Failed Organic Chemistry Twice

[osi]

This is a long one! (Sorry!)

I just graduated last year in May and as the title says, I failed organic chemistry twice. I entered college originally as a pre-med major and did okay in some subjects and bad in others. Below is a copy of what's on my transcript.

PRIN BIOL II B
CHEM FUNDAMENTALS I C
CHEM I LABORATORY C
ELEM CALCULUS I D+
INTRO PSYCHOLOGY C
STUDENT IN UNIVERSITY A
GPA 2.200

PRIN BIOL I C
ORGANIC CHEMISTRY I (Withdrew)
ORGANIC CHEM LAB I B
ELEM CALCULUS I *Repeated Course* B 3.00 3.00 9.00 MS
GPA 2.909

PRIN BIOL III ORGANISMAL C
ORGANIC CHEMISTRY I *Repeated Course* D
ELEM CALCULUS II A

GPA Cumulative: 2.628

So here's some background info: I really, really love the sciences and I'll admit I struggled immensely my freshman and sophomore year of college. It wasn't because of personal reasons or because of lack of trying (I went to tutoring for orgo all semester long, plus talked to TA and professor). I did tried my hardest and do NOT want to give up. I ended up switching my major and got A's and B's all through my last three years of college (was a super senior) and graduated with GPA of 3.2. My love is in biology though and it's what I enjoy. I was so heartbroken that I nearly gave up on the sciences all together but I refuse to because I know I can do it and I'm very passionate about it.

My ultimate goal is to get a PhD in Biology and I know its going to be a struggle to get there and that it will take a long time and I'm prepare for that. So here's my question: How can I get back on track?

I've been studying over the summer on orgo chem (kept all of my textbooks) and have been looking into programs. Would a community college be a step in the right direction?

Thanks for you reply in advance!

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[CognitiveSci]

Let's be honest; how much effort did you put in? If you could only just pass with maximum effort, then maybe the sciences aren't for you. On the other hand, if your grades are a result of laziness and half-assing, then it will be VERY hard for grad schools to forgive that. How do they know you won't make the same mistakes in their program?

I'm in a similar space right now (haven't failed anything and my GPA is still above a 3.0 with 2 years to go). However I've learned that I don't always put full effort, and then get angry with myself for once again letting disinterest and laziness win.

You got that GPA up quite a lot by graduation, so I think you picked up and have matured, which is what it comes down to; maturing and realizing that this is your life and you can't keep messing up or you won't get anywhere.

My advice would be to perhaps take a year off and take some higher level sciences (if you haven't already taken most of them for your degree), and show the adcoms that you know what you're doing.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yah, I agree with the advice above. You're getting a lot of bad grades and I think it's mostly because you're not taking college seriously enough. You need to realize that if you want a PhD you'll need to get stronger grades and strong research ( if you're not working in a lab now, immediately look for labs in fields you're interested in).

My recommendation is take a lighter semester next semester and get into research. The lighter semester will build tracts for you to follow so you can slowly step up to tackling harder classes as a student and the research will teach you time management and a whole bunch of other skills.

Also if you feel like you're putting a lot of effort and not getting enough out of it, then I recommend seeing a psychologist to see if you may have an undiagnosed learning disorder. If not, then try harder and if that doesn't work then science might not be for you.

 

[osi]

Yah, I agree with the advice above. You're getting a lot of bad grades and I think it's mostly because you're not taking college seriously enough. You need to realize that if you want a PhD you'll need to get stronger grades and strong research ( if you're not working in a lab now, immediately look for labs in fields you're interested in).

My recommendation is take a lighter semester next semester and get into research. The lighter semester will build tracts for you to follow so you can slowly step up to tackling harder classes as a student and the research will teach you time management and a whole bunch of other skills.

Also if you feel like you're putting a lot of effort and not getting enough out of it, then I recommend seeing a psychologist to see if you may have an undiagnosed learning disorder. If not, then try harder and if that doesn't work then science might not be for you.

I'm pretty sure I have no learning disorder (like I said, I got all A's and B's last three years or six semesters, not a single C! I worked VERY HARD to pull up my GPA). I know the first semester I was overwhelmed and did not do well because I wasn't ready for the load of work. Also, these were large classes (250 ppl or so) and I'm looking for smaller class sizes for more individual attention.

No offense, but I would love advice on how to move forward. I know I did bad (I was working full time to pay for college since parents could afford three kids in college at once), but I honestly tried (maybe not my hardest at the time), that has been addrssed, but I'm very serious now and would like some honest advice.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

You have so many credits at this point (5 years worth) it's going to be hard to change your GPA significantly. What did your major end up being and what are you doing right now if you graduated last May?

