Factors to Consider When Choosing a Medical School

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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Dmizrahi

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There is probably a thread on this already, but i searched and couldn't find anything informative.

Should i be fortunate enough to be able to choose between a number of schools for medical school; what other factors are people taking into consideration when choosing besides:

1. Geographic location
2. Curriculum
3. Match results

(in no particular prioritized manner)

Input/Feedback appreciated as always. Thanks!
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everyone's criteria will be different, but mine are as follows

*class diversity
*philosophy of medicine (taking care of the person)
*clinical exposure
*likelihood of my husband getting into a local school
 
What about passing rate on boards? isnt that important
 
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I just heard horror stories on people who go through medical school but cannot pass their boards.
 
How about the amount of money they are willing to throw at you.
 
The specific location within the geographical location (nice part of the city or not)

Accessibility of the faculty, and how much emphasis is placed on the hospital staff teaching med students (hard to judge this, obviously)

How nice the facilities are. It's important to me to have a nice, pleasant library, etc.

Cost!!!!!!!

how well organized everything is (curriculum, the procedure for getting complaints worked out, financial aid, figuring out preceptorships and away rotations, note-taking service, who gets AOA, etc)

not needing a car the first two years

there are certain things that are not by any stretch of the imagination deal breakers but that are still nice, like: exams only on fridays, block scheduling, lectures streamed in some way so you can watch or listen to them at some other time, the grades being "such a grade equals honors, such a grade equals pass," etc., rather than "10% of the class gets honors," etc., to minimize competition between classmates
 
My criteria were more or less as follows:

1. Pass/Fail (Do NOT go to a non P/F school.)
2. Location (large city vs. college town. Geographic didn't really play much of a role)
3. Special programs
4. Diversity of student body
5. Patient population
6. Cost/financial aid

I used to think the match list was important, but it's really not. Maybe if you have your heart set on ortho and School X matches 15% of the class into ortho.... But no residency program would compare you to your school's match list.
 
What I see as the most important factors:

(1) Location (including clinical sites)
(2) Quality of facilities
(3) Cost
(4) Course structure (traditional structure vs. PBL)


Factors that people tend to over-emphasize

(1) "Quality" of education: You learn the same stuff anywhere you go, Med School is largely self-study, and there's no objective way to quantify it. The quality of your education is most influenced by the facilities and the course structure.

(2) Board Scores: Nearly completely dependent on individual effort.

(3) Match Lists: Mostly individual effort, and heavily influenced by where students apply (in other words, what region of the country)

(4) Dealings with the admissions office. The second you start classes, you never have to deal with the admissions office again. Don't let a bad experience with the office turn you off to the rest of the school. It's rarely a reflection on the school itself.

(5) Rankings and research prowess. Neither will have any impact on your pre-clinical education.
 
Writer1985 said:
My criteria were more or less as follows:

1. Pass/Fail (Do NOT go to a non P/F school.)
Click to expand...

Does this include an honors/pass/fail school? Or do you just mean not a school that's either ABCDF or high honors/honors/high pass/pass/marginal pass/fail? Just wondering your opinion. thanks.
 
Just the input i was looking for, keep'em commin!

Thanks!
 
Anyone have a good list of P/F schools?
 
Writer1985 said:
My criteria were more or less as follows:

1. Pass/Fail (Do NOT go to a non P/F school.)
2. Location (large city vs. college town. Geographic didn't really play much of a role)
3. Special programs
4. Diversity of student body
5. Patient population
6. Cost/financial aid

I used to think the match list was important, but it's really not. Maybe if you have your heart set on ortho and School X matches 15% of the class into ortho.... But no residency program would compare you to your school's match list.
Click to expand...

may be a dumb question but why is going to a P/F school bad?.. i thought it would be better? please explain
 
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More or less in this order...

1.) Reputation: not just rankings, but also how the school treats its students (though I suppose this really is a part of number 2 below)
2.) Student Life: what is life like outside of school?
3.) Cost: pretty big issue, though I would be willing to overlook it if the reputation and student life areas were outstanding.
4.) Location: I would prefer the hustle and bustle of the city, but again, I would be willing to overlook for a great reputation and student life.
 
I think premeds overcomplicate this.

Cost
Cost
Location
Is it Harvard -- there is merit in attending one of the very few schools with insane match lists
Cost
Is there someone there that I must do research with


Worthless/overrated:

Grading system (Everyone has a different system so how are residency directors going to interpret them? Most schools have class rank anyway, regardless of grading system, and that's what matters.)
"Diversity"
Mean USMLE scores
Facilities
even student quality of life (it really is up to you; no school will keep you from having a life if you want one)

Med students tend to stress over things because they misperceive their signficance.
 
