons for every name. So thanks for reminding me you dont hold yourself to the same standards as everyone else

------

I need a lot more from mkg personally.

There are only so many hours in a day AM. Get on the list. Oh and feel free to share your own list.

You mean like the reads I already have shared multiple times in the past 40+ hours?

no no no no no. you are not going to pull this BS. you asked for my reads yesterday. If you asked before that then sorry, I missed that. I have had a long day, dealing with things far more important than this game will ever be. I told you yesterday I wanted to ISO Ally and Alissa before giving reads, and I have done ONE. So if you want more than a list of names, tough luck

Mkg and barks

Spoiler

Well like I just posted, I really don't think shorty/DocE is w/w 🤣
Cray seems to be herself, but I read her wrong last time so I'm pretty cautious of her, I also didn't like her flipping onto the DocE vote yesterday after saying that his posts pinged her. getting silenced in the middle of the day is also a bit odd.
People definitely bought their tinfoil in bulk before this game, and while TME and Vissy's ideas are interesting, I just cant decide if they are actually helpful at the moment with what little information we have

I thought it happened over night?

I just double-checked and you're correct. she was posting regularly in the early AM way before night results came out, and has been silenced since then

-----

Yeet mkg

got any thoughts to share? not a fan of the naked vote

I mean you literally quotes what I had to say about it later in your post so not sure what your question is

-----

Yes I also thought her DocE vote was weird at the time (opportunistic maybe?) and then was weirded out when she was shading AM yesterday but also kind of hedging on it

I was frustrated by how he was acting, didn't think he was acting very pro-village, and didnt like any other wagon. you can look at the end of my Alissa ISO to see more of my thoughts on AM. I didn't think it was that big of a deal to point out the killed players voting, it was more of a, huh, well thats funny, more than something to use for AI. It was at the top of the list and stood out like a sore thumb.

It didn’t really sound like just a “huh that’s weird thing” and very much sounded like trying to throw shade when you doubled down on it being odd especially with AM pushing alissa but while still hedging with the “AM may be a wolf or she’s being framed”. It felt like trying to get other people to find AM sketchy while trying to not take a stance yourself

I was asked further about whether I thought the deaths were weird, which is the only reason I went further into that thought in the first place. and I entertained the idea of her being a wolf rather briefly and tossed it out because A) I think its its too obvious and B) WIFOM

I like this interaction, not just because that was my exact thought when I read that post again

Mkg and DocE

Spoiler

I will hopefully be back before yeet close, but for now I'll

YEET DOCE


this is the only post I've found that isnt just about Shorty, but its still limited to those involved in the dumpster fire of a discussion yesterday. There are 28 people in this game, reads should not be limited to those who have directly opposed you/have sheeped you.

Note this was actually a response to april, mkg jumped in to reply

See my latest post. you are a buffoon (from a strategic perspective) if you are not hyper focusing on those who interact with you

I'm not saying ignore those who want to engage in discussion with you, but I would expect you to interact with more than the people opposing you and cray. I honestly held off making a decision on you or voting for you yesterday because I wanted to see you interact with other people and engage in discussions unrelated to your argument with Shorty, but unless I missed a page or something that never happened. I feel like you're still tunnelling on this stuff and I don't think that is at all helpful or pro-village. And I get that this is how you play, but when things get heated right off the bat on D1 it's not enjoyable for the rest of us, or at least not for me.

Same here, DocE was responding to april

I literally wrote out that I have a spreadsheet with my thoughts on every single person but I am not going to make that public. But that I'm concerned that my opinions on day one with absolutely no information are mostly noise and little signal. So there's no way in hell I'm going to broadcast my opinions on anyone else because it just makes me a pawn for wolves to point where they want (on people I'm wrong about) and redirect away from anyone I'm right about. it lets them know which one of the wolves are doing a good job or a bad job. I don't want to give them that information.

And then I further clarified in a different post that I focus intensely on the people who interact with me today because there is no other information I can rely on except for knowing that I'm a villager. so I can focus on that and look at who appears to be criticizing me for valid reasons and who appears to be criticizing me because they're lazy and who appears to be criticizing me to try to knock me out of the game when it's easy - early - rather than when it's much harder later in the game because this whole nonsense generally does end up catching a wolf, two if I'm lucky, when it's used in hindsight a few days into the game.

Even LIS said so. That if I pop villager on death that wolves will be identifiable by who was on board with this stupid lynch of my style rather than my substance.

