Envision Healthcare teeters on the brink of bankruptcy

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TheLoneWolf

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I had interviewed for a really nice location in Florida with envision. Working for PE and sitting around signing charts all day....yuck. Glad I hadn't continued on that path.
 
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What does that mean for my envision friends? Time to jump ship?
Envision may (and likely will) go away - the work, however, will not. This has been predicted by some of us for quite a while and I suspect that even before it becomes public that HCA will have a plan for a transition. The ED and the procedural areas drive revenue and earnings for every hospital/health system. Mission critical activities get attention and I suspect that the clinicians will find out very quickly that if they like where they work that a job will be there. Without the burden of meeting a private equity ROI some of these "money losing" departments will likely not look bad financially.

I will point out the obvious that the issues facing Envision in terms of revenue decreases and labor expense (us) don't go away even when they do. Every health system I follow is struggling with recruiting/retaining adequate numbers of anesthesia clinicians. It is going to be a turbulent market for several years. The Denver anesthesia market is a perfect example. The predominate group there, USAP, "right-sized" itself and there are literally multiple facilities in multiple systems that face having no anesthesia coverage in the next few months. It will be interesting to see whether this leads to room closures, facility consolidation or even something more radical like other providers contemplating providing aspects of anesthesia services.
 
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Envision may (and likely will) go away - the work, however, will not. This has been predicted by some of us for quite a while and I suspect that even before it becomes public that HCA will have a plan for a transition. The ED and the procedural areas drive revenue and earnings for every hospital/health system. Mission critical activities get attention and I suspect that the clinicians will find out very quickly that if they like where they work that a job will be there. Without the burden of meeting a private equity ROI some of these "money losing" departments will likely not look bad financially.

I will point out the obvious that the issues facing Envision in terms of revenue decreases and labor expense (us) don't go away even when they do. Every health system I follow is struggling with recruiting/retaining adequate numbers of anesthesia clinicians. It is going to be a turbulent market for several years. The Denver anesthesia market is a perfect example. The predominate group there, USAP, "right-sized" itself and there are literally multiple facilities in multiple systems that face having no anesthesia coverage in the next few months. It will be interesting to see whether this leads to room closures, facility consolidation or even something more radical like other providers contemplating providing aspects of anesthesia services.
Well said.

Or envision may just do this to gain more favorable terms on their debt as they have in the past. Or a combination of debt restructuring and cutting their less profitable hospitals.

Won't change much on the ground though. They still need docs for the ORs
 

Envision is not too big to fail. IMHO private equity has not been a positive in health care for the most part.
 
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No big shock that the inability to surprise bill patients will drive all the corporatized groups out of business (all of whom relied on this tactic to exist).
 
PE will sell and still make money off their investment. Not sure how the math works but they always come out on top.
People repeatedly say this, but it is without merit. Perhaps this was true 2010-2022 where the markets were perpetually green, but this is a new era. Inflation, war, politics, post covid burnout has changed that landscape. For PE to sell there needs to be a buyer and that buyer is typically funded by different PE money and debt. With interest rates up, cash reserves being held back for the coming recession, the cost of labor skyrocketing, there may not be a "greater fool" out there who wishes to take over the asset that is Envision.

We just have to hope that a government bailout is not offered, and Envision itself is too small to garner such a bailout.
 
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The parent company KKR has billions of cash to bail themselves out. But won’t.

It’s just how the system works

Take example Chrysler being purchased by cerebrus private equity for 7.4 billion. Chrysler was valued at 1.4 billion when it was bailed out.

Cerebrus has billion in reserve plus for 5.5 billion from the 700 billion dollar 2008 bailout. But didn’t spend a single cent in Chrysler. They kept it for themselves. Like Envison/KKR keeping all the Covid money.

In the end. Cerebrus lost only 10% of their original investment. Not 10% of 7.4 billion.

But likely only lost 10% of 700 million they put in. So they lost only 70 million

Imagine if private equity would have flipped Chrysler for 10 billion or more. They probably only put 500 million of their own money and would have made 3 billion. A massive return

That’s how these private equity firms operate. Their profit margins are huge.

