FAQ: What are my chances?

[killinsound]

Thanks. I'm not really seeing any time to do rads research during 3rd and 4th year. Anybody have any advice for that?

And what is the best way to get a rads mentor? Shadowing? Get to know some during 3rd year?

You should have time to be honest. Even a couple hours a week can yield something. Research isn't a necessity anyways, it will just make your application stronger.

As for mentors, e-mail around to your faculty to see if you can chat/shadow one of the attendings. If you can ask your upper classmen about who is a good mentor that would help tremendously.

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[radfreak9]

Hello everyone! So I've been following this thread for a while now, and it is making me really curious.

I'm from midwest and hope to match a Residency program preferably in IL. If not, then somewhere in the midwest. What are my chances?

Here's my background:
Med school: Reputable school from Midwest
Step1: Low 250s
Step2: in Dec
3rd year clerkships - all Honors
Basic clinical sciences - most Honors in 2 years and few in 1st years.
AOA - hopeful
Excellent EC's and experiences including volunteering and working
No research in rads - but I plan on getting some in next few months..

I plan to match at a radiology program in IL. Can anyone please help me in guiding what would be my chances to match?

 

[deleted103644]

Hello everyone! So I've been following this thread for a while now, and it is making me really curious.

I'm from midwest and hope to match a Residency program preferably in IL. If not, then somewhere in the midwest. What are my chances?

Here's my background:
Med school: Reputable school from Midwest
Step1: Low 250s
Step2: in Dec
3rd year clerkships - all Honors
Basic clinical sciences - most Honors in 2 years and few in 1st years.
AOA - hopeful
Excellent EC's and experiences including volunteering and working
No research in rads - but I plan on getting some in next few months..

I plan to match at a radiology program in IL. Can anyone please help me in guiding what would be my chances to match?

You will definitely match in Illinois if you apply to all programs there.

I would apply to all the top programs in the Midwest as well as all programs in Illinois. Maybe throw in a few safeties in neighboring states as insurance.

I'd say your odds are 50/50 for a good Chicago program, but you can definitely stay instate.

 

[radfreak9]

You will definitely match in Illinois if you apply to all programs there.

I would apply to all the top programs in the Midwest as well as all programs in Illinois. Maybe throw in a few safeties in neighboring states as insurance.

I'd say your odds are 50/50 for a good Chicago program, but you can definitely stay instate.

Thank you for your input! 50/50 odds for Chicago program scares me.. I was hoping to do at either UIC or Rush! Ugh!

 

[deleted103644]

Thank you for your input! 50/50 odds for Chicago program scares me.. I was hoping to do at either UIC or Rush! Ugh!

If things stay uncompetitive, it's higher, but this process is always a crap shoot.

 

[wannabedocta]

Step 1: 235/99
Comlex: 620/90the percentile
Class rank: top 25%
2 Research publications non-Rads ( 2nd author)
1 Poster Presentation Award
Mostly HP's, few Honors on rotations

I'm a DO student and dead set on Rads, where should I apply? mostly community based programs? apply to 30-50 schools? or 60-80?
Thanks in advance

 

[MossPoh]

Thank you for your input! 50/50 odds for Chicago program scares me.. I was hoping to do at either UIC or Rush! Ugh!

There is always a bit of randomness with the process. A guy from my school matched one of those programs 2 years ago without connections to Chicago/Midwest and with slightly lower scores (I think).

 

[deleted103644]

Step 1: 235/99
Comlex: 620/90the percentile
Class rank: top 25%
2 Research publications non-Rads ( 2nd author)
1 Poster Presentation Award
Mostly HP's, few Honors on rotations

I'm a DO student and dead set on Rads, where should I apply? mostly community based programs? apply to 30-50 schools? or 60-80?
Thanks in advance

I would apply to as many programs as you can afford. You should focus on the Midwest and South.

The DOs I saw on the interview trail usually had impeccable stats (ie better than their MD counterparts). Yours would be below average for an MD candidate.

I think almost any US student could have matched somewhere last year, but you should be aware there are a handful of lower tier programs that should really be shut down and you don't want to wind up at one.

Frankly, if I were in your shoes I would apply to every program that isn't on probation in acceptable regions.

Not that I'd necessarily recommend it, but you could apply to every program for around $5000. Compared to the potential costs of not matching, the cost of medical school tuition, and the costs of the interviews themselves, that's a relative bargain.

