Experiences in other medical schools?

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IMApplicant18 said:
4) WSU is a new program in an undesirable location filled with FMGs.
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FYI, University of Iowa (a very reputable neurology program) filled 6 of its 8 positions this year with FMGs (all of them are extremely highly qualified. one of them has 100 publications!!!). More than half of the residents at UAB (another top notch neurology program) are FMGs. The list goes on and on.
 
IMApplicant18 said:
Despite you winning your appeal and getting a passing grade - your (real) deficiencies led to other red flags that resulted in your poor match?

How do I know Wright State is a ****ty program? I had a friend who barely passed med school + near failing board scores + failed CS. He got interviews (and ultimately matched) to top Neurology programs that we IM applicants who had above average record could have only dreamed of.

He interviewed at programs like Brown, Baylor, Indiana, various Cali programs that none of us even top quartile students with 250/260 board scores got...
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I'm not sure why you're randomly preaching about IM here. Also, if you didn't get those places you listed in IM with a 250/260 from a US MD school, maybe your application has deficiencies too... I know people with far lower scores from a low tier MD program getting those.
 
IMApplicant18 said:
Ah-HA! I knew WSU would be towards bottom of your list - and you confirm not only so but you ranked it DEAD LAST. There - at least for a period of time - you are in agreement with me that WSU is not ideal to train in.

Also - how many programs did you rank in total? Vast majority of US MD match in their top 3 choices - more so for lesser competitive specialties. You *MUST* had other issues to be this statistical anomaly of matching dead last in a least competitive specialty. For gods sake - people who had to REPEAT a year due to failures match down the middle of their rank list (of all academic residencies) for IM.

Going back to your original post - you probably DID have deficiencies in your performance -even though you Passed that particular unit, your weakness manifested in other part of your application which resulted in a catastrophic outcome on match day.
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You're not contributing anything useful to this thread. Please leave

Btw all, this is the same user who sent holiday cards to PDs of programs he interviewed at
 
Prestige definitely have no relation to quality of training. Baylor is a well known highly malignant Neurology program that I ranked in the bottom of my list.

Some of the best / most desirable Neurology programs are ones that is lesser known - a gem that not only train you to be a competent neurologist but also gives you excellent didactics and work life balance. Wright State is probably one of those gems - especially if your inpatient service is consult only.

Finally Neurology is NOT easy to match into. The field values commitment over all else. High IMG match rate means the PDs do not discriminate against foreign grads - not bc the programs do not fill. Iowa, UAB, UWisconsin, Case Western are elite programs that is >60% foreign grad by CHOICE.
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
Prestige definitely have no relation to quality of training. Baylor is a well known highly malignant Neurology program that I ranked in the bottom of my list.

Some of the best / most desirable Neurology programs are ones that is lesser known - a gem that not only train you to be a competent neurologist but also gives you excellent didactics and work life balance. Wright State is probably one of those gems - especially if your inpatient service is consult only.

Finally Neurology is NOT easy to match into. The field values commitment over all else. High IMG match rate means the PDs do not discriminate against foreign grads - not bc the programs do not fill. Iowa, UAB, UWisconsin, Case Western are elite programs that is >60% foreign grad by CHOICE.
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Sure.
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
Prestige definitely have no relation to quality of training. Baylor is a well known highly malignant Neurology program that I ranked in the bottom of my list.

Some of the best / most desirable Neurology programs are ones that is lesser known - a gem that not only train you to be a competent neurologist but also gives you excellent didactics and work life balance. Wright State is probably one of those gems - especially if your inpatient service is consult only.

Finally Neurology is NOT easy to match into. The field values commitment over all else. High IMG match rate means the PDs do not discriminate against foreign grads - not bc the programs do not fill. Iowa, UAB, UWisconsin, Case Western are elite programs that is >60% foreign grad by CHOICE.
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+1. Baylor was at the bottom of my rank list a few years ago for the same reasons. In fact, that was the one program I was actually considering not to rank at all.

