Failed out of MD, do I have a chance at getting admitted to lower tier DO?

[Gilakend]

Everyone keeps saying go PA/NP/AA/Pod, but does anyone actually know if that’s viable?

From my knowledge, those programs aren’t exactly easy to just walk in to. OPs GPA would be below average (except for pod maybe) and they might see it as risky, maybe even offensive, to accept someone after they failed out of their first choice.

I’m not saying it isn’t possible, I’m just wondering if anyone has any precedent of anyone who has done this before.

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[Deecee2DO]

Everyone keeps saying go PA/NP/AA/Pod, but does anyone actually know if that’s viable?

From my knowledge, those programs aren’t exactly easy to just walk in to. OPs GPA would be below average (except for pod maybe) and they might see it as risky, maybe even offensive, to accept someone after they failed out of their first choice.

I’m not saying it isn’t possible, I’m just wondering if anyone has any precedent of anyone who has done this before.

Pod and NP are. They are pretty darn easy to get into as long as you take the MCAT for pod youll get in somewhere. PA is the hardest of those and could be a stretch

 

[Deecee2DO]

Everyone keeps saying go PA/NP/AA/Pod, but does anyone actually know if that’s viable?

From my knowledge, those programs aren’t exactly easy to just walk in to. OPs GPA would be below average (except for pod maybe) and they might see it as risky, maybe even offensive, to accept someone after they failed out of their first choice.

I’m not saying it isn’t possible, I’m just wondering if anyone has any precedent of anyone who has done this before.

Offensive? lol nah man. First of all OP had good enough stats to get accepted at a US MD program so his gpa is certainly good enough for Pod or NP. And in med school not sure what his grading system is but it probably would say P on most if not all his classes if its P/F or even F/P/HP/H. He failed boards not his classes. I would be shocked if a pod program didnt take him

 

[WalSlave]

PA admissions are pretty ruthless when it comes to screening out candidates they deem as failed pre meds “settling” for PA school, to the point that I wouldn’t even report a MCAT score to them if I was applying now. I can’t imagine they’d be super warm to the idea of being Plan C or D for dismissed medical students.

Also, regarding transfer credits. Yeah, not a thing with PA schools. Never gonna happen. A simple google search of your choice program will reveal this. I know SDN is heavy handed on the “mid-level” snark, but real talk. Being a PA isn’t some kind of 50%-off discounted accelerated degree participation trophy one gets for miserably attempting medical school because one still feels entitled to practice medicine and lay hands on patients. For that, I direct you to an accelerated BSN->NP online program (I kid I kid.. kinda).

Seriously though, why not an accelerated BSN program? The world really is a RN’s oyster, and I know some seriously ballin’ nurses who easily sling six figures, not to mention their schooling is cheaper. I could go on all day about the interesting roles RNs can pursue. It can also be extremely rewarding work, and you can certainly still be an expert of your field. Nobody crosses an ICU nurse who knows his/her stuff.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Seriously though, why not an accelerated BSN program? The world really is a RN’s oyster, and I know some seriously ballin’ nurses who easily sling six figures, not to mention their schooling is cheaper. I could go on all day about the interesting roles RNs can pursue. It can also be extremely rewarding work, and you can certainly still be an expert of your field. Nobody crosses an ICU nurse who knows his/her stuff.

I have no interest in bedside nursing. I'm thinking about a PMHNP program I could complete in 2 years. Accelerated RN, then accelerated MSN.

 

[Going Incognito]

Cut your losses and go with AA, NP, PA, podiatry, etc. You failed Step 1 three times. After having three chances and blowing them all, you know we're not talking about a fluke. It should be remarkably clear to you that you just don't have the motivation and/or intelligence to thoroughly prepare for medical board exams. Medicine turned out to not be the right path for you. Find something else that would fulfill you. Don't make the same mistake twice.

I'm not saying the above to be harsh. I just know of one SDN user (whom I won't name) who has spent decades going in and out of various medical schools, accumulating an endless list of board failures while desperately trying to become a practicing physician. For this hopeless cause, she has piled on mountains of debt and given up precious time with her family and friends. It's just not worth it.