In your case with mediocre stats and a DO, you really should not be stingy with applications (even in a less competitive environment).

Start narrowing down choices once you start getting interviews.

(If I were running ERAS, I would make each additional app increase in cost exponentially to discourage this behavior, but you should exploit the system as it is. It makes life tough for the PDs, but it's a no-brainer for you, just a bit more debt.)

 

[drizzt3117]

Disagree, I think with 253/AOA and all honors the poster is essentially a lock to match at one of rush, uic, loyola but I'd bet they match at UC or NW.

You will definitely match in Illinois if you apply to all programs there.

I would apply to all the top programs in the Midwest as well as all programs in Illinois. Maybe throw in a few safeties in neighboring states as insurance.

I'd say your odds are 50/50 for a good Chicago program, but you can definitely stay instate.

 

[drizzt3117]

Apply to at least 70 programs; I'd prolly do 80-90. Don't apply to top tier programs.

Step 1: 235/99
Comlex: 620/90the percentile
Class rank: top 25%
2 Research publications non-Rads ( 2nd author)
1 Poster Presentation Award
Mostly HP's, few Honors on rotations

I'm a DO student and dead set on Rads, where should I apply? mostly community based programs? apply to 30-50 schools? or 60-80?
Thanks in advance

 

[deleted103644]

Disagree, I think with 253/AOA and all honors the poster is essentially a lock to match at one of rush, uic, loyola but I'd bet they match at UC or NW.

Yeah, when I said top Chicago programs, I actually meant 50/50 at those two.

When the OP interpreted that as meaning Rush, Loyola, UIC as well, figured encouraging paranoia a bit wouldn't hurt.

 

[deleted103644]

Apply to at least 70 programs; I'd prolly do 80-90. Don't apply to top tier programs.

I'd still apply to top programs. Always worth a shot, even if it's a longshot.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'd still apply to top programs. Always worth a shot, even if it's a longshot.

Meh, waste of money. Even if they somehow get an interview they're not going to match. The only exceptions might be pitt and dartmouth (if you consider that a top program) otherwise I'd apply to low tier academic and community programs.

 

[deleted103644]

Meh, waste of money. Even if they somehow get an interview they're not going to match. The only exceptions might be pitt and dartmouth (if you consider that a top program) otherwise I'd apply to low tier academic and community programs.

You never know when an app will speak to an adcom for no good reason.

I saw enough randomness this year that I wouldn't count anyone out from any program, and wouldn't assume acceptance for anyone else.

 

[drizzt3117]

You never know when an app will speak to an adcom for no good reason.

I saw enough randomness this year that I wouldn't count anyone out from any program, and wouldn't assume acceptance for anyone else.

There is one DO resident among the ~800 rads residents in the top 20 programs (UCSD) and that person had 250 step 1 and all honors.

http://radiology.matchapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=680

 

[deleted103644]

There is one DO resident among the ~1000 rads residents in the top 20 programs (UCSD) and that person had > 255 step 1 and all honors.

It's up to the OP. I'd still pay money on the long shot. I agree it's unlikely, but you never really know.

Applying to all of the top 20 programs would cost only another $500 - I'd still risk it (assuming I'd actually want to go to all if them if they accepted me).

EDIT: Also, match applicants is woefully incomplete.

 

[drizzt3117]

It's up to the OP. I'd still pay money on the long shot. I agree it's unlikely, but you never really know.

Applying to all of the top 20 programs would cost only another $500 - I'd still risk it (assuming I'd actually want to go to all if them if they accepted me).

EDIT: Also, match applicants is woefully incomplete.

I've browsed the resident lists at all of the top 20 (and interviewed at 3/4 of them), no DOs exc the UCSD person; I posted their profile for reference.

 

[deleted103644]

I've browsed the resident lists at all of the top 20 (and interviewed at 3/4 of them), no DOs exc the UCSD person; I posted their profile for reference.

I'm not denying its a long shot (but I suspect there is at least one other DO, and definitely a handful of FMGs).

All I'm saying is I would personally choose to accept those odds on a $500 bet rather than give up preemptively.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'm not denying its a long shot (but I suspect there is at least one other DO, and definitely a handful of FMGs).

All I'm saying is I would personally choose to accept those odds on a $500 bet rather than give up preemptively.

There are 1-2 at Pitt, but that wasn't one of the schools I was counting.

