Fairness of the selection process for foreign trained dentist.

[DrMarioRobles]

Hey there everybody, I wanted to ask you guys your thoughts about the selection process that U.S. dental schools adopt to select their students. The reason for that is because the country where I got my education from has a completely different approach, everybody is required to take an exam at the same time, and the candidates with the best scores gets the spots, that simple. You can take home a sheet with your marked answers after the exam so later on you can double check the questions and answers when is publicly available, and if there’s an answer that you think they marked wrong, you can send an e-mail explaining why you think the answer is wrong, and if they come into an agreement they’ll change or cancel the whole question for everybody, which I think is more transparent. I don’t think is fair/right that dental schools here in the U.S. can make a minimum requirement list in order for you to apply, spend money and then send you a letter saying you weren’t selected for an interview. If you’re selected for an interview I also don’t see a clear criteria to distinguish candidate A from candidate B if they have the same curriculum, it seems like they’ll judge you by your character, so if the person interviewing you don’t like you for whatever reason, there’s a good chance you won’t be selected, and in the end is all money that candidates lose. What do you guys think?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[PerioDont]

Hmmm…being judged for your character to me seems better than just being raw numbers on an exam score.

this is a profession of humanity dealing with peoples problems everyday. Being personable is extremely important and sometimes more so than knowing the chemical structure of a benzene ring. I agree it can be subjective to some degree but that’s the nature of life.

however the whole process is definitely way too expensive.

 

[DrMarioRobles]

Very reasonable argument, and I agree with you 100%, Dentistry is a career where compassion plays a major role, but don’t you think is very hard to assess one’s character in a single interview where most candidates are nervous and trying to put out a good impression? But most important, how can you establish a minimum requirement, allow that person to spend money and time with the application just so you can send out a rejection letter. I know this thread is not going to change anything, we have to follow and respect the process adopted by each country, this is just an observation.

 

[PerioDont]

What would you suggest as a better method?

an interview is a snapshot in time of the applicant. I’m not sure I can think of something else. Many schools already have you write essay questions on top of your personal statement.

of course we have to consider the financial and time resources of the applicants and the schools/interviewers. It sucks that the process costs so much and I hope something can be done to bring it down.

 

[DrMarioRobles]

What would you suggest as a better method?

an interview is a snapshot in time of the applicant. I’m not sure I can think of something else. Many schools already have you write essay questions on top of your personal statement.

of course we have to consider the financial and time resources of the applicants and the schools/interviewers. It sucks that the process costs so much and I hope something can be done to bring it down.

Stop to think about it, it is a tough question, because In one side you have the program coordinator and teachers wanting to interview the candidates to have a glimpse of what type of student/person they’re going to be dealing with for the next couple of years, but then in the other side this method can also give room for bias during the selection process. If the character/personality is something to take in consideration besides from a bench test and exam, Maybe an interview with the school psychologist rather then the teachers? I don’t know…
And yes, the costs involved in an interview can be pretty hefty, some schools charges as much as $2000 for an interview. Thank you for putting out a different perspective of seeing this situation. I guess in the end I just wish that if you meet the minimum requirements they at least invite you for an interview, I started applying this year, let’s see how things are gonna work out.

 

[PerioDont]

Really its 2000 for one interview? Is that specifically for IDP? thats absolutely ridiculous. Is that including travel costs?

I remember paying around 200$ per school application as a US applicant not including the cost of travel.

I'm not sure a psychologist would really know about how to screen applicants for dentistry honestly.

 

[DrMarioRobles]

Really its 2000 for one interview? Is that specifically for IDP? thats absolutely ridiculous. Is that including travel costs?

I remember paying around 200$ per school application as a US applicant not including the cost of travel.

I'm not sure a psychologist would really know about how to screen applicants for dentistry honestly.