Why do people think that failing out of medical school means that an individual can get into PA school? PA school is very competitive now, even those programs that emphasize more on healthcare experience than grades.

As far as Podiatry, the individual will more than likely struggle with the coursework again.

 

[WalSlave]

I have no interest in bedside nursing. I'm thinking about a PMHNP program I could complete in 2 years. Accelerated RN, then accelerated MSN.

Fair enough, and you’ll still have the RN which will always guarantee you can find work. I’d bet you’ll gain an acceptance. Make sure you seriously consider the job market for NPs/PAs first so at least you can go into it prepared to hustle from day 1. The new grad PA market is frankly... not good, and the NP market is tightening up even faster depending on the area. A lot of physicians/employers have developed pretty strong feelings about the absurd number of online NP programs. Try to go brick and mortar if you can.

In my area which is supposedly a fantastic state for PAs, I’ve seen starting salaries dip as low as 75-80k and a certain closeby state with a certain predominate hospital system is notoriously offering their new hire midlevels a salary in the 60s. Obviously these are healthy salaries for the average American, but 60k becomes poverty real quick with a mortgage-size student loan sucking it dry. Gone are the days of new-grad PAs/NPs holding 3-4 job offers upon graduation. The majority can’t land a job until well after graduation. On top of that you’ll be lucky to start out full time with bennies.

Not trying to dissuade anyone reading this, especially OP. I think med school would serve one well in being a NP. And yes, I know some of this depends on where you want to live. Just do your homework and always negotiate. Also check out the NP subreddit for a healthy dose of reality, and some good insight.

 

[Osminog]

Why does everyone think that failing out of medical school means that an individual can get into PA school? PA school is very competitive now, even those programs that emphasize more on healthcare experience than grades.

According to CASPA data, for URM matriculants, the average stats were: 3.5 cGPA, 3.4 sGPA, and ~50th percentile GRE.

OP is a URM with 3.4/3.3 GPAs and a 27 MCAT, which would probably translate to an above-average GRE score. I'm not saying he'd be a shoo-in (especially with the medical school dismissal), but I'd say his odds of admission would be decent if he were to apply smartly and broadly.

 

[Deecee2DO]

PA admissions are pretty ruthless when it comes to screening out candidates they deem as failed pre meds “settling” for PA school, to the point that I wouldn’t even report a MCAT score to them if I was applying now. I can’t imagine they’d be super warm to the idea of being Plan C or D for dismissed medical students.

Also, regarding transfer credits. Yeah, not a thing with PA schools. Never gonna happen. A simple google search of your choice program will reveal this. I know SDN is heavy handed on the “mid-level” snark, but real talk. Being a PA isn’t some kind of 50%-off discounted accelerated degree participation trophy one gets for miserably attempting medical school because one still feels entitled to practice medicine and lay hands on patients. For that, I direct you to an accelerated BSN->NP online program (I kid I kid.. kinda).

Seriously though, why not an accelerated BSN program? The world really is a RN’s oyster, and I know some seriously ballin’ nurses who easily sling six figures, not to mention their schooling is cheaper. I could go on all day about the interesting roles RNs can pursue. It can also be extremely rewarding work, and you can certainly still be an expert of your field. Nobody crosses an ICU nurse who knows his/her stuff.

