Failed APPE Pharmacy Rotation

[Thepharmstudent111]

Hello,

I am an P4 student and I failed my first APPE rotation. I am a student with above 3.5, always made the deans list, and one of the top in my class. I followed everything that my preceptor told me to do, showed up on time, did everything in my power to learn. I even gave my preceptor my strengths and weaknesses. I felt that my preceptor basically kept knit picking me on stuff that I am weak on and made it as a failure. I feel that I was overworked as if I am an employee for the company, which I did not think this is right. There was no action plan implemented and preceptor did not tell me what were some things I can work on at all during the rotation. A few days before preceptor told me I failed and never told me anything about me failing before that. On my make up block for my rotation, the preceptor I have now thinks I am amazing and I felt like I am learning and I am doing everything that I am told. I as a pharmacy student has never failed a class before or have any problems with rotation. I am also doing my best to fight the grade I earned from that block I failed. I now realized it is definately the fault of the preceptor after going through my make up block. What do yall think?

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[BMBiology]

Why would you expect random people to give you a thoughtful response when you only presented your side of the story? How about the other side?

Failing sucks but you have two choices: become bitter or reflect on what had happened and learned from it. Once you are out in the real world, you will quickly learn that fairness rarely has anything to do with outcome. You can learn how the world works and apply your knowledge to your advantage or become one of those bitter pharmacists.


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[owlegrad]

Failing a rotation for performance should never be out of the blue. Either you were totally oblivious or the preceptor is really bad at giving feedback.

It is kind of odd to say you failed your first APPE and then go on to say you "never have any problems with rotation". Of course you never had any problems with rotations if this was your first one.

I am glad it is working out on your make-up block though. Good luck fighting your earlier grade, I doubt that will happen but you probably have nothing to lose so why not?

 

[Chriskahn]

Some preceptors are dicks, but that's life. Your boss in the future might be the same way. Just gotta make the best of it or go elsewhere if you cant handle it. Nothing you can really do besides that.

TLDR: brush it off, learn from it, and move on

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Having to only work with the preceptor for only 2 days and then already giving me a failing grade at midpoint and then finding that out at end of rotation is messed up. I worked with the other pharmacist and floaters mostly during the first 2 and half weeks. As a preceptor, you have to work with the student and communicate to the student on what to work on. Nothing was communicated to me til the end. I had no expectations or no syllabus at the start of the rotation either. Its like I walked into the rotation and failed. No matter how smart or how dumb a student is, no student don't deserve to go through this. But out of random lottery, i had to take this one.

 

[TerryTerry]

I don`t think you provided us with enough information to give you good feedback. My first preceptor at an independent pharmacy also tried to fail me. He taught me nothing, barely showed up at work and hated me because I didn`t know what to do at pharmacy right away. When he graded he gave me so many Ds on my evaluation but I still passed with C- in the end. Some preceptors are only looking for free labors. They don`t teach you and don`t tell you what you can do to improve your grades as you spend time with them. That is absolutely unfair. They are suppose to work with you to help you pass, but some of them are just dicks. Not sure if you can do anything about your situation. Some people just find pleasure out of stepping over other people.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

I don`t think you provided us with enough information to give you good feedback. My first preceptor at an independent pharmacy also tried to fail me. He taught me nothing, barely showed up at work and hated me because I didn`t know what to do at pharmacy right away. When he graded he gave me so many Ds on my evaluation but I still passed with C- in the end. Some preceptors are only looking for free labors. They don`t teach you and don`t tell you what you can do to improve your grades as you spend time with them. That is absolutely unfair. They are suppose to work with you to help you pass, but some of them are just dicks. Not sure if you can do anything about your situation. Some people just find pleasure out of stepping over other people.