Yes sir, I think that’s what Nova Southeastern University charges for their IDP interview not including travel expenses, of course that’s on the extreme side, but I would say the average should be around $500 for an interview not including travel expenses. Another observation during the application process is how some schools asks the applicant to apply through the ADEA CAAPID website, you send all your information to CAAPID “TOEFL, ECE, NBDE” etc… and then they’ll ask you to pay another fee to the school, and resend all the “TOEFL, ECE, NBDE” to them, so you’re paying for the same thing twice, which makes me think why are we even applying though the CAAPID website. Anyways, things everybody have to go through.

 

[oralcare123]

Hey there everybody, I wanted to ask you guys your thoughts about the selection process that U.S. dental schools adopt to select their students. The reason for that is because the country where I got my education from has a completely different approach, everybody is required to take an exam at the same time, and the candidates with the best scores gets the spots, that simple. You can take home a sheet with your marked answers after the exam so later on you can double check the questions and answers when is publicly available, and if there’s an answer that you think they marked wrong, you can send an e-mail explaining why you think the answer is wrong, and if they come into an agreement they’ll change or cancel the whole question for everybody, which I think is more transparent. I don’t think is fair/right that dental schools here in the U.S. can make a minimum requirement list in order for you to apply, spend money and then send you a letter saying you weren’t selected for an interview. If you’re selected for an interview I also don’t see a clear criteria to distinguish candidate A from candidate B if they have the same curriculum, it seems like they’ll judge you by your character, so if the person interviewing you don’t like you for whatever reason, there’s a good chance you won’t be selected, and in the end is all money that candidates lose. What do you guys think?

You should be grateful USA even lets you to enter their market of dentists after just two years of accredited education

 

[DrMarioRobles]

You should be grateful USA even lets you to enter their market of dentists after just two years of accredited education

I don’t think is a matter of being grateful or not because validating a degree is a pretty common and standard procedure across the world. Talking about dentistry specifically in some countries you’re required to go to medical school first and then specialize in dentistry “which is not our case”, so as long that your dental school is recognized and you show proof of your education and competency you shouldn’t have a problem. And remember is not just 2 years of education, some dental schools outside of the U.S. requires more credit hours and years to graduate then an American dental school, plus some of the foreign trained dentist that comes to the U.S. have already done they’re residencies.

 

[oralcare123]

I don’t think is a matter of being grateful or not because validating a degree is a pretty common and standard procedure across the world. Talking about dentistry specifically in some countries you’re required to go to medical school first and then specialize in dentistry “which is not our case”, so as long that your dental school is recognized and you show proof of your education and competency you shouldn’t have a problem. And remember is not just 2 years of education, some dental schools outside of the U.S. requires more credit hours and years to graduate then an American dental school, plus some of the foreign trained dentist that comes to the U.S. have already done they’re residencies.

You did not get what I wrote

 

[DrMarioRobles]

You did not get what I wrote

I apologize for that lol

 

[Foreverdental]

You should be grateful USA even lets you to enter their market of dentists after just two years of accredited education

Well...No one is entering to "market of USA Dentistry " just after 2 years.... our hard work and studying to get degree in home country are VALUABLE...USA should be grateful for having us

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

USA should be grateful for having us

We don’t even need all the dentists we train already, as there’s a broad oversupply of dentists in the US. What we have is a maldistribution of dentists. Unless you’re willing to practice in a rural area, you won’t be doing anyone here a favor. Make no mistake, these advanced standing international programs exist solely to serve as cash cows for dental schools.

Big Hoss

 

[Foreverdental]

We don’t even need all the dentists we train already, as there’s a broad oversupply of dentists in the US. What we have is a maldistribution of dentists. Unless you’re willing to practice in a rural area, you won’t be doing anyone here a favor. Make no mistake, these IDP programs exist solely to serve as cash cows for dental schools.

View attachment 340598

Big Hoss I agree about IDP Programs !!! Pure RIP offs !!! I wish someone closes ALL of them than send me to rural area ...