You are def right about PA. It is NOT easy to get accepted to PA school by any means, however NP or Pod would be in OPs ballpark for sure. The clinical hours required for PA school is literally insane (way more than MD/DO). Have to have pretty solid GPA for PA school too, so it is not a walk in the park and I'm sure they have failed out MD/DOs on their radar but this is of course anecdotal. Def some options for OP in healthcare if he is not picky. IMHO I don't think PA school is completely out of the question though if he applies broadly/smart and gets an above average GRE score

 

[Going Incognito]

Did not see that. Makes sense now. Getting into a US DO school may be very difficult at this point but nothing is impossible. Look at Pod, PA, NP if u wanna stay in healthcare. Youll have boards for them too but I dont think theyll be as difficult as Step 1 which is probably one of if not the hardest standardized test of any professional school or graduate level program. Sorry OP this is isnt easy to deal with im sure but itll workout someway or another in the end no matter what it ends up being. Dont quote me on this but if you passed all preclinical if you apply to Pod PA or NP you may be able to remediate some classes since you already passed all courses in first two years med school. Try and see if you can get more info on that to see if you would be allowed to start halfway thru the program and save some money

No, this is absolutely hands down not true. I have a doctorate in Geophysics, and the exams were definitely harder. In addtion to physics, we had to know very advanced math, oceanography, geology, chemistry, meteorology, and the list goes on. It is this way for most physical science programs, even at the masters level.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Pod is doable if he isn’t picky. I’m more worried about if OP can get through the first two years of Pod cause it’s basically the same. But, OP said he didn’t fail anything, so that’s encouraging and it will be the 2nd time seeing it. Op will also need a good explanation for choosing podiatry besides “I couldn’t hack it at MD school, so DPM please”.

OP will prolly not get into every Pod school he applies to. OPs MCAT is good and GPA too.

It really depends on if OP wants to be a doctor anymore or not. If he doesn’t, a lot more options open up to him. Podiatry and maybe optometry are the only “doctor” paths open at this point. If those, Podiatry is gonna be the closest to being a “doctor”.

OP, have you thought about programming?

You are def right about PA. It is NOT easy to get accepted to PA school by any means, however NP or Pod would be in OPs ballpark for sure. The clinical hours required for PA school is literally insane (way more than MD/DO). Have to have pretty solid GPA for PA school too, so it is not a walk in the park and I'm sure they have failed out MD/DOs on their radar but this is of course anecdotal. Def some options for OP in healthcare if he is not picky. IMHO I don't think PA school is completely out of the question though if he applies broadly/smart and gets an above average GRE score

 

[Deecee2DO]

No, this is absolutely hands down not true. I have a doctorate in Geophysics, and the exams were definitely harder. In addtion to physics, we had to know very advanced math, oceanography, geology, chemistry, meteorology, and the list goes on. It is this way for most physical science programs, even at the masters level.

Lol you know what I meant

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

You know...... friends that got dismissed from nursing school have all given me the "failed by 1 point!" spiel and I'm just like "Mhhhmmmmmmm......" but there has to be a few layers of safety net there. If you truly get dismissed from failing by 1 point 1 time if all other work in med school is acceptable then that is truly terrifying........

 

[psychMDhopefully]

You know...... friends that got dismissed from nursing school have all given me the "failed by 1 point!" spiel and I'm just like "Mhhhmmmmmmm......" but there has to be a few layers of safety net there. If you truly get dismissed from failing by 1 point 1 time if all other work in med school is acceptable then that is truly terrifying........

I honestly wish I would have failed it by a lot, it would have hurt less. My first 2 scores were really low then a big jump to 193 missing passing mark of 194 by 1 point.

 

[Going Incognito]

Pod is doable if he isn’t picky. I’m more worried about if OP can get through the first two years of Pod cause it’s basically the same. But, OP said he didn’t fail anything, so that’s encouraging and it will be the 2nd time seeing it. Op will also need a good explanation for choosing podiatry besides “I couldn’t hack it at MD school, so DPM please”.

OP will prolly not get into every Pod school he applies to. OPs MCAT is good and GPA too.

It really depends on if OP wants to be a doctor anymore or not. If he doesn’t, a lot more options open up to him. Podiatry and maybe optometry are the only “doctor” paths open at this point. If those, Podiatry is gonna be the closest to being a “doctor”.

OP, have you thought about programming?

Exactly what I was going to say!

 

[fldoctorgirl]

You know...... friends that got dismissed from nursing school have all given me the "failed by 1 point!" spiel and I'm just like "Mhhhmmmmmmm......" but there has to be a few layers of safety net there. If you truly get dismissed from failing by 1 point 1 time if all other work in med school is acceptable then that is truly terrifying........

