Extenuating Circumstances at This Point in the Cycle?

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After an unspectacular undergrad (one I suspect would anger mrivera), I finally got my act together, finished strong, did great on the MCAT and in an SMP, and applied to med school.

I had hoped that a 38P and a 4.0 in a SMP would mitigate the undergraduate record more than it apparently has, but as the pre-interview rejections pile up, I'm finding this isn't the case. There were extenuating circumstances during my undergraduate career that I hadn't mentioned in my applications (long story short, I was uncomfortable discussing it, and I didn't want to give the appearance of shifting blame), but at this point, I don't want those things to affect my future twice.

Would it be pointless to update my application with this information now? I can't imagine it would hurt my application at most of the schools to which I've applied, and might even help. Thoughts?

 

[DendWrite]

My guess is that it would matter what sorts of extenuating circumstances they are. You have strong stats with the SMP. If the extenuating circumstances were something like you having to work throughout undergrad or something to support yourself, I think this would be good. If it was something like a mental health issue I'd be less eager to inform them. It's really hard for me to say without more information (and even then I'd probably not be the best to offer advice, as it's just my opinion, I'm not speaking from experience).

Anyhow, best of luck with the application process, and don't give up hope yet.

 

[nabeel76]

After an unspectacular undergrad (one I suspect would anger mrivera), I finally got my act together, finished strong, did great on the MCAT and in an SMP, and applied to med school.

I had hoped that a 38P and a 4.0 in a SMP would mitigate the undergraduate record more than it apparently has, but as the pre-interview rejections pile up, I'm finding this isn't the case. There were extenuating circumstances during my undergraduate career that I hadn't mentioned in my applications (long story short, I was uncomfortable discussing it, and I didn't want to give the appearance of shifting blame), but at this point, I don't want those things to affect my future twice.

Would it be pointless to update my application with this information now? I can't imagine it would hurt my application at most of the schools to which I've applied, and might even help. Thoughts?

Regardless of your reasons for why you undergrad GPA was lower than it should be, how low was it? I mean you got into an SMP program so it couldn't of been that low right? Correct me if I am wrong but those SMP programs only accept people that they feel they can eventually get into med school, as such your GPA could not have been all that low.

So therefore when you add a 4.0 SMP and a 38 MCAT you should get in somewhere if not at several different places?

Could it be something else in your app that is resulting in no interviews? How are your letters of rec or premed committee letter? If your GPA was below average in undergrad, it could very well be that the committee letter and / or LOR's are not that strong or even negative. Also hows the volunteering / shadowing and other EC's looking like?

 

[Ativanigans]

How low is low? With a 38 your GPA must have been realy low if you think that was the only thing holding you back from an interview invite.

 

[ahmcadams]

If you don't get in this cycle, consider discussing those circumstances during the next cycle's personal statement (depending on what they are). The time to broach those issues is in your initial written application, not later on after you haven't done that well in the cycle. I think it would be strange for an adcom to receive an update in the middle of the process that essentially said "Oh by the way, I wanted to let you know about things I had the opportunity to discuss earlier but decided not to until December." That doesn't mean those circumstances aren't important, just that bringing them up now probably won't do you much good.

 

[harvman11]

After an unspectacular undergrad (one I suspect would anger mrivera), I finally got my act together, finished strong, did great on the MCAT and in an SMP, and applied to med school.

what a troll...

First, take everything here with a grain of salt... none of us know your personal circumstances, so in the end it's up to you. However, my personal opinion is that if you've been getting rejections thus far, with no news otherwise, you should spend some time writing a update letter. If you want to include your story in there go ahead, but I would definitely advise doing something.

I know medical school is "a different beast", etc. etc., but I wrote a letter of interest to get into the undergrad program I wanted to (I was on the waitlist), and I feel like it was really my letter that got me in. Schools want to feel loved, so make sure it's at least somewhat personalized to each school. Make sure it's well written, maybe have your advisers, etc. look it over, and just lay yourself out. Whatever you do probably won't hurt you if you haven't heard anything as of yet.

 

[FIREitUP]

the OP is a fool. he has a 2.82 undergraduate GPA, but applies to mostly top schools. what do you expect?
i factored in your SMP 4.0 assuming it is 30 credits. your gpa is now 3.06; still low, especially for brown, mayo, georgetown, etc.

