Failed Premeds

[Zweihander]

It baffles me why we (as a group) tend to view people who started off as premed and dropped or who applied to med school and didn't get in with something bordering on contempt, as "quitters" or "failures." It's particularly odd because I haven't really noticed this phenomenon with other career paths. I myself am far afield now as a medical student from where I started when I was in college. I had every intention of making a career for myself in psychology, and then got both bored and frustrated by the field (more the latter). Does that make me a "quitter?"

Why are people who leave entire lives and careers behind, such as social workers, engineers, even lawyers, considered "success stories" and not failed Career X'ers? No one ever thinks of Dr. Jones as a failed investment banker, but I can't tell you the number of times I've run across comments disparaging business students who started off college as premeds.

What gives?

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[juddson]

It baffles me why we (as a group) tend to view people who started off as premed and dropped or who applied to med school and didn't get in with something bordering on contempt, as "quitters" or "failures." It's particularly odd because I haven't really noticed this phenomenon with other career paths. I myself am far afield now as a medical student from where I started when I was in college. I had every intention of making a career for myself in psychology, and then got both bored and frustrated by the field (more the latter). Does that make me a "quitter?"

Why are people who leave entire lives and careers behind, such as social workers, engineers, even lawyers, considered "success stories" and not failed Career X'ers? No one ever thinks of Dr. Jones as a failed investment banker, but I can't tell you the number of times I've run across comments disparaging business students who started off college as premeds.

What gives?

Oh, I think the answer to this is hardly difficult to see.

Judd

 

[tugbug]

The carribean will almost accept anyone. If someone really wanted to be an MD, I think would spend 2 years in the Carribean. Those people that changed their minds after getting rejected didn't really want to be an MD. They were probabl doing it for the prestige. Even though the carribean isn't very prestigous its still a med school (by no means any inferior).

So, since I wasnt willing to move to the carribean... I was in it for the prestige? And, since I changed my mind after rejection I "didnt really want to be an MD?" I suspect I (and many others you describe) have sacrificed a lot more than you to become an MD. Or, maybe a better way to put it is, that I have made enough sacrifices to prove I really want to be an MD... whatever your opinion on the subject might be.

Broad generalizations like yours dont add much to the conversation, IMO.

 

[Spitting Camel]

It's one thing to realize that you love another profession or have a greater passion than medicine, but when you still love it and give up because it's a challenge to reach your goal, that is when you are a quitter.

Those who go onto other professions without a second thought are not quitters, they just never wanted it as bad as we do.

 

[NRAI2001]

It's one thing to realize that you love another profession or have a greater passion than medicine, but when you still love it and give up because it's a challenge to reach your goal, that is when you are a quitter.

Those who go onto other professions without a second thought are not quitters, they just never wanted it as bad as we do.

Exactly

 

[NRAI2001]

So, since I wasnt willing to move to the carribean... I was in it for the prestige? And, since I changed my mind after rejection I "didnt really want to be an MD?" I suspect I (and many others you describe) have sacrificed a lot more than you to become an MD. Or, maybe a better way to put it is, that I have made enough sacrifices to prove I really want to be an MD... whatever your opinion on the subject might be.

Broad generalizations like yours dont add much to the conversation, IMO.

If you did change ur mind after a single rejection then u probably didn't want to be an MD. If you really didn't want to wait and reapply, u could have gone to the carribean.

 

[tugbug]

It's one thing to realize that you love another profession or have a greater passion than medicine, but when you still love it and give up because it's a challenge to reach your goal, that is when you are a quitter.

Those who go onto other professions without a second thought are not quitters, they just never wanted it as bad as we do.

I dont think "quitter" is the right word. It is not as simple as you guys are making it out to be. Plenty goes into the decision to go to med school. It is not as cut and dried as "if you want to be a doctor, and you stop trying before you are dead... then you are a quitter" If you had a strong application, well above the averages at all of the schools you applied to... good ECs, no personality problems, advisors tell you you are a "shoo-in", etc... Only, you dont get accepted first time. You discuss the app with ADCOMS, advisors, etc... and everyone says your app is good, take some more classes and try again. You do, then apply again... and same result. How many years of your life would you spend when you have no idea how to fix whatever problem the ADCOMs are seeing? Some people cut their losses after 2 yrs, 3 yrs, whatever. At some point, whether you want it or not, youve got to face the reality that it might not happen for you and move on... I think the word "quitter" has a negative meaning that doesnt really apply. Also, I wonder how many of the "truly" dedicated acceptees would quit if they had to continue to apply without an understanding of the problem. It is easy to say you would apply until it happened... It is not so easy to do.