OP took the exam 3 times, and failed by 1 point on his/her third attempt after failing by much more the first two times.

 

[Podstar]

I know a couple of pod students at my school that are MD fail outs, but if you can’t see yourself being a podiatrist I would advise against it. A lot of people that don’t like it or aren’t in it for the right reasons fail or drop out.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

PA admissions are pretty ruthless when it comes to screening out candidates they deem as failed pre meds “settling” for PA school, to the point that I wouldn’t even report a MCAT score to them if I was applying now. I can’t imagine they’d be super warm to the idea of being Plan C or D for dismissed medical students.

Idk about this, nearly every person who started out pre-med with me in college is now in PA school after failing to be competitive enough for med school.

 

[Peter Pan.]

Idk about this, nearly every person who started out pre-med with me in college is now in PA school after failing to be competitive enough for med school.

I second this. So many pre meds eventually go to nursing, physical therapy, occupational therapy, PA, etc. Activities, MCAT score, and classes taken will reflect this. Schools know they were premed and just want competitive applicants who will perform well at their school. As long as you have shadowing/experience in your new intended field of study you will be fine.

 

[WalSlave]

Idk about this, nearly every person who started out pre-med with me in college is now in PA school after failing to be competitive enough for med school.

I second this. So many pre meds eventually go to nursing, physical therapy, occupational therapy, PA, etc. Activities, MCAT score, and classes taken will reflect this. Schools know they were premed and just want competitive applicants who will perform well at their school. As long as you have shadowing/experience in your new intended field of study you will be fine.

Completely agree, which is why I never said students should hide that they’re pre-med. Admins aren’t dumb. They know many, if not most, of their candidates started out pre-med and one way or the other found their way to PA. What admins don’t want is someone who very obviously gave a half-hearted lazy attempt at getting into med school and is now hopping on the PA train because they think they’ve found a rad shortcut to being a doctor. I’d bet money any fellow PA reading this remembers THAT classmate; the one who waltzed in day 1 ego-tripping all over the place preaching and advocating independence even though they have zero experience even BEING a PA. These delusional lunatics would literally rather advocate themselves into the role of a doc rather than just putting in the leg work upfront, studying for the MCAT, and getting into freakin med school in the first place. I’m sure anyone could see the issue with that kind of toxicity. Burnout is eminent, and it’s frankly a danger to future patients to let these looney tunes into the profession.

Anyway, as usual I digress. A traditional pre-med turned PA applicant with a vanilla record is gonna have an easier time answering the inevitable “why PA over MD/DO” interview question with something convincing, whereas someone whose app shows a horrible MCAT attempt could easily be grilled on their motives. Someone with a giant glaring med school dismissal + multiple STEP failures who is also demanding transfer credit so they can get in and out ASAP with the minimum amount of work would almost certainly rub someone wrong

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Completely agree, which is why I never said students should hide that they’re pre-med. Admins aren’t dumb. They know many, if not most, of their candidates started out pre-med and one way or the other found their way to PA. What admins don’t want is someone who very obviously gave a half-hearted lazy attempt at getting into med school and is now hopping on the PA train because they think they’ve found a rad shortcut to being a doctor. I’d bet money any fellow PA reading this remembers THAT classmate; the one who waltzed in day 1 ego-tripping all over the place preaching and advocating independence even though they have zero experience even BEING a PA. These delusional lunatics would literally rather advocate themselves into the role of a doc rather than just putting in the leg work upfront, studying for the MCAT, and getting into freakin med school in the first place. I’m sure anyone could see the issue with that kind of toxicity. Burnout is eminent, and it’s frankly a danger to future patients to let these looney tunes into the profession.