 

[osi]

You have so many credits at this point (5 years worth) it's going to be hard to change your GPA significantly. What did your major end up being and what are you doing right now if you graduated last May?

The reason I was a super senior was because I had to make up the core classes for the major I switched to (Art studio). I am working as a bilingual teacher for the DC public school system at the moment with children with learning disabilities (specifically juvenile Autism). I don't care much about my overall GPA, but more on my science (since most of the weight for consideration is applied there in my opinion).

I have not taken ALL of the pre-requisite courses for a science major, just a few. So I can stil raise it if I work hard and get an A in orgo ! and then Orgo 2 as well as the other bio courses. I'm not sure how math factors into this, but I've only taken two math courses and at U of MD (where I graduated from), physics was a core class and so was anatomy. So if I get an A on all the other required courses, will my GPA be high enough? At this point in my life, I am serious and not playing around especially since this is coming out of my pocket.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

So what exactly is your gpa now? 2.9 after having 3 years of good grades or what?
Have you considered retaking courses in the UMD post-bacc program? Also what's your research like anyway?

 

[osi]

So what exactly is your gpa now? 2.9 after having 3 years of good grades or what?
Have you considered retaking courses in the UMD post-bacc program? Also what's your research like anyway?

I graduated with an overall gpa of 3.211 and research as in pre-medical research? I don't have any at the moment and was hoping to raise my science grades up so I can get into a masters program with research/thesis.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I graduated with an overall gpa of 3.211 and research as in pre-medical research? I don't have any at the moment and was hoping to raise my science grades up so I can get into a masters program with research/thesis.

As in PhD programs want to see some kind of lab work before you apply so you know what you're doing. You should try to get a job in a lab in some capacity.

You really don't seem like you know what you want to do here. You've never worked in a lab but you're convinced you want to do a biology PhD? I'd suggest getting some exposure first. Working in a lab can be boring as hell.

It's going to be a bit more difficult now that you aren't officially a student anywhere but there are usually job postings for lab techs and stuff at local universities.

 

[osi]

As in PhD programs want to see some kind of lab work before you apply so you know what you're doing. You should try to get a job in a lab in some capacity.

You really don't seem like you know what you want to do here. You've never worked in a lab but you're convinced you want to do a biology PhD? I'd suggest getting some exposure first. Working in a lab can be boring as hell.

It's going to be a bit more difficult now that you aren't officially a student anywhere but there are usually job postings for lab techs and stuff at local universities.

I would like to eventually get there and I have a pretty good idea in what I'd want to specialize (virology), but I'm not going to go straight into PhD. I need to get off the ground first so to speak.

I"m sorry, I don't think I explained my self very clearly. Does anyone know of any post-bac programs that will accept my low gpa and help me get there? Would community college be the step in the right direction and then transferring eventually getting a second bachelors in the sciences? Should I just take required science courses individually from an accredited university and then applying? I'm not sure in which direction I should go or which is best.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I would like to eventually get there and I have a pretty good idea in what I'd want to specialize (virology), but I'm not going to go straight into PhD. I need to get off the ground first so to speak.

I"m sorry, I don't think I explained my self very clearly. Does anyone know of any post-bac programs that will accept my low gpa and help me get there? Would community college be the step in the right direction and then transferring eventually getting a second bachelors in the sciences? Should I just take required science courses individually from an accredited university and then applying? I'm not sure in which direction I should go or which is best.

Still not sure what you're trying to accomplish. PhD first, then MD? This is a premed forum, there is a seperate MD/PhD forum that might be of help, but the help is going to sparse here. Postbaccs won't help you into PhD programs. Look for MS programs (with very liberal acceptance requirements).

And who let you tutor organic chemistry? Just saying.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I would like to eventually get there and I have a pretty good idea in what I'd want to specialize (virology), but I'm not going to go straight into PhD. I need to get off the ground first so to speak.

I"m sorry, I don't think I explained my self very clearly. Does anyone know of any post-bac programs that will accept my low gpa and help me get there? Would community college be the step in the right direction and then transferring eventually getting a second bachelors in the sciences? Should I just take required science courses individually from an accredited university and then applying? I'm not sure in which direction I should go or which is best.

Honestly with a 3.2 your gpa is decent enough for a decent masters program in virology ( Pending you get a good gre). Afterward if you do well enough in your masters program, publish a decent thesis you'll be on your way to decent PhD program. But again, with no research experience I'm honestly doubtful you have any clue of what you're getting into. So you may want to try to go work in a lab before deciding, because frankly there is a difference between liking to learn, learning more about something, and doing research.