Hello Terryterry, I had to make an C on mine and I didn't make that. Some preceptors are mean, but sometimes in the end they pass the student because they don't want to deal with talking to the course coordinator about failing a student. My preceptor was just plain out crazy. It takes a lot of hard work to fail a student and alot of documentation. Also it is very rare occurrence. I am mad at the fact that I actually failed the rotation. If I passed with the lowest grade to earn, I understand and would not be a bully about it. But if I did everything that a student is suppose to on rotation and receive a failing grade, then that is the part I would be mad and concerned about. I dont know what would go through the preceptors mind for doing something like this. I understand if I didn't try or didn't show up, then I feel I deserve to fail. But in my situation, I do not deserve to fail

 

[TerryTerry]

Some preceptors try to shape you and guide you. Some preceptors simply try to check if you are ready to work next day wherever you are placed. I cannot say much about your preceptor but it sure sucks to have latter one. I found most hospital preceptors extremely helpful and knowledgeable. Come to think of it, my first preceptor only talked about his profit.

 

[BMBiology]

Out of six rotations, the chance of you getting at least one a-hole preceptor is pretty good. But ask yourself this: why did he pass other students and not you? If he is such an unreasonable preceptor, why does your school keep on sending students to his site?

My first preceptor is a bitter pharmacist. He turned in his resignation letter just prior to my rotation. He didn’t want to do anything. He was barely there because he wanted to use up all of his PTO/sick days so he handed me his last project. He even warned me that if I didn’t do a good job, it would reflect poorly on my grade (aka I am going to fail you). I hated his attitude and his lack of guidance. But what I learned from this project changed the direction of my life. I am sure that wasn’t my preceptor intention. Don’t get me wrong...I still think he is an a-hole but I got this unique opportunity because of him.

The point is...you are going to go thru a lot of crap in your life. How you respond to them will shape you forever. Don’t let bumps in the road become a road block. Reflect, learn from your pain and anger and become a stronger person.




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[CetiAlphaFive]

Hello,

I am an P4 student and I failed my first APPE rotation. I am a student with above 3.5, always made the deans list, and one of the top in my class. I followed everything that my preceptor told me to do, showed up on time, did everything in my power to learn. I even gave my preceptor my strengths and weaknesses. I felt that my preceptor basically kept knit picking me on stuff that I am weak on and made it as a failure. I feel that I was overworked as if I am an employee for the company, which I did not think this is right. There was no action plan implemented and preceptor did not tell me what were some things I can work on at all during the rotation. A few days before preceptor told me I failed and never told me anything about me failing before that. On my make up block for my rotation, the preceptor I have now thinks I am amazing and I felt like I am learning and I am doing everything that I am told. I as a pharmacy student has never failed a class before or have any problems with rotation. I am also doing my best to fight the grade I earned from that block I failed. I now realized it is definately the fault of the preceptor after going through my make up block. What do yall think?

Going by one post, you sound like an very booksmart person with very little self awareness.

There's a reason *you* failed and other students passed

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

as crazy as how I think of this. And every student has the same interpretation as me. That it all matters about what preceptor you get. Imagine if I didn’t have this preceptor and I had all good preceptors. Nothing like that incident would happen. Like imagine if I had that same preceptor for every rotation. After 3 years of hard work, making all A’s and barely having any B’s and being in honor society. I might as well leave the program Just because of this one preceptor that turned my life around for no reason. The good news is I am still graduating on time. I hope another incident doesn’t happen like this again. I am now on rotation#3 and everyday coming in, I’m always feeling happy and feeling more confident and my preceptor is great. He has no problems with me so far. I am happy that I am actually doing all pharmacist tasks rather than tech work.

 

[297point1]

It takes a lot of hard work to fail a student and alot of documentation. Also it is very rare occurrence.

You are correct about all three things.

What documentation did the preceptor provide to the school to justify the failing course grade? Please share.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

She provided my evaluation to school that we never went over and that I never even looked at. To me it was all unfair grading. I’m telling you this, all students from day 1 never recommended this preceptor. That also justified why I failed

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

She provided my evaluation to school that we never went over and that I never even looked at. To me it was all unfair grading. I’m telling you this, all students from day 1 never recommended this preceptor. That also justified why I failed

So no one ever read the evaluation to you?

If it was rotation #1, how did your classmates recommend against them?

