failing grades

[elacra_2000]

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question my brother is very determined to become a doctor but his GPA is 2.0 and he has failed 2 of his classes-0rgo and bio 318- he hasnt takent the mcats yet but he is still considering med school. any suggestions for him😕

 

[LifetimeDoc]

First the ABCs...

Academics: figure out why he is failing his classes and stop it! From here on out he needs to aim for all A's with just a handful of B's
Bust the MCAT: He'll need to show that he can do well on this exam
Clinical Experience: He'll need to get into the clinic (smell the patients as LizzyM would put it), and show that he knows what it's like to be around patients and what it's like to be a doctor.

First thing...stop the hemorrhage that is his academics.

 

[koennen]

question my brother is very determined to become a doctor but his GPA is 2.0 and he has failed 2 of his classes-0rgo and bio 318- he hasnt takent the mcats yet but he is still considering med school. any suggestions for him😕

How many more semesters does he have to try to pull up the GPA? To be brutally honest, with that GPA he would need a stellar MCAT score to even be considered for DO schools. Even then, his chances would not be good.

No chance for allopathic schools without a post-bac to show he can handle the work plus a 30+ MCAT.

 

[inside_edition]

question my brother is very determined to become a doctor but his GPA is 2.0 and he has failed 2 of his classes-0rgo and bio 318- he hasnt takent the mcats yet but he is still considering med school. any suggestions for him😕

tell him to meet with his undergrad advisor/dean and ask to remove those grades from his transcript. or just get him to transfer to a different school and start all over; if the medschools ask, "what happened at your first university", then you could just cite an example of personal reasons. this would only work if he improves bigtime at the newer institu.

 

[em783]

remove his grades from the transcript? how does that work?

i agree with the others, there is still hope and tell him not to give up because then he won't work hard enough to make the grades and get out of his slump. he should definitely look into either transferring to a school that may be somewhat easier for him to do well at, or just finish out his college without doing premed, and then doing a post-bacc after graduating. he'll have to work very hard, but he still has a chance.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

tell him to meet with his undergrad advisor/dean and ask to remove those grades from his transcript. or just get him to transfer to a different school and start all over; if the medschools ask, "what happened at your first university", then you could just cite an example of personal reasons. this would only work if he improves bigtime at the newer institu.

Unfortunately, transcripts are forever. Even bank robbers have a statute of limitations, but not students.🙄

 

[Robizzle]

tell him to meet with his undergrad advisor/dean and ask to remove those grades from his transcript. or just get him to transfer to a different school and start all over; if the medschools ask, "what happened at your first university", then you could just cite an example of personal reasons. this would only work if he improves bigtime at the newer institu.

Uhhh I don't think you can just make grades disappear, legally. Anyhow, how does retaking classes count at his institution? I think if you retake classes some schools either average out the grades or some schools just use the new grade entirely. Look into that.

 

[thoffen]

Uhhh I don't think you can just make grades disappear, legally. Anyhow, how does retaking classes count at his institution? I think if you retake classes some schools either average out the grades or some schools just use the new grade entirely. Look into that.

I've read on SDN of this happening for strong extenuating circumstances. Public schools may be restricted in their policies, and accrediting institutions may have some input, but I don't know what "legal" policies you're talking about here.

That said, OP, you haven't mentioned any extenuating circumstances, so most likely those grades will stand. Re-takes where the original attempt and grade is on your transcript for an AMCAS application are averaged into your GPA, regardless of how your home institution calculates it. For DO, this is a different story. Another option might be caribbean schools. If your brother is truly dedicated to his goal, he will do what it takes to get through it. However, the chances of actually obtaining an MD, getting good marks on your board exams, and finding a US residency are greatly diminished.

 

[FenderHM]

unless there were some lifestyle-relatec circumstances that he is willing to change, if he can't handle orgo and u-grad bio med school will rip him apart

 

[HumbleMD]

I've read on SDN of this happening for strong extenuating circumstances. Public schools may be restricted in their policies, and accrediting institutions may have some input, but I don't know what "legal" policies you're talking about here.

That said, OP, you haven't mentioned any extenuating circumstances, so most likely those grades will stand. Re-takes where the original attempt and grade is on your transcript for an AMCAS application are averaged into your GPA, regardless of how your home institution calculates it. For DO, this is a different story. Another option might be caribbean schools. If your brother is truly dedicated to his goal, he will do what it takes to get through it. However, the chances of actually obtaining an MD, getting good marks on your board exams, and finding a US residency are greatly diminished.

For the OP (that's original poster, you Elecra) my apologies for the jargon that was just rhown at you. To do a little translation (because I'm guessing you didn't know what half of the stuff everyone just talked about is), AMCAS is the standard medical school application yo usend out first to your schools. "DO" is a doctor of osteopathic medicine, which is different than an M.D., a "Medical Doctor." Both can go get a residency and become a doctor in a hospital. DO is easier and less strict about admittance (just don't let a DO hear me say that).