 

[Ativanigans]

Is this your school list? If so, you might have shown a little too much hubris...
Warren Alpert (Brown)
Tufts
Boston University
Yale
University of Michigan
Washington University in St. Louis
Dartmouth
Medical University of South Carolina
University of North Carolina
Mayo
University of Vermont
University of Rochester
Georgetown
Baylor
SUNY Stony Brook [Interview!!]
Duke

 

[Catalystik]

MUSC and UVermont could still come through if the application wasn't submitted late.

OP, I think a belated written explanation is unlikely to help you. What would have a chance of helping is a personal phone call to a dean of the med school from someone with a "name" acting as your advocate and giving this information/asking them to take a closer look at your application/offer you an interview.

 

[redsquareblack]

the OP is a fool. he has a 2.82 undergraduate GPA, but applies to mostly top schools. what do you expect?
i factored in your SMP 4.0 assuming it is 30 credits. your gpa is now 3.06; still low, especially for brown, mayo, georgetown, etc.

A fool? Of course not, but thank you anyway (despite knowing nothing about me).

Part of the problem stems from the well-intentioned (but misleading, as it turns out) advice from faculty at BU, one of whom assured me that I had little to worry about, despite having seen my prospective list of schools to which I planned on applying.

One of the major drawbacks of SMPs is that there is little in the way of data to effectively gauge one's chances at getting into medical schools, apart from anecdotes around these parts. My thinking revolved primarily around the idea that a 4.0 in a curriculum comprising medical school courses would be interpreted as a more direct measure of potential aptitude in future medical school courses.

The BUSM GMS office likes to post a list of schools to which former MAMS students have been admitted, and among them are all the schools to which I applied (with the exception of Yale). Given this information, it seems at least reasonable that I thought I might have a shot with a 4.0 in the program and a 38P on the MCAT.

This hypothesis turns out not to be particularly accurate, I am fully willing to concede. No need to call me a fool for it, though, especially considering I've also discussed my error in judgment at length on my blog. I'm not making a big secret of it, and it's entirely peripheral to the topic of this thread in any case.

 

[brooklynblunder]

Is this your school list? If so, you might have shown a little too much hubris...
Warren Alpert (Brown)
Tufts
Boston University
Yale
University of Michigan
Washington University in St. Louis
Dartmouth
Medical University of South Carolina
University of North Carolina
Mayo
University of Vermont
University of Rochester
Georgetown
Baylor
SUNY Stony Brook [Interview!!]
Duke

wow that's a terrible list, even for the 4.0 undergrad/40+ apps

i think post bac undergrad is the way to go with a low GPA in general


as far as the original question, I say go for it. regret less, although I don't think it will help at all.

 

[FIREitUP]

based on what I know about you so far, it seems that you make foolish assumptions about applying to medical school. considering this is your third time applying, I would assume someone with that much experience applying would cover his bases a little more, and not snub his nose at non-upper tier schools.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

I have read one some school websites that they do not look favorably upon applicants applying for the third time. If this really is your third time applying, and your list is so incredibly top-heavy, I'm not sure what advice to give you. Rarely have I told someone that they have no hope, but yours is waning. Have you had your SUNY interview yet? Have you heard back from them? That is your best shot. I think Catalystik gave you some good advice. You need to actually sit down with someone high up (or speak with them on the phone) and explain your story. With so many amazing applicants rejected at all of these schools every year, you need to have a damn good reason for even one of them to accept you with your undergrad GPA, despite your success in the SMP and on the MCAT.

 

[redsquareblack]

I have read one some school websites that they do not look favorably upon applicants applying for the third time. If this really is your third time applying, and your list is so incredibly top-heavy, I'm not sure what advice to give you. Rarely have I told someone that they have no hope, but yours is waning. Have you had your SUNY interview yet? Have you heard back from them? That is your best shot. I think Catalystik gave you some good advice. You need to actually sit down with someone high up (or speak with them on the phone) and explain your story. With so many amazing applicants rejected at all of these schools every year, you need to have a damn good reason for even one of them to accept you with your undergrad GPA, despite your success in the SMP and on the MCAT.

Yes, I've an interview at a SUNY school, and have already had my BU interview. Though of course nothing is certain, I feel cautiously confident wrt BU.