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Ceti, the preceptor didn’t read me the evaluation at all. Everything was posted right at end which includes the mid eval and final eval. And I was first student to have this preceptor and more students are going to have this preceptor later. I did all the work, made the phone calls and one little thing that all takes practice, she failed me in evaluation. No chance to counsel or even ask questions to the patient that talked to me first. I was going to say something and then she takes over. Shake my head.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Students had her for first year and second year, some of them.

 

[BMBiology]

She provided my evaluation to school that we never went over and that I never even looked at. To me it was all unfair grading. I’m telling you this, all students from day 1 never recommended this preceptor. That also justified why I failed

If you didn't even look at your evaluation then how did you know it was unfair?

I know plenty of people with a victim mentality. They can't take criticism. Even the thought of failure is not acceptable in their world. They have been "winning" all of this time so how can they fail? So if things don't work out, then it is because someone is being unfair or the system is inherently unfair. Suck to live in fake world.

 

[Sparda29]

The only time I ever heard of a preceptor failing someone out of the blue was when they made a recommendation to a doctor (1st year resident) without checking with the preceptor first and the doctor did what the pharm student told them to do and the patient had an adverse reaction.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Ceti, the preceptor didn’t read me the evaluation at all. Everything was posted right at end which includes the mid eval and final eval. And I was first student to have this preceptor and more students are going to have this preceptor later. I did all the work, made the phone calls and one little thing that all takes practice, she failed me in evaluation. No chance to counsel or even ask questions to the patient that talked to me first. I was going to say something and then she takes over. Shake my head.

You're not reading our posts correctly.

We all want to know what that "one little thing" was.

Counseling?
It couldn't have been communication related, could it?

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Communication related, but in different scenarios. English is my weakest subject. But I communicated great with patients, the only issue is the preceptor was knit picky with the way I started it. I know it’s all a learning experience. But if you want me to talk to patients exactly how you want it, why am I not able to do it in my own way.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Having good grades, showing up on time, and doing what you're told doesn't entitle you to pass a rotation.

And if your preceptor never provided verbal feedback with any written documentation of your deficiencies then they aren't entitled to precept students. You need to talk to your APPE coordinator.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Rock, the preceptor should have shown me documentation right at middle of rotation. If none of that is done, how am I suppose to show my concerns to the appe coordinator.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Communication related, but in different scenarios. English is my weakest subject. But I communicated great with patients, the only issue is the preceptor was knit picky with the way I started it. I know it’s all a learning experience. But if you want me to talk to patients exactly how you want it, why am I not able to do it in my own way. It’s hard at first trying to get used to learning from someone who’s a micro.

I see.
I agree that they should have at least spoken to you about it.

To be honest, I wouldn't pass a student that couldn't speak English at a minimum level either, and I would let them know.
I don't think you can safety practice as a pharmacist if you aren't at least proficient in the language that the majority of your patients speak.

What good would such feedback do anyway?
They're not going to significantly improve during my 6 weeks with them.

They've had 3 years for professors to recommend supplemental English courses.

To be honest, your posts are clear, and your English seems fine to me.
Your personality seems like a problem, though.
You have to adapt to kobayashi maru situations

Definitely raise your concerns with your APPE board.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

the preceptor is the one the thinks my communication is the problem and it’s not a problem. It’s just doing it her way is the problem. Every pharmacist practices in good and different ways. And yes my English is good. I think me being in the Pharmacy environment will all take practice. Because practice makes perfect.

 

[KARM12]

The school I precept for requires us to notify the school if the student is failing at the midpoint. If you did not get a midpoint, then it really isn't fair because you had no chance to improve.

 

[owlegrad]

So the midpoint evaluation showed you were failing but you never got that feedback until the rotation was over? That really is totally unacceptable. I doubt very much that your school would support a failing grade given that fact.

But you can’t control other people, only yourself. Did you ask your preceptor for your midpoint evaluation?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

the preceptor is the one the thinks my communication is the problem and it’s not a problem. It’s just doing it her way is the problem. Every pharmacist practices in good and different ways. And yes my English is good. I think me being in the Pharmacy environment will all take practice. Because practice makes perfect.

