Exhausting Post 9/11 GIB, STEM Extension Question

[BullDoc2110]

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Hey everyone. I appreciate all of the valuable information on this forum. I am a previous HPSP recipient who is now using my post-9/11 GI Bill for BAH during my PM&R residency. I'm currently in my last year as a PGY-4 and will have 1 month of post-9/11 remaining when I finish this year. Due to my separation date of 31Jul I could not receive benefits for that month.

Next year I will be completing a 1 year ACGME fellowship in pain medicine and will most likely be staying at the same institution (pending what happens on match day next month). Would my best route be to apply for the Edith Rogers STEM Extension to receive 9 additional months of benefits? I assume I will need to exhaust that last month of my post-9/11 before being eligible. I am also VA rated at 50%. Would VR&E provide more benefit (reimbursement of board exam, etc)? TIA for your help!

 

[xffan624]

You could try applying for STEM extension. I'm not sure you'll get approved. I applied several years ago when the VA first started the program and got told that medical residencies didn't qualify for it because they weren't an undergraduate program. It was a pretty absurd statement considering the original bill listed 10+ pages of all the possible medical residencies that would be STEM programs. I sent this document to the VA, highlighting my specific specialty and making this argument in an appeal and still got denied for another Catch-22 like argument. As I already had a residency salary and the GI Bill stuff was just extra money for a couple more months, I gave up at that point.

A later amendment to the STEM extension bill clarified that medical school and residency did qualify. Hopefully this will be enough to get you approved. If you're staying at the same institution then that makes it easier to get your certifying official to submit everything needed. For me that was the most challenging part of using the GI Bill during residency as it's just not something that they deal with a lot. If someone has more recent experience with applying for STEM and residency or has had success in doing so, I definitely would welcome some updates

Re: VR&E, it's an employment program for disabled veterans. I think they would view your fellowship as a job and a defined career path. It seems unlikely you would be approved for this and I'm guessing whatever assistance provided would not be extra stipend money to supplement your fellowship salary (unless it's unpaid or something).

 

[MusicDOc124]

Hey everyone. I appreciate all of the valuable information on this forum. I am a previous HPSP recipient who is now using my post-9/11 GI Bill for BAH during my PM&R residency. I'm currently in my last year as a PGY-4 and will have 1 month of post-9/11 remaining when I finish this year. Due to my separation date of 31Jul I could not receive benefits for that month.

Next year I will be completing a 1 year ACGME fellowship in pain medicine and will most likely be staying at the same institution (pending what happens on match day next month). Would my best route be to apply for the Edith Rogers STEM Extension to receive 9 additional months of benefits? I assume I will need to exhaust that last month of my post-9/11 before being eligible. I am also VA rated at 50%. Would VR&E provide more benefit (reimbursement of board exam, etc)? TIA for your help!

If you're not already on VR&E, while theoretically possible to get on it while in residency, it would be exceedingly difficult. Few people seem to have gotten residency covered, so it's possible (and within the laws and regulations for it to be), but all who did who I'm aware of were approved to become a physician through VR&E beginning with the actually schooling in which residency was basically added to the plan later. I only know one person personally who applied for VR&E as a resident and was denied (and this was through an office where multiple veterans were on VR&E in residency over the previous couple years, with a really good staff which is nearly unheard of for VR&E). Because they may view having a license already as being employable, and especially because you'll be graduating residency which is essentially the base-require for employment these days anyway, fellowship would unlikely be covered as you're eligible to practice as an attending otherwise.

 

[BC_89]

Next year I will be completing a 1 year ACGME fellowship in pain medicine and will most likely be staying at the same institution (pending what happens on match day next month). Would my best route be to apply for the Edith Rogers STEM Extension to receive 9 additional months of benefits? I assume I will need to exhaust that last month of my post-9/11 before being eligible.

You're correct in that you'd be eligible to being considered for the Edith Rogers STEM Extension (up to $30,000 maximum) since you have 6 months or less remaining on your current Chapter 33 (Post 9/11) GI Bill benefits. I will echo what others have stated and that is (by definition), certain residencies and fellowships do qualify for this scholarship, however it is up to interpretation of the individual looking at your case PLUS scholarship preferences that are based on an additional factor:

1) A veteran that requires the most credit hours compared to other applicants

Since this is for a fellowship, you'd be compared to other veterans that easily need the scholarship for more credit hours and training. There is an arbitrary amount that is approved every year (unknown to us since it cannot be looked up) and it really boils down to "more needy" applicants. They'll take a look at your history and experience and immediately think "doctor that wants to specialize" and kick you to the back of the line. However, depending on the time of year and budget, and the fact that fellowships and residencies are indeed covered/qualify, I say go ahead and apply and see what happens. I have yet to see anyone get approved for residencies/fellowships, but maybe as time goes on more and more approvals may push through (although in theory it may not be the case, but this is so new compared to other benefits that it's still worth applying).