I would say that neurology is easier to match into SOMEWHERE than some other specialties but probably no different than IM in that regard. However, as the above poster mentioned, the main thing that neuro programs look for is commitment...you can't BS your way into a decent neuro program. And rightfully so - neuro is a unique field that you have to be obsessed with in order to succeed!
 
curiousneuro said:
+1. Baylor was at the bottom of my rank list a few years ago for the same reasons. In fact, that was the one program I was actually considering not to rank at all.

I would say that neurology is easier to match into SOMEWHERE than some other specialties but probably no different than IM in that regard. However, as the above poster mentioned, the main thing that neuro programs look for is commitment...you can't BS your way into a decent neuro program. And rightfully so - neuro is a unique field that you have to be obsessed with in order to succeed!
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I would even argue Neuro as a whole is more competitive than IM. Most neuro programs are university based and I would think standards are higher than Most IM programs that are community based.
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
I would even argue Neuro as a whole is more competitive than IM. Most neuro programs are university based and I would think standards are higher than Most IM programs that are community-based.
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I think if you are trying to match ANYWHERE, you probably have a better shot with IM due to the fact there are many, many more community-based programs...and if you aren't really interested in neuro, they'll figure it out during your interview and you likely won't match there. Fit and interest are key to neuro interviews.

However, the competitiveness in high-tier programs is probably similar between the two fields, in the sense that you gotta have a great application on paper (scores, LORs, etc.) to even be afforded an interview.
 
curiousneuro said:
I think if you are trying to match ANYWHERE, you probably have a better shot with IM due to the fact there are many, many more community-based programs...and if you aren't really interested in neuro, they'll figure it out during your interview and you likely won't match there. Fit and interest are key to neuro interviews.

However, the competitiveness in high-tier programs is probably similar between the two fields, in the sense that you gotta have a great application on paper (scores, LORs, etc.) to even be afforded an interview.
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One key aspect that makes Neuro more competitive is that - we US seniors - have to compete against very qualified IMGs who had years to study for boards and neuro specific research. Neurology is unique that no preference is given to US students - so we are competing against a much much bigger pool of applicants.


Let me give you an example:

Candidate A: 2015 Graduate of XXX medical school in India. 250/250/Pass. Research associate in a neuroscience lab for 2 years - 2 first author publication in neuroscience journal. Paid for and done 5 observerships and SubIs across the country - obtained 4 Neuro-specific LORs.


Candidate B: Current senior at a US MD school. 220/230/Pass. One poster at a regional conference about Parkinson's disease. Only one Neuro LOR from a 4th year elective in August.


For any other specialty - Candidate B will be chosen over A due to being a US grad. For neurology 100% of PDs will give the spot to Candidate A with no preference for US graduate.
 
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NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
One key aspect that makes Neuro more competitive is that - we US seniors - have to compete against very qualified IMGs who had years to study for boards and neuro specific research. Neurology is unique that no preference is given to US students - so we are competing against a much much bigger pool of applicants.
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Couldn't the same be said for almost any specialty though?...I haven't looked at the charting outcomes lately but I feel like every IMG wanting to do a certain specialty has time to do specialty related research and study for boards..
 
Chibucks15 said:
Couldn't the same be said for almost any specialty though?...I haven't looked at the charting outcomes lately but I feel like every IMG wanting to do a certain specialty has time to do specialty related research and study for boards..
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Let me give you an example:

Candidate A: 2015 Graduate of XXX medical school in India. 250/250/Pass. Research associate in a neuroscience lab for 2 years - 2 first author publication in neuroscience journal. Paid for and done 5 observerships and SubIs across the country - obtained 4 Neuro-specific LORs.


Candidate B: Current senior at a US MD school. 220/230/Pass. One poster at a regional conference about Parkinson's disease. Only one Neuro LOR from a 4th year elective in August.