I said the same thing in regards to sunny, I'm not asking nor expecting anyone to post a fully fleshed out spreadsheet D1. But even if you don't want to post a list, even a shortened one, I'd hope to see you engaging on the thread with the different discussions going on, and sharing thoughts that way, but your play style is so reclusive I've yet to see it happen.

Mkg and cray

Spoiler

Well like I just posted, I really don't think shorty/DocE is w/w 🤣
Cray seems to be herself, but I read her wrong last time so I'm pretty cautious of her, I also didn't like her flipping onto the DocE vote yesterday after saying that his posts pinged her. getting silenced in the middle of the day is also a bit odd.
People definitely bought their tinfoil in bulk before this game, and while TME and Vissy's ideas are interesting, I just cant decide if they are actually helpful at the moment with what little information we have

This reads a little like her speed game wolf attempts to shade people

I said it in bioshock and I'll say it again here, it seems like I have a talent for village reading wolves D1 and jumping in their pockets. I'm trying to only move people into village/leans if I'm real confident about them to prevent this from happening for a third time. No shade, I thought you sounded like yourself but I cant just ignore things that ping me before I move people into village lean.

------

I would agree that a wolfy Mkg seems to find it harder to have a hard edge.

I'd prefer if having a hard edge isnt considered a part of my meta, ever. When I did that iso of Pleasy I was in a bad mood and totally tunneled into her and was a rude ***hole too.

Miscellaneous:

A ??? comment on finn

Why is Finnick a village lean? I haven't felt much about them in either direction yet.

FTFY
also not sure about the finn village lean. I just haven't seen enough from her yet in terms of wolf hunting to move her out of neutrals. I did really enjoy reading about her WW logic about sharing reads though.

------
Perhaps relevant for supermayo and/or DocE

I'm not going to put my vote on Zenge today. Although I feel like his posts have been pingy, I'm starting to think I was letting some of the last game's sus roll over into this one. I feel a lot less strongly about him wolfing this game than I did last game. He hasn't come after me at all as opposed to the last game when he got really heated any time I put any kind of pressure on him. There has been a little bit of fluff but not really the hedginess I remember.

He's a great villager when he's a villager and I want more of a reason to yeet him if I'm going to do that. Last game I would have gladly flipped him D1 but this time I'm a lot less confident it wouldn't be a misyeet. And that would be a horrible misyeet if it is, and a great asset to wolves.

Would much rather see a DocE flip.

So then do you think that Z could be trying to pocket shorty by going after DocE? or heck, maybe both of them are wolves?

-------
Soft sunshine defense

Sunny's recent posts are bothering me a bit, because she seems reluctant to share/expand on her thoughts. Not sure if normal D1 Sunny though.

The other part is that I'm not really seeing the zenge vote. Nothing he's said has struck me as wolf!zenge yet. The only thing I've noticed is he's been quieter compared to normal, but I think that's NAI because he was pretty active last game as a wolf. I didn't really see his posts as defending shorty, and he has provided reads on others when asked.

I'd love to see her spreadsheets as well, she makes really great ones. That being said, with only like half the roster having posted regularly since the start I'm not ready to say that her posting a couple of thoughts instead of a spreadsheet is AI.

----------

Bread:~12 Content posts D1Vote:April
Mkg:~19 Content posts D1Vote: DocE
Stagg:~12 Content Posts D1Vote: Shorty/Mayo
Capri:~19 Content Posts D1Vote: Alissa
Sporty:~16 Content Posts D1Vote: SAR
Cyndia:~20 Content Posts D1Vote: Vis

We’re currently at over 2200 posts on the thread, and these 6 have the fewest posts as far as I can tell. Less than 1% of the total. What I consider “content” is subjective so consider it plus or minus a few posts here or there. I think it’s likely we have a wolf or two hiding in here. Since we don’t have a ton of content to go off of for reads, I included their D1 votes for reference. Most of them were on wagons that weren’t going anywhere except Bread on April, and Mkg on DocE.

I will say, at least for MKG, she has posted her reads recently, so that’s better than the other 5 for analysis purposes. I still don’t have a good read on her though.

going back to this, so I have 19 content posts by your standards, same as Capri, one less than Cyndia. I also had recently posted reads on the top wagons yesterday. So then why vote me? wouldnt it make sense to push the people who have skimmed by with even less posts and no reads?

