Increasingly more residency programs require an IMG to have hands-on USCE in order to even be eligible to apply. As far as I know, an IMG is not permitted hands-on patient contact unless one is already in residency. So what does this really mean?
Externship for an IMG (Myth?)
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Ignoring the second comment, it means that usually IMG's are expected to have done US clinical experience while still enrolled in medical school. Once you graduate, it is very difficult to get real clinical experience. You can sometimes get shadowing experiences, but not all programs will consider that adequate.
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A lot of companies apparently provide externship experience to IMG's. You have to pay for them though. There is a list of the companies providing them here. I was wondering if you comment on this?
http://www.usmle-forums.com/usce-clinical-rotations/1420-paid-externships-imgs.html
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There is a cardiology center in Detroit Michigan called Heart & Vascular Institute. They provide free externships in outpatient cardiology. The min duration is 2 months. The site is a fellowship training site and one of the docs there is head of cardiology at harper hospital and another is assistant PD of interventional fellowship at Wayne State. You will be expected to see patients and write in the patient charts via EMR. I rotated there and found the experience invaluable.
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Thank for the info on cardio externship. I'm an US-IMG, ECFMG certified looking for hands on clinical experience in and around MA. This seems pretty rare to find "FREE" externships.
Are there other like this around US? How would one go about searching for such opportunities online?
Are there other like this around US? How would one go about searching for such opportunities online?
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As someone with significant red flags, if you want to get an externship that might count for something, you shouldn't be picky about the location...
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Thank you! I agree!
What I was trying to say was externship options don't seem to be very common and if there was a way to find them. I have limited knowledge about where to find them but it appears that the one in Detroit might be the only one offering externships to IMGs for free. It's a big deal!
What I was trying to say was externship options don't seem to be very common and if there was a way to find them. I have limited knowledge about where to find them but it appears that the one in Detroit might be the only one offering externships to IMGs for free. It's a big deal!
As someone who has participated at the heart and vascular institute in Detroit in the past I can say that your experience depends on what you are looking for. As an FMG if you are looking to improve your English and history taking and note taking this is a great opportunity to learn. 2 months experience for free is a plus. The draw backs are that there is minimal teaching involved. You are basically cheap labor filling out pt notes for the docs. Although Dr. Elder, Taman, and Kaki are well known in the Detroit hospitals their letters don't hold a lot of weight in Michigan as programs are aware of the externship experience of students. In addition don't expect to get a letter until after the minimum of 2 months. Expect 730am - 5pm M-F. Again, if you are looking to fill a gap in the CV this may be for you. Otherwise don't expect much more from the HVI physicians. They will not take the time to get to know you or pull any connections to get you interviews, etc. Goodluck!
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I respectfully disagree. At this point in the game no one is going to spoon feed you. You have to go and actively find/create opportunities for yourself. It's easy to get complacent in the schedule of 9-5 and filling out the pt notes, but if you actively show interest and ask for case reports Dr. Elder will give you guidance. He will not give you a fully made pie but he will give you a hint and the rest is on you! That is all the time they can afford and it's up to you to work around their schedule... so if that means coming into the hospital at 8pm and waiting in the cath lab until 10pm to have a 5 minute conversation with him about your case report then so be it. Ultimately you have all the free time in the world, and your aim is to get impress these guys. You can't do that with knowledge because we really don't have that yet, but you may be able to do that with dedication and willingness to work hard.
it is true that the letters don't matter much in michigan. But if you work hard and impress them, they may elect to make phone calls for you! Don't get stuck doing the 9-5 with all the docs going in the pt room and filling out the note and thats it! You are there to impress the docs and learn. You got there because they need your help with the notes. So you have to find a way to do both! I did this by owning the pts that i was assigned and making sure that i knew the results and relayed them back to the doctor prior to him having to check. So if someone is getting a venous USG in the office. Ask to go watch the USG and then talk to the tech doing it and relay the results back to the doc. You just saved the doc 5 minutes of having to talk to the tech whilst also learning what the USG looks like whilst also showing that you want to learn whilst also showing that you own your pt! Then ask if any of the doctors have interesting case reports and keep asking. Ask to go watch a cath! Ask to go to morning rounds at DMC in patient cardiology floor. NETWORK AND FIND WAYS TO OPEN DOORS FOR YOURSELF!
Your experience here will be that of a pgy-1 intern doing an outpt cardiology rotation! That being said your experience will be based on what you put into it. If you go in there having studied cardiology and knowing the basics you will be better at writing your pt pland and having a discussion about the nuanced pt care as it applies to the individual pts. But, if you go in there asking what the basic management of heart failure is, well then no one is going to tell you because you need to go and read that in a book somewhere! That's on you!
I honestly attribute matching to working with Dr. Elder. Notice I did not say working at this clinic. I made it a point to get face to face time with Dr. Elder. Asked to follow him into the cath lab. asked to follow him across the various clinic sites. And I am sure that he made phone calls for me that helped tip the odds in my favor despite red flags in my app. Don't get stuck in your role of filling out pt notes. Pay attention and work hard!
it is true that the letters don't matter much in michigan. But if you work hard and impress them, they may elect to make phone calls for you! Don't get stuck doing the 9-5 with all the docs going in the pt room and filling out the note and thats it! You are there to impress the docs and learn. You got there because they need your help with the notes. So you have to find a way to do both! I did this by owning the pts that i was assigned and making sure that i knew the results and relayed them back to the doctor prior to him having to check. So if someone is getting a venous USG in the office. Ask to go watch the USG and then talk to the tech doing it and relay the results back to the doc. You just saved the doc 5 minutes of having to talk to the tech whilst also learning what the USG looks like whilst also showing that you want to learn whilst also showing that you own your pt! Then ask if any of the doctors have interesting case reports and keep asking. Ask to go watch a cath! Ask to go to morning rounds at DMC in patient cardiology floor. NETWORK AND FIND WAYS TO OPEN DOORS FOR YOURSELF!
Your experience here will be that of a pgy-1 intern doing an outpt cardiology rotation! That being said your experience will be based on what you put into it. If you go in there having studied cardiology and knowing the basics you will be better at writing your pt pland and having a discussion about the nuanced pt care as it applies to the individual pts. But, if you go in there asking what the basic management of heart failure is, well then no one is going to tell you because you need to go and read that in a book somewhere! That's on you!
I honestly attribute matching to working with Dr. Elder. Notice I did not say working at this clinic. I made it a point to get face to face time with Dr. Elder. Asked to follow him into the cath lab. asked to follow him across the various clinic sites. And I am sure that he made phone calls for me that helped tip the odds in my favor despite red flags in my app. Don't get stuck in your role of filling out pt notes. Pay attention and work hard!