1. Curriculum (P/F vs. H/P/F vs. all others)
2. Board Exam Freedom (freedom over WHEN you take it vs. not)
3. Cost
4. Location
 
what are the advantages/disadvantages of a P/F and H/P/F system, which is typically preferred?
 
1. P/F evaluation (or H/P/F will do).
2. Lecture-based curriculum (I want to avoid PBL like the plague).
3. Location (I need to be near civilization to keep sane).
 
P/F You can focus on studying to learn and not studying to get the A. Makes it less competitive and at least somewhat enjoyable if you consider studying/learning enjoyable. :laugh:
 
blurry said:
1. P/F evaluation (or H/P/F will do).
2. Lecture-based curriculum (I want to avoid PBL like the plague).
3. Location (I need to be near civilization to keep sane).
Click to expand...

Is PBL the acronym for Problem Based Learning? If not what is for PBL?
 
Obviously:
1) Will they let me in?
 
Cost is huge. You're going to be miserable anywhere you go, might as well make it as cheap as possible :p
 
Things that matter (to me):
-Cost
-Location (I would prefer to go to school in as small of a community as I can)
-Cost
-Research opportunities (simply because I like doing it)
-Cost
-Degree (I have nothing against DO programs, I'd just rather not be wasting time giving my classmates backrubs when I could doing something useful like studying)
-Curriculum type (P/F vs graded; PBL vs lectures)
-Match lists (although this would not add nor remove a school to/from consideration without other factors)

Things that don't matter (to me):
-Social life of the area (I don't socialize with my classmates now, why would I do it when I'm even busier?)
-Diversity (why would this even matter?)
-"Ranking"
-Opportunities for social service projects (free clinic work, etc)


Did I mention cost of attendance is important to me? :laugh:
 
Dmizrahi said:
All of this speculation is based on if you got in how would you chose between schools...
Click to expand...

Oh..

1) Will I be happy there?
2) Financial aid? Cost?
3) Where is it? The boonies? NYC?
4) Will I be with a bunch of pricks? (not that you can really ever tell much).
 
....the student "body"...of the opposite sex preferably:)
 
lord_jeebus said:
I think premeds overcomplicate this.

Cost
Cost
Location
Is it Harvard -- there is merit in attending one of the very few schools with insane match lists
Cost
Is there someone there that I must do research with


Worthless/overrated:

Grading system (Everyone has a different system so how are residency directors going to interpret them? Most schools have class rank anyway, regardless of grading system, and that's what matters.)
"Diversity"
Mean USMLE scores
Facilities
even student quality of life (it really is up to you; no school will keep you from having a life if you want one)

Med students tend to stress over things because they misperceive their signficance.
Click to expand...

I totally disagree with almost every point you made.

While cost is important, unless you get an amazing scholarship from a school i think this should play little role in your decision.

why?

Lets say you can save 15k a year going to a cheaper med school. That 60k total, and say even with interest 80k, and you pay it back over 10 years. That is an extra 8k a year, or $650/month.

Assuming one makes 250k/yr, or 175k after taxes, that is almost 14k/month

so once you make a 'real' salary the $650 one pays extra per month is worth it to me -- assuming the school is a better fit for you etc.


Location - I agree here

Is it Harvard -- Yeah, there are only a few schools considering going to over harvard, but hopefully i'll have to make this 'hard' decision

research -- agree, although most schools have good research oppurtunities for motivated students

--------

Worthless/overrated:

Grading system (Everyone has a different system so how are residency directors going to interpret them? Most schools have class rank anyway, regardless of grading system, and that's what matters.)
Click to expand...

Wow. A ranking in med school just asks for uber-competiveness. I want to be at a palce where students help each other and love to learn for the sake of their future patients, etc -- not for some residency match.




"Diversity" -- I think diversity should be celebrated. Very important to me.

Mean USMLE scores -- this is overrated i agree


Facilities -- probably not a deciding factor, but is an added bonus


even student quality of life (it really is up to you; no school will keep you from having a life if you want one)
Click to expand...

Naw, you are wrong -- while im sure you could be happy anywhere there are degrees and i think the type of students one is surround by has a huge effect.
 
NotMeNow said:
I totally disagree with almost every point you made.

While cost is important, unless you get an amazing scholarship from a school i think this should play little role in your decision.

why?