Really, there is not as much difference between many accepted students and many who dont get a shot. Not in stats, not in dedication, not in personality, and not in "how bad you want it." I suspect my proof of "how bad I want it" and my stats would stack up with just about anyone here.

 

[gschl1234]

68.75 percent is pretty high. Aren't most people weeded out by the lower div courses? I felt that my upper div courses were a lot less competitive and a lot more straight forward than m lower div courses.

Personally I found the lower div courses to be a lot easier than upper division courses. The curve was a lot more generous too. "It's pain and then more pain, which makes you forget about the initial pain," as I was told on one of my interviews at UIC.

 

[group_theory]

Also remember, a lot of people start college with dreams of being a doctor (or lawyer). But sometimes life throws a wrench into their plans - either they have family obligations, work obligations, not enough scholarships to cover school cost (books, lab fees, etc), inadequate college preparation etc.

Statistically, the percentage of people who start college and eventually graduate isn't that great. In a study by the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA, "among freshmen who entered baccalaureate-granting colleges in Fall 1994, only 36.4 percent were able to complete their bachelor?s degrees within four years . The degree completion rate jumps to 58.8 percent ? if students are allowed six years to complete college. The overall degree completion rate is 61.6 percent." (1)

Academic skills are also important. You need a solid foundation entering college to do well in college classes (and thus earn the grades needed for medical school). "Those who earn an A or A plus grade average in high school have four- and six-year completion rates of 58.2 and 77.5 percent, respectively, compared to rates of only 8.0 percent (four-year) and 20.0 percent (six-year) for students who earn C averages." (1)

So if you count "premeds" as all those who enter college with dreams of becoming a doctor, then the numbers who don't make it to med school may be significantly higher due to the high numbers of college dropouts.


Reference:
1. Degree Attainment Rates at Colleges and Universities
Univeristy of California, Los Angeles - Graduate School of Education and Information Studies
http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/heri/darcu_pr.html

 

[gschl1234]

This is off topic, but what exactly is group theory?

 

[group_theory]

Addendum to my last post (then I'll answer the question)

Apparently high school grades have a high coorelation with degree attainment. "Seventy-one percent of the class of 1982 planned to get a college degree. Ten years later, 63.9 percent of those with A averages had attained an A.A. degree or higher, but only 13.9 percent of those with C averages (or lower) had done so" (2) (3)

2. Rosenbaum, J. E. (1998). College-for-all: Do students understand what college demands? Social Psychology of Education, 2, 55-80.
3. Rosenbaum, J. E. (2001). Beyond college for all. New York: Russell Sage.

So a lot of people may dream of becoming a doctor when starting out, but besides the weed-out process of premed, there are also factors that may lead to them dropping out


OK - to answer the off-topic question

"Group theory can be considered the study of symmetry: the collection of symmetries of some object preserving some of its structure forms a group; in some sense all groups arise this way.

Formally, a group is a set G on which there is a multiplication '*' defined, satisfying the associative law. In addition, there is to be an element '1' in G with 1*g=g*1=g for every g in G; and every element g in G must have an inverse h satisfying g*h=h*g=1." (4)

4. North Illinois University - The Mathematical Atlas
http://www.math.niu.edu/~rusin/known-math/index/20-XX.html
Click the link if you want to learn more about what exactly group theory is

 

[SoulRFlare]

The good news is I will be starting Med school in the fall... so, this crap is (at least partly) behind me... although, I still have to deal with this big chip on my shoulder, but thats good motivation to show what these schools missed out on...lol.

Where are you headed?