Kkr probably tried to do the same. 9 billion dollars and probably only have 500 million of their own money tied into the purchase
 
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People repeatedly say this, but it is without merit. Perhaps this was true 2010-2022 where the markets were perpetually green, but this is a new era. Inflation, war, politics, post covid burnout has changed that landscape. For PE to sell there needs to be a buyer and that buyer is typically funded by different PE money and debt. With interest rates up, cash reserves being held back for the coming recession, the cost of labor skyrocketing, there may not be a "greater fool" out there who wishes to take over the asset that is Envision.

We just have to hope that a government bailout is not offered, and Envision itself is too small to garner such a bailout.
Agreed - I think they will smolder and burn into bankruptcy, then they’ll probably cannibalize the parts to sell off (eg try to sell the practice elements with consulting fees to the hospitals themselves with a threat to sue on noncompetes). I doubt another PE will want to buy in because with surprise billing gone they have no way to make (sketchy) money.
 
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The parent company KKR has billions of cash to bail themselves out. But won’t.

It’s just how the system works

Take example Chrysler being purchased by cerebrus private equity for 7.4 billion. Chrysler was valued at 1.4 billion when it was bailed out.

Cerebrus has billion in reserve plus for 5.5 billion from the 700 billion dollar 2008 bailout. But didn’t spend a single cent in Chrysler. They kept it for themselves. Like Envison/KKR keeping all the Covid money.

In the end. Cerebrus lost only 10% of their original investment. Not 10% of 7.4 billion.

But likely only lost 10% of 700 million they put in. So they lost only 70 million

Imagine if private equity would have flipped Chrysler for 10 billion or more. They probably only put 500 million of their own money and would have made 3 billion. A massive return

That’s how these private equity firms operate. Their profit margins are huge.

Kkr probably tried to do the same. 9 billion dollars and probably only have 500 million of their own money tied into the purchase
At some point there is a correction. It's easy to make money when everyone is making money and the markets only go up, circa 2010-2022. The people, states, and institutions putting money into private equity at some point wise up or get sued into wising up due to their fiduciary duty to investors. If you keep losing money or losing more money than in "safe" investments, eventually you pull your money out or you retreat to safety. This will happen to PE too and either they will have to use their own cash reserves, charge less, accept lower returns, or dissolve.

KKR, Cerebrus, and all these private equity companies simply haven't had to deal with such a looming landscape in awhile. They'll of course adjust, but in the end, all signs point to a dual medical system. Single payor government healthcare for the poor. Think nurses, NPs, PAs, and ornamental physicians galore. Then there will be insurance backed healthcare for everyone that can afford to pay. Think concierge, physician only, high level care where they give the middle finger to CMS and a well visit to a primary care doc for a late 30's woman like myself will read "In good state of health, continue taking prenatal MVI, physicial exam unremarkable, return for annual visit in 1 year." The end. No 50 pages of notes and medical record to satisfy bull**** metrics.

Its virtually innevitable with the way healthcare funding is going.
 
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Envision may (and likely will) go away - the work, however, will not. This has been predicted by some of us for quite a while and I suspect that even before it becomes public that HCA will have a plan for a transition. The ED and the procedural areas drive revenue and earnings for every hospital/health system. Mission critical activities get attention and I suspect that the clinicians will find out very quickly that if they like where they work that a job will be there. Without the burden of meeting a private equity ROI some of these "money losing" departments will likely not look bad financially.

I will point out the obvious that the issues facing Envision in terms of revenue decreases and labor expense (us) don't go away even when they do. Every health system I follow is struggling with recruiting/retaining adequate numbers of anesthesia clinicians. It is going to be a turbulent market for several years. The Denver anesthesia market is a perfect example. The predominate group there, USAP, "right-sized" itself and there are literally multiple facilities in multiple systems that face having no anesthesia coverage in the next few months. It will be interesting to see whether this leads to room closures, facility consolidation or even something more radical like other providers contemplating providing aspects of anesthesia services.

I certainly understand the ground game won’t change…. I also feel powerless every time stupid stuff like this out of our controls (or above our pay grades) happen and affect our livelihoods.

I suppose that’s part of the reasons why the path of least resistance right now is either working for AMC or hospitals, rather than dealing with the headwind every few months. As long as I have a pay check, I should be thankful.
 
The parent company KKR has billions of cash to bail themselves out. But won’t.

