Externships, Preceptorships & Internships

[sadie0036]

Hello all!

I am a third year veterinary student stressing about scheduling externships and a preceptorship during my clinical year. I have a strong equine interest but I'm also interested in mixed animal practice.

My first concern is my dismal GPA (less than 3.0) and so I'm afraid equine internships after graduation are out of the question for me. I'm also concerned that if I do an externship at an equine practice in order to possibly apply for an internship at that practice it will be a waste of time. Many equine practices do not offer externs a hands-on experience. I do not want to waste my externship time observing if I'm not even going to be considered for an internship based on my GPA.

My second concern is what to do if I decide not to do an equine externship. I would like to get more spay/neuter experience. Are there externships that allow students to do surgeries?

My third concern is where to look for a preceptorship. Should I look for a practice that I want to possibly work for after graduation? I have a professor who says to go work at a practice your first year out that you do not intend to stay forever. This way you can learn and make mistakes without hurting your reputation.

Does anyone know if high NAVLE scores can make-up for a low GPA? I know that good recommendations from clinicians and professors are essential as well. Are there a lot of good vets out there who graduated with less than a 3.0? I'm just very embarrassed and disappointed by my GPA. I'm scared it is going to hinder my chances of finding the perfect job or an internship.

Any advice or thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[No Imagination]

I will tell you what I know, and someone can correct me if I am wrong; in no particular order.

1) Spay/Neuter: Hook up with a shelter vet! Easiest way. One guy I worked with (unofficial externship, did it on my time off) let me do +100 spays and neuters in the two weeks I was with him (honestly though, after the second day I felt like I should have been paid, it was a lot of work).

2) I don't know enough about equine internships, but from what I can gather, they may not be as competative as they once where. At my school, they keep (having to?) going overseas to get equine interns (the implication there may not have been very PC of me).

3) Externships --> Interships. If you have a low GPA, an externship is probably your best bet to land the internship that you want! Show them you are a very hard worker (even if you are just watching, get their first thing in the morning and put in a 12 hour day... (god knows you will as an equine intern). Show them you can work 70+ hours a week with no complaining, no pay, and no/little motivation; and they might notice you have all the hallmarks of a good equine intern.

4) NAVLE Scores... don't think so. A) your scores will not be back in time before the match deadline. B) NAVLE is a waste of time and little indicator of your abilities (other then spitting out memorized information). You get 1 minute and 10 seconds per question on the NAVLE... they are not looking for deductive reasoning or careful analysis of the problem, but your ability to see 2-3 key words and regurgitate the right subjective answer (not really what makes a good clinician). Therefore, AFAIK, no one puts any stock in a NAVLE score, and I don't even think it is typically asked for (someone correct me if I am wrong on that one).

5) "I have a professor who says to go work at a practice your first year out that you do not intend to stay forever. This way you can learn and make mistakes without hurting your reputation." Thats great advice... if you were graduating 20 years ago. You know that thing that Al Gore invented... its 'a series of tubes'.

6) GPA Sucks... Some places live and die by the GPA (all GPA's < 3.6 go in the circular bin). Other places like to know the person, is this person someone they will want to work with. For those places, an externship is the way to go.

Sorry, tl;dr version (without NAVLE to study for, I am kinda bored):

Do externships at places you want to intern at. Work for a shelter vet and get your spays down to <10 minutes each. Worry about passing NAVLE, not aceing.

 

[nyanko]

NAVLE is a waste of time and little indicator of your abilities (other then spitting out memorized information).

And this is different from GPA during the first two years of vet school how?

 

[No Imagination]

And this is different from GPA during the first two years of vet school how?

qft

 

[FutureDVM98]

Hello all!

I am a third year veterinary student stressing about scheduling externships and a preceptorship during my clinical year. I have a strong equine interest but I'm also interested in mixed animal practice.

My first concern is my dismal GPA (less than 3.0) and so I'm afraid equine internships after graduation are out of the question for me. I'm also concerned that if I do an externship at an equine practice in order to possibly apply for an internship at that practice it will be a waste of time. Many equine practices do not offer externs a hands-on experience. I do not want to waste my externship time observing if I'm not even going to be considered for an internship based on my GPA.

My second concern is what to do if I decide not to do an equine externship. I would like to get more spay/neuter experience. Are there externships that allow students to do surgeries?

