Failed COMLEX-1 , want to get into Gas or Rad

[Laito]

Hi,

OMS III here. I have two red flags. Failed a class during my first semester of med school and now failed COMLEX 1. I would love to get into anesthesiology or radiology. If I pass all COMLEX level 1 and 2 and USMLE Step 1 and 2 with ~50th percentile, would I have a shot at either residencies?? Can a decent Step score overcome a failed COMLEX??

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[Spectreman]

When you have time would you mind going into some detail with why you failed (as best as you can assume). More relevant to advice people might give as well, what sort of changes have you made that tells you you’re ready to hit 50th percentile or better on these exams? Would love to hear how you made those changes.

Thanks.

 

[DO2015CA]

You are done with either one of those. Find something else. If you failed a comlex 1 then what makes you think you can pass step 1? Which is way harder.

 

[QueenJames]

welcome to the primary care team amigo!!!

 

[Giovanotto]

welcome to the primary care team amigo!!!

lmao

 

[sab3156]

ACGME Anesthesiology may not be out of the cards... it's not competitive at all, and some programs may be willing to overlook your COMLEX failure and your one failed class, if you show great scores on your first attempt on the Steps. It would also help to have research and letters from ACGME faculty. But you really need to be realistic and honest with yourself - if you failed COMLEX Level 1, you probably have a lot to overcome before you can even pass Step 1, let alone get an above average score.

In any case, ask on the Anesthesiology sub-forum and see if faculty/residents/fellows can give you more information on this.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

ACGME Anesthesiology may not be out of the cards... it's not competitive at all, and some programs may be willing to overlook your COMLEX failure and your one failed class, if you show great scores on your first attempt on the Steps. It would also help to have research and letters from ACGME faculty. But you really need to be realistic and honest with yourself - if you failed COMLEX Level 1, you probably have a lot to overcome before you can even pass Step 1, let alone get an above average score.

In any case, ask on the Anesthesiology sub-forum and see if faculty/residents/fellows can give you more information on this.

Nope, he’s cooked even for Gas. There are MDs that go unmatched for Gas due to failing Step 1. As a DO with a class failure after remediation and a board failure, it’s very unlikely.

The most realistic course of action is to explore what kind of stuff he can do in either FM or IM right now.

 

[sab3156]

Nope, he’s cooked even for Gas. There are MDs that go unmatched for Gas due to failing Step 1. As a DO with a class failure after remediation and a board failure, it’s very unlikely.

The most realistic course of action is to explore what kind of stuff he can do in either FM or IM right now.

Yeah but that's a Step 1 failure. My thinking is that he could do well on Step 1, and ACGME PDs probably could overlook the COMLEX and course remediation. Perhaps some faculty on the anesthesiology forum can give more specifics about this, but to be honest there is no point in even talking about specialty options until OP shows drastic improvement on the Steps, which will probably be a tough road after failing COMLEX Level 1.

OP might be doing well on clerkships, and with a solid Step 1 score and perhaps some research/ACGME letters, I don't see why he can't match Anesthesiology. Again, though, it's highly unrealistic for all these expectations to be met at this point.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Hi,

OMS III here. I have two red flags. Failed a class during my first semester of med school and now failed COMLEX 1. I would love to get into anesthesiology or radiology. If I pass all COMLEX level 1 and 2 and USMLE Step 1 and 2 with ~50th percentile, would I have a shot at either residencies?? Can a decent Step score overcome a failed COMLEX??

It's time to tailor your application toward FM, community IM or Pathology.

If you couldn't pass COMLEX 1 after dedicated, you can't start to fantasize about getting 50th percentile on 4 exams

 

[Rekt]

It's time to tailor your application toward FM, community IM or Pathology.

If you couldn't pass COMLEX 1 after dedicated, you can't start to fantasize about getting 50th percentile on 4 exams

This.

It sounds like you just got your COMLEX score, which means you were a student that was likely delayed in the first place by their school. You still don't have a passing score for Level 1. Step 1 is much harder than Level 1 and you expect to get around 50th percentile on that, which is very unlikely. I agree with the posts in this thread. You should forget all about Step 1 and put 100% focus into just passing Level 1. Then you can worry about FM vs IM later on.

 

[zero0]

Provided you can actually do well on boards from here on, you can probably find a program in either specialty to take you.

That said, I just don't see that happening considering your history.

You can take that as a personal challenge and work hard to redeem yourself from here on, or you can start looking at primary care/path.

