Failed Premeds

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chalklette said:
Now I see. You're kinda on the feminine side. I always knew it. No wonder your come backs are so great.

Oh yeah DMBFan61Quit riding his nuts. Let me guess? You're dating? :meanie:
No really I didn't mean that. 😍

Im not riding anyone's nuts, im just saying enought with the arrogance...i don't care if you got a 22 or a 42, it doesn't really matter since you said you got in. People are usually not fortunate enough to get offered a seat, much less with a low mcat score. Be proud that you made it, but enough with the arrogance
 
chalklette said:
Now I see. You're kinda on the feminine side. I always knew it. No wonder your come backs are so great.

Oh yeah DMBFan61Quit riding his nuts. Let me guess? You're dating? :meanie:
No really I didn't mean that. 😍

Hahahha, thanks for making me laugh, but recess is over now. So go back to ur third grade class room and take ur nap.
 
Chalk, you should consider what you are saying and who the audience is. I didn't find anything you said bad, but think about how some people might interpret it. You're saying you scored a low MCAT score because you didn't try hard (I can't really agree or disagree with that since I don't know you); after getting that score you apply to some schools to see if you could get in (it doesn't sound to me like you were really too concerned with the outcome there). So basically it sounds like you didn't invest much into getting into med school based on the effort you put out on the MCAT and the application process.

I think most of us here actually busted our a$$e$ off to get the best scores we possibly could and really stressed out through the application process; it was really important to most of us to get in somewhere we wanted or to just get in period. So for us to hear about someone that went through one of the major components of the Premed requirements rather carelessly and still got into medical school could be a bit annoying. Maybe that is why people think you are arrogant. I realize that you are probably just proud of your accomplishments and just wanted to express that, but pride can easily be misinterpreted as arrogance.

Anyway....... lets get on a new track here. For those of you that had to reapply alot, did you guys change the schools you applied to with each try? I have a friend in the "reapply" position and he's going to try to make his next application actually target certain schools with his personal statement and EC.
 
i dont like this smiley, it creeps me out --> 😍
 
Why are people giving me bad karma for my comments on this thread? I'll continue to say it - all this talk about people not being able to get in and deciding to change their goals is bull****. Go caribbean or DO if you want to be a doctor - otherwise you just want to able to say you got into a US MD school.
 
Don't discount prestige as part of the equation. It shouldn't be a factor, but for most, it is.

Why else would going to Harvard be better than going to a state school?
 
exmike said:
i dont like this smiley, it creeps me out --> 😍

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NRAI2001 said:
LOL, are u threatening me hahahahha.

Also if u have the time to be on this forum, u have the time to study for school and the mcats.

I definitely agree with this. URMs are let into my ugrad school with SAT scores and GPAs FAR FAR lower than those of non-URMs. Looking at the stats of accepted applicants on the Berkeley website and seeing URMs accepted with dismal SATs (in the 900-1000 range...I thought you had to TRY HARD to score this low) and low GPAs makes me cringe. But I'm not cringing at the fact that URMs are being admitted...I'm cringing at the fact that these URMs were admitted at the expense of LEGIONS of more qualified white and Asian students across the state and country.

The valedictorian of the high school I attended got rejected by Berkeley this year 🙄 and had to "settle" for Cornell University (he was also admitted to UPenn and Brown)...the painful part about this was that Berkeley was his first choice school ever since he could remember. His SAT I score was 1570 and his GPA was absolutely phenomenal (obviously...he was the valedictorian afterall). I cringe when I think of how disappointed he must have been when he went to the mailbox and saw the small envelope addressed to him from Sproul Hall. I cringe when I think of how he must have felt when he told his parents and friends that he was rejected (both of his parents are Berkeley alums...they...like everyone else in his life...were almost sure that he would be accepted). I cringe at the fact that his spot went to a URM student that had a GPA that was <3.0 and an unspeakably low SAT score.

I've heard people on this website spew drivel like, "No one will keep YOU out of med school...only YOU can keep yourself out of med school." This is absolute garbage...there are a FINITE number of spots in US allopathic schools...any spot that goes to applicant X is granted to applicant X at the EXPENSE of applicants A, B, C, D, E, etc (who could have been equally qualified). We are COMPETING for seats here...no one is GIVEN anything in this process...because applicant A is given a seat in a US allopathic school...that leaves ONE LESS seat available for applicants B, C, D, E, etc.