 

[TheGuy2000]

It's nice to hear those comforting words. I really appreciate your support and outright envy!!! Quite frankly I wouldn't care if you just outright threw a tantrum. Point is I am in and I feel I deserve it and your or no one else can take that away from me. Hopefully you'll find peace with it one day. Much love all the success in med school because I KNOW THAT I WILL HAVE MUCH SUCCESS!!!!

Look I'm happy for you, you got in, I just question the ADCOM"s decision. And believe me I wouldn't trust anyone with a 22 to operate within 100 feet of myself or anyone I know.

 

[tugbug]

Where are you headed?

Decided on U Kentucky. You?

 

[NRAI2001]

I dont think "quitter" is the right word. It is not as simple as you guys are making it out to be. Plenty goes into the decision to go to med school. It is not as cut and dried as "if you want to be a doctor, and you stop trying before you are dead... then you are a quitter" If you had a strong application, well above the averages at all of the schools you applied to... good ECs, no personality problems, advisors tell you you are a "shoo-in", etc... Only, you dont get accepted first time. You discuss the app with ADCOMS, advisors, etc... and everyone says your app is good, take some more classes and try again. You do, then apply again... and same result. How many years of your life would you spend when you have no idea how to fix whatever problem the ADCOMs are seeing? Some people cut their losses after 2 yrs, 3 yrs, whatever. At some point, whether you want it or not, youve got to face the reality that it might not happen for you and move on... I think the word "quitter" has a negative meaning that doesnt really apply. Also, I wonder how many of the "truly" dedicated acceptees would quit if they had to continue to apply without an understanding of the problem. It is easy to say you would apply until it happened... It is not so easy to do.

Really, there is not as much difference between many accepted students and many who dont get a shot. Not in stats, not in dedication, not in personality, and not in "how bad you want it." I suspect my proof of "how bad I want it" and my stats would stack up with just about anyone here.

Why don't u go to the carribean. Its guaranteed admission?

 

[tugbug]

Why don't u go to the carribean. Its guaranteed admission?

NRAI, I got accepted here and start in August. It was back in 1995/1996 that I was rejected. I never considered moving out of the country for school for a lot of reasons. Also, for reasons that seem wrong to me now, I didnt consider DO an option... although if I had it to do over I would certainly have pursued that possibility.

 

[tugbug]

Well aren't I glad that you aren't on the adcom. It's so funny how people criticize and express what they feel is right or deserving of another. Until you are sitting on the committe I will take your words with a grain of salt. I know I am very capable of succeeding in med school and g.p.a shows it. I will still be among those at the top of my class in med school just as I was in grade school and still am now despite my hectic life. I respect your feelings but I know what I am capable of and have been all my life. That score on the mcat does not define me because I am intelligent and my grades show it. Luckily I just didn't have to prove myself because other things spoke for me and NOW I only have to prove myself in med school. BUT make no mistake about it had I not been accepted I would have definitely had a better score but instead someone saw the potential in me and kept me from waisting my time!!! I still love you tho'. Don't be mad at me, please don't.

P.S. Don't worry I will make you proud when you see my USMLE scores. Keep in touch so I can inform you.

Chalklette, assuming you arent just pulling our leg here... you dont have to prove anything to anyone on this board. You know that. Congrats, I hope you do well. But, put yourself in the shoes of the many applicants who, like you, have great grades, life experience, hurdles overcome, great ECs/experience, etc... and a 30+ MCAT - But NO acceptances. Somebody is giving you a shot with a score that is more than a standard deviation below the average accepted score. I'm not claiming that says you wont do well, but lots of people who could do well in Med school never get the chance to prove it. Can you see that it would seem unfair to the folks with big MCATs to go along with all the other stuff, that you got the benefit of the doubt when they didnt?

BTW, where are you headed?

 

[Spitting Camel]

She's goin' to Howard

 

[ifailedmcat]

I don't understand why you people are so harsh on chalklette. There is much more to becoming a doctor than good grades and mcat scores. There's something I think you guys are overlooking....character.

Personally, I was baffled hearing stories of people having perfect GPAs, 31+ mcat scores, and not getting in, but as I learned more and more, and it began to make sense why they didn't get accepted.