And FIRE, "making foolish assumptions" is different than being a fool. Additionally, to what foolish assumptions do you refer? I merely followed the guidance I was given by people whom I trusted (with good reason).

 

[redsquareblack]

Is this your school list? If so, you might have shown a little too much hubris...

Well, in retrospect, probably. But as I said before, I was assured that my list was realistic by an adcom member. In any event, it is what it is.

Had I the chance to start the cycle over now, of course I would choose differently. I'm not a fool - I admit when I've made a mistake, or a foolish decision, &c. Advice aside, it was both of these things to apply to the schools I did. But there is no template for med school admissions for a very-low UG GPA but very-high SMP GPA & MCAT, and it was not as clear cut as some would argue it is.

Anyone who thinks that I've not realized by now that I might have been reaching a bit too high might benefit from actually reading my blog, rather than just grabbing my list o' schools.

 

[Bernoull]

Add more schools!!!! Yes it's late, but you can still get invites. I suppose if you add 10 low-mid tiers, you may get ~2 invites. You don't have much to lose by going on this limp and it may save you reapplying next year...

Goodluck and stay hopeful!!!

 

[md2010hopeful]

I for one think that an unspectacular UG GPA from 4 years ago shouldn't tank your application if you have demonstrated in your SMP that you can handle med school coursework. Whether it will is obviously for adcoms to decide. I agree that your list is a bit top heavy but hey, so was mine. Med school is expensive and time consuming and I think that you should only apply to places you would love to attend and this process is such a crapshoot. If it were my 3rd time I might have aimed a little lower but I don't think you were foolish- just optimistic. Good luck- I have a feeling that this is your year!

 

[7starmantis]

Yeah I agree about adding more schools. While its very late its certainly not too late. I never understood the whole top tier schools only idea anyway. Sounds like you just need someone to let you in med school so you can excel, that might just be a school you view us a "lower school". Bottom line is an MD from a lower school is still an MD.

Good luck this cycle though! Its not over yet!

 

[JJMrK]

Hopefully one of those interviews turns into an acceptance, but if not apply more broadly and to more schools. Congrats on the MCAT.

 

[redsquareblack]

Hopefully one of those interviews turns into an acceptance, but if not apply more broadly and to more schools. Congrats on the MCAT.

Thanks. I've got my fingers crossed, though you can rest assured that, in addition to taking some more UG pre-reqs next semester "just in case", I'll also be broadening my applications next time (if needed).

As far as why I aimed upper tier, it's not that I think the didactic education is significantly different. It's true, an MD is an MD is an MD, however I must admit that I've been really impressed by the teaching philosophy of some of the upper-tier schools (eg, Yale & the importance of observation & physical exam in Dx).

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

awwww know whats funny when i first saw this thread title i thought it started with "Extending Circumcision...." I was about to start rambling about how its mutilation and immoral and blah blah blah but I guess this isn't the thread for that. darn.

 

[7starmantis]

I must admit that I've been really impressed by the teaching philosophy of some of the upper-tier schools (eg, Yale & the importance of observation & physical exam in Dx).

Dude I'm not trying to change your mind and everyone has to make their own decisions about which med school they attend and why. That being said I honestly believe schools try and push their curriculum and how they focus on this or that, but I really think there are much smaller differences than they let on. A good school will teach its students the importance of observation etc. These are not things which are exclusive to "top tier" schools or any school for that matter. I could be very wrong, but I really believe that if you are going to be a great doctor you will be a great doctor regardless of which (within reason) school you choose. You learn to be a doctor in your residency anyway.

Again, not trying to change your mind or anything, just some things I've come to believe throughout my apps, interviews, shadowing, etc.

 

[apumic]

Well, in retrospect, probably. But as I said before, I was assured that my list was realistic by an adcom member. In any event, it is what it is.

Had I the chance to start the cycle over now, of course I would choose differently. I'm not a fool - I admit when I've made a mistake, or a foolish decision, &c. Advice aside, it was both of these things to apply to the schools I did. But there is no template for med school admissions for a very-low UG GPA but very-high SMP GPA & MCAT, and it was not as clear cut as some would argue it is.

Anyone who thinks that I've not realized by now that I might have been reaching a bit too high might benefit from actually reading my blog, rather than just grabbing my list o' schools.

