Extremely low GPA, potentially high MCAT. should I bother?

[get smart]

I finished undergrad with a 2.9 overall GPA and a 1.9 in 28 science credits (2 Bios, 2 Chems, 1 Orgo, 1 Physics). I started college with pre-health in mind, but for a number of reasons I ended up with abysmal grades. I eventually switched to another major and forgot about my med school dreams. I ended up applying for law school and will likely attend a top 20 school in the fall (the LSAT is weighed substantially in admissions, so my GPA won't keep me out of top schools).

I have not taken an actual MCAT yet and I know practice tests aren't that meaningful, but I want to gauge whether or not I even stand a chance. Let's just assume for a minute that I score a 37 (I'm aware of how difficult that is to achieve), and finish my science prereqs in a post-bacc, getting straight A's. My science GPA should then be around a 2.7 and cumulative will hopefully be a 3.0. It can get slightly higher if I retake some courses, but not by much since I believe MD schools will only average the grades.

So if I have a 3.0 GPA (2.7 science) with a 37 or higher, would I have a chance at getting into ANY non-Carribean MD school? Should I bother with this idea?

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[JeetKuneDo]

Have you thought about DO schools and their grade replacement if you retake a course?

 

[get smart]

Yes, I am open to that option. However I would prefer MD.

 

[ProteinChemist]

Is 3.0 good enough to get you past some schools' cutoffs?

If someone answers that question yes, then go for it. If it's been a "dream" of yours, why wouldn't you at least give it a try?

And Ross and SGU are apparently not too bad of MD Caribbean schools from what I've heard depending on what you want to do.

I'd give a good explanation for why your gpa was what it was in your PS and do the normal ECs and you might have a shot.

 

[alibai3ah]

If you would prefer an MD program, why not try doing an SMP. With a high MCAT score/low GPA, SMP's are programs that are catered perfectly for that situation. In addition, a strong performance in a SMP pretty much reduces any impact your undergrad GPA had. And most SMP's (well known ones like Georgetown) usually result in an acceptance somewhere.... Try that out, Good luck. However, this is VERY risky, b/c a bad performance in a SMP ruins any chance you may have had in the medical profession.

 

[virusgirl]

I agree with above. Unless you are URM, your grades are not going to cut it at a US allopathic school. Without an MCAT score, it's hard to gauge if you'd even be competitive at an osteopathic school.

Not to be a debbie downer, but you seem to be pinning a lot of hope on hypotheticals. IF you do well on the MCAT, IF you do a post-bacc and get straight As... first you need to address whatever it what that kept you from doing well while you were in undergrad. Until you do that, don't count on grades that you don't even have yet.

And practice MCATs are *very* meaningful. While your score will fluctuate a bit from test to test, you can average your scores to determine how you're performing and whether you're improving. Equally important, they give you PRACTICE, and the number of people who did well on the MCAT without preparation could probably be counted on one hand.

So here is my advice:

1.) Do something to get those undergrad grades up. This is critical.
2.) Take a practice MCAT. Better yet, take a couple. Obviously you want your score to be as high as possible, but if you can't get past 22 (this is my admittedly-arbitrary cutoff), than you are not competitive for medical school, MD or DO.
3.) Become more open to the idea of an osteopathic school. It's good that you haven't ruled it out entirely, because a US MD school is going to be tricky.

Also be aware that this process will probably take awhile for you to complete... I wouldn't anticipate applying within the next year, maybe even two. You're starting from a difficult place, and while people can and do recover from that, you have to build a compelling place. Now is the time to start doing some meaningful ECs, research, clinical experience, etc (if you aren't already). Once you have some ECs and tangible grades/MCAT scores, we'll be able to give you some better feedback.

 

[virusgirl]

I'd also think carefully about the Caribbean schools. I admit that I don't know much about them, and perhaps the ones that have been mentioned are better about this, but LOTS of those students either don't graduate or don't match in residency. It may seem early to be thinking about residency but your MD amounts to **** if you don't match.

This is why I never understand why people have such a DO bias and would rather go Caribbean. Yes, they get the more recognizeable "MD" after their name, which no one actually notices because they don't get jobs... but I digress.

 

[MilkmanAl]

How many science courses did you get a C- or worse in? Retake all of them. You won't get credit for them at either MD or DO schools otherwise. Ditto that for all other classes you have a C- or worse in. Hopefully those retakes can pump your GPA up enough that DO is a viable route. I think you're probably in bad shape at MD schools no matter what your MCAT is and how well you do on your retakes. It sounds like you can probably help yourself out quite a lot where DO schools are concerned, though. Aim for that route. Alternatively, you can retake all your classes and do a SMP and hope for an MD acceptance. I'd opt for DO since you have more control over your chances, but either is a potentially viable route.

 

[Perrotfish]

Low GPA guy, meet the low GPA thread. It's stories from, and advice to, SDNers with low GPAs. I think you'll get along. There are just about a thousand posts from people in your situation.

Short answer, with a 2.7 sci and a 3.0 cum, chances are you'd be looking at at least a year of resume building (an SMP) to get into medical school, regardless of GPA.

Also your practice tests are extremely meaningful. Most people end up within a couple of points of their practice score. Are you killing the MCAT practice tests?