 

[Laito]

Thanks everyone for the comments. To clarify my situation, I did pass my COMSAE with >500 about 2 months prior to my actual exam. After 8 weeks of dedicated time, I decided to postpone the COMLEX for another 3 weeks and cancel Step 1 due to crazy things that was happening in my life. Long story short, I could not get my **** straight and pretty much wasted that 3 weeks prior to the exam.
I know that, given my history, it's going to be an uphill battle. I believe I got my **** together now, and ready to tackle this. I don't won't to give up just yet.

 

[W19]

Thanks everyone for the comments. To clarify my situation, I did pass my COMSAE with >500 about 2 months prior to my actual exam. After 8 weeks of dedicated time, I decided to postpone the COMLEX for another 3 weeks and cancel Step 1 due to crazy things that was happening in my life. Long story short, I could not get my **** straight and pretty much wasted that 3 weeks prior to the exam.
I know that, given my history, it's going to be an uphill battle. I believe I got my **** together now, and ready to tackle this. I don't won't to give up just yet.

Have a plan B, even a plan C.

 

[ButterButter]

As a DO that matched ACGME anesthesia last year, I can say that the field is more competitive and my classmates that had > 600 COMLEX + > 220 Step 1 scores struggled to get a good number of interviews. So a COMLEX failure + class failure puts you at a severe disadvantage. I agree with those recommending another specialty.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

As a DO that matched ACGME anesthesia last year, I can say that the field is more competitive and my classmates that had > 600 COMLEX + > 220 Step 1 scores struggled to get a good number of interviews.

If only we had data for this last match that showed that you definitely don't need a 220/600+ to match anesthesia..... oh wait.

However, OP yes with a board failure you are likely done for anesthesia. I would start really trying to find an interest in FM or peds.

 

[ButterButter]

If only we had data for this last match that showed that you definitely don't need a 220/600+ to match anesthesia..... oh wait.

However, OP yes with a board failure you are likely done for anesthesia. I would start really trying to find an interest in FM or peds.

I wasn’t implying that you needed it, only that some of my colleagues struggled for interviews with stats that a few years ago guaranteed a good number of interviews.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I wasn’t implying that you needed it, only that some of my colleagues struggled for interviews with stats that a few years ago guaranteed a good number of interviews.

I can see that, especially if they weren't advised on what a good application strategy looked like. Now obviously I have no idea what your colleagues situation was but I've been astounded by how little some people know about how to match successfully. I mean like people applying to like 15 residency programs because, "well I applied to that many medical schools and it worked well so I'll do that with residency programs."

That is how you become one of the 2 people who don't match anesthesia with a 220+ (just an example, not related to your colleagues). DO school advising is even worse than the undergrad advisors that "help" people apply to medical school.

 

[sab3156]

As a DO that matched ACGME anesthesia last year, I can say that the field is more competitive

What you mean by "more competitive"? Objectively speaking, anesthesiology is not a competitive specialty. If anything, it has gotten less competitive than the past. The people who you said struggled to get interviews with 220, as stated above, probably had terribly misguided advice throughout the process.

 

[Hippocrates II]

What you mean by "more competitive"? Objectively speaking, anesthesiology is not a competitive specialty. If anything, it has gotten less competitive than the past. The people who you said struggled to get interviews with 220, as stated above, probably had terribly misguided advice throughout the process.

I interpreted their response as meaning anesthesia is more competitive than being able to walz into it with multiple board failures, not that it was overall very competitive.

 

[ButterButter]

What you mean by "more competitive"? Objectively speaking, anesthesiology is not a competitive specialty. If anything, it has gotten less competitive than the past. The people who you said struggled to get interviews with 220, as stated above, probably had terribly misguided advice throughout the process.

You originally mentioned that anesthesiology is "not competitive at all" so my comment was a response to that and my belief that OP is not competitive for gas for this application cycle. Looking at the history of the specialty's competitiveness over the past 20-30 years, it is experiencing a bit of an upswing, although still very much accessible to the average DO applicant. In the mid-late 90s, the anesthesia job market slumped substantially, and as a result, residencies experienced a drop in applicants for several years. The combination of poor job market and CRNA doom-and-gloom meant that the specialty was wide open well into the 2000s and applicants could scramble into programs no problem. While applicants for the 2017-2018 cycle increased per position only slightly from the previous year, PDs reported on almost every interview I attended that they'd experienced a surge in applications that year. That means that more applicants are applying to more programs on average. So anesthesia is not a competitive specialty unless, of course, you are a DO applicant with a class and board failure.

 

[Giovanotto]

I can see that, especially if they weren't advised on what a good application strategy looked like. Now obviously I have no idea what your colleagues situation was but I've been astounded by how little some people know about how to match successfully. I mean like people applying to like 15 residency programs because, "well I applied to that many medical schools and it worked well so I'll do that with residency programs."