When you apply to 90 programs scheduling becomes a major issue. I think you should prioritize by likelihood of success because most people can't attend 30-40 interviews.

 

[deleted103644]

There are 1-2 at Pitt, but that wasn't one of the schools I was counting.

When you apply to 90 programs scheduling becomes a major issue. I think you should prioritize by likelihood of success because most people can't attend 30-40 interviews.

I don't think he will get 30-40 interviews, even applying to 100 programs.

I agree you should cap at 30 interviews max, but that doesn't mean you eliminate programs before they invite you.

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't think he will get 30-40 interviews, even applying to 100 programs.

I agree you should cap at 30 interviews max, but that doesn't mean you eliminate programs before they invite you.

There were a few people here this cycle (admittedly MD) that applied to 70 programs with 220s and got 40 interviews... I figured being a DO with those #s would be approximately equivalent.

 

[deleted103644]

There were a few people here this cycle (admittedly MD) that applied to 70 programs with 220s and got 40 interviews... I figured being a DO with those #s would be approximately equivalent.

I don't think you can predict these things in advance, and it's much better to decline interviews than to have to add additional applications late.

Compared to the costs of medical school or the potential costs of not matching, $500 for another 20 programs seems like a bargain to me. Being cheap at this point in the process is not wise.

As I said though, I'd cap at 30 interviews for non-competitive candidates, 20 for competitive ones.

For applications, as many as you can afford/could imagine attending.

 

[Dr. USMLE]

I don't think you can predict these things in advance, and it's much better to decline interviews than to have to add additional applications late.

Compared to the costs of medical school or the potential costs of not matching, $500 for another 20 programs seems like a bargain to me. Being cheap at this point in the process is not wise.

As I said though, I'd cap at 30 interviews for non-competitive candidates, 20 for competitive ones.

For applications, as many as you can afford/could imagine attending.

Yeah I agree. I charge more than that just to edit personal statements right now. Of course, if money is tight and that $500 means the applicant can attend one less interview, then that's a different story.

 

[deleted103644]

Yeah I agree. I charge more than that just to edit personal statements right now. Of course, if money is tight and that $500 means the applicant can attend one less interview, then that's a different story.

Frankly ERAS should make apps exponentially more expensive as you increase the number to lower the burden on PDs, but right now the clear best individual applicant strategy is to over-apply.

I'd even take out more debt to do it (within reason).

 

[Dr. USMLE]

Frankly ERAS should make apps exponentially more expensive as you increase the number to lower the burden on PDs, but right now the clear best individual applicant strategy is to over-apply.

I'd even take out more debt to do it (within reason).

They don't really need to because most people already under-apply out of insanity. It would also be unfair to applicants to the hypercompetitive specialties like derm and plastics, who are essentially forced to pan-apply just to match.

 

[Shamsports]

I agree with johnnydrama and Dumb: I would pay the extra $500 and apply to all the "reach" programs you are interested in.

If you don't get any interviews from these programs, it was still worth a shot.

If you get overwhelmed with interview offers, obv you got something going for you, and you can go to a mix of "reach" and "safety" programs.

*Disclaimer: I have not gone through the match process yet (I'm finishing up my 3rd year) and will be applying to a different field, ophtho. However, a lot of upperclassman tell me to use this strategy for any specialty. It worked for me when applying to med school--I paid the extra $$ and applied to a lot of "reach" schools. Almost all of them rejected me outright, but one of my dream schools accepted me. Definitely worth the money.

 

[deleted103644]

Well done young padawan. But going into ophtho is a mistake, especially since you'll have to deal with optoms like Shrunek. It's not too late to switch to rads

Haha, after snooping on the OD forums after seeing his insanity, it looks like they hate him too, so I don't think we can judge ODs by his example.

 

[greg1184]

Well done young padawan. But going into ophtho is a mistake, especially since you'll have to deal with optoms like Shrunek. It's not too late to switch to rads

 

[MossPoh]

They don't really need to because most people already under-apply out of insanity. It would also be unfair to applicants to the hypercompetitive specialties like derm and plastics, who are essentially forced to pan-apply just to match.

Yes, but if the apps are reduced then every program will get fewer applications and those applicants will be competing against fewer people for those spots. There aren't that many of those programs anyway, so applying to all of them may not hit any theoretical limit set.