Anyway, as usual I digress. A traditional pre-med turned PA applicant with a vanilla record is gonna have an easier time answering the inevitable “why PA over MD/DO” interview question with something convincing, whereas someone whose app shows a horrible MCAT attempt could easily be grilled on their motives. Someone with a giant glaring med school dismissal + multiple STEP failures who is also demanding transfer credit so they can get in and out ASAP with the minimum amount of work would almost certainly rub someone wrong

Who is demanding transfer credits? I've been away fromSDN for a while so forgot what kinda place this is, especially the premed section. Did I ever say I wanted to apply to PA school? Read the thread, no.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Completely agree, which is why I never said students should hide that they’re pre-med. Admins aren’t dumb. They know many, if not most, of their candidates started out pre-med and one way or the other found their way to PA. What admins don’t want is someone who very obviously gave a half-hearted lazy attempt at getting into med school and is now hopping on the PA train because they think they’ve found a rad shortcut to being a doctor. I’d bet money any fellow PA reading this remembers THAT classmate; the one who waltzed in day 1 ego-tripping all over the place preaching and advocating independence even though they have zero experience even BEING a PA. These delusional lunatics would literally rather advocate themselves into the role of a doc rather than just putting in the leg work upfront, studying for the MCAT, and getting into freakin med school in the first place. I’m sure anyone could see the issue with that kind of toxicity. Burnout is eminent, and it’s frankly a danger to future patients to let these looney tunes into the profession.

Anyway, as usual I digress. A traditional pre-med turned PA applicant with a vanilla record is gonna have an easier time answering the inevitable “why PA over MD/DO” interview question with something convincing, whereas someone whose app shows a horrible MCAT attempt could easily be grilled on their motives. Someone with a giant glaring med school dismissal + multiple STEP failures who is also demanding transfer credit so they can get in and out ASAP with the minimum amount of work would almost certainly rub someone wrong

I agree with this. Your initial post made it seem like you were suggesting in general that PA schools were good at screening out those who were initially pre-med, and look for those who are genuinely interested in being PAs and pursued that from day one.

 

[gatordentalgal]

Sure, Med school classes are most likely way more in depth than PA, don't know why they wouldn't accept them.

Your post right here indicates your interest in having them accept your transfer credits which is what me and the other poster are referring to. You asked for advice and people are trying to be honest with you.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Your post right here indicates your interest in having them accept your transfer credits which is what me and the other poster are referring to. You asked for advice and people are trying to be honest with you.

No it doesn't indicate interest, I never asked about transfer credits. I never even expressed any interest in applying to PA school. Somebody else bought up transfer credits and I said I don't know why they wouldn't accept them. Like I said I forgot what type of place SDN is, people here are really great at over exaggerating and making something out of nothing. It's all poor trolling to bait others into an argument.

 

[WalSlave]

No it doesn't indicate interest, I never asked about transfer credits. I never even expressed any interest in applying to PA school. Somebody else bought up transfer credits and I said I don't know why they wouldn't accept them. Like I said I forgot what type of place SDN is, people here are really great at over exaggerating and making something out of nothing. It's all poor trolling to bait others into an argument.

My goal was to illustrate how absurd it is for people on this forum to CONSTANTLY tell folks in similar situations as yourself that they can just transfer into PA school. Those in need of guidance search these forums years later and it’s uncool to be so ignorant and flippant with harmful advice.

 

[MusicDOc124]

No, you don't have a chance at DO programs at this time, regardless of "tier."

 

[Hippocrates II]

No it doesn't indicate interest, I never asked about transfer credits. I never even expressed any interest in applying to PA school. Somebody else bought up transfer credits and I said I don't know why they wouldn't accept them. Like I said I forgot what type of place SDN is, people here are really great at over exaggerating and making something out of nothing. It's all poor trolling to bait others into an argument.

I think your first mistake here was asking SDN about your situation. Read this thread and you'll see it's just a bunch of people (myself included) giving you advice for things they are in no way qualified to give you advice on. Maybe you can get into a DO school. Maybe that door is closed. I don't know and neither does really anyone else in this thread. If I were in your shoes, I would be contacting schools directly and explaining the situation. Every school is different and it's impossible for anyone on here to know whether or not a school will show you some leniency. There is a great thread on SDN that was recently bumped about a guy who failed out and got readmitted, so 'anything is possible' as the saying goes. I wish you the best of luck because no one should through the hells of medical school and walk away empty-handed.