The question you want to ask here is really whether you're a consumer of research knowledge or whether you're a person who wants to construct and develop new research knowledge.

 

[osi]

Still not sure what you're trying to accomplish. PhD first, then MD? This is a premed forum, there is a seperate MD/PhD forum that might be of help, but the help is going to sparse here. Postbaccs won't help you into PhD programs. Look for MS programs (with very liberal acceptance requirements).

And who let you tutor organic chemistry? Just saying.

Haha, I did NOT tutor organic chemistry, I received tutoring! I would feel sorry for anyone I tutored in orgo, instant fail.

Thank you for your reply! Yours has been the best so far. What am I trying to accomplish? How to get from where I am now (look at first post) on the road to a PhD. I might have posted in the wrong forum then. I wasn't sure of route to go. My idea was this: (1) Take pre-req courses for a masters, (2) Apply to masters program, (3) Apply for PhD, but number (1) is my problem since I don't know how to raise my science gpa.

Thanks anyways.

 

[as1212559]

This is a long one! (Sorry!)

I just graduated last year in May and as the title says, I failed organic chemistry twice. I entered college originally as a pre-med major and did okay in some subjects and bad in others. Below is a copy of what's on my transcript.

PRIN BIOL II B
CHEM FUNDAMENTALS I C
CHEM I LABORATORY C
ELEM CALCULUS I D+
INTRO PSYCHOLOGY C
STUDENT IN UNIVERSITY A
GPA 2.200

PRIN BIOL I C
ORGANIC CHEMISTRY I (Withdrew)
ORGANIC CHEM LAB I B
ELEM CALCULUS I *Repeated Course* B 3.00 3.00 9.00 MS
GPA 2.909

PRIN BIOL III ORGANISMAL C
ORGANIC CHEMISTRY I *Repeated Course* D
ELEM CALCULUS II A

GPA Cumulative: 2.628

So here's some background info: I really, really love the sciences and I'll admit I struggled immensely my freshman and sophomore year of college. It wasn't because of personal reasons or because of lack of trying (I went to tutoring for orgo all semester long, plus talked to TA and professor). I did tried my hardest and do NOT want to give up. I ended up switching my major and got A's and B's all through my last three years of college (was a super senior) and graduated with GPA of 3.2. My love is in biology though and it's what I enjoy. I was so heartbroken that I nearly gave up on the sciences all together but I refuse to because I know I can do it and I'm very passionate about it.

My ultimate goal is to get a PhD in Biology and I know its going to be a struggle to get there and that it will take a long time and I'm prepare for that. So here's my question: How can I get back on track?

I've been studying over the summer on orgo chem (kept all of my textbooks) and have been looking into programs. Would a community college be a step in the right direction?

Thanks for you reply in advance!

Those are your first year classes? That looks vaguely similar to my performance in fr/soph year. I got mostly B's though, not mostly C's. But I also turned it on and got only one B my last two years. If you graduated with a 3.2 you aren't a million miles off from having a shot a DO programs. One year of retakes on intro courses and your GPA would probably be reasonable.

If you want a Ph.D. I'm not sure what the point of posting here is. Go research some Ph.D. programs. You probably aren't too far off of them either.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Haha, I did NOT tutor organic chemistry, I received tutoring! I would feel sorry for anyone I tutored in orgo, instant fail.

Thank you for your reply! Yours has been the best so far. What am I trying to accomplish? How to get from where I am now (look at first post) on the road to a PhD. I might have posted in the wrong forum then. I wasn't sure of route to go. My idea was this: (1) Take pre-req courses for a masters, (2) Apply to masters program, (3) Apply for PhD, but number (1) is my problem since I don't know how to raise my science gpa.

Thanks anyways.

Sorry for my reading comprehension fail. You definitely need to first find an MS program to take you. It will be a 1-2 year commitment to see how much you really like lab science. As others have eloquently pointed out, "liking" biology/virology enough to spend 60 hours a week in a hood culturing cells for SEVEN.STRAIGHT.YEARS is something you might want to ease into with a masters. There are programs that will take you; you need a solid GRE score. Best of luck.

 

[osi]

Honestly with a 3.2 your gpa is decent enough for a decent masters program in virology ( Pending you get a good gre). Afterward if you do well enough in your masters program, publish a decent thesis you'll be on your way to decent PhD program. But again, with no research experience I'm honestly doubtful you have any clue of what you're getting into. So you may want to try to go work in a lab before deciding, because frankly there is a difference between liking to learn, learning more about something, and doing research.

The question you want to ask here is really whether you're a consumer of research knowledge or whether you're a person who wants to construct and develop new research knowledge.