It’s just how the system works

Take example Chrysler being purchased by cerebrus private equity for 7.4 billion. Chrysler was valued at 1.4 billion when it was bailed out.

Cerebrus has billion in reserve plus for 5.5 billion from the 700 billion dollar 2008 bailout. But didn’t spend a single cent in Chrysler. They kept it for themselves. Like Envison/KKR keeping all the Covid money.

In the end. Cerebrus lost only 10% of their original investment. Not 10% of 7.4 billion.

But likely only lost 10% of 700 million they put in. So they lost only 70 million

Imagine if private equity would have flipped Chrysler for 10 billion or more. They probably only put 500 million of their own money and would have made 3 billion. A massive return

That’s how these private equity firms operate. Their profit margins are huge.

Kkr probably tried to do the same. 9 billion dollars and probably only have 500 million of their own money tied into the purchase


PE companies don’t go into an investment without an exit plan. They try to maximize their returns over 5-8 years through operations. Then flipping for a huge gain is always plan A. But bankruptcy is probably no lower than plan C and no big deal as long as they got their initial investment back by squeezing the companies they acquired. They will move on to the next thing. Medical practices are just widget factories, they could not care less. They have no interest in running a medical practice for 30 or 50 years. It’s not a failure to declare bankruptcy.
 
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I certainly understand the ground game won’t change…. I also feel powerless every time stupid stuff like this out of our controls (or above our pay grades) happen and affect our livelihoods.

I suppose that’s part of the reasons why the path of least resistance right now is either working for AMC or hospitals, rather than dealing with the headwind every few months. As long as I have a pay check, I should be thankful.
All three business models face risks..albeit different ones to some extent.

Several PP groups in this region have dissolved due to a combo of declining or flat payor reimbursement in the face of increasing labor costs.

The ability for any of these payment models to adapt and survive is dependent upon the payor mix, local labor costs, subsidy, location, etc.

We may see a shift back towards PP or PP with hospital support since they can run leaner. But who knows..
 
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We may see a shift back towards PP or PP with hospital support since they can run leaner. But who knows..

Even the leanest of MD-only private practices are facing existential headwinds. Insurance companies have become increasingly emboldened, for example pushing back hard on a measly 3% increase after keeping reimbursement flat for the past 5-10 years.

I think within the next decade our field will be predominantly hospital employed, or have some sort of employment setup similar to Kaiser physicians.
 
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Envision may (and likely will) go away - the work, however, will not. This has been predicted by some of us for quite a while and I suspect that even before it becomes public that HCA will have a plan for a transition. The ED and the procedural areas drive revenue and earnings for every hospital/health system. Mission critical activities get attention and I suspect that the clinicians will find out very quickly that if they like where they work that a job will be there. Without the burden of meeting a private equity ROI some of these "money losing" departments will likely not look bad financially.

I will point out the obvious that the issues facing Envision in terms of revenue decreases and labor expense (us) don't go away even when they do. Every health system I follow is struggling with recruiting/retaining adequate numbers of anesthesia clinicians. It is going to be a turbulent market for several years. The Denver anesthesia market is a perfect example. The predominate group there, USAP, "right-sized" itself and there are literally multiple facilities in multiple systems that face having no anesthesia coverage in the next few months. It will be interesting to see whether this leads to room closures, facility consolidation or even something more radical like other providers contemplating providing aspects of anesthesia services


I think this is a fairly accurate assessment of the situation. The reality is that there is a severe shortage of clinicians and that doesn't go away period. The companies that stay around will be the ones that can negotiate subsidies and provide above market compensation with a good lifestyle and management structure. Even with all the above, its better to retain physicians and app on staff then rebuild a program which would take years. I will also say that in the current market most hospitals systems are struggling with 53% (beckers) in the red now and 2/3 expected to be in the red by the end of the year.
 
Two things to keep in mind about private equity and Envision in particular:
  • PE firms typically harvest profits throughout the life cycle of their investment (e.g., dividend recaps, etc.) KKR likely got a good chunk of their money out already. Maybe even made some above their investment… however, not so sure that from an opportunity cost perspective it was a good place to invest capital compared to alternative investments they could have made (meaning if they could do it again they wouldn’t do it again). To be fair to them, the decisions are generally always crystal clear in hindsight.
  • Emvision is more than a physician practice management company. The AMSURG part is where the current value is - hence why KKR and Envision management did the debt restructuring game the way they did to protect the AMSURG assets
My two cents, Envision will be split up with the surgery center assets being spun off/sold and the practice management piece fading away, maybe abruptly.
 