 

[RNthenDoc]

OP, being a psyche NP in an independent-practice State could give you a very similar career to a psychiatrist. I also love that having a nursing background is a fantastic fallback; the RN license is insanely versatile!

I say find an accelerated licensure program, work while you finish a bachelor’s online, let a hospital PAY for much of the rest of your school, and use your salary to make a good dent in your student loans. If you work your butt off you could finish in a similar time frame compared to having done psychiatry.

Plus you get a WHOLE WEEK of donuts and pens in May, and a fancy white hat and chip on your shoulder.

In all seriousness, having your preclinical classwork done in medical school + earning thousands of clinical hours as an RN would make you a powerhouse of a mid level.

 

[hallowmann]

Okay, so I' gong to have to take on more debt anyway, because I'm going go to at least get a masters in something else, hopefully, an Anesthesia Assistant program. This is the first time applying to med school has crossed my mind since I've been dismissed and it was probably just the stress of change and not knowing what I'm doing next year that brought it on. I wouldn't go to the caribbean, and I know DOs defend the COMLEX as just as hard as the USMLE, but I don't see how that would be the case, the first time pass rate for US MD students on step 1 is around 93%, and for DOs it is around 75%, I would guess the pass rate on the COMLEX for DOs is higher than 75%. I thought I would have a shot at at least the new and lower tier DO schools if I got a decent MCAT score, especially WCU since I am a Mississippi resident and went to college right across town. But if not that's fine, I'll just go ahead with other plans.

The first time pass rate in 2018 on step 1 for DOs is exactly the same as MDs, 96%. Where did you get 75%???

That being said I totally think you could pass comlex and the usmle. And I disagree you are dead in the water. I know quite a few people with strange stories and some not too different from yours. Good luck man. I vote to go for AA.

United States Medical Licensing Examination | Performance Data

The United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) assesses a physician's ability to apply knowledge, concepts, and principles, and to demonstrate fundamental patient-centered skills, that are important in health and disease.

www.usmle.org

Glad this wasn't ignored, don't want a random person to see this and assume its true. For some context, DO pass rates for Step 1 have been well above 75% for over a decade, and they've been within 1% of the US MD pass rate for the last 5 yrs (DO pass rate was actually 1% higher in 2017). OP, your info is antiquated, and I would honestly be concerned of your ability to pass COMLEX Level 1 given 3 Step 1 failures.

NP, AA, Pod are all reasonable options. You could certainly try to apply DO, and you might be able to convince someone to give you a shot, but honestly it would likely be safer (and cheaper) to go the other routes.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

OP: I would not bet on a chance for getting into any MD/DO schools in US...

 

[deleted103644]

Sure, Med school classes are most likely way more in depth than PA, don't know why they wouldn't accept them.

$$$

 

[hungrydoc710]

Sorry OP, as others have said, Pod school is the way to go.

How does one asure this not happen to them?
OM1 here, already tweaking about boards a bit.

Thx!

 

[ciestar]

Sorry OP, as others have said, Pod school is the way to go.

How does one asure this not happen to them?
OM1 here, already tweaking about boards a bit.

Thx!

You just keep studying and prep for the boards. There really isn’t a way to ensure you won’t fail your boards, but proper prep makes this unlikely. You’re an OMS1 and can always opt to not take Step 1 if you’re struggling and throw it all into COMLEX 1.

 

[Osminog]

For some context, DO pass rates for Step 1 have been well above 75% for over a decade, and they've been within 1% of the US MD pass rate for the last 5 yrs (DO pass rate was actually 1% higher in 2017). OP, your info is antiquated, and I would honestly be concerned of your ability to pass COMLEX Level 1 given 3 Step 1 failures.