Thank you serenade!!! This is more of the reply I was looking for. My problem is that most master's programs require classes that I haven't taken yet so I was sure if a community college would a good idea to take those classes in or if I should do them in a four year institution. I'm not worried about lab work yet since I've done research and most master programs I'm looking at are research oriented and are okay if you don't have research experience. Plus, if I go on the second bachelor's route, I can do that while taking the courses. I know that there is a difference between liking to learn and doing research. I've done some small research projects (of course nothing major and not for science unfortunately) so I'm prepared for that and I have an idea of the workload.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Thank you serenade!!! This is more of the reply I was looking for. My problem is that most master's programs require classes that I haven't taken yet so I was sure if a community college would a good idea to take those classes in or if I should do them in a four year institution. I'm not worried about lab work yet since I've done research and most master programs I'm looking at are research oriented and are okay if you don't have research experience. Plus, if I go on the second bachelor's route, I can do that while taking the courses. I know that there is a difference between liking to learn and doing research. I've done some small research projects (of course nothing major and not for science unfortunately) so I'm prepared for that and I have an idea of the workload.

I'd recommend taking them at a 4 year university, but it's up to you. Most graduate programs aren't very knit picky about having every course from harvard, they really care more about your research. Anyways, so you've done research in a laboratory setting then, i.e under a PI? How many semesters/ months, did you get any publishings.
Also why exactly do you want to spend more time for a second bachelors? Just take a semester or a year and complete your prereqs. I mean what exactly haven't you completed that you need to?
Also what's your GRE score?

 

[osi]

I'd recommend taking them at a 4 year university, but it's up to you. Most graduate programs aren't very knit picky about having every course from harvard, they really care more about your research. Anyways, so you've done research in a laboratory setting then, i.e under a PI? How many semesters/ months, did you get any publishings.
Also why exactly do you want to spend more time for a second bachelors? Just take a semester or a year and complete your prereqs. I mean what exactly haven't you completed that you need to?
Also what's your GRE score?

No publishing/ etc., I just meant that I know the workload since in undergrad for the labs they would give us small 'research' projects. Of course this is NOTHING compared to what comes with a PhD, but I really enjoyed and loved it. I don't mind the boring part of it and the waiting, etc. My goal is to get into a masters program with a research/thesis so I can get more experience and I've already looked at several programs to help with laboratory experience (NIH has a really good one that I have on my list to apply for, but I dont meet requirements yet).

I'm studying for GRE now and taking it in June.

I want to get into UMD's virology masters program. This is what they require: "coursework in advanced areas of biology as well as at least one year of calculus, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics. Able students with deficiencies in a particular area may be admitted and the deficiency corrected after enrollment." (straight off the site).

The program also offers lab rotations so at the end you can pick which lab to work on and focus for PhD

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

No publishing/ etc., I just meant that I know the workload since in undergrad for the labs they would give us small 'research' projects. Of course this is NOTHING compared to what comes with a PhD, but I really enjoyed and loved it. I don't mind the boring part of it and the waiting, etc. My goal is to get into a masters program with a research/thesis so I can get more experience and I've already looked at several programs to help with laboratory experience (NIH has a really good one that I have on my list to apply for, but I dont meet requirements yet).

I'm studying for GRE now and taking it in June.

I want to get into UMD's virology masters program. This is what they require: "coursework in advanced areas of biology as well as at least one year of calculus, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics. Able students with deficiencies in a particular area may be admitted and the deficiency corrected after enrollment." (straight off the site).

The program also offers lab rotations so at the end you can pick which lab to work on and focus for PhD

Yah, that's not research, that's coursework. And yes, UMD is a rotation school for the bio program, which has benefits and negatives, i.e you get a better idea of what to choose, but you waste a year before doing research. Also I'm not sure UMD have any terminal masters programs tbh, I think we only have PhD programs.

 

[osi]

Yah, that's not research, that's coursework. And yes, UMD is a rotation school for the bio program, which has benefits and negatives, i.e you get a better idea of what to choose, but you waste a year before doing research. Also I'm not sure UMD have any terminal masters programs tbh, I think we only have PhD programs.

Okay, thanks! Either way not to worried on research since in their FAQ for the program it said if you haven't decided that its no problem.

Also, I'm not looking for a terminal master's program either since my goal is a PhD.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Okay, thanks! Either way not to worried on research since in their FAQ for the program it said if you haven't decided that its no problem.

Also, I'm not looking for a terminal master's program either since my goal is a PhD.