I mean, take this as constructively as you can.

I correctly guessed what your feedback was about just from your interactions on this forum.

I'm not psychic.

 

[owlegrad]

the preceptor is the one the thinks my communication is the problem and it’s not a problem. It’s just doing it her way is the problem. Every pharmacist practices in good and different ways. And yes my English is good. I think me being in the Pharmacy environment will all take practice. Because practice makes perfect.

I had a student once council a patient that brand name medications are better than generic. I told her she was never allowed to say that to another patient at my pharmacy and she argued with me about it. I simply told her if she did I would not allow her to council again at all. It does not matter to me at all that she can practice in a “good and different way” when it is her license. It’s my way or the highway as long as I am the preceptor.

So depending on what “her way” means it might still have been reasonable to fail you. But not without giving you a fair chance to improve.

 

[KARM12]

So the preceptor asked you to do something in a specific way and you did it your own way regardless? As a student you should do things according to how the site asks you (it may be part of a policy/protocol). When you are on your own, you can decide what is best then.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

I did it the preceptor way, but of course no one is perfect and I have to learn from my mistakes and the preceptor provided constructive criticism, which is fine. But finding out that I failed at end without knowing is what I think is messed up. Because there was improvement on my end.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

I did not ask for my midpoint evaluation. I was thinking I was doing just fine on the rotation and that there were no complaints about me. Because I know if the preceptor talked with me by the end of the day then I would know what I need to improve on. I worked long hour days and realized I was doing just fine. But exactly you are right, I had no control over any of this since I am only a student. The school knows that I am a good and well rounded student and they wanted to see my side story. There will be more to come later this week.

 

[owlegrad]

Keep us informed of what your school decides to do. I am sure it is of interest to lots of students who are in or afraid of being in the same situation.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Sounds good. Keep me in yalls prayer. I am fine so far in the direction I am going either way. This make up rotation I am in will replace the failing grade, which is good. I want to make sure that something so dumb like that situation doesn’t happen again and that I prevent myself for getting kicked out of program. It is a case that is worth fighting for.

 

[King2440]

Is this the first time ever you stepped into a community site, besides maybe your IPPE?

I don’t understand why schools keep accepting students that have little to no experience in retail, but that is another discussion in itself.

I’ve had my share of students that were just not fit for retail, but shame on the preceptor for not giving you constructive feedback. They have to at least give you a chance.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Maybe it's just me but something seems off.

I might have missed this but what did your mid point and final eval say when you finally saw it? I mean in some detail. I doubt it just said lacks communication skills but it could have.

Are you the first student ever for this preceptor? If not ask your coordinator if they fail students a lot. I understand you want opinions but the coordinator should be able to answer all your questions.

You have to ask how things are going and what you need to work on at the mid point. It's your life on the line not theirs. I'm sure you will going forward.

 

[Sparda29]

I had a student once council a patient that brand name medications are better than generic. I told her she was never allowed to say that to another patient at my pharmacy and she argued with me about it. I simply told her if she did I would not allow her to council again at all. It does not matter to me at all that she can practice in a “good and different way” when it is her license. It’s my way or the highway as long as I am the preceptor.

So depending on what “her way” means it might still have been reasonable to fail you. But not without giving you a fair chance to improve.

Oh god...all it takes is that one time a healthcare professional validates the belief that brand > generic (only applicable in soda drinks and electronics).

Something I noticed with my Spanish techs is that they don't say Brand or generic. They translate it over to Original or no-original. I've found working with Spanish patients that a lot of them prefer brand to generic, especially with OTC. I'm like standing there with a 1000ct bottle of Ibuprofen 200 saying this is $10 and the Advil is like $20 for like a 100ct, and they still wanna go with the Advil, apparently liquigels are better, wtf.

 

[owlegrad]

Oh god...all it takes is that one time a healthcare professional validates the belief that brand > generic (only applicable in soda drinks and electronics).