Remember that not all DO students take the Step exams. In 2018, less than 60% of DOs took Step 1. The DOs who opt to take the Step exams are a self-selected group, and their qualities don’t necessarily reflect those of all DOs.

Therefore, we cannot conclude, from the fact that all US MD students have comparable Step 1 pass rates to a self-selected sample of DO students, that a MD student who can’t pass Step 1 would likely fail COMLEX Level 1 if he were a DO.

 

[DO2015CA]

You need to squash the idea of PA school. You may think of this as just a mid level position, but there are applicants fighting tooth and nail to get into PA school and they don’t have your history. Also squash and idea that PA school will accept your medical school classes as a credit.

I think he will have to retake them but to say squash the PA school idea is wrong. There are more and more programs opening each year and the person Was able to get through med school classes just not the USMLE. PA programs don’t take a test nearly as hard as the USMLE

 

[Going Incognito]

I think your first mistake here was asking SDN about your situation. Read this thread and you'll see it's just a bunch of people (myself included) giving you advice for things they are in no way qualified to give you advice on. Maybe you can get into a DO school. Maybe that door is closed. I don't know and neither does really anyone else in this thread. If I were in your shoes, I would be contacting schools directly and explaining the situation. Every school is different and it's impossible for anyone on here to know whether or not a school will show you some leniency. There is a great thread on SDN that was recently bumped about a guy who failed out and got readmitted, so 'anything is possible' as the saying goes. I wish you the best of luck because no one should through the hells of medical school and walk away empty-handed.

Yes, I think you are referring to Bones.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I think he will have to retake them but to say squash the PA school idea is wrong. There are more and more programs opening each year and the person Was able to get through med school classes just not the USMLE. PA programs don’t take a test nearly as hard as the USMLE

There are plenty of PA programs that will not take someone who matriculated to med school at all, and of those that will - there are some that will not take someone who has sat for boards, regardless of outcome and/or after a certain amount of years of med school have been completed.

Just keep that in mind. I'm sure there are programs that will allow a previous med student, but even that will be an uphill battle if they've not previously applied to PA school and failed boards. PA schools don't want to be second pick, and if they sense that, you may not even get the interview.

 

[gatordentalgal]

I think he will have to retake them but to say squash the PA school idea is wrong. There are more and more programs opening each year and the person Was able to get through med school classes just not the USMLE. PA programs don’t take a test nearly as hard as the USMLE

Completely disagree. Also, good luck with telling a PA admissions committee that the PANCE isn’t nearly as hard as USMLE Step 1 so shouldn’t have a problem. Willing to bet that won’t go over very well.

 

[DO2015CA]

Completely disagree. Also, good luck with telling a PA admissions committee that the PANCE isn’t nearly as hard as USMLE Step 1 so shouldn’t have a problem. Willing to bet that won’t go over very well.

it is anecdotal, but there are examples of it. It also depends if the school allowed the student to withdraw (which most do). The student will not have a dismissal, but rather “a change of heart” and they “wanted to work as a member of the healthcare team” or any of that crap. It can be done. The student would be an idiot to tell the committee that the usmle is harder, but any self respecting PA adcom would know it to be true.

 

[DO2015CA]

There are plenty of PA programs that will not take someone who matriculated to med school at all, and of those that will - there are some that will not take someone who has sat for boards, regardless of outcome and/or after a certain amount of years of med school have been completed.

Just keep that in mind. I'm sure there are programs that will allow a previous med student, but even that will be an uphill battle if they've not previously applied to PA school and failed boards. PA schools don't want to be second pick, and if they sense that, you may not even get the interview.

Yes. But there are more and more PA programs opening up every year. Newer schools might.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Completely disagree. Also, good luck with telling a PA admissions committee that the PANCE isn’t nearly as hard as USMLE Step 1 so shouldn’t have a problem. Willing to bet that won’t go over very well.

I wouldn't want to be a PA if they are trying to equate themselves to physicians. But like I said 20 post ago I'm not interest in PA anyway.