Actually you should be really worried about research. Sorry, but if you don't do research you have no idea what you're getting into.
Also you're not understanding what I'm saying. UMD has no masters programs in biology to my knowledge. What a terminal masters degree is simply a degree program that ends with a masters. Maryland only has PhD programs I think. We award a masters only if you do the PhD and decide your third year that you hate it and then leave with a masters.

 

[osi]

Actually you should be really worried about research. Sorry, but if you don't do research you have no idea what you're getting into.
Also you're not understanding what I'm saying. UMD has no masters programs in biology to my knowledge. What a terminal masters degree is simply a degree program that ends with a masters. Maryland only has PhD programs I think. We award a masters only if you do the PhD and decide your third year that you hate it and then leave with a masters.

Sorry if I came off as misunderstanding what you said. I know what a terminal master's program is and (got a bit confused when I looked at the site) but I was looking into their Virology Graduate Training Program.

I've decided to just get a second bachelors and while working on that start doing research. I talked to a few other people and they suggested this would be a better way about i and my best bet.

Thank you for all the advice and help serenade.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Actually you should be really worried about research. Sorry, but if you don't do research you have no idea what you're getting into.
Also you're not understanding what I'm saying. UMD has no masters programs in biology to my knowledge. What a terminal masters degree is simply a degree program that ends with a masters. Maryland only has PhD programs I think. We award a masters only if you do the PhD and decide your third year that you hate it and then leave with a masters.

Sorry if I came off as misunderstanding what you said. I know what a terminal master's program is and (got a bit confused when I looked at the site) but I was looking into their Virology Graduate Training Program.

I've decided to just get a second bachelors and while working on that start doing research. I talked to a few other people and they suggested this would be a better way about i and my best bet.

Thank you for all the advice and help serenade.

Yah, I think we only offer a 4 year PhD in virology, no Masters option. But yes, what bachelors are you going for? I do honestly recommend just going for a Biomedical science degree for 2 years and doing research that way instead of doing a second bachelors though in the same time. But I guess it's up to you.

But yah, good luck.

 

[battousai]

No publishing/ etc., I just meant that I know the workload since in undergrad for the labs they would give us small 'research' projects. Of course this is NOTHING compared to what comes with a PhD, but I really enjoyed and loved it. I don't mind the boring part of it and the waiting, etc. My goal is to get into a masters program with a research/thesis so I can get more experience and I've already looked at several programs to help with laboratory experience (NIH has a really good one that I have on my list to apply for, but I dont meet requirements yet).

I'm studying for GRE now and taking it in June.

I want to get into UMD's virology masters program. This is what they require: "coursework in advanced areas of biology as well as at least one year of calculus, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics. Able students with deficiencies in a particular area may be admitted and the deficiency corrected after enrollment." (straight off the site).

The program also offers lab rotations so at the end you can pick which lab to work on and focus for PhD

I would talk to many different PIs about your background. From the quote you gave us, it looks like you can take classes you're missing while you're in your grad program. If you find a PI who's willing to work with you, then all you need is a GRE and you can take all the prereqs as a grad student.

 

[CrimsonKing]

You are either:
1. Way too lazy to have a chance at success in medical school even if you got in.

OR

2. TERRIBLE at understanding science, in which case you also have no chance at success in medical school even if you got in.

Choose something else.

In b4 "Everyone should try to get into medicine if it's what they really want!"

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

You are either:
1. Way too lazy to have a chance at success in medical school even if you got in.

OR

2. TERRIBLE at understanding science, in which case you also have no chance at success in medical school even if you got in.

Choose something else.

In b4 "Everyone should try to get into medicine if it's what they really want!"

Dude doesn't want to get into medical school.
Strong reading comprehension.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You are either:
1. Way too lazy to have a chance at success in medical school even if you got in.

OR

2. TERRIBLE at understanding science, in which case you also have no chance at success in medical school even if you got in.

Choose something else.

In b4 "Everyone should try to get into medicine if it's what they really want!"

He also got good grades the following 3 years. But yah, tl;dr I see.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Dude doesn't want to get into medical school.
Strong reading comprehension.

It's the pre-allo forum. No one here knows squat about graduate programs that aren't attached to medicine.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

It's the pre-allo forum. No one here knows squat about graduate programs that aren't attached to medicine.

Although I'd agree this isn't the best place to post this, speak for yourself bud. There are definitely people who have completed regular masters or PhD programs applying to medical school. There are also plenty of medical students who know friends and classmates in regular PhD programs.

One of my best friends I worked in lab with in undergrad and I hang out with regularly is in one of the better Mol Bio PhD programs in Chicago....think I have a pretty good understanding of the application process since we basically went through our application processes in parallel.

Don't be sad you didn't actually read the OP.