Just caught my eye that she mentioned capri and cyndia instead of pointing out that she had posted more than sporty, stagg, and bread.
Which reminded me of her later reads post...

I think Bread would be a good start. Cyndia would also be an option, I havent seen anything from her that stands out as different from Bioshock. I'd still like to see Alissa's explanation for why she presumably took Z out of her POE, or at least didn't put her vote back there during D1, as he hadn't posted much at the time. I'm reading him village from this push on me, because he's right I've been playing like garbage which sucks to admit.
And if AM gave her thoughts after, I might have missed them cause my brain is kinda fried right now.

 

[Animal Midwife]

LONDON

@samac​

Bizarre and can't take to end game.

@holdthemayo​

Also rubs me wrong. Not as active or jokey.

@alleycat03​

Seems village but could have me fooled. Need more activity.

@LetItSnow​

Feels different than prior games. Wonder if he needs to be up for elim to get some life out of him.

@Ms Procrastinator​

Checked out since the Bob thing.

@WildZoo​

suspicious

​

YORKSHIRE & THE NORTH

@Animal Midwife​

suspicious, sounds like an impersonation of herself, but VCA looks good

@finnickthedog​

I would give her until tomorrow to do her rez or get NK, if it doesn't check out elim, and likely can't take the rezzer or rez to endgame anyway.

​

OXFORD & CAMBRIDGE

@DocEspana​

He's always sus but looks decent for stirring up stuff around mkg.

@Stagg737​

he sounds good and reads village to me, but Stagg is tricky. Need more
CORNWALL

@capri1722​

keep forgetting she's playing, tricky to read

@Barkley13​

don't trust

@Dinashadow​

don't trust

@genny​

Villagey

​

PARTS UNKNOWN

@SportPonies​

no idea, seems village

@Cyndia​

had a village read on

@Crayola227​

Villagiest village vig that ever vigged, complete with sucky kill choices. Never root for a vig ever again peeps

@sunshinefl​

If we have to play either or, starting to think this may be a good flip for data on others, and not ready to flip Finn

So impromptu date night with Cessna. We will be having dinner out and some beers. Me being on will be sporadic at best. I may do more reading than posting than usual

I don't understand what you're reading village about Stagg.

 

[Cyndia]

I’m back and starting a catch up

 

[Crayola227]

so uhhhh what is a straightforward seer? Like they see affiliation or role? I’m still pretty confused on what Mkg’s role was too. I’ve never heard of a ninja ladyseer


cray already touched on this pretty well, but we had to make multiple attempts on several people during Bioshock. Dina was protected a couple of times, and LIS’ failed kill was very frustrating to us since he was a 3P that was hard to kill. I wouldn’t say that a wolfpack that attempts to kill Samac multiple times are “fools.” Seems pretty harsh, but I do agree that Samac could’ve kept a bit more information to herself and not advertise so loudly that she’s unkillable.


So we have a possible HP character, the sheriff, AND April (Robinhood?) all stealing stuff. Dang that’s really suspicious

Also there are "sanities." A sane seer will get results that make sense, a villager will seer as villager and a wolf will be wolf. An insane one, results are the opposite. A paranoid seer will get a wolf result on everyone. There's more variations. Some of them it's possible to figure out the pattern and others it isn't.

 

[samac]

Maybe the royals should ask in their mod PM, and not in their PM with you so you can spill even MORE info to the wolves.

Okay exactly. I could have “saved” mkg if I was a wolf who wanted to. So then why are you voting me?

I’m not emulating anything. When I get angry and do all caps I’m actually IRL very angry. It’s NAI actually. Not me trying to get village credit.

Okay but I have had zero seer results and I welcome it if there is another person with a seer type role.



Again, they should ask in their mod PM, not tell all the wolves via you.

Again, the caps have nothing to do with being pushed. They have to do with gettinfwhen people do things that are illogical and/or made up against me.

Immediately started to..... what, Samac?

Immediately start to come at me is what that should say.

Specifically, why are you wolf reading Finn? Because the tone here hust



For reference, in WW smash the character named villager was a wolf and star wolf was a villager. Doubt that this is happening in this game, but that alone is poor reasoning to suspect someone



Other than your word, what evidence do we have that they actually tried to kill you?



oof



Again, This is just bad play. Relying on a role reveal is very unreliable. Remember MKG.