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I think this is a fairly accurate assessment of the situation. The reality is that there is a severe shortage of clinicians and that doesn't go away period. The companies that stay around will be the ones that can negotiate subsidies and provide above market compensation with a good lifestyle and management structure. Even with all the above, its better to retain physicians and app on staff then rebuild a program which would take years. I will also say that in the current market most hospitals systems are struggling with 53% (beckers) in the red now and 2/3 expected to be in the red by the end of the year.
Just because it is logical to retain staff does not mean that happens. Look at what the hospitals did with nurses, they paid pie in the sky locums rates and did everything they could to get their experienced staff to leave except firing them. Now they still have to give raises and a huge pool of the nursing staff has no experience. Same goes for physicians--we had a hospital terminate our ICU contract in the middle of the covid pandemic and bring on a PE staffing company and the care there suffered so much the CT surgery and neurosurgery programs shut down to go to the hospital with a properly staffed ICU. Years later they finally have it staffed but it has cost them multiples more than it would have to just keep our group from the astanomical locums they had to pay. The geniuses running hospitals do **** like this all the time.
 
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Just because it is logical to retain staff does not mean that happens. Look at what the hospitals did with nurses, they paid pie in the sky locums rates and did everything they could to get their experienced staff to leave except firing them. Now they still have to give raises and a huge pool of the nursing staff has no experience. Same goes for physicians--we had a hospital terminate our ICU contract in the middle of the covid pandemic and bring on a PE staffing company and the care there suffered so much the CT surgery and neurosurgery programs shut down to go to the hospital with a properly staffed ICU. Years later they finally have it staffed but it has cost them multiples more than it would have to just keep our group from the astanomical locums they had to pay. The geniuses running hospitals do **** like this all the time.
I learned many years ago that hospital administrators believed us to be fungible in every sense of the word. One of the refreshing things (being facetious now) about this turmoil is that we anesthesia clinicians are not so fungible after all.
 
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Just because it is logical to retain staff does not mean that happens. Look at what the hospitals did with nurses, they paid pie in the sky locums rates and did everything they could to get their experienced staff to leave except firing them. Now they still have to give raises and a huge pool of the nursing staff has no experience. Same goes for physicians--we had a hospital terminate our ICU contract in the middle of the covid pandemic and bring on a PE staffing company and the care there suffered so much the CT surgery and neurosurgery programs shut down to go to the hospital with a properly staffed ICU. Years later they finally have it staffed but it has cost them multiples more than it would have to just keep our group from the astanomical locums they had to pay. The geniuses running hospitals do **** like this all the time.
very similar thing happened with my group!
 
Just because it is logical to retain staff does not mean that happens. Look at what the hospitals did with nurses, they paid pie in the sky locums rates and did everything they could to get their experienced staff to leave except firing them. Now they still have to give raises and a huge pool of the nursing staff has no experience. Same goes for physicians--we had a hospital terminate our ICU contract in the middle of the covid pandemic and bring on a PE staffing company and the care there suffered so much the CT surgery and neurosurgery programs shut down to go to the hospital with a properly staffed ICU. Years later they finally have it staffed but it has cost them multiples more than it would have to just keep our group from the astanomical locums they had to pay. The geniuses running hospitals do **** like this all the time.
This is also true, it takes good leadership and knowledge of the market to realize that changes need to be made in how facilities approach their anesthesia providers so they can recruit and retain them. Just like any other business, the ones that do a good job will remain successful and the ones that continue with the old approach will continue to suffer .
 
I learned many years ago that hospital administrators believed us to be fungible in every sense of the word. One of the refreshing things (being facetious now) about this turmoil is that we anesthesia clinicians are not so fungible after all.
Until the last 1-2 years I would completely agree with this assessment.
 
Until the last 1-2 years I would completely agree with this assessment.


We are fungible but nowadays it may cost a LOT more to replace us than to retain us. I don’t know how long this will last but the demographics (of both our workforce and of the patient population) are in our favor.
 