If he is a sophomore in college, it's perhaps not too late to bring up his GPA, which he truly needs to do. If that doesn't work, he could try a "post-bac" prgogram, which is usually a year program done after his undergraduate college schooling and will feed into medical schools.

As others have said, he definitely needs to evaluate how feasible, and how much work he's willing to do. Has he at all thought about Physical Therapy, Nurising, or Physician's Assistant school? There are many optional careers out there besides doctor that one can be working in a hospital with pateients with.

 

[Citrusxoxo]

Ummm Physical therapy, nursing and PA schools require pretty good stats to get in, you could not get in any of those schools with a low gpa.

 

[dutchman]

question my brother is very determined to become a doctor but his GPA is 2.0 and he has failed 2 of his classes-0rgo and bio 318- he hasnt takent the mcats yet but he is still considering med school. any suggestions for him😕

Tell him to do something else.

 

[DOC G.]

Strong upward trend
kick butt on MCAT
post-bacc either informal or formal
make sure everything else in the application is up to par
do NOT give up!

 

[stat3113]

df

 

[dutchman]

Medical school is not worth the amount of work required to bring him out of that funk. I personally think those are signs that he should be doing something else.

 

[PhantomfanMD]

question my brother is very determined to become a doctor but his GPA is 2.0 and he has failed 2 of his classes-0rgo and bio 318- he hasnt takent the mcats yet but he is still considering med school. any suggestions for him😕

Is this a joke? What difference does it make if he hasn't taken the MCAT? If he can't handle Orgo or Biochem, the MCAT won't be any easier and I don't think medical school will take someone who is seemingly illiterate in the sciences.

 

[PhantomfanMD]

If on the other hand, your brother has a 2.0 as a junior or senior, the road looks dark to tell you the truth.

If he's taken biochem and orgo he's definitely at least a junior. I don't think he would have any AP credits to get into these subjects earlier based on the 2.0.

 

[akademiks1989]

Medical school is not worth the amount of work required to bring him out of that funk. I personally think those are signs that he should be doing something else.

Not true..in my opinion.

 

[HumbleMD]

If he's taken biochem and orgo he's definitely at least a junior. I don't think he would have any AP credits to get into these subjects earlier based on the 2.0.

I'm not exactly a reach for the stars type person, but there have to be options (whether pretty or not pretty) out there. I don't know if you have the authority to so curtly declare him unfit for medicine at this point without knowing the whole situation. It may take ten years but those woul be ten years to prove his commitment or not.

 

[PhantomfanMD]

Uhhh I don't think you can just make grades disappear, legally. Anyhow, how does retaking classes count at his institution? I think if you retake classes some schools either average out the grades or some schools just use the new grade entirely. Look into that.

Regardless of how a single institution deals with retaken courses, AMCAS calculates a GPA with all your courses, and that includes classes retaken due to failure.

 

[akademiks1989]

I'm not exactly a reach for the stars type person, but there have to be options (whether pretty or not pretty) out there. I don't know if you have the authority to so curtly declare him unfit for medicine at this point without knowing the whole situation. It may take ten years but those woul be ten years to prove his commitment or not.

👍

 

[Stroganoff]

This isn't rocket surgery. He should know that he needs to re-take those courses for A's. All he has to do is put in the effort.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

Time for a flash of realism.

With a 2.0 GPA he has a 0.00 % chance at admission to any US allopathic or osteopathic program.

You mentioned he hasn't taken the MCAT, but he has taken orgo. This leads me to believe he's either in his 2nd year, or he's a 3rd year as an undergraduate. If, at this point, he got straight A's, he'd still finish with only a 3.0. Of course an upward trend in grades is fantastic if he got straight A's from here on out. But even a 3.0 will get you cut automatically before a human ever reads your application at some schools, and also chances are he probably wont be getting straight A's.

The honest truth here is that your brother might find it better to consider another career, or if he is truly absolutely unequivocally determined to enter medicine, his best shot will be through a foreign med school. There's nothing wrong with that, plenty of people go to the Carib or other med schools abroad. In fact in the general scope of life this can be a great experience, seeing other countries and experiencing life a different way. Altho coming back for residency is an altogether different matter... but I digress. The main point I wanted to raise here is that he cannot be wishy-washy on this, and that it's utterly not really worth it for him to waste his time pursuing this path if it's not meant for him.

The most troubling thing here is the fact that he failed these science courses and that his other grades dont appear to be stellar. Listen, med school is NOT something that anyone can do if they just put their heart into it. There's a reason that the selection process through admissions is so incredibly tough. Priority #1 is to not admit someone who is likely to fail in med school. The basic sciences in med school is no joke; they slam you fast and they slam you hard. Supposing he even did get accepted somewhere, will he be able to get through those basic science years? If he has a 2.0 right now, I can only conclude that he will not.