So I'm really not surprised that a URM was admitted with a 22 MCAT. It just confirms that painfully obvious in my mind...med school admissions (like life in general)..is NOT FAIR...and will never be fair. People with MCAT scores several standard deviations above Chalklette's MCAT score (with comparable GPAs) will receive roundhouse rejections from every US allopathic school they apply to this year. They'll look back at all the work they had to do, everything they've had to overcome in life, etc..and just feel demoralized, jaded, hurt, etc. Meanwhile, Chalklette can come back to this website and brag about her admission to Howard. This is the world we live in...a sad reality indeed...

P.S.: Before you begin to flame me...please keep in mind
1) I too am a minority...but unlike URMs...my minority isn't given any preferential treatment for jobs, college admissions, etc.
2) This isn't an AA thread so don't turn it into one...I was just using my rant about URMs with lower stats being admitted to underscore the MAIN point of this post which is that med school admission is NOT even remotely fair and we need to learn to deal with that. People with 3.8s and 22s will be admitted over tons of people applying with higher MCATs.
 
The sad thing about the whole affirmative action debate is that some URMswho DO do well and who DO score well on the SAT's, and who DO deserve to get in just as much as anyone else, regardless of skin color, end up feeling badly. When I was in high school, the pattern seemed to be that qualified URMs could get in anywhere, while qualified Asian or Caucasian applicants faced a bit of a crapshoot. However, I recall a friend of mine who got into Princeton, Penn, Yale, etc, who didn't even want people to know where she got in because she thought people would think she didn't deserve it. (She was a URM with 1500+ SATs, top of the class)

However, the reality is what it is, and URMs are often admitted with lower scores, and I think that if I were a URM, I would NOT have studied as hard as I did for the MCAT. I would perhaps have gone in with minimal studying, like Chalkette, because if you CAN get in with lower scores, why not? My first practice test score was a 22 and then I improved to mid 30's during the course TPR. So, I was, potentially, an applicant with a substandard MCAT score. Maybe if I hadn't had 1500 dollars to shell out for a review course, and time after work to devote to studying, I would have been.

But, lets get back to the topic of Failed Premeds. I hope that doesnt turn out to be me! :scared:
 
Not having the money is one thing, but not having the time is another. You obviously have enough time bc ur on this forum like 24/7.
 
NRAI2001 said:
Not having the money is one thing, but not having the time is another. You obviously have enough time bc ur on this forum like 24/7.


"Score one for Peter" --Peter Griffin :laugh:
 
NRAI2001 said:
Wow, they didn't pass the mcat eh. So what does it take to pass the mcat? Did they forget to their names?

This is a common misconception of people who have no idea what the MCAT is. I used to tutor general physics and a student asked me how I "passed the MCAT?" I didn't know how to reply.
 
Mr Reddly said:
Mr. Rad, where the heck did you find all those different faces...you always seem to have something cool to post on SDN!
 
UseUrHeadFred said:
Don't discount prestige as part of the equation. It shouldn't be a factor, but for most, it is.

Why else would going to Harvard be better than going to a state school?

That depends on what you want. If you want a school that gives you tons of resources to start a research project then yes it may be the best. But what if you want to work exclusively for a particular minority group or you can't stand to live in a cold area? Somewhere else may be better than.

As far as matching, you can't really say that a particular school will give you a better chance at matching in a particular program since it may just be that people that go to a more prestigous school are more capable than students from less prestigous one; if those people went to any school they may be just as successful. I have a friend that's the chief resident in FP at a particular school and he went to St. George.
 
chalklette said:
Your right I do have alot of time being that I took the MCAT like totally a year ago. OKAY. And like ok , I am only taking 2 classes this semester like ok.
You still sweating me!!!!! I bet you kiss a lot of ass at school too. IF we ever meet I will be sure to let you kiss my ass since you enjoy doing it so much.

OH and for GUY2000 and the rest of you males who really like males(YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE). Quit ridin his nuts!!!! Be your own person.

As for tearing me a new ass hole. All I can say is your so white. I love that about you. Sorry but I don't speak corny ass white boy who's upset because his his balls sit out farther than his penis.

I am really enjoying this. Everytime I try to overlook your pompous asses you keep starting sh%&. :laugh:

Is this a TOS violation? racist comments.. and more.
 
idq1i said:
More like a gross violation of the english language....

That should be a TOS violation too. But if that were so, half of SDN would be banned. :meanie:
 
chalklette said:
Hey you guys you know what you're right. I AM ABSOLUTELY SORRY FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART. I hope you all can forgive me!!!!! 🙁
I had quit cursing over a month ago but with all the comments on here I just couldn't resist. Please know that I have quit once again and my rudeness will never happen again.
I will retire my username as of today!!!!
Because I have a job now and I don't have time to play these games anymore. Thanks for occupying my time during my unemployment period.