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I learned many years ago that hospital administrators believed us to be fungible in every sense of the word. One of the refreshing things (being facetious now) about this turmoil is that we anesthesia clinicians are not so fungible after all.
As my career has started to require more administrative work I have learned that hospital administrators aren’t that smart or even accomplished. Look up their credentials, these are not the top of the top MBA grads, mostly career bureaucrats. Most of the ‘cabinet’-level administrators like COO and CNO are career clipboard nurses. They run meetings like bad dictatorships where there’s no debate and everything is rubber stamped. You would find much more talented leadership in pretty much any other American industry, including those much smaller and less well-paid.
 
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We are fungible but nowadays it may cost a LOT more to replace us than to retain us. I don’t know how long this will last but the demographics (of both our workforce and of the patient population) are in our favor.
That is the thing--it literally doesn't matter what the cost is to the admin. If it was about saving money then they wouldn't do stupid crap like lose all their staff and blow their entire covid wad on locums just to end up with massive staffing holes and a deveatated workforce with no pride in their employer. There is some nonsensical budgeting and metric wizardy that drives the upper levels in order to propel then to the next upper level. The ruins of whatever they leave behind doesn't matter to them.
 
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As my career has started to require more administrative work I have learned that hospital administrators aren’t that smart or even accomplished. Look up their credentials, these are not the top of the top MBA grads, mostly career bureaucrats. Most of the ‘cabinet’-level administrators like COO and CNO are career clipboard nurses. They run meetings like bad dictatorships where there’s no debate and everything is rubber stamped. You would find much more talented leadership in pretty much any other American industry, including those much smaller and less well-paid.
I'm not sure credentials matter much but the results definitely reflect the low tier of leadership that exists (though they seemingly get paid as much as a big 4 consulting partner). We worked in two different hospitals--the one that fired us had a CEO who didn't come to the ICU a single time during the onset of the pandemic, didn't join any of the emergency planning meetings, nothing--she decided to replace the ICU physician staffing with no coherent plan, lost the hospital's most lucrative surgical lines, then got promoted to go run the system at a regional level. The guy in the other hospital didn't get promoted but the CEO would visit the ICU daily and help prone people. That ICU lost almost none of their nurses despite the flat pay. He knew showing up and being there was what was needed and it worked. It coat him nothing but time to do and it was really inspiring.
 
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I'm not sure credentials matter much but the results definitely reflect the low tier of leadership that exists (though they seemingly get paid as much as a big 4 consulting partner). We worked in two different hospitals--the one that fired us had a CEO who didn't come to the ICU a single time during the onset of the pandemic, didn't join any of the emergency planning meetings, nothing--she decided to replace the ICU physician staffing with no coherent plan, lost the hospital's most lucrative surgical lines, then got promoted to go run the system at a regional level. The guy in the other hospital didn't get promoted but the CEO would visit the ICU daily and help prone people. That ICU lost almost none of their nurses despite the flat pay. He knew showing up and being there was what was needed and it worked. It coat him nothing but time to do and it was really inspiring.
That might have been a promotion that got her in a job with less direct power so it was harder for her to screw things up. You see that sort of thing sometimes.
 
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Someone asked earlier, but what do you think will be the actual ramifications for Envision anesthesiologists? Is this just more bad press for them that doesn't actually impact the day to day folks or could something more serious be coming? Or just wait and see next year?
 
Someone asked earlier, but what do you think will be the actual ramifications for Envision anesthesiologists? Is this just more bad press for them that doesn't actually impact the day to day folks or could something more serious be coming? Or just wait and see next year?
Most likely, Somebody else will be signing their paychecks. Whether things will get better or worse will depend on the local practice.
 
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Most likely, Somebody else will be signing their paychecks. Whether things will get better or worse will depend on the local practice.

Someone asked earlier, but what do you think will be the actual ramifications for Envision anesthesiologists? Is this just more bad press for them that doesn't actually impact the day to day folks or could something more serious be coming? Or just wait and see next year?

Maybe some sort of anesthesia “disruption” should happen. I am just not smart enough to think of a way. It was AMCs, then PEs, to whatever the next step is with hospitals now in the drivers seats. All of these changes are all good for making money/profit; none are good for anesthesiologists nor patients.
 