One guy I remember, scored a ridiculous 39 or so on his mcat. However, he was incredibly arrogant, something I guess is more common from the high scorers. Not only was he cocky, he was a complete a$$hole, and noone liked him... I don't know how you can hide that in an interview.

Another guy had very solid numbers, but he had a single DUI on his record...and yes, medical schools do look at your criminal record. He was told by one interveiwer that he would probably not get admitted anywhere.

I'm sure these two would have done awesome in medical school, but the question isn't whether they will be successful...it's whether or not you would want them to be your doctor.

 

[tugbug]

I don't understand why you people are so harsh on chalklette. There is much more to becoming a doctor than good grades and mcat scores. There's something I think you guys are overlooking....character.

I'm not overlooking character and I dont doubt that some high stats folks have personality issues. But I dont think high stat folks have cornered the market on a lack of character and/or personality issues, and unless the entire group of "unaccepted with good stats" people have these problems... then their is reason to wonder. It is just not the case that everybody with good stats who does not get accepted has some major flaw.

Im not being hard on her anyway, I congratulate her and hope she does well. However, I can understand the feeling that some applicants have that they were deserving in the ways she is (character +)... plus a bunch of pts on the MCAT.

 

[gschl1234]

I don't understand why you people are so harsh on chalklette. There is much more to becoming a doctor than good grades and mcat scores. There's something I think you guys are overlooking....character.

Exactly. Character. The thing is, it looks (for my perspective anyway) that this lady seems to have questionable character in some respects. She definitely has a hectic life and we got to laud her for making it! But her composite MCAT was below the national average yet she got accepted somewhere. More power to her. That's an awesome achievement and I wish her the best. But school's not even started and she's already predicting how she'll be at the top of her class AND get kick-butt USMLE scores? It seems really arrogant to me and I wouldn't describe someone like that as having great character. No offense to her or anything because people were bashing her but her reaction shows that (although she's a mother) she's not the most emotionally mature person. Quite frankly, she seems a bit gunner-ish to me and I wouldn't enjoy going through med school with someone who's always trying to be at the top of the class. Personally, I'm just going to try and not fail any of my classes. I'll be happy if I accomplish that during my first year.

 

[kaikai128]

I know several people who had high teens/low twenties. There are one of several places other than here. 1. At a medical school offshore. 2. In the library studying so that they get a higher score after getting laughed at by pre-med committees and admissions committees. 3. In another job because after taking it 3 times, still could not get above the score of 22. I think, in general, that the people on here are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Goober]

Having known people that had below 2.5 gpas and below 25 mcats get into carribean med schools and then come back to the US and are now full fledged physicians, I would say it is all about motivation. If you want it you can get it. If you only apply to allopathic med schools and don't get in, and then give up....YOU DIDN'T WANT IT BAD ENOUGH

 

[bigdan]

Chalk-
Congrats a million times over. You're an inspiration. Best of luck.
Naysayers-
I'm still not sure why we expect that scores are the be all and end all of the application process. If they were, we wouldn't interview. And I am further baffled by why we think we get to determine what is "fair". This is a game. The adcom runs it, and we play in it, but have no control. Life isn't fair. SOMEONE deemed SOMETHING(S) about Chalkette was worthy about giving her a shot at medical school. Hopefully some adcoms will think the same of us.
Where is the cut off point on the MCAT that shows an applicant can handle medical school academics?

dc

 

[ifailedmcat]

Alrite gschl1234, if you are questioning her character, then that's a reasonable argument. But downright judging her on the basis of her stats alone is not fair. I believe, the higher your numbers, the higher your chance of getting in, so if you have a very good gpa and mcat score and still can't get in ANYWHERE, then you are probably one of the few. Everyone at my school with a 29+ was accepted last year... If you're gunning for a top tier school, then it's understandable that you might get rejected.

 

[SoCalOrBust]

I wonder.. if you get a low score, wouldn't that prompt an AdCom to look more closely at the other areas in your app. I mean think about it, they probably get tons of apps that fit into the "typical applicant" group. I heard from a doctor from Baylor that the AdCom would just take a pile of these "typical applicants" and just pick one out of the group essentially at random. Maybe having ANYTHING that makes someone take a little more time to look at you can somehow work to your advantage.