 

[Dr. USMLE]

Yes, but if the apps are reduced then every program will get fewer applications and those applicants will be competing against fewer people for those spots. There aren't that many of those programs anyway, so applying to all of them may not hit any theoretical limit set.

Nope...my bffs in med school went into derm and plastics. Derm has about 100 programs. Plastics is trickier because of the regular, combined and integrated programs. I only know about integrated, of which there are about 30 programs IIRC. If you combine every route to plastics, though, the # would almost def be higher than any arbitrary limit set.

I would also note here that if rads artificially limited the # of residency spots like derm (thereby endangering the field by increasing demand for mid-levels), then it would easily be the most competitive specialty.

 

[GTP]

Hey everyone,

I havent seen too many posts about this, so I just want to clarify. What kind of resume would a D.O student need to be fairly comfortable that they will match rads?

Thanks

 

[meister]

I'm not exactly an expert on DOs matching rads but I think an applicant with a 240 and strong clinical grades and/or research would have a great chance particularly if rads remains less competitive.

 

[GTP]

I'm not exactly an expert on DOs matching rads but I think an applicant with a 240 and strong clinical grades and/or research would have a great chance particularly if rads remains less competitive.

Thanks

 

[deleted103644]

I'm not exactly an expert on DOs matching rads but I think an applicant with a 240 and strong clinical grades and/or research would have a great chance particularly if rads remains less competitive.

Yes, you should match somewhere. I'd say you should look at where MD applicants with a USMLE 10-20 points lower than yours matched and that will give you a good sense.

 

[radsfads]

Hey guys, how are you? Im new to this board. Im applying to a residency in radiology this year and would like to get some input about what my chances are for a spot at UCLA, USC, or cedars (basically anything Socal), since Im from here.

Step 1: low 250s
Honors- all core rotations (Obgyn, peds, IM, surgery, family, psychiatry)
AOA: hopeful (?)
one research article published in undergrad
limited extracurriculars and leadership positions


Thanks in advance

 

[deleted103644]

Hey guys, how are you? Im new to this board. Im applying to a residency in radiology this year and would like to get some input about what my chances are for a spot at UCLA, USC, or cedars (basically anything Socal), since Im from here.

Step 1: low 250s
Honors- all core rotations (Obgyn, peds, IM, surgery, family, psychiatry)
AOA: hopeful (?)
one research article published in undergrad
limited extracurriculars and leadership positions


Thanks in advance

Would need better research and/or better boards for UCLA, but you should be able to stay in So Cal with good LORs.

 

[killinsound]

Hey guys, how are you? Im new to this board. Im applying to a residency in radiology this year and would like to get some input about what my chances are for a spot at UCLA, USC, or cedars (basically anything Socal), since Im from here.

Step 1: low 250s
Honors- all core rotations (Obgyn, peds, IM, surgery, family, psychiatry)
AOA: hopeful (?)
one research article published in undergrad
limited extracurriculars and leadership positions


Thanks in advance

No to UCLA and UCSD and maybe USC. Yes at cedars, kaiser, santa barbara.

 

[radsfads]

^ thank u guys. so u think i have no shot at UCLA? im planning on doing an away rotation there this fall.

 

[deleted103644]

^ thank u guys. so u think i have no shot at UCLA? im planning on doing an away rotation there this fall.

Anything's possible, but you would not have been competitive this year (a historically uncompetitive year).

 

[NeuroRay]

No to UCLA and UCSD and maybe USC. Yes at cedars, kaiser, santa barbara.

This makes me feel like I would have no shot either at those schools...

Step 1: low 250s

Junior AOA eligible but didn't make it, hopefully will make senior AOA

3rd year grades, all HP, 3 Honors (medicine, family medicine, radiology), our school doesn't really do P/HP/Honors, but if translated to that scale it would be like that

Research: 2 first author papers (one is a rads case report), 3 other basic science/clinical research/case report papers, NIH research fellow for a year (did radiology research), manuscripts in preparation/submitted, multiple abstracts

Officer in radiology society at med school, no extensive extracurriculars but assists the office of admissions, mentor premedical students, etc

Have strong family ties in California, so UCLA is definitely a top choice. Would like to end up at a top academic program in Cali or the Northeast. Based on the posts I just read... seems like I don't have a good shot... what other things can I improve on to better my chances? Thanks.