Hey I gotta go.
Is that cool?
Thanks you guys are the greatest. 😍

McD's was hiring? :meanie:
 
chalklette said:
I agree with you. This is the main reason a lot of people don't do as well. These courses are expensive and if you're already in school and are having to pay your way through like many at my school it can affect your outcome. Either you don't have the money or you don't have the time. 🙁

some of us who aren't urms couldn't afford the courses either. does this put me at a disadvantage? maybe. did they take that into account when i applied to med school? nope.......
 
You don't seem to be very mature for someone who claims to be a mom.
 
chalklette said:
How clever? You're such a tight ass your criticizing my grammitical skillz despite my purposeful and deliberate disregard for the engrish language. I sorry. I be doin da best I can but deez wuds so dog gon tough ta spell. You ass. :laugh:

I think u be doin da best u can with half of a brain.
 
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Just great.
You guys can't keep it civil so now I have to hit the unsubscribe button.
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This doesn't sound right. I know there are about 125,000 applications (not applicants) for roughly 16,000 seats.
 
Mr Reddly said:
Just great.
You guys can't keep is civil so now I have to hit the unsubscribe button.

My thoughts exactly. This was a cool thread at first. Take it to PMs, people.
 
Anybody else convinced that Chalklette is a 21 year old white guy in the suburbs trying to get us all reved up about AA? This stuff sure tanked a decent thread though.

I really doubt many app's get in with a 22, URM or not... whatever www.mdapplicant.com says.
 
Mr Reddly said:
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Just great.
You guys can't keep it civil so now I have to hit the unsubscribe button.
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So tempting, but I just can't bring myself to do it.
 
Lion-O said:
It's interesting to me that at first glance, medical school doesn't seem all that hard to get into. After all, roughly 50% of applicants get in. And especially on these boards, you rarely ever hear people talk about failing as a premed, or not getting in somewhere. It's sort of disillusioning; it makes you forget that, by far, the vast majority of people who were ever premed have failed.

Lion-O,

Thanks for bringing up this topic that really doesn't get addressed too often here. Amidst all of the "Harvard vs. Full Ride" type threads, I think it is important for people to realize what a privilege it is to become a doctor.

In 2003, the average matriculant to medical school had an MCAT score of 29.6! Think about that, the AVERAGE 1st year medical student had an MCAT score which placed him/her in the 80th percentile of test takers.

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/examineedata/table0403.pdf

There a tremendous number of people who would be fantastic doctors but they are excluded because of the hypercompetitive nature of the process. The process itself is long and arduous, involving a tremendous amount of time and money.
 
What does urm stand for??
 
bigbaubdi said:
Lion-O,

Thanks for bringing up this topic that really doesn't get addressed too often here. Amidst all of the "Harvard vs. Full Ride" type threads, I think it is important for people to realize what a privilege it is to become a doctor.

In 2003, the average matriculant to medical school had an MCAT score of 29.6! Think about that, the AVERAGE 1st year medical student had an MCAT score which placed him/her in the 80th percentile of test takers.

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/examineedata/table0403.pdf

There a tremendous number of people who would be fantastic doctors but they are excluded because of the hypercompetitive nature of the process. The process itself is long and arduous, involving a tremendous amount of time and money.

Thanks a lot for the great response! Other than the first few responses to this thread, people sort of got off topic and didn't really connect with what I was trying to express. But yeah, you nailed exactly what I was thinking about. I like your use of "hypercompetitive;" I think it fits well. This process is unrelenting, and it's very easy to forget the people that fall by the wayside. I mean, if they don't speak up about it, and we don't think or talk about them, then it's not that difficult to forget that they ever even existed.

What should this teach us, and how should this make us feel? In bigbaubdi's case, he (sorry if you're female!) feels humbled and privileged. I'm sure some people who get accepted feel pride and accomplishment without sympathy for those who failed. Is there a right way to feel? I mean, no matter what emotions we experience, the reality of the situation won't change (and probably shouldn't change). The process will always be hypercompetitive, and the vast majority of premeds will not succeed.

Even after spouting off about all the people who didn't make it, I myself still have a hard time connecting with all those who have failed. All I see are these blurry waves of students in O chem/biology/MCAT prep who I see checking their grades, knowing that the dream is probably lost. And after all, people can fail in any context; premeds don't have a monopoly on it. Like everyone else, I'm most effect by witnessing those I know personally failing. But even then, it's hard to empathize too much when you have the glee of acceptance hanging over you.

In conclusion, I have no conclusion about how to feel. But I'm pretty unemotional in my everyday life, so I'm curious what those of you--I know some must have strong feelings--feel about the whole thing.