Lets say you can save 15k a year going to a cheaper med school. That 60k total, and say even with interest 80k, and you pay it back over 10 years. That is an extra 8k a year, or $650/month.

Assuming one makes 250k/yr, or 175k after taxes, that is almost 14k/month

so once you make a 'real' salary the $650 one pays extra per month is worth it to me -- assuming the school is a better fit for you etc.


Location - I agree here

Is it Harvard -- Yeah, there are only a few schools considering going to over harvard, but hopefully i'll have to make this 'hard' decision

research -- agree, although most schools have good research oppurtunities for motivated students

--------

Worthless/overrated:



Wow. A ranking in med school just asks for uber-competiveness. I want to be at a palce where students help each other and love to learn for the sake of their future patients, etc -- not for some residency match.




"Diversity" -- I think diversity should be celebrated. Very important to me.

Mean USMLE scores -- this is overrated i agree


Facilities -- probably not a deciding factor, but is an added bonus




Naw, you are wrong -- while im sure you could be happy anywhere there are degrees and i think the type of students one is surround by has a huge effect.
Click to expand...

When you combine the fact that you'll be paying malpractice, mortgage, insurance, and just general cost of living, as well as insurance, cost is EXTREMLY important, not because of what you will owe when you're done with med school, but the interest that likes to pile on afterwards.

Again, you make the silly assumption that med school debt is the only thing you'll be living with. That's totally wrong.
 
NotMeNow said:
Wow. A ranking in med school just asks for uber-competiveness. I want to be at a palce where students help each other and love to learn for the sake of their future patients, etc -- not for some residency match.
Click to expand...

Good luck finding a school without an internal ranking system. There are a few. I go to one and it has no impact on who is competitive and who isn't.

Competitive people are everywhere -- look around your premed peers. They will still be your peers in med school. They will always find a way to compete -- if not grades, then some other way.

Will a grading system make you more competitive? If not, what makes you special?
 
lord_jeebus said:
Good luck finding a school without an internal ranking system. There are a few. I go to one and it has no impact on who is competitive and who isn't.

Competitive people are everywhere -- look around your premed peers. They will still be your peers in med school. They will always find a way to compete -- if not grades, then some other way.

Will a grading system make you more competitive? If not, what makes you special?
Click to expand...

Besides, wouldn't you say you only really need a few close friends to study with that aren't total dinguses? It's not like you're required to be friends with your entire class, right?
 
TheRealMD said:
Besides, wouldn't you say you only really need a few close friends to study with that aren't total dinguses? It's not like you're required to be friends with your entire class, right?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't see how you would befriend your entire class at any school, even if you wanted to.

It is easy to overlook that the purpose of going to medical school is to learn the skills to become a good physician and your fellow students have very little influence over this. Think about your goals in life (being a great doctor vs. befriending a hundred future doctors vs. celebrating diversity for the next 4 years) and pick accordingly.
 
hmm well. let's just say i can have both.

ive been to plenty of schools who have NO RANKING system.

and i will attend one of these schools.

i will have fun and become a great doctor at the same time.

goodluck.
 
Writer1985 said:
My criteria were more or less as follows:

1. Pass/Fail (Do NOT go to a non P/F school.)
Click to expand...

I thought that all med schools gave class rankings to residency directors anyway--right? If so, then why does it matter if it is an ABCD school or P/F school? The end result is the same, right, or am I missing something?
 
1. Location
2. Cost
3. Minority populations
4. Teaching philosophy/curriculum
 
lord_jeebus said:
Yeah, I don't see how you would befriend your entire class at any school, even if you wanted to.

It is easy to overlook that the purpose of going to medical school is to learn the skills to become a good physician and your fellow students have very little influence over this. Think about your goals in life (being a great doctor vs. befriending a hundred future doctors vs. celebrating diversity for the next 4 years) and pick accordingly.
Click to expand...

Huh. See for me, I think med school will be difficult enough on its own. I don't want to add to its difficulty by being with a class of students who spend four years locked in their rooms studying. I know it's going to be hard, but come on, doesn't "being a good doctor" include knowing how to interact with people?
 
PBL is a four letter word.
 
Filibuster said:
PBL is a four letter word.
Click to expand...

Having graduated from an undergraduate school where every class was done seminar style, i.e. active learning as done in PBL, I can understand why people hate PBL.


However, if active learning can be done WELL, it is FAR superior to traditional education methods.

The only problem is that it takes a MAJOR investment of time and effort to get good at it on the part of the student. In fact it took my classmates between 1.5 and 2 years at 18 hours a week to get GOOD at it. The next 2 years were phenomenal!