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Someone asked earlier, but what do you think will be the actual ramifications for Envision anesthesiologists? Is this just more bad press for them that doesn't actually impact the day to day folks or could something more serious be coming? Or just wait and see next year?
My bet would be hospitals try direct employment. The problem with destruction of private practice groups in every field has been that medicine is so complex that once the groups are gone, no one has the expertise or willingness to rebuild them from the ground up again when PE/corporations make their exit. This leads to direct employment more often than not by hospitals and large healthcare conglomerates
 
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Remember toys r us? This saga hasn’t ended.

 
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I used to work in a small community hospital. The ceo was caught on camera in the hospital doing it with a lower level executive. Shortly after, she got promoted, and he got hired as ceo of a larger, more glamorous hospital. It’s hard to believe any of these positions are merit based. The ship practically runs itself.

I'm not sure credentials matter much but the results definitely reflect the low tier of leadership that exists (though they seemingly get paid as much as a big 4 consulting partner). We worked in two different hospitals--the one that fired us had a CEO who didn't come to the ICU a single time during the onset of the pandemic, didn't join any of the emergency planning meetings, nothing--she decided to replace the ICU physician staffing with no coherent plan, lost the hospital's most lucrative surgical lines, then got promoted to go run the system at a regional level. The guy in the other hospital didn't get promoted but the CEO would visit the ICU daily and help prone people. That ICU lost almost none of their nurses despite the flat pay. He knew showing up and being there was what was needed and it worked. It coat him nothing but time to do and it was really inspiring.
 
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I used to work in a small community hospital. The ceo was caught on camera in the hospital doing it with a lower level executive. Shortly after, she got promoted, and he got hired as ceo of a larger, more glamorous hospital. It’s hard to believe any of these positions are merit based. The ship practically runs itself.
Good executives are worth their weight in gold though. YNHHS comes to mind- they had fantastic leadership and incredible employee satisfaction for the better part of two decades largely owing to great leadership. When those leaders transitioned out last year, the entire operation went from printing black to bleeding red with the first layoffs in the history of the system and employee satisfaction rapidly declining. I've seen good and bad leadership over the years, with most hospitals leaning more towards the bad side of things and good being a rarity that pays enormous dividends
 
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I used to work in a small community hospital. The ceo was caught on camera in the hospital doing it with a lower level executive. Shortly after, she got promoted, and he got hired as ceo of a larger, more glamorous hospital. It’s hard to believe any of these positions are merit based. The ship practically runs itself.
Physician executives are often pretty bad too. Many seem to ride the same train the non physician execs do.

At the major university hospital where I did residency they promoted a bunch of men (ALL men) to leadership roles based on their time at the place, bro-down-ness, and doucheiness. Several of them got sued for shocking levels of sexual harassment and the university tried to silence the accusers. The CMO told a midlevel that to get promoted she had to blow him regularly, for example. Disgusting.

Even worse, they all took golden hot air balloons into even higher leadership positions at other hospitals.

It’s all to say that once you get a couple levels above the rank and file healthcare workers, a whole slew of bad behavior is tolerated and celebrated. Financially ruining hospitals and blaming the healthcare workers is just one of those tolerated behaviors, sadly. We’re just widgets to them because we let it happen.
 
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Even the leanest of MD-only private practices are facing existential headwinds. Insurance companies have become increasingly emboldened, for example pushing back hard on a measly 3% increase after keeping reimbursement flat for the past 5-10 years.

I think within the next decade our field will be predominantly hospital employed, or have some sort of employment setup similar to Kaiser physicians.
Cms is cutting by another 8 percent
 
Just because it is logical to retain staff does not mean that happens. Look at what the hospitals did with nurses, they paid pie in the sky locums rates and did everything they could to get their experienced staff to leave except firing them. Now they still have to give raises and a huge pool of the nursing staff has no experience. Same goes for physicians--we had a hospital terminate our ICU contract in the middle of the covid pandemic and bring on a PE staffing company and the care there suffered so much the CT surgery and neurosurgery programs shut down to go to the hospital with a properly staffed ICU. Years later they finally have it staffed but it has cost them multiples more than it would have to just keep our group from the astanomical locums they had to pay. The geniuses running hospitals do **** like this all the time.
They just write off losses anyway
 
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I think within the next decade our field will be predominantly hospital employed, or have some sort of employment setup similar to Kaiser physicians.
Sure, I'll buy that. The only problem is that anesthesia practice is a money loser.
The people who came before us by 20 years made more than we make: 20 years ago. IN todays dollars.
Its only a matter of time where the hospitals dont want any part of it either. Then what? Then we will have to come to the realization that reimbursements HAVE to increase. The system does not have any more slack to give.
 