Oh, and if I interrupted something, feel free to ignore what I've posted, and continue arguing about URMs and what stats are acceptable for someone to be your doctor. 🙂
 
Lion-O said:
I'm sure some people who get accepted feel pride and accomplishment without sympathy for those who failed. Is there a right way to feel? I mean, no matter what emotions we experience, the reality of the situation won't change (and probably shouldn't change).

Why should I or any other medical student feel sorry for those that "failed"? I'm a first generation american. My family came here with nothing. I worked my ass off to get to where I am today. I didn't "take" anyone's spot - I earned my spot. If people ask serious questions on this board about improving their applications, I try my best to help out when I have the time. While I empathize with their situation, there is no real sympathy.
 
idq1i said:
I didn't "take" anyone's spot - I earned my spot.

I agree. It's unfair to say that a student took someone else's spot, when they've worked so hard to get there. Everyone who gets into medical school deserves to be there for one reason or another. It's unfortunate that there are more people who deserve to be in medical school than those who make it in. I'll apply 3 or 4 times if I have to, I know I deserve it, as does everyone else on this website. 😀
 
Doc Martins said:
there are more people who deserve to be in medical school than those who make it in

Yeah? What gives you or "them" the right to make this entitlement claim? You are not entitled to a medical education. You can only earn it through diligent, hard work. If your applicant profile is lousy, you're SOL. Work on improving it, or pick a different field
 
Doc Martins said:
It's unfortunate that there are more people who deserve to be in medical school than those who make it in. I'll apply 3 or 4 times if I have to, I know I deserve it, as does everyone else on this website. 😀

What really irks me is that med school admissions committees place a lot of weight on things like MCAT scores, which have practically no correlation with being a good doctor.

It is really depressing because I know several people whom I know would be fantastic doctors. They are extraordinarily compassionate and hard working but because of a stupid test like the MCAT, they have virtually no chance of getting into a US med school.
 
bigbaubdi said:
What really irks me is that med school admissions committees place a lot of weight on things like MCAT scores, which have practically no correlation with being a good doctor.

It is really depressing because I know several people whom I know would be fantastic doctors. They are extraordinarily compassionate and hard working but because of a stupid test like the MCAT, they have virtually no chance of getting into a US med school.

I think anyone who puts enough time into the mcat can get a decent enough score to get into a US school. If they can't they probably wouldn't be able to handle a US school.
 
idq1i said:
Yeah? What gives you or "them" the right to make this entitlement claim? You are not entitled to a medical education. You can only earn it through diligent, hard work. If your applicant profile is lousy, you're SOL. Work on improving it, or pick a different field

SO true. Almost 60% of the people who apply get into a US school, and many of the others go to a DO or carribean school. In other countries only like 10-20% get in and they don't have the option to do DO or go to an of shore school.
 
bigbaubdi said:
What really irks me is that med school admissions committees place a lot of weight on things like MCAT scores, which have practically no correlation with being a good doctor.

It is really depressing because I know several people whom I know would be fantastic doctors. They are extraordinarily compassionate and hard working but because of a stupid test like the MCAT, they have virtually no chance of getting into a US med school.

While I would like to agree with you, the fact is if it werent for MCAT and gpa med school admissions would be based completely on how hot someone was and how well they sucked up for 1 hour regardless of how big a gunner they might actually be.

At least the MCAT is neutral in that regard, its by no means perfect, but its better than the alternatives.
 
bigbaubdi said:
What really irks me is that med school admissions committees place a lot of weight on things like MCAT scores, which have practically no correlation with being a good doctor.

It is really depressing because I know several people whom I know would be fantastic doctors. They are extraordinarily compassionate and hard working but because of a stupid test like the MCAT, they have virtually no chance of getting into a US med school.

Actually I would have to disagree. If you have other outstanding characteristics it can make up for a low mcat score. At every school even if the average is 30 there are people who get in with 24-27 mcats. If they are truly as hardworking as you think they are than they should be able to get a decent score on the mcat. The mcat is knowledge based test not an aptitude test.
 
idq1i said:
My family came here with nothing. I worked my ass off to get to where I am today.

Please. The vast majority of people work their asses off to get anything out of life. Having worked hard to get into medical school doesn't make you special. News flash...We all worked hard to get here!!!

PS In this respect you're much like Chalklette. You both seem to feel entitled just because you worked hard. 🙄 You never stop to think that some people worked just as hard as you or even, dare we even imagine, harder????!!!
 
NRAI2001 said:
SO true. Almost 60% of the people who apply get into a US school, and many of the others go to a DO or carribean school. In other countries only like 10-20% get in and they don't have the option to do DO or go to an of shore school.
I could be wrong, but I believe that in France, 100% get in.
It's staying in that's the hard part. 😉
 
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