 

[DrMarioRobles]

Well...No one is entering to "market of USA Dentistry " just after 2 years.... our hard work and studying to get degree in home country are VALUABLE...USA should be grateful for having us

Well...No one is entering to "market of USA Dentistry " just after 2 years.... our hard work and studying to get degree in home country are VALUABLE...USA should be grateful for having us

Sometimes is kind of hard to interpret posts online, because we are not face to face and don’t get to hear the persons tone of voice, when I first read oralcare123 post I misinterpreted, I think he was being sarcastic, that we are lucky we “only” need to do 2 years of accredited education and not more because in the end here in the U.S. money talks. I’m pretty sure the U.S. and any other country appreciates foreign professionals, they bring different knowledge and experience with them and of course money for the schools lol. The only thing I question is the application process.

 

[PerioDont]

Sometimes is kind of hard to interpret posts online, because we are not face to face and don’t get to hear the persons tone of voice, when I first read oralcare123 post I misinterpreted, I think he was being sarcastic, that we are lucky we “only” need to do 2 years of accredited education and not more because in the end here in the U.S. money talks. I’m pretty sure the U.S. and any other country appreciates foreign professionals, they bring different knowledge and experience with them and of course money for the schools lol. The only thing I question is the application process.

You have to understand from the perspective of US dentists. We have spent a minimum of 8 years, and often between 4-700 thousand dollars to become dentists here in this country.

 

[oralcare123]

Well...No one is entering to "market of USA Dentistry " just after 2 years.... our hard work and studying to get degree in home country are VALUABLE...USA should be grateful for having us

I am talking about two years of accredited school. Majority of US dentists do a lot more

 

[Julident]

You have to understand from the perspective of US dentists. We have spent a minimum of 8 years, and often between 4-700 thousand dollars to become dentists here in this country.

I had to study for 7 years in order to become a dentist in Ukraine, so it’s only 1 year difference for me personally. Otherwise the whole process here seems like a big waste of time.

 

[HKSZYU]

I had to study for 7 years in order to become a dentist in Ukraine, so it’s only 1 year difference for me personally. Otherwise the whole process here seems like a big waste of time.

Did you spend 4-700 thousand dollars?

 

[oralcare123]

If an American dentist decides to go to practice to Europe, he/she would have to start their education from scratch. This is what I am talking about. In the States, graduates of verified schools are given an opportunity to become licensed after only two years of dental school and much less expenses then an average US student has to do. Even though the selection process seems unfair to you, you still have a great opportunity compared to starting the whole process from nothing and doing 8 years of schooling
Arguing about which country education is better or who spent more years is fruitless - if school is not accredited by CODA, it does not matter
Yes, schools could be a bit more unified in their criteria and more translucent in their process. But, truly - do you want to pay even more for that? I can assure you, that every school has a file on each candidate with scores and can give you reasons why they decided to choose one candidate over another. They wouldn't show it to you, unless you sue them
If you are so hurt by unfairness of US process - try Canada. Schools are more inclined to accept candidates based on numbers and not personality traits. I bet in Moldova you can even buy your seat

 

[Julident]

Did you spend 4-700 thousand dollars?

Based on your reply you are suggesting that international dentists are in a better situation because we didn’t have to pay that much?! Seriously? I think the road of becoming a dentist is pretty difficult for American and international dentist. International dentist pay a lot for their education in their own country + we will have a loan in the US as well of about 300 thousand dollars+ coming from the poor countries we are losing a lot of valuable time here and time is money+ have to support ourselves + our families since most of the time we are older. Also we are limited by the opportunities that American dentists have + limited by the number of schools that accept us. This conversation is pretty pointless and endless…

 

[oralcare123]

Based on your reply you are suggesting that international dentists are in a better situation because we didn’t have to pay that much?! Seriously? I think the road of becoming a dentist is pretty difficult for American and international dentist. International dentist pay a lot for their education in their own country + we will have a loan in the US as well of about 300 thousand dollars+ coming from the poor countries we are losing a lot of valuable time here and time is money+ have to support ourselves + our families since most of the time we are older. Also we are limited by the opportunities that American dentists have + limited by the number of schools that accept us. This conversation is pretty pointless and endless…

Judging by large numbers and fierce competition for IDPs, all the immense suffering is still worth it