I also feel really lucky to be going to med school, especially one that I want to go to. Going into this, I thought I would have no problem since my numbers matched up to the averages to some of the top schools in the nation. Everyone would tell me "Don't worry about anything, you'll get in with those numbers." I ended up getting rejected by all but 4 of the 18 schools i applied to (2 of which were safety schools.) I think as a result of my ignorance I didn't put in quite as much effort into the other areas of my app. I think as you go higher in scores, the rejections become more a result of this.

Then again there are people (some I see described here) that do appear to get those good scores and still put 100% into the other parts of their app and still don't get in. I knew of two guys that were almost identical on paper; one guy got multiple acceptances and went to UCLA while the other had to go to NYMC cuz he didnt get in anywhere else. Both are very smart, sociable people. Some of this could be just a difference in luck or maybe there is some little detail on one app that every single AdCom sees that makes them reject an applicant.

I strongly believe that alot of this "game" is a crap shoot. I admire those of you that continue to pursue your dreams despite rejection. In the long run I know this will make you excellent physicians. Good Luck!

 

[jlee9531]

I think anyone who scores a 22 on the mcat (no matter how high they're GPA is ) doesn't deserve to get into an allopathic school.

why not?
you dont know what they went through.
even though i feel a higher mcat shows more than a high gpa...but thats just my opinion and not what that particular school wanted.

the person is obviously grateful they got accepted to medical school and will take that thankfulness and turn it into success. good for that person.

 

[NRAI2001]

If you didn't have time to study for the mcats, how will u have time to study for the USMLE's.

A high gpa at one schools doesn't necessarily mean that you would have gotten a high gpa at another school. Schools vary in difficulty.

The point is it is feasible that I actually did score into that neat little average MCAT range that so many WORSHIP

A 22 is not average on any account. Its far below the average for med students accepted and its even far below the national average. I don't know what u meant by worship, but i certainly dont know anyone that would be proud of a 22.

You said that u had to work twice as hard as other people bc of ur ethnicity, but in most cases URM's actually have lower scores than the average pop.

 

[W222]

I think if schools are going to say that the MCAT is an equalizer they should start acting like it. There are plenty of people who get in with a high GPA and lower MCAT scores. Frankly the MCAT is a damn hard test and is a fairly accurate predictor of success in medical school but some schools dont seem to put as much stock in it as they publicaly state.

 

[(nicedream)]

The bottom line is if someone wants to be a doctor they can - there are options other than US MD. Anyone who only tries for US MD, or only considers it, doesn't get in and stops trying is either ignorant or they don't want to be a doctor. It's absolutely ridiculous that someone would claim they want to be a doctor, but ONLY if they can attend a US MD school.

 

[snowbear]

I really enjoyed reading this thread yesterday because it was inspiring to me. People were talking about how their passion for medicine motivated them to overcome many obstacles and to not give up on their dreams.

I now find that many people on this thread are taking particular deficeincies as sole reasons in concluding that others are not qualified to become physicians. My advice is to not make decisions based on one aspect of someone's application, but instead, to consider the deficeincy in light of the bigger picture.

Posters on this thread have mentioned some characteristics that they feel prevent applicants from becoming qualified physicians. I believe the 22 Chalkette received was the first time she ever took the MCAT. Personally, I know many successful applicants who scored around this range on their first practice test, but who went on to higher scores after further practice. But, even if Chalkette received a 22 after tons of practice, who are we to say that she is unqualified to be a physician based on an MCAT score alone.

Another poster mentioned that he/she would not want someone who had been convicted of one DUI when they were a young adult to be their doctor. My question to this poster and to anyone else who shares this sentiment is, do you think that the rest of the applicants, who do not have a DUI on their record, never drove after having enough alcohol in their system to be convicted of a DUI? If the answer isn't apparent to you than let me answer it for you: the answer is that many applicants without DUI convictions have drove with an illegal blood alcohol level but just were never caught. By generalizing and saying that anyone who has a DUI on their record is not qualified to become a doctor is ludacris.