 

[batman1983]

I finished undergrad with a 2.9 overall GPA and a 1.9 in 28 science credits (2 Bios, 2 Chems, 1 Orgo, 1 Physics). I started college with pre-health in mind, but for a number of reasons I ended up with abysmal grades. I eventually switched to another major and forgot about my med school dreams. I ended up applying for law school and will likely attend a top 20 school in the fall (the LSAT is weighed substantially in admissions, so my GPA won't keep me out of top schools).

I have not taken an actual MCAT yet and I know practice tests aren't that meaningful, but I want to gauge whether or not I even stand a chance. Let's just assume for a minute that I score a 37 (I'm aware of how difficult that is to achieve), and finish my science prereqs in a post-bacc, getting straight A's. My science GPA should then be around a 2.7 and cumulative will hopefully be a 3.0. It can get slightly higher if I retake some courses, but not by much since I believe MD schools will only average the grades.

So if I have a 3.0 GPA (2.7 science) with a 37 or higher, would I have a chance at getting into ANY non-Carribean MD school? Should I bother with this idea?

Damn, with a 2.9 GPA, you got into a top 20 school? Congrats, I knew law schools weighed the LSAT more, but even then, I heard that with a perfect LSAT, it was almost impossible to get into a top tier law school without at least a 3.3 GPA.

So, are you doing a JD and thinking of getting a MD? Also, if you dont mind me asking, are you a URM? Im only asking because it makes a significant difference in the admissions process for medical school. If you are, and you have a 37MCAT, you dont have to worry about the low GPA. However, if you arent, then the low GPA will obviously go against you. You can either try to rectify the GPA issue by taking additional science classes through postbac or an SMP. Yet, I think you might get away with the low GPA since your JD will work for you in the application process, as long as you do have extensive ECs(preferably something nonprofit or clinical with underserved) and do some research. There are a couple mdapplicant.com profiles that I have seen of ppl w/JDs and MBAs and similar GPA/MCAT scores as what you are trying to obtain that got into top 10-20 medical schools. The JD seemed to be better than the MBA in the AdCom's eyes. So there is hope. Worst case, with a 3.0 GPA and >37MCAT, just move to a noncompetitive state like Florida, Ohio, or Texas(there are probably more, but these are the ones the only ones that Im aware of), and get state residency so that you be get guaranteed admissions to one of their state schools.

Btw, if you end up having to choose between either a top 20 law school or going the DO/Caribbean route, go to law school. With the Caribbean/DO routes, there are no guarantees, and plus, by the time you woudl get out of law school, the economy will have begun picking up.

 

[flip26]

WTF is a "potentially high" MCAT? Practice tests are not exactly meaningless...have you taken any?

 

[virusgirl]

Damn, with a 2.9 GPA, you got into a top 20 school? Congrats, I knew law schools weighed the LSAT more, but even then, I heard that with a perfect LSAT, it was almost impossible to get into a top tier law school without at least a 3.3 GPA.

...

Btw, if you end up having to choose between either a top 20 law school or going the DO/Caribbean route, go to law school. With the Caribbean/DO routes, there are no guarantees, and plus, by the time you woudl get out of law school, the economy will have begun picking up.

Um, there aren't exactly any guarantees for US allopathic, either. Most people match, but some don't.

You can hardly put Caribbean and DO in the same category. DOs match all the time, both in osteopathic AND allopathic residencies. Caribbean grads simply do not. If OP ends up at a DO school, he/she is almost certain to land a residency, but this is not the case for Caribbean grads.

 

[md2bknox]

what is urm?

 

[Poop Eater]

URM: Uranium Rice Malicious

You're welcome

 

[Habeed]

Um, there aren't exactly any guarantees for US allopathic, either. Most people match, but some don't.

A U.S. allopathic grad who's record is so abysmal that they don't match/scramble Internal Medicine or Family Practice somewhere probably shouldn't be a doctor at all. That's a lot closer to a 'guarantee' than law school.

 

[md2bknox]

good job poopeater for your lovely sarcasm. Thank you to the person who explained it to me...

 

[spicedmanna]

There's this popular myth going around, and it has been going around for some time, that an awesome score on the MCAT can fully make up for, or compensate for, a markedly low GPA. This is not really true. While it certainly helps to have a great MCAT score, your extremely low GPA is going to stand out like a sore thumb. If your GPA was only moderately low, a higher MCAT might have balanced your application out a bit more, but truly, with a 2.9 overall and 1.9 science, your chances are going to be slim to none.

You need to fix your GPA and prove your scholastic ability. That's the bottom line.

 

[batman1983]

Once again there is a combination of factors involved in the admissions process.

1)State of residency(ie, you can probably get into a TX, FL, or Ohio school with a low GPA/high MCAT combination, but probably can not in a CA school)
2)Race(if you are a URM(underrepresented minority=black/mexican), the bar is set significantly lower in terms of GPA/MCAT stats)
3)ECs
4)Disadvantaged status
5)LORs/PS

If you want my opinion, stick with the top 20 law school route. To get into a MD, not only must you do well on the MCAT(which is very different than the LSAT since it involves utilizing a body of science based knowledge), but then you must complete and do very well in your remaining premed and even a couple upper division science classes. Is it doable? Yes, but given the lucarative path you have in front of you as well as the costs, effort, and risks associated with trying to go the MD route, I would advise against it.