Something I noticed with my Spanish techs is that they don't say Brand or generic. They translate it over to Original or no-original. I've found working with Spanish patients that a lot of them prefer brand to generic, especially with OTC. I'm like standing there with a 1000ct bottle of Ibuprofen 200 saying this is $10 and the Advil is like $20 for like a 100ct, and they still wanna go with the Advil, apparently liquigels are better, wtf.

Yup, you nailed it. It was an intern with a Hispanic background talking to a patient of the same background. I am just lucky she wasn’t speaking in Spanish as I would have had no idea the nonsense she was validating.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

I’ve had plenty of experience in retail pharmacy. She had a few students in the past and I am not sure if she failed or passed some. But I did ask her what is something I need to work on and it was being more confident. And I said okay. I will definately work on that. I asked this a few days before mid eval. Later When I got my mid and final eval, it said lack of communication, below improvement on a bunch. And there were a bunch that were worst saying not acceptable. Idk what I did or or said that would be unacceptable, unless I said something inappropriate. Again it goes back to this preceptor knit picking/throwing me down on something that I said And added it in my eval and giving me a bad grade. This is instead of looking at the overall picture of what I did.

 

[wagrxm2000]

It definitely sounds like you might be having a hard time counseling/communicating effectively.

Which is a huge part of our job.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

No not at all right now. The preceptor is just mean. I have no problem talking to Doctor offices and stuff. And it all takes practice.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

as a pharmacist, it’s all about being a leader. I am having zero problems with my make up rotation now.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I guess my question is did you come here for opinions or to say it wasn't anything you did?

If anything even if you did a fine job, you've learned from this and should excel now going forward.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

I was showing this to y’all and sharing because I know people have had horror stories about rotations. But it seems my situation sounds horrible.

 

[VA77]

Kick ass on the rest of the rotations and make that preceptor look incompetent

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Oh god...all it takes is that one time a healthcare professional validates the belief that brand > generic (only applicable in soda drinks and electronics).
Something I noticed with my Spanish techs is that they don't say Brand or generic. They translate it over to Original or no-original. I've found working with Spanish patients that a lot of them prefer brand to generic, especially with OTC. I'm like standing there with a 1000ct bottle of Ibuprofen 200 saying this is $10 and the Advil is like $20 for like a 100ct, and they still wanna go with the Advil, apparently liquigels are better, wtf.

Weird.

I should note that that's probably specific to dominican & puerto Rican dialects.

Down here we say "Marca o genericos" pronounced "heh-nerricos", of course.

 

[lord999]

Some preceptors are dicks, but that's life. Your boss in the future might be the same way. Just gotta make the best of it or go elsewhere if you cant handle it. Nothing you can really do besides that.

TLDR: brush it off, learn from it, and move on

Actually, you might get a chance to retaliate when you get older. I certainly got even with one of the three preceptors who made my life hell when I was in rotations. I apparently screwed over another one of the three, but that was in a capacity where I just didn't act on something.

The people who say that revenge is an empty feeling have never done it right, it's phenomenal on a primal level and I still use it as my happy memory when the headaches of power get to me.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Actually, you might get a chance to retaliate when you get older. I certainly got even with one of the three preceptors who made my life hell when I was in rotations. I apparently screwed over another one of the three, but that was in a capacity where I just didn't act on something.

The people who say that revenge is an empty feeling have never done it right, it's phenomenal on a primal level and I still use it as my happy memory when the headaches of power get to me.

I need to hear this story.

 

[King2440]

Fair enough; your preceptor was hard.

Word of advice: Retail is mostly about micro management. The few lucky PICs and RPH will have a DM that doesn’t do this. But more than likely, you will be micro managed and you will either have to man up or find another field.


Welcome to corporate pharmacy.

 

[Thepharmstudent111]

Fair enough; your preceptor was hard.

Word of advice: Retail is mostly about micro management. The few lucky PICs and RPH will have a DM that doesn’t do this. But more than likely, you will be micro managed and you will either have to man up or find another field.


Welcome to corporate pharmacy.

,

 

[Son_Goku]

You failed a retail rotation?