That is how you become one of the 2 people who don't match anesthesia with a 220+ (just an example, not related to your colleagues). DO school advising is even worse than the undergrad advisors that "help" people apply to medical school.

What's a good starting place for this? I don't know the first thing about applying to residency. And, the bolded sounds perfectly reasonable...

 

[W19]

What's a good starting place for this? I don't know the first thing about applying to residency. And, the bolded sounds perfectly reasonable...

A good starting place is 30 even if you are applying to FM with 250 step1.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What's a good starting place for this? I don't know the first thing about applying to residency. And, the bolded sounds perfectly reasonable...

Depends on the field, I would reach out to residents from your school in the field you are applying to and get advice from them. The number you should apply to can vary between 30-120 depending on what you are going for, how competitive you are, and if you are applying to a competitive location.

 

[DrMcLovin]

What's a good starting place for this? I don't know the first thing about applying to residency. And, the bolded sounds perfectly reasonable...

This is a good book for someone who is clueless on residency matching - “Isersons getting into a residency: a guide for medical students- 8th edition.”

My advisor in med school recommended it and let me borrow a copy in 3rd year. It goes through everything. Highly recommend especially if you are clueless about the process.

 

[narcan't]

This is a good book for someone who is clueless on residency matching - “Isersons getting into a residency: a guide for medical students- 8th edition.”

My advisor in med school recommended it and let me borrow a copy in 3rd year. It goes through everything. Highly recommend especially if you are clueless about the process.

Did your advisor recommend how to afford it??!!?!

 

[DrMcLovin]

Did your advisor recommend how to afford it??!!?!View attachment 240487

Lol holy crap. It used to be $70! Definitely not worth >$1,000!

 

[narcan't]

Lol holy crap. It used to be $70! Definitely not worth >$1,000!

The older editions are ~$15 but I can't find the 8th edition for less than $1400. Guess someone caught on.

 

[DrMcLovin]

The older editions are ~$15 but I can't find the 8th edition for less than $1400. Guess someone caught on.

Thats really strange, I looked up the price right before I recommended it to make sure it was affordable. If they are still producing them the price will go back down once they are in stock. Maybe everyone was trying to get a copy with application season starting... who knows

 

[recycledpaper]

If you can do well on Step 1, you don’t even need to bring up COMLEX or make it available to your programs.

Rads is more competitive than anesthesia. But if you fail Step 1 then both will be out for you. I know a classmate that failed Step 2 CK and still matched her #1 by not submitting those scores.

 

[DrMcLovin]

The older editions are ~$15 but I can't find the 8th edition for less than $1400. Guess someone caught on.

Amazon product

That was strange it went up so high. Looks like its back down to a reasonable price.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If you can do well on Step 1, you don’t even need to bring up COMLEX or make it available to your programs.

Rads is more competitive than anesthesia. But if you fail Step 1 then both will be out for you. I know a classmate that failed Step 2 CK and still matched her #1 by not submitting those scores.

I think you need to make it available. You are required to pass these exams for licensing

 

[Wjldenver]

Hi,

OMS III here. I have two red flags. Failed a class during my first semester of med school and now failed COMLEX 1. I would love to get into anesthesiology or radiology. If I pass all COMLEX level 1 and 2 and USMLE Step 1 and 2 with ~50th percentile, would I have a shot at either residencies?? Can a decent Step score overcome a failed COMLEX??

I believe everyone should try to maximize their potential but... Since you are a DO with a couple of red flags, you need to have a few back-up plans in place including FM.

On a related note, I was talking to a 4th year student who is going to graduate from Johns Hopkins last night, and she hopes to match in Gas in Denver. And even she is worried that she will not make the cut to get the match she wants. That surprised me, but I’m sure she is worried for a reason. So she actively has a number of back-up plans in place since she has only received seven interviews so far this cycle.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I believe everyone should try to maximize their potential but... Since you are a DO with a couple of red flags, you need to have a few back-up plans in place including FM.

On a related note, I was talking to a 4th year student who is going to graduate from Johns Hopkins last night, and she hopes to match in Gas in Denver. And even she is worried that she will not make the cut to get the match she wants. That surprised me, but I’m sure she is worried for a reason. So she actively has a number of back-up plans in place since she has only received seven interviews so far this cycle.
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Backups for her mean applying to more Gas programs instead of the 10 programs that she is applying, in which the majority of the programs are top tiers.