I've mostly got my mind set on psychNP and AA. I'm leaning more towards psych NP, a well regarded university has a program where you can become a psych NP in 2 years, - accelerated RN, accelerated MSN. Trying to do med school and possibly a psych residency would put me a 40 years old if I get through the training.

 

[hungrydoc710]

I wouldn't want to be a PA if they are trying to equate themselves to physicians. But like I said 20 post ago I'm not interest in PA anyway.

I've mostly got my mind set on psychNP and AA. I'm leaning more towards psych NP, a well regarded university has a program where you can become a psych NP in 2 years, - accelerated RN, accelerated MSN. Trying to do med school and possibly a psych residency would put me a 40 years old if I get through the training.

Psych NP in 2 years, AFTER you've already been a RN and done a couple years of work.

 

[DO2015CA]

I wouldn't want to be a PA if they are trying to equate themselves to physicians. But like I said 20 post ago I'm not interest in PA anyway.

I've mostly got my mind set on psychNP and AA. I'm leaning more towards psych NP, a well regarded university has a program where you can become a psych NP in 2 years, - accelerated RN, accelerated MSN. Trying to do med school and possibly a psych residency would put me a 40 years old if I get through the training.

That’s a good alternative too.

 

[deleted480308]

I wouldn't want to be a PA if they are trying to equate themselves to physicians. But like I said 20 post ago I'm not interest in PA anyway.

I've mostly got my mind set on psychNP and AA. I'm leaning more towards psych NP, a well regarded university has a program where you can become a psych NP in 2 years, - accelerated RN, accelerated MSN. Trying to do med school and possibly a psych residency would put me a 40 years old if I get through the training.

You don’t want PA because they are trying to be like docs, but a psych NP is ok?

 

[MusicDOc124]

it is anecdotal, but there are examples of it. It also depends if the school allowed the student to withdraw (which most do). The student will not have a dismissal, but rather “a change of heart” and they “wanted to work as a member of the healthcare team” or any of that crap. It can be done. The student would be an idiot to tell the committee that the usmle is harder, but any self respecting PA adcom would know it to be true.

Withdrawing after 2 years of med school when one would start rotations to apply to PA school to have another 2.5-3 years of school beginning with another 1-2 years of didactics and graduate with a masters later than one would graduate with a medical degree would raise some serious questions to a PA admissions committee.

 

[hallowmann]

Remember that not all DO students take the Step exams. In 2018, less than 60% of DOs took Step 1. The DOs who opt to take the Step exams are a self-selected group, and their qualities don’t necessarily reflect those of all DOs.

Therefore, we cannot conclude, from the fact that all US MD students have comparable Step 1 pass rates to a self-selected sample of DO students, that a MD student who can’t pass Step 1 would likely fail COMLEX Level 1 if he were a DO.

Sure not all DOs take it. What I was responding to was the erroneous DO pass rate that OP claimed.

Also, what I said wasn't that they would likely fail because they failed Step 1, what I said was that "I would honestly be concerned of your ability to pass COMLEX Level 1 given 3 Step 1 failures." The tests are honestly not that different. Different styles sure, but in terms of the basic knowledge required to pass both, other than OMM they are quite similar.

But believe what you want. In a couple years you'll take both and see what you think.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I would be more worried about licensing. Even if you pass the COMLEX1, there’s two more to pass. You have already failed step 1 three times. A lot of states don’t license you to practice if you have failed any licensing exam 3 times. You will have to explain this everywhere. Every single credentialing form will ask you as well. Even if you manage to get into a DO school, and pass everything, your career choices will be very limited.

 

[hungrydoc710]

OP,

Why/how did you fail 3 times?
Did you not use the proper resources and study 6-8 hrs a day for months?

Did you NOT USE sketchymicro, sketchypharm, pathoma, first aid, and do uworld questions?

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Psych NP in 2 years, AFTER you've already been a RN and done a couple years of work.

I wouldn't have to work as RN its optional. In the program its possible to just get the RN, then start the MSN immediately, finishing the entire program in 2 years.