Why do you expect us to have all read your blog before responding?
Your low UG GPA (2.82?) is not simply wiped away by good performance in an SMP. They are, instead, taken together. Along with the 38, I would expect you would have been competitive at most mid- and lower-tier MD schools if this were your first time applying. Unfortunately, you are now apparently a 3rd-time reapplicant. That's going to raise some serious doubts, as you have now noticed. While I dislike the idea of calling a poster "a fool" or "a lost cause," to at least some degree your post kind of called those types of phrases upon you. For a 3rd time applicant, you made mistakes that I would expect a high schooler to make prior to talking with his HS guidance counselor, not a student applying to medical school for the 3rd time.

If you don't get in this year, it may be time to seriously reconsider career goals. If you simply cannot live with going to a "lesser" medical school, medicine may not be the right place for you. OTOH, if you're sure this is the right path, I'd consider talking with some DOs and get a DO letter. Maybe a DO school would be more forgiving about your UG GPA. Additionally, b/c they don't use AMCAS, DO schools would likely be unaware of the fact that you're a reapplicant (unless you told them).

Good luck!

 

[redsquareblack]

Why do you expect us to have all read your blog before responding?

I was specifically responding to the person who cribbed my school list from there, apumic.

Your low UG GPA (2.82?) is not simply wiped away by good performance in an SMP. They are, instead, taken together.

I understand that.

Along with the 38, I would expect you would have been competitive at most mid- and lower-tier MD schools if this were your first time applying. Unfortunately, you are now apparently a 3rd-time reapplicant. That's going to raise some serious doubts, as you have now noticed.

If I had applied to the same list of schools each time, then yes, you'd be right. But this is not necessarily true in general, and a school to which a person has only applied once only sees one application.

Additionally, the 3-app "rule" is a general wisdom sort of thing, not an absolute rule. If a person has applied three times, then it's unlikely that they've significantly improved their application, and thus their chances.

While I dislike the idea of calling a poster "a fool" or "a lost cause," to at least some degree your post kind of called those types of phrases upon you. For a 3rd time applicant, you made mistakes that I would expect a high schooler to make prior to talking with his HS guidance counselor, not a student applying to medical school for the 3rd time.

Such as...?

If you simply cannot live with going to a "lesser" medical school, medicine may not be the right place for you.

Never said that I couldn't live with a "lesser" med school. I acted on the advice of a faculty member with experience as an adcom member. Was it perhaps a misguided move? Sure.

Additionally, b/c they don't use AMCAS, DO schools would likely be unaware of the fact that you're a reapplicant (unless you told them).

Good luck!

Thanks for the luck, truly.

I'm not sure where the idea that a person's entire application history is viewable to every school. It's not, and a school to which I've only applied once has only one application.

Perhaps I should clarify: I feel relatively good about this cycle. My chances are fairly good at at least two schools (SMP school and state school), but obviously I would like more interviews in order to be a bit more comfortable. So I was merely asking advice wrt sending further information.

That's it.

 

[redsquareblack]

I honestly believe schools try and push their curriculum and how they focus on this or that, but I really think there are much smaller differences than they let on. A good school will teach its students the importance of observation etc. These are not things which are exclusive to "top tier" schools or any school for that matter. I could be very wrong, but I really believe that if you are going to be a great doctor you will be a great doctor regardless of which (within reason) school you choose. You learn to be a doctor in your residency anyway.

You're probably right about that. I'm freely willing to admit I might have pulled an Icarus here, based upon illusory benefits.

Again, not trying to change your mind or anything, just some things I've come to believe throughout my apps, interviews, shadowing, etc.

Thanks for that. I appreciate it.

 

[redsquareblack]

awwww know whats funny when i first saw this thread title i thought it started with "Extending Circumcision...." I was about to start rambling about how its mutilation and immoral and blah blah blah but I guess this isn't the thread for that. darn.

 

[searun]

OP, you are obviously bright, but if you do not get in this cycle, I would consider calling it a day and moving on with my life. A friend of mine got in on the third try, and is graduating from med school this year, but I am not sure that the fourth time is a charm. Hopefully, you will get in this year. If not, personally, I would cash in my poker chips. and chart a new direction for my life. That is the great thing about life. There are always new directions.