I am sure that there are a number of very qualified individuals who have a DUI on their record and for this reason alone do not get accepted into medical school; I think this is very unfortunate. I am not saying that adcoms shouldn't consider DUI convictions in their reviews of applicants, because I am sure that in some cases, the DUI is part of a larger pattern of irresponsibility. I am just saying that it is wrong to label a person as unqualified to become a physician solely because of one DUI. I would go as far as to say that certain individuals who have been convicted of a DUI, may be more responsible in the future about their drinking habits than people who haven't. (I am not saying all individuals, just certain individuals.) We all know that there exists a high incidence of substance abuse in the medical profession, and that oftentimes people grow as a result of their mistakes.

My point, as reflected in these two cases, is that it's never a good idea to take one aspect of an individual as the sole reason in deciding that they are unqualified to become a physician. Instead, it is a better idea to look at the deficeincy in light of the bigger picture.

 

[MoCookiess]

This thread has degenerated into sheer crap. Why are you guys debating the merits of an application you haven't even seen? Plus, Chalk's already in, so really there's no point in further discussion, whether you think the adcom made a good or a ****ty decision. Maybe someone could direct this thead back to "failed pre-meds"?

 

[(nicedream)]

I don't care about chalk's score in the least, and don't think MCAT scores have anything to do with what kind of physician you'll be. I just don't like her attitude - it's kind of funny that she's so arrogant with that score.

 

[HoodyHoo]

You said that u had to work twice as hard as other people bc of ur ethnicity, but in most cases URM's actually have lower scores than the average pop.

The last time I checked, it's also about 300X easier for a URM to gain acceptance. Chalkwhatever, you sound a bit ARROGANT

 

[Doc Martins]

The last time I checked, it's also about 300X easier for a URM to gain acceptance. Chalkwhatever, you sound a bit ARROGANT

Let's not exaggerate that it is so much easier for a URM to gain acceptance to med school. Take a look at any med school class and look at the disparity between the number of minorities and the rest of the class. Minorities still have to work just as hard as any other pre-med to get into med school.

 

[emogrrrrl]

Wow, people are really taking some cheap shots on this thread.

 

[Gleevec]

Let's not exaggerate that it is so much easier for a URM to gain acceptance to med school. Take a look at any med school class and look at the disparity between the number of minorities and the rest of the class. Minorities still have to work just as hard as any other pre-med to get into med school.

While I dont really disagree with you, Doc Martins, I fail to see the connection between having fewer members of a certain group in a class and the conclusion that such a group has to work as hard.

I dont disagree with your intent, but I dont think your statement logically backs it up.

 

[NRAI2001]

I don't understand this?

Doesn't surprise me.

 

[NRAI2001]

The last time I checked, it's also about 300X easier for a URM to gain acceptance. Chalkwhatever, you sound a bit ARROGANT

Did i push a botton or something? Are you a URM? All i did was state taht URM's generally have lower stats, and thats it. I never said anything else, and u can't really argue stats.

This is a discussion, not like we are decidng her fate, shes already gotten in. I m just stating that in most cases a person with that low of a MCAT score probably wouldn't be capable of handling the rigorous workload they will experience in med school. I think med school will be a humbling experience for her.

 

[Lion-O]

This thread has degenerated into sheer crap. Why are you guys debating the merits of an application you haven't even seen? Plus, Chalk's already in, so really there's no point in further discussion, whether you think the adcom made a good or a ****ty decision. Maybe someone could direct this thead back to "failed pre-meds"?

Haha, your post is like a needle in the haystack. I definitely wasn't expecting the thread to turn into this when I posted it. Good effort in attempting to put it back on the course intended, but I doubt it's going to happen.

 

[NRAI2001]

See you want me to act a fool and curse you out. It ain't worth my energy. So now you're implying I don't know anything. You probably some person who is a nobody and feels empowered behind you computer as you talk noise. You got the balls on screen but in person you wouldn't so much as even think about saying that to my face. And if you did you'd be limping to take the USMLE. What is the world coming to. We have alot of hate for people we don't even know. Why concern ourselves? I love you. You inspire me to be a better person. You keep me motivated. THanks. My children will be glad comments like yours pushed me to become a better role model for them. CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG.

LOL, are u threatening me hahahahha.