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The few scenarios that will happen will be that
1) the hospital direct employs or some sort of hospital system employs but at a salary that most of us will pinch our nose at even if they defend "the work hours"and "the benefits package"
2) employment with a large multi-specialty physicians group that contracts with a hospital
3) employ with another AMC that continues to cycle (everyone gets their turn)

The independent private practices survive by being as off the hospital's books as possible and keeping minimal disruptions in the OR, even if that's easier said than done.
 
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"the benefits package"
I always enjoy when these places tout the benefits package like they’re somehow exceptional. At my academic shop for example they claim they “match 10%” till you realize it’s got a 5 year vesting and they match 10% that ends at 250K, plus oops last two years the hospital was strapped so they contributed nothing. And everyone says “oh but the benefits are really good”.

If these places want to celebrate benefits they ought to be giving law firm or PE partner level benefits like a fully maxed out 401k, a deferred cash benefit plan, and free platinum level insurance (those jobs are our peer level after all). But then of course that kind of benefit only exists in true private practices where you you’re own boss and pay yourself that way. Or I suppose hospital execs get that stuff too.
 
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I always enjoy when these places tout the benefits package like they’re somehow exceptional. At my academic shop for example they claim they “match 10%” till you realize it’s got a 5 year vesting and they match 10% that ends at 250K, plus oops last two years the hospital was strapped so they contributed nothing. And everyone says “oh but the benefits are really good”.

If these places want to celebrate benefits they ought to be giving law firm or PE partner level benefits like a fully maxed out 401k, a deferred cash benefit plan, and free platinum level insurance (those jobs are our peer level after all). But then of course that kind of benefit only exists in true private practices where you you’re own boss and pay yourself that way. Or I suppose hospital execs get that stuff too.
Up front I'll say that I agree with you. Many of, at least the places that come to my mind, that don't do it I imagine can't honestly afford to or don't need to based on where the practice located or some combination of both.
 
That’s pretty interesting as a C rating is the lowest rating that they can give. It basically means using your stock certificates as fire starters and toilet paper would represent a better use than sitting in the safe.
Nobody will touch them with a 10 foot pole for anything now, and before really.
As noted, it’s a good opportunity for others. Other PE getting in at pennies on the dollar, hospital takeovers of the groups, new PP ventures.
 
I always enjoy when these places tout the benefits package like they’re somehow exceptional. At my academic shop for example they claim they “match 10%” till you realize it’s got a 5 year vesting and they match 10% that ends at 250K, plus oops last two years the hospital was strapped so they contributed nothing. And everyone says “oh but the benefits are really good”.

If these places want to celebrate benefits they ought to be giving law firm or PE partner level benefits like a fully maxed out 401k, a deferred cash benefit plan, and free platinum level insurance (those jobs are our peer level after all). But then of course that kind of benefit only exists in true private practices where you you’re own boss and pay yourself that way. Or I suppose hospital execs get that stuff too.
not sure how those jobs are our peer level... law firm/PE partners make many times doctors make, without the loans.
Up front I'll say that I agree with you. Many of, at least the places that come to my mind, that don't do it I imagine can't honestly afford to or don't need to based on where the practice located or some combination of both.
 
Someone asked earlier, but what do you think will be the actual ramifications for Envision anesthesiologists? Is this just more bad press for them that doesn't actually impact the day to day folks or could something more serious be coming? Or just wait and see next year?
I work for envision and know upper level leadership. In a market with reduced anesthesia supply envision has a large number of personnel. That means they have the leverage to successfully negotiate subsidies or they can just sell the non competes of personnel they have in failing markets. Either way the companies that successfully negotiate subsidies as the ones that will survive.
 
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