GRANTED - there may be some extreme extenuating circumstances for those low grades. You didn't really give us the whole picture. If he were, say, holding down a job while supporting his baby's momma and also dealign with some other big personal problems, then the 2.0 is less condemnable. But even so, the major point of my post here is that he needs to be realistic and make sure he makes the right choice as to whether he should even bother going down this path or not, because it can be a major drain on you and can be a phenomenal disappointment.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

Strong upward trend
kick butt on MCAT
post-bacc either informal or formal
make sure everything else in the application is up to par
do NOT give up!

I am not so quick to offer advice like this. In general giving up is bad, but there are times when you need to cut your losses and get out of dodge before the heat gets on. Bottom line: he needs some major back-up plans, which involve making other career plans.

The sad fact is that not everyone who wants to go to med school is able to do so. How many premeds did you know in college swore on their grandfather's grave that they'd be doctors? Think about your intro biology lectures. Maybe 70% of the class was premed, well I guess it depends on your school, but I can guarauntee you only a fraction of those who were premed made it through the wilderness into the MD/DO promised-land.

 

[tncekm]

question my brother is very determined to become a doctor but his GPA is 2.0 and he has failed 2 of his classes-0rgo and bio 318- he hasnt takent the mcats yet but he is still considering med school. any suggestions for him😕

Yeah, he's pretty screwed about now. If he wants to be a doctor he better be ready to spend quite a few more years in post bacc programs taking very hard classes in order to bring up his GPA and demonstrate he can hang w/ the hard classes.

 

[Stroganoff]

The OP registered in June and this is his/her first post. Could be nothing. But still, if the brother wants it so badly, shouldn't he be the one on SDN asking these rhetorical questions?

 

[gary5]

Well, if he's flunking classes, he's obviously not determined enough. The average applicant accepted to med school has GPA = 3.5, MCAT = 30. That's what he needs to get, one can be a little lower if the other is higher.

 

[elacra_2000]

How many more semesters does he have to try to pull up the GPA? To be brutally honest, with that GPA he would need a stellar MCAT score to even be considered for DO schools. Even then, his chances would not be good.

No chance for allopathic schools without a post-bac to show he can handle the work plus a 30+ MCAT.

He has three semesterr left

 

[elacra_2000]

Thanks for the advice.. He went to a community college and got just A's and B+s and goo EC.

 

[ShyRem]

There's always the carribean. (sp?)

 

[tncekm]

Thanks for the advice.. He went to a community college and got just A's and B+s and goo EC.

EC's are small fries in the application process--they're only good if ur GPA / MCAT are good.

 

[TMP-SMX]

Thanks for the advice.. He went to a community college and got just A's and B+s and goo EC.

CC grades may be looked down upon by many schools especially if he was doing poorly at a university originally.

 

[tncekm]

CC grades may be looked down upon by many schools especially if he was doing poorly at a university originally.

Yeah--it was that post that made me think this kid is a troll. In that statement he was simply trying to rag on kids that came from CC's first.

No 'A' student goes from a CC to a any Uni and becomes an 'F' student because of the difficulty level. If it happened, it would have to be an extreme case--I know there are a few CC's here in So Cal where that may happen, but you also may get killed before you leave those CC's too 😀

 

[igcgnerd]

Do c- in pre reqs like general chem need to be retaken?

 

[PhantomfanMD]

EC's are small fries in the application process--they're only good if ur GPA / MCAT are good.

definitely agree. ECs are like the final exam worth 25% of your course grade that even if you ace, will raise your final grade by about 3 points in the class, but if you don't take the exam (get involved), you get knocked down.

 

[PhantomfanMD]

Do c- in pre reqs like general chem need to be retaken?

Yes. I believe most institutions assign GPA values of 1.7 to C- grades, and anything under 2.0 for medical schools must be retaken.

 

[msa786]

with that gpa he could make a low notch caribbean med school

 

[TPROrgoTutor2]

If he has that gpa and has already taken orgo (Meaning probably not a freshman or sophomore), he does not have enough time to bring that GPA up. It would probably take another few years of A's in everything and a great mcat (35+... even 35 would be low) with great volunteering, research, and shadowing..

Sorry but it is a tough uphill battle here. Id go for carrib... No DO schools would touch him and he wouldnt pass the initial GPA cutoff for any MD schools (Prolly not any of the DO either)

Just my opinion, though.

 

[stixx]

He needs to work on those grades, for anything. A lot of things hinge on that.

Look at managment or engineering schools, many top firms will literally hand out fast track mid level job offers to the top 10% (by GPA) of a graduating class.

And those with arts/sciences degrees, there's an insane amount of competition for entry level positions. Certainly if a recruiter has to choose between two recent grads with similar experience, and one lists their GPA of 3.9 on their resume, well that's definitely going to help.

If he wants to increase his earning potential down the road with a masters, well it's pretty tough to get into graduate school too.

He may not have a chance at medical school (crazy cavelier summed it up well) but that's no excuse to keep failing....