Also if u have the time to be on this forum, u have the time to study for school and the mcats.

 

[TheGuy2000]

Doesn't surprise me.

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHA, funniest thing I've read all month , I'm giving you karma points for this one bro

 

[gschl1234]

Alrite gschl1234, if you are questioning her character, then that's a reasonable argument. But downright judging her on the basis of her stats alone is not fair. I believe, the higher your numbers, the higher your chance of getting in, so if you have a very good gpa and mcat score and still can't get in ANYWHERE, then you are probably one of the few. Everyone at my school with a 29+ was accepted last year... If you're gunning for a top tier school, then it's understandable that you might get rejected.

I don't know if every sentence following your first is till toward me but if you notice, I only questioned her behavior. I simply said I wouldn't enjoy going through med school with someone who's so arrogant that she's predicting that she'll be at the top of her class and get great USMLE scores before school's even started. Quite frankly, I find that kind of talk obnoxious. I'm not judging her on scores.

PS I also think that someone who's sole purpose is to beat other people, inherently cares little about actually learning or applying knowledge, which shows in poor performance on standardized tests. You can't count on your professor giving you the benefit of the doubt when assigning grades when a test grading maching is marking your score. You have to question the validity of very high GPAs coupled with disproportionately low standardized test scores. Furthermore, I doubt this kind of philosophy would help someone become a good doctor. So much of this profession is about teamwork. How will someone who's always trying to out-perform everyone ever going to collaborate well?

 

[HoodyHoo]

Let's not exaggerate that it is so much easier for a URM to gain acceptance to med school. Take a look at any med school class and look at the disparity between the number of minorities and the rest of the class. Minorities still have to work just as hard as any other pre-med to get into med school.

Actually, at the school I applied to, it is that easy, because it is a midwest state school with a very very few number of URM's applying. So in my case, Yes, it is that easy. I'm sure for schools located in more diverse areas my statement may have been a bit exaggerated.

 

[HoodyHoo]

See you want me to act a fool and curse you out. It ain't worth my energy. So now you're implying I don't know anything. You probably some person who is a nobody and feels empowered behind you computer as you talk noise. You got the balls on screen but in person you wouldn't so much as even think about saying that to my face. And if you did you'd be limping to take the USMLE. What is the world coming to. We have alot of hate for people we don't even know. Why concern ourselves? I love you. You inspire me to be a better person. You keep me motivated. THanks. My children will be glad comments like yours pushed me to become a better role model for them. CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG.

Your arrogance underlies your sarcasm. you remind of my good friend that just got into a top 30 school, he's one cocky son of a b**** as well.

 

[NRAI2001]

It's interesting to me that at first glance, medical school doesn't seem all that hard to get into. After all, roughly 50% of applicants get in. And especially on these boards, you rarely ever hear people talk about failing as a premed, or not getting in somewhere. It's sort of disillusioning; it makes you forget that, by far, the vast majority of people who were ever premed have failed.

Hey I agree with you there. I worked with a couple of doctors in the military and one said he took the MCAT 4 times before he passed. After the 3rd time he decided to become a CRNA but now he's an anesthesiologist. He is successful now. He's the chief of the department. Also this lady that is in charge of the hospital my husband works for told him that she was suppose to be a doctor. She is the Director of Surgery of now but she said she took it 3 times and did not get what she felt was a decent score and so she gave up. So I do feel alot of people sell themselves short.
Someone said this is a game of chance and the adcom's are in charge and I agree.

Wow, they didn't pass the mcat eh. So what does it take to pass the mcat? Did they forget to their names?

 

[NRAI2001]

Do you want my telephone number? You keep sweating me. Your like a BUMP ON MY ASS, I HAVE NO USE FOR YOU!!! SOMEBODY POP HIM ALREADY.

Ooooops did I say that out loud?

Yea pop her dam bubble but. Her ass is congesting this thread.

 

[NRAI2001]

Thats right, I did just go there..........

 

[DMBFan61]

Wow, they didn't pass the mcat eh. So what does it take to pass the mcat? Did they forget to their names?

hahahah so true. wicked props to you

 

[DMBFan61]

how can someone who scored so low be so arrogant....it makes no sense!!!