Your point doesn’t apply to us plebeian DOs here

 

[alprazoslam]

Long story short plan for FM. ITs not to say you do not have a chance at anything else (likely though) but there are 95%ish of students who do not fail boards you are up against.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

Yeah but that's a Step 1 failure. My thinking is that he could do well on Step 1, and ACGME PDs probably could overlook the COMLEX and course remediation. Perhaps some faculty on the anesthesiology forum can give more specifics about this, but to be honest there is no point in even talking about specialty options until OP shows drastic improvement on the Steps, which will probably be a tough road after failing COMLEX Level 1.

OP might be doing well on clerkships, and with a solid Step 1 score and perhaps some research/ACGME letters, I don't see why he can't match Anesthesiology. Again, though, it's highly unrealistic for all these expectations to be met at this point.

Sab you're out of your mind here. Historically and statistically the vast majority who take both always does worse on Step 1, history is littered with the corpses of students' dreams who think they are special and can do better on step 1 after a bad comlex.

To follow your lack of current research on the competitiveness of anesthesia, this year the amount of applicants per spots has increased, and the overall number of anesthesia applicants has increased significantly as well. Applicants with my stats last year were sitting at 1.5x the amount of interviews I have, lower stat applicants who would have been comfortable last year are starting to sweat with 4 or less interviews this year. This trend will likely continue for the next few years, making the subsequent years application cycles even tougher.

OP is free to apply, and would be best applying to lower tier, community programs-but even for those he/she shouldn't hold his breath.

 

[alprazoslam]

Sab you're out of your mind here. Historically and statistically the vast majority who take both always does worse on Step 1, history is littered with the corpses of students' dreams who think they are special and can do better on step 1 after a bad comlex.

To follow your lack of current research on the competitiveness of anesthesia, this year the amount of applicants per spots has increased, and the overall number of anesthesia applicants has increased significantly as well. Applicants with my stats last year were sitting at 1.5x the amount of interviews I have, lower stat applicants who would have been comfortable last year are starting to sweat with 4 or less interviews this year. This trend will likely continue for the next few years, making the subsequent years application cycles even tougher.

OP is free to apply, and would be best applying to lower tier, community programs-but even for those he/she shouldn't hold his breath.

Yeah step one isn’t somebody’s savior. To pass step 1 is harder than to pass lollex

 

[jw3600]

welcome to the primary care team amigo!!!

****ing laughed out loud.

 

[sab3156]

Sab you're out of your mind here. Historically and statistically the vast majority who take both always does worse on Step 1, history is littered with the corpses of students' dreams who think they are special and can do better on step 1 after a bad comlex.

To follow your lack of current research on the competitiveness of anesthesia, this year the amount of applicants per spots has increased, and the overall number of anesthesia applicants has increased significantly as well. Applicants with my stats last year were sitting at 1.5x the amount of interviews I have, lower stat applicants who would have been comfortable last year are starting to sweat with 4 or less interviews this year. This trend will likely continue for the next few years, making the subsequent years application cycles even tougher.

OP is free to apply, and would be best applying to lower tier, community programs-but even for those he/she shouldn't hold his breath.

I think you failed to see that I said it is not even realistic and that there is no point in even talking about it further.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I have said numerous times on this forum that PDs are not interested in hiring problems. With a board failure and a course failure, the future is grim for anesthesia. Most PDs can fill their slots with people with average board scores and no course or board failures. I have a student with 240+ Usmle and not getting many interviews. I believe they are applying west coast and top 20 programs, so this may explain things. There is a chance for some small community anesthesia programs for OP, but it is small.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

What's a good starting place for this? I don't know the first thing about applying to residency. And, the bolded sounds perfectly reasonable...

Gio, I think you were low key trolling here, there is no way you don't know the answer to this question. 15 programs? You applying AOA cuz?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

So, what fields do you think OP should apply to? FM? IM? Peds?

I'm in agreement with any of the programs you suggest depending on OPs preference. OP could also take a research year off, and work on their app for anesthesia and board prep. This is a bit drastic and problematic in that loans come due.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Research year seems kinda low yield for a field that doesn’t care about research much (ie anesthesia) don’t ya think?

I think OP could match IM or Peds bearing that he/ she doesn’t want to do FM. Wouldn’t you agree?

Yes I would. I think anesthesia cares a little more about research than you might suggest, especially the better programs.

 

[UnoMas]

Yes I would. I think anesthesia cares a little more about research than you might suggest, especially the better programs.

Research is heavily emphasized at the top with quite a few programs trying to sell their 1-2 extra years of research on top of residency and/or carve out an extra 6 months during a 4 years residency for research. Kinda like IM, the vast majority of programs doesn't care but it certainly helps if you have it on your CV