Failed COMLEX level 1 twice. Can I still get into an IM residency?

[BillBill1219]

Apply for the HCA programs.

HCA community programs have filled with some very, very undesirable residents. Be a good person and amiable to work with and follow the above advice and you should be fine.

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[FootballAndSkiing]

HCA community programs have filled with some very, very undesirable residents. Be a good person and amiable to work with and follow the above advice and you should be fine.

Based on the one I rotated with, this is untrue. Stop generalizing, there are a lot of HCA IM programs.

 

[BillBill1219]

Based on the one I rotated with, this is untrue. Stop generalizing, there are a lot of HCA programs

Yes, they are community programs that often fill with SOAP applicants. By definition, not top-of-the-line in many cases. And I wasn’t even generalizing. My statement did not exclude the possibility of HCA programs filling with good residents just that there are many bad ones who dump into these programs. I don’t see how this is controversial.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yes, they are community programs that often fill with SOAP applicants. By definition, not top-of-the-line in many cases. And I wasn’t even generalizing. My statement did not exclude the possibility of HCA programs filling with good residents just that there are many bad ones who dump into these programs. I don’t see how this is controversial.

It's pretty generalizable is the thing.

HCA hospitals often aren't great environments for education. You can look up their ABIM pass rates and will find a lot of them below 70%.

 

[DO2015CA]

It's pretty generalizable is the thing.

HCA hospitals often aren't great environments for education. You can look up their ABIM pass rates and will find a lot of them below 70%.

What about to work after training?

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

It's pretty generalizable is the thing.

HCA hospitals often aren't great environments for education. You can look up their ABIM pass rates and will find a lot of them below 70%.

Did not know that data was out there. Thank you.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What about to work after training?

No clue.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Take Step 1 and try to pass it on first try. If you do that, can you just apply using Step 1 and not report Level 1 failure as a DO? or will it show up automatically because you are a DO?

You have to pass level 1 and 2 to graduate from DO school. No one’s interviewing a student who doesn’t submit evidence that they can graduate. While there are rare exceptions, generally someone who fails comlex has no business sitting for step 1.

HCA community programs have filled with some very, very undesirable residents. Be a good person and amiable to work with and follow the above advice and you should be fine.

OP is not a desirable applicant. Two board failures and mostly passes in rotations is not a situation where someone should be picky.

Current 4th year in dedicated for level 2. Like the title says, I failed level 1 twice and passed on the third try after focusing on the OMM aspect of the exam. I have been a below the average student up until third year where I became a bit more average passing all my shelf exams and getting a high pass (in surgery for some reason?). What do you guys recommend to get to an IM residency acceptance from my current predicament?

Ignoring the board failure red flags, most students honor at least some of their rotations. I don’t mean to pile on but no one’s mentioned this.

A random high pass in surgery and straight passes in everything else is kind of like a pink flag in and of itself.

Unless the breakdown on your MSPE shows this is normal at your school, it’s a bad look. A random pass here and there is likely NBD. But essentially all passes says “this guy/gal usually shows up on time and not much else.” The only lower grade is fail and you essentially have to set a patient on fire to fail a rotation.

I personally think there’s a very high chance you’ll end up in the SOAP. Be open to SOAPing FM or IM. Good luck on level 2.

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

HCA hospitals often aren't great environments for education. You can look up their ABIM pass rates and will find a lot of them below 70%.

Some of these ABIM passing numbers surprised me. Can these be manipulated by programs in any way? Similar to some DO schools not letting you take COMLEX without an above passing comsae.

 

[DO2015CA]

Some of these ABIM passing numbers surprised me. Can these be manipulated by programs in any way? Similar to some DO schools not letting you take COMLEX without an above passing comsae.

Nope. Unless they plan on retaining you. They have to submit a paper saying you were eligible to sit for the boards but it’s really “they have completed 80% of training and are eligible to sit for the boards”. They can’t make you pass some inservice exam to be eligible. I’m not IM so idk when their boards are but for peds it’s October after you graduate and you apply to sit in the spring. If the program is intending to graduate you then they’re going to have to turn in the paperwork

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There is almost no way I can see for programs to manipulate this. The only way to do so is to not graduate someone. If someone graduates enough off cycle, then they can't sit for the exam that year but can the next year. If a resident puts off taking the exam, they are counted on their first attempt no matter when it is. In addition, the total number taking the exam is reported -- you can compare that to 3x the number of categorical residents they take each year, and it should be close (again, some people may be off cycle due to pregnancy leaves, etc).

Interesting, there's some interest by programs to get rid of this report. The idea is that programs would be more comfortable taking residents/students with lower exam scores if they thought they would be good residents but do poorly on exams. This is just vague talk, no one has formally proposed anything. A more reasonable idea would be to report all programs that are >=85% as such, and anyone below with their actual score.

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Its crazy to me there are multiple programs in the 30s, especially when we are all used to >95% on NBME and NBOME exams, which these people obviously passed. But the average isn't too far off of that at about 90%. And also LECOM at 18? Thats 2/11. They have more than 3-4 residents each year right? Thats why I was unsure the if there is something I was missing.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Traditionally DO programs might have grads taking the ABOIM exam instead.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Traditionally DO programs might have grads taking the ABOIM exam instead.

Any DO can take it. Even those who completed an ACGME program.

To some extent It's sort of an advantage. People who struggle to pass ABIM can take AOBIM and pass it and then borderline with ease remain in their good grace without having to do a lot of the hoops that ABIM has set up to retain board certification.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Any DO can take it. Even those who completed an ACGME program.

To some extent It's sort of an advantage. People who struggle to pass ABIM can take AOBIM and pass it and then borderline with ease remain in their good grace without having to do a lot of the hoops that ABIM has set up to retain board certification.

Honestly, there's no point to taking ABIM except perhaps avoiding a few minor hassles when people don't understand that AOBIM is legally equivalent to ABIM

 

[DO2015CA]

Any DO can take it. Even those who completed an ACGME program.

To some extent It's sort of an advantage. People who struggle to pass ABIM can take AOBIM and pass it and then borderline with ease remain in their good grace without having to do a lot of the hoops that ABIM has set up to retain board certification.

With the merger even MDs can. I think more people should (MD and DO). Get them more on an actual competitor level. Keeps cost and runaway requirements down for physicians. In my specialty MD boards are 2200 and DO 1700.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

With the merger even MDs can. I think more people should (MD and DO). Get them more on an actual competitor level. Keeps cost and runaway requirements down for physicians. In my specialty MD boards are 2200 and DO 1700.

I think board exams just need to be abandoned. You passed ABIM once? Great. You just need to do X amount of CME a year to maintain boards.
No retaking exams. No Hoops to jump. Etc.