For any other specialty - Candidate B will be chosen over A due to being a US grad. For neurology 100% of PDs will give the spot to Candidate A with no preference for USgraduate.
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
Let me give you an example:

Candidate A: 2015 Graduate of XXX medical school in India. 250/250/Pass. Research associate in a neuroscience lab for 2 years - 2 first author publication in neuroscience journal. Paid for and done 5 observerships and SubIs across the country - obtained 4 Neuro-specific LORs.


Candidate B: Current senior at a US MD school. 220/230/Pass. One poster at a regional conference about Parkinson's disease. Only one Neuro LOR from a 4th year elective in August.


For any other specialty - Candidate B will be chosen over A due to being a US grad. For neurology 100% of PDs will give the spot to Candidate A with no preference for USgraduate.
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Give it a rest. You dont have to justify your specialty choice based on competitiveness. Neurology is objectively less competitive than IM based on step score. But who cares about competitiveness? It is your career you do what you want to do rather than some numerical basis of competitiveness.
upload_2018-4-24_14-51-11.png
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
Let me give you an example:

Candidate A: 2015 Graduate of XXX medical school in India. 250/250/Pass. Research associate in a neuroscience lab for 2 years - 2 first author publication in neuroscience journal. Paid for and done 5 observerships and SubIs across the country - obtained 4 Neuro-specific LORs.


Candidate B: Current senior at a US MD school. 220/230/Pass. One poster at a regional conference about Parkinson's disease. Only one Neuro LOR from a 4th year elective in August.


For any other specialty - Candidate B will be chosen over A due to being a US grad. For neurology 100% of PDs will give the spot to Candidate A with no preference for USgraduate.
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I mean you're picking a rockstar who would beat out almost everyone in any specialty...

Basically my statement was more asking why neuro seems to have no preference when the IMG from India you mentioned would beat out most US seniors in literally any specialty. That resume you mentioned is top 0.0001% of anyone applying so I don't think its a fully accurate assessment honestly. With that logic every IMG who has years to study and do research and such would have an application just like that

I don't doubt that neuro has less bias than others (like I said I havent looked at outcomes recently) but any program would be idiotic for not taking that IMG
 
I agree with the above. My experience during this match season made me realize how unbiased neurology is when it comes to FMGs and DOs. Most of my DO and FMG friends got their top picks. Seems to me that neuro PDs want the top of the crop regardless of pedigree.
 
libertyyne said:
Give it a rest. You dont have to justify your specialty choice based on competitiveness. Neurology is objectively less competitive than IM based on step score. But who cares about competitiveness? It is your career you do what you want to do rather than some numerical basis of competitiveness.
View attachment 232619
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Yeah... Only 12 US MD seniors did not match neuro in 2016... 1/2 of them probably had board failures and the other 1/2 might have had major professionalism issues. Neuro is NOT competitive...
 
Chibucks15 said:
I mean you're picking a rockstar who would beat out almost everyone in any specialty...

Basically my statement was more asking why neuro seems to have no preference when the IMG from India you mentioned would beat out most US seniors in literally any specialty. That resume you mentioned is top 0.0001% of anyone applying so I don't think its a fully accurate assessment honestly. With that logic every IMG who has years to study and do research and such would have an application just like that

I don't doubt that neuro has less bias than others (like I said I havent looked at outcomes recently) but any program would be idiotic for not taking that IMG
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Bc the IMG has a 3 year headstart to leisurely study for the boards, research, and opportunity to freely do as many rotations as he like. AMGs do not have such luxury of free time. Any medical grad with years of free time will pull 260+ on the boards by studying all the available resources and exams. Most PDs recognize this and thus heavy preference to AMGs.
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
Bc the IMG has a 3 year headstart to leisurely study for the boards, research, and opportunity to freely do as many rotations as he like. AMGs do not have such luxury of free time. Any medical grad with years of free time will pull 260+ on the boards by studying all the available resources and exams. Most PDs recognize this and thus heavy preference to AMGs.
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I'm not denying that they have extra time...but don't you think the entire profession would be flooded with IMGs with those stats then? And the IMG heavy preference I think is only from places like India where those doctors are pure badasses and deserve it. Some Caribbean grab ain't getting the same treatment with the same stats
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
Bc the IMG has a 3 year headstart to leisurely study for the boards, research, and opportunity to freely do as many rotations as he like. AMGs do not have such luxury of free time. Any medical grad with years of free time will pull 260+ on the boards by studying all the available resources and exams. Most PDs recognize this and thus heavy preference to AMGs.
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upload_2018-4-24_14-58-59.png

There were less than 5 non US IMGs with board scores in excess of 250 that matched the year that applied and matched into Neuro.
 