My third concern is where to look for a preceptorship. Should I look for a practice that I want to possibly work for after graduation? I have a professor who says to go work at a practice your first year out that you do not intend to stay forever. This way you can learn and make mistakes without hurting your reputation.

Does anyone know if high NAVLE scores can make-up for a low GPA? I know that good recommendations from clinicians and professors are essential as well. Are there a lot of good vets out there who graduated with less than a 3.0? I'm just very embarrassed and disappointed by my GPA. I'm scared it is going to hinder my chances of finding the perfect job or an internship.

Any advice or thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

Mississippi State CVM will begin offering an externship at the beginning of the year for our Shelter Spay and Neuter Program. You will gain a huge amount of experience. The website is www.cvm.msstate.edu. Check it out. I know that you will definitely love it if you really want to gain more surgical experience.

 

[Elliott Garber]

I would check out Rural Area Veterinary Services for great spay/neuter training as a vet student. I did two trips while I was in school and was much more confident with my surgical skills as a result.

http://www.ruralareavet.org/

 

[jglovicz]

If you are interested in equine practice, schedule externships at your top choices. It is far more important to be a hard worker at an externship than to have a stellar GPA. The practices know that they can teach you what you need to know...they want to know that you will be a hard worker and will get along with the rest of the staff. It is exhausting to do the externships, but it is well worth it. I spent all of my vacation and preceptorship time away from home. I honestly know of a few students who were offered the internship after their externship (even before academic transcripts are in). I also know of students that are not "good students" that have gotten internships. Also, I don't know of any equine practices that go through the Match. Look on AAEP Avenues for deadlines. Most internship applications are due in October (if you enter through the match, you will only be able t apply to academic equine positions).

NAVLE scores don't really matter for anything (I don't think). As long as you pass, no one will ever ask you how you did.

Spay/neuter - I spent a block at a wonderful shelter and got plenty of spay/neuter experience

I hope this helps! Good luck

 

[aretoo]

2) I don't know enough about equine internships, but from what I can gather, they may not be as competative as they once where. At my school, they keep (having to?) going overseas to get equine interns (the implication there may not have been very PC of me).

This may be the case for some academic programs (at my school, our LA interns are frequently from non-North American countries as well) but it is certainly not the case for private practices and not for all academic programs either. Having just gone through the equine externship/internship application process, I have to say that many programs are VERY competitive. Part of that is likely because there are very very few equine associate positions available right now, and it is better to have an internship (or a 2nd, or 3rd) than no job at all, hence many places getting a huge number of applications.

My advice would be to first of all decide IF you want to go down the equine route. If you're not already a national AAEP member, I would join because they have many many excellent resources.

If you decide to pursue equine internships, do your homework about what clinic(s) you decide to visit. Again the AAEP has tons of resources for this. You are absolutely correct, the majority of clinics that you visit as an extern will be very hands-off (or you will be doing TPRs, feeding, cleaning stalls, etc). So if you aren't sure that you want to apply for an internship at the clinic, you will probably feel like you are wasting your time.

If you're concerned about your GPA, I won't tell you that it doesn't matter. When I was going through the process, I was told this by many many people, and what I actually discovered is that is really depends on the clinic. Some do not even ask for a transcript with their application, but many private practices actually do. Some of the very competitive clinics get SO many applications that I think they may have to use transcripts as a deciding factor...because virtually all of their applicants have 3 great letters, visited (potentially multiple times) and worked their butts off, have great CVs, etc, etc so honestly I can see why they need to look at transcripts!!

If you decide to go down the internship route, first make a list of what experiences are absolutely essential for you. Do you need to get some ambulatory experience, or do you want to work in a hospital for the whole year? Do you want to be at a practice with a particular type of caseload (racehorses, sporthorse lameness, or whatever)? Do you want to be the only intern, or do you want internmates? This will help you narrow down what clinics might be right for you.

Especially if you are concerned about your GPA, I think it is important that you do NOT discount a clinic just because it isn't Hagyards, Rood and Riddle, or Littleton. If you aren't dead set on doing a surgery residency, I would encourage you to visit 'smaller' clinics. They may not be as well-known but they may still offer a fantastic internship experience. A word of caution - if at all possible, I would try to visit these practices yourself, or at least talk to one or ideally multiple past interns. Most clinics have good programs but some are slave labour...also try to look for red flags, ie consistently having interns that don't finish the year.

Anyway sorry for the novel, I hope it helps you and/or others. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any further questions about the process!