She’s already role revealed, I just wanted the character information. Different than asking mkg to reveal and wolves came up with a hella good lie. Now I’m more sus of role reveals cause she got me.
as far as Finn goes she seemed to do a lot of not giving reads and not helping out a lot the first couple days with gravitated me toward her over AM. Others pointed out her poor VCA and other reasons, but honestly I’m in a tunnel I can’t see the light out of.

all you have is me saying I was attacked by someone in armor with a sword, I guess.

 

[PippyPony]

Day 4 - The Black Server Death Descends - Vote Tally

Finn (7) - Mayo, samac, alley, cyndia, genny, stagg, docE
Sunshine (6) - Dubz, barks, dina, LIS, AM, finn
Dubz (0) -
Mayo (0) -
Crayola (0) -
Samac (1) - sporty

SDN (2) - Ms P, alleycat

@finnickthedog you are in the lead
14/18 players voting
voting closes in < 1.5 hours

 

[samac]

LONDON

@samac​

Bizarre and can't take to end game.

@holdthemayo​

Also rubs me wrong. Not as active or jokey.

@alleycat03​

Seems village but could have me fooled. Need more activity.

@LetItSnow​

Feels different than prior games. Wonder if he needs to be up for elim to get some life out of him.

@Ms Procrastinator​

Checked out since the Bob thing.

@WildZoo​

suspicious

​

YORKSHIRE & THE NORTH

@Animal Midwife​

suspicious, sounds like an impersonation of herself, but VCA looks good

@finnickthedog​

I would give her until tomorrow to do her rez or get NK, if it doesn't check out elim, and likely can't take the rezzer or rez to endgame anyway.

​

OXFORD & CAMBRIDGE

@DocEspana​

He's always sus but looks decent for stirring up stuff around mkg.

@Stagg737​

he sounds good and reads village to me, but Stagg is tricky. Need more
CORNWALL

@capri1722​

keep forgetting she's playing, tricky to read

@Barkley13​

don't trust

@Dinashadow​

don't trust

@genny​

Villagey

​

PARTS UNKNOWN

@SportPonies​

no idea, seems village

@Cyndia​

had a village read on

@Crayola227​

Villagiest village vig that ever vigged, complete with sucky kill choices. Never root for a vig ever again peeps

@sunshinefl​

If we have to play either or, starting to think this may be a good flip for data on others, and not ready to flip Finn

So impromptu date night with Cessna. We will be having dinner out and some beers. Me being on will be sporadic at best. I may do more reading than posting than usual

You gotta yeet me because I’m weird? I’m always weird.
feels weird you’re insisting on yeeting me because the wolves can’t kill me. But cool bro, say you have to yeet a villager.

This is through about page 50 and there's a lot more because she posted more as the pressure on her mounted. And I'm getting tired so I need a break. Note that I found these by ISOing mkg, not looking for mentions of her, so there could be relevant things missing. I'm not quoting my interactions with her again because I already did that. Commentary is sporadic.

Mkg and supermayo

Mkg and samac

Spoiler

----

Mkg and AM - feels pretty good for AM. Already in my village reads but I feel better about it now.

Spoiler

Seems like she was trying to shade cray for her silencing here. Barks pointed out the timing was inaccurate.




-------

Not a direct interaction, but AM shade



She kinda walks it back and then walks it forward again. Like she wants to shade AM without actually drawing her ire.

And then AM responds to her post about the wagons










---------




And then mkg did an alissa ISO, which interestingly enough turned into AM analysis too. The following are all AM quotes that mkg responded to in her ISO.



//


//
Lost the AM quote but it was something about alisa acting weird



//


//


//


//



//


/end alissa/AM ISO, AM then responded to some things




------

Mkg and barks

Spoiler

-----





-----







I like this interaction, not just because that was my exact thought when I read that post again

Mkg and DocE

Spoiler

Note this was actually a response to april, mkg jumped in to reply




Same here, DocE was responding to april

Mkg and cray

Spoiler

------

Miscellaneous:

A ??? comment on finn




------
Perhaps relevant for supermayo and/or DocE



-------
Soft sunshine defense



----------



Just caught my eye that she mentioned capri and cyndia instead of pointing out that she had posted more than sporty, stagg, and bread.
Which reminded me of her later reads post...

I do want to mention this given some folks think I’m more sus now a days, and this is directed at you DubZ, if I was a wolf why would mkg open a pm with me? She would already have a line of communication with me and then pocket me in it. I don’t even understand lol