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Chibucks15 said:
I'm not denying that they have extra time...but don't you think the entire profession would be flooded with IMGs with those stats then? And the IMG heavy preference I think is only from places like India where those doctors are pure badasses and deserve it. Some Caribbean grab ain't getting the same treatment with the same stats
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Ah - Neurology is indeed flooded with IMGs from caribbean and India. Top Neuro programs this year all took IMGs while many of my US grad peers matched lowly.
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
Ah - Neurology is indeed flooded with IMGs from caribbean and India. Top Neuro programs this year all took IMGs while many of my US grad peers matched lowly.
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Interesting...I believe the India ones but those Caribbean must've been rockstars based on conventional knowledge. What can ya do. I'm just hoping for a spot
 
W19 said:
Nothing against neuro, but it not a competitive specialty overall.
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I agree with you and nothing in my statement implies that neuro is competitive overall. I was just making comparison to IM.
 
Ibn Alnafis MD said:
I agree with you and nothing in my statement implies that neuro is competitive overall. I was just making comparison to IM.
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I am not really sure about your prior post (#73) since the overwhelming majority neuro programs are university-based i.e. it's difficult to make a comparison... Regardless, a classmate with <210 step1 matched into a good university program.
 
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IMApplicant18 said:
Ah-HA! I knew WSU would be towards bottom of your list - and you confirm not only so but you ranked it DEAD LAST. There - at least for a period of time - you are in agreement with me that WSU is not ideal to train in.

Also - how many programs did you rank in total? Vast majority of US MD match in their top 3 choices - more so for lesser competitive specialties. You *MUST* had other issues to be this statistical anomaly of matching dead last in a least competitive specialty. For gods sake - people who had to REPEAT a year due to failures match down the middle of their rank list (of all academic residencies) for IM.

Going back to your original post - you probably DID have deficiencies in your performance -even though you Passed that particular unit, your weakness manifested in other part of your application which resulted in a catastrophic outcome on match day.
Click to expand...

If Wright State was really a horrible place to train in, I wouldn't have ranked it at all. I'm also not telling you any more information about my ROL because it has nothing to do with quality of training. There are many reasons why people rank some programs lower than others, training quality is only one of them. For me, it had to do with not only the program being "new" but also with wanting to be in a different place than what I'm familiar with (Dayton isn't a new city to me, I've been there many times as that's where my grandparents and extended family live). As I've said earlier, I did have a LoA for reasons unrelated to academics, I know one other person who also had a LoA for non-academic reasons and he/she ranked similarly low on his/her list (while also having Steps quite a bit higher than mine). This happens because programs are risk-averse and any hint of the possibility of your residency training being extended regardless of reasons will send them running.

Match day was by no means a "catastrophe" for me either since I managed to match without having to SOAP. There are some people who have had catastrophic outcomes (like, getting 1-2 interviews, then not matching, and then maybe not even SOAPing into a position) and matching in the initial match certainly isn't one of them!

Since you seem to enjoy prying so much at irrelevant information in awkward attempts to embarrass me, let me ask you - did you manage to match in IM? If so, where was that place on your ROL? Was it a community or more academic program? Not that I'm gonna be a dick and **** on you for it. 😉
 
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WedgeDawg said:
What is happening to this thread

We’ve gotten pretty far away from the initial issue and not for the better

Let’s try to adjust our trajectory
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Sorry man, kind of my fault for taking the troll's bait, I don't have much experience with them :/
 
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