That being said, I think the approach to actively learning at medical schools is flawed as students have no idea how to learn in this system. Students don't know when to talk and when not to talk, students don't know how to gracefully admit they are wrong and move on and to take value from individuals who a wrong. Students don't know how not to depend on a so-called expert.

just MHO
 
Luxian said:
Huh. See for me, I think med school will be difficult enough on its own. I don't want to add to its difficulty by being with a class of students who spend four years locked in their rooms studying. I know it's going to be hard, but come on, doesn't "being a good doctor" include knowing how to interact with people?
Click to expand...

If you're really worried about this, go outside and interact with any of the people you encounter.

Every school has people who choose to study all the time and people who choose to have lives.

Your peers really have very little to do with the quality of your education.
 
Factoring in loved ones, especially my significant other, is weighing heavily on my decision. Is anyone in the same boat?
 
adeadlois, I'm curious why you consider facilities such an important factor in deciding where to go. could you be a little more specific as to why you think so?
 
WildcatMD2 said:
adeadlois, I'm curious why you consider facilities such an important factor in deciding where to go. could you be a little more specific as to why you think so?
Click to expand...

It's a "bang for your buck" kind of thing. I'm paying a lot to attend medical school; I would want a place that provides a modern, clean and comfortable environment to learn in. Nice lecture halls, anatomy labs, classrooms go along way in my opinion. I generally go to class so this kind of stuff matters to me. Others might not so it's not as big of a deal. I also extend this to the hospitals you will do your rotations at. You're going to spend 60-80 hours a week there; you might as well be in a nice environment.
 
thanks. i definitely agree; i don't want to be going to classes in some run-down med school, especially in the first two years. i'm hoping the hospital is fairly decent facility no matter where i go (i don't think i've been to a run-down hospital in my experience). i've been on a few interviews and seen a wide range as far as quality of facilities--i was thinking that maybe you thought it was significant in the overall success of the students.
 
WildcatMD2 said:
thanks. i definitely agree; i don't want to be going to classes in some run-down med school, especially in the first two years. i'm hoping the hospital is fairly decent facility no matter where i go (i don't think i've been to a run-down hospital in my experience). i've been on a few interviews and seen a wide range as far as quality of facilities--i was thinking that maybe you thought it was significant in the overall success of the students.
Click to expand...

There's very little else that will determine your success in med school other than yourself, facilities included. I don't meant to sound cheesy, but it's the truth. To me, it's all about what place will make for a comfortable experience, whether that be aesthetically, academically or financially.
 
ADeadLois said:
I also extend this to the hospitals you will do your rotations at. You're going to spend 60-80 hours a week there; you might as well be in a nice environment.
Click to expand...

"Nice environment" sometimes translates into "crappy clinical experience." Nice hospitals sometimes tend to draw the same kind of patient, so you don't really learn how to handle challenging patients and difficult clinical problems. Nicer hospitals (located in very wealthy parts of town) also tend to have patients that refuse to let med students INTO the room. I've had patients that kicked the chief resident out of the room. (Seriously.)

Similarly, a lot of VA hospitals are kind of run-down and crappy, but often have strong rotations.

So ask around - even if the hospital is lovely, it doesn't mean that you'll have a good experience there.
 
I'd say

Money
Location
Whether you have support (family/friends around--only if it is an option of course).

I think med schools are all pretty similar. And you don't generally HAVE to go to class.
 
francisco84 said:
Having graduated from an undergraduate school where every class was done seminar style, i.e. active learning as done in PBL, I can understand why people hate PBL.


However, if active learning can be done WELL, it is FAR superior to traditional education methods.

The only problem is that it takes a MAJOR investment of time and effort to get good at it on the part of the student. In fact it took my classmates between 1.5 and 2 years at 18 hours a week to get GOOD at it. The next 2 years were phenomenal!

That being said, I think the approach to actively learning at medical schools is flawed as students have no idea how to learn in this system. Students don't know when to talk and when not to talk, students don't know how to gracefully admit they are wrong and move on and to take value from individuals who a wrong. Students don't know how not to depend on a so-called expert.

just MHO
Click to expand...


Our school uses PBL for students to present (teach) other students various topics related to a 'case'. This is not problem based learning. This is lecture by a novice... As the presenter just learned the material the day before.

The end result. There is no way in h*ll that any of us are going to be prepared for Step I, and quite frankly, it scares the crap out of me.
 
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