I am also VA rated at 50%. Would VR&E provide more benefit (reimbursement of board exam, etc)?

So by technicality, you would once again qualify to apply for VR&E. I'll just go ahead and tell you that you have a better shot getting Edith Rogers STEM scholarship approval than VR&E. As mentioned, this is an employee program and is meant to help veterans get training/certificate/degrees based on "entry level employment." Seeing your credentials, it can easily be seen as a doctor who could (in their mind) go out into the work place but is instead choosing to become more specialized. Since VR&E is all about cost plus "entry level employment", your case would unfortunately be a hard sale. I had to try 3 separate times to get approval for pharmacy school, and even then it was a lot of paperwork and meetings justifications...

Don't be discouraged, but do come into this with an open mind that although you qualify to apply, you will most likely be placed at the back of the line (or not at all). If you have to use your energy, place it towards the Edith Rogers STEM scholarship and see what happens from there.

 

[Just Call Me Doc]

I will echo what has been said above from my own personal experience. I applied for the STEM extension during general surgery residency and it actually took a couple years but was finally able to get it approved. It just takes persistence and a responsive GME coordinator (mine was a little less responsive so may be one reason it took awhile). I had the same issue initially regarding it not being an undergraduate program but I was able to get through that after a couple re-applications. I also had the issue of getting my program accepted as an approved program by the VA. All in all it took about 3-4 application submissions and a lot of back and forth between me and the GME coordinator and the VA. Finally got approved though.
I also became eligible for disability during residency so applied for VR&E. That got shot down pretty hard and fast given that while it is still a "training program", we are technically employed and getting paid by the hospital. I don't know if persistence would have paid off for that benefit but given the response I felt like the chances were too slim to be worth the effort. I imagine a fellowship would even be harder to justify. All the residents I know with VR&E had it approved while they were in medical school.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I will echo what has been said above from my own personal experience. I applied for the STEM extension during general surgery residency and it actually took a couple years but was finally able to get it approved. It just takes persistence and a responsive GME coordinator (mine was a little less responsive so may be one reason it took awhile). I had the same issue initially regarding it not being an undergraduate program but I was able to get through that after a couple re-applications. I also had the issue of getting my program accepted as an approved program by the VA. All in all it took about 3-4 application submissions and a lot of back and forth between me and the GME coordinator and the VA. Finally got approved though.
I also became eligible for disability during residency so applied for VR&E. That got shot down pretty hard and fast given that while it is still a "training program", we are technically employed and getting paid by the hospital. I don't know if persistence would have paid off for that benefit but given the response I felt like the chances were too slim to be worth the effort. I imagine a fellowship would even be harder to justify. All the residents I know with VR&E had it approved while they were in medical school.

Persistence may have paid off! Residency isn’t employment. The payments are via a stipend, not salary, which are paid for different reasons - salary for time or work, stipend to offset costs incurred during training, unrelated to time or work. And residency is specifically listed in the 38 CFR as being a covered program type. Fellowships are not listed like residency is and would be a harder sell since by nature, one would be board-eligible if not already certified in the primary specialty. But theoretically possible still.

 

[BC_89]

I applied for the STEM extension during general surgery residency and it actually took a couple years but was finally able to get it approved. It just takes persistence and a responsive GME coordinator (mine was a little less responsive so may be one reason it took awhile). I had the same issue initially regarding it not being an undergraduate program but I was able to get through that after a couple re-applications. I also had the issue of getting my program accepted as an approved program by the VA. All in all it took about 3-4 application submissions and a lot of back and forth between me and the GME coordinator and the VA. Finally got approved though.

At least for me, you're the first person I've heard of getting that approval for the STEM extension for residency training (which is great to here)! Residency is clearly covered and detailed when you look up the different codes from there published list. Makes me wonder if many folks are not up to date with the changes of the scholarship program (therefore don't apply) or perhaps enough veterans are giving push back for residency training programs that they're opening up and taking more and more candidates into consideration (and of course not tracking there budget and spending, just like what is happening with the VA's budget cut for this fiscal year).

Thanks for sharing!

 

[BullDoc2110]

I appreciate everyone's insight! I matched at my home institution for fellowship which will be helpful as my GME coordinator is very responsive and helpful. I'll plan on applying for the STEM extension once I hit the 6th month remaining mark for my GIB and keep everyone posted with my progress.

 

[BullDoc2110]

Update: I received the STEM scholarship for fellowship!

 

[rpduprey]

Yes people you can use it for residency and fellowship. Just flipping apply.