 

[HopefulRads]

interested in radiology

concerned about my mspe

recently saw my evaluation for surgery that said i had poor fund of knowledge and was unprepared for patients/cases, etc; talked to the attending bout it, etc n the conclusion is the attending just doesn't like me for w/e odd reason...

not sure if it's going to make it onto my mspe for my surgery paragraph (i got above avg in everything else on the rotation minus this eval) but wondering what if it does, that being said, this would be the only outlier in my mspe as every other comment is either good or excellent. was wondering how this will affect my chances at a top academic program (i wanna do academia medicine), step 1 in the 250s, aoa hopeful, lots of research (pubs + abstracts etc at least 15)

thanks

 

[deleted103644]

This makes me feel like I would have no shot either at those schools...

Step 1: low 250s

Junior AOA eligible but didn't make it, hopefully will make senior AOA

3rd year grades, all HP, 3 Honors (medicine, family medicine, radiology), our school doesn't really do P/HP/Honors, but if translated to that scale it would be like that

Research: 2 first author papers (one is a rads case report), 3 other basic science/clinical research/case report papers, NIH research fellow for a year (did radiology research), manuscripts in preparation/submitted, multiple abstracts

Officer in radiology society at med school, no extensive extracurriculars but assists the office of admissions, mentor premedical students, etc

Have strong family ties in California, so UCLA is definitely a top choice. Would like to end up at a top academic program in Cali or the Northeast. Based on the posts I just read... seems like I don't have a good shot... what other things can I improve on to better my chances? Thanks.

You should be able to get a decent academic program in the NE. Probably not MGH or UPenn, but a good shot at places like BU.

The top academic programs in CA are a long shot and there aren't enough of them.

 

[NeuroRay]

You should be able to get a decent academic program in the NE. Probably not MGH or UPenn, but a good shot at places like BU.

The top academic programs in CA are a long shot and there aren't enough of them.

thanks for the feedback, a little disheartening to hear is it bc of the step score or lack of research? i'm actually a cali resident, did ugrad there, gonna assume that doesn't change much. also go to a top 50 med skool (which is not a plus i know)

ne other feedbacks, thanks!

 

[deleted103644]

thanks for the feedback, a little disheartening to hear is it bc of the step score or lack of research? i'm actually a cali resident, did ugrad there, gonna assume that doesn't change much. also go to a top 50 med skool (which is not a plus i know)

ne other feedbacks, thanks!

You still have a shot and should apply, but you're on the wrong side of the curve. Apply broadly and let programs you really want know how much you want them (individualize the statements if you can, etc).

Also, watch Aunt Minnie to see when the first wave of interviews goes out. If you miss the wave at a top choice, start contacting them (without being a pest).

 

[HopefulRads]

interested in radiology

concerned about my mspe

recently saw my evaluation for surgery that said i had poor fund of knowledge and was unprepared for patients/cases, etc; talked to the attending bout it, etc n the conclusion is the attending just doesn't like me for w/e odd reason...

not sure if it's going to make it onto my mspe for my surgery paragraph (i got above avg in everything else on the rotation minus this eval) but wondering what if it does, that being said, this would be the only outlier in my mspe as every other comment is either good or excellent. was wondering how this will affect my chances at a top academic program (i wanna do academia medicine), step 1 in the 250s, aoa hopeful, lots of research (pubs + abstracts etc at least 15)

thanks

bumping since it looks like it already got overlooked, thanks

 

[deleted103644]

bumping since it looks like it already got overlooked, thanks

Most schools only include positive comments unless they are legitimately worried you might kill someone.

They will try to find something neutral or positive from your surgery evaluation, don't worry.

 

[fizzle]

You still have a shot and should apply, but you're on the wrong side of the curve. Apply broadly and let programs you really want know how much you want them (individualize the statements if you can, etc).

Also, watch Aunt Minnie to see when the first wave of interviews goes out. If you miss the wave at a top choice, start contacting them (without being a pest).

If step scores in the 250s, honors in all clinical core rotations, and several radiology publications are below the curve for UCLA/UCSD, then what would be considered above the curve?

 

[deleted103644]

If step scores in the 250s, honors in all clinical core rotations, and several radiology publications are below the curve for UCLA/UCSD, then what would be considered above the curve?

Skimmed over the publications, my mistake. That does increase the odds.

The lack of third year honors in more core rotations and USMLE <260 was what my prior assessment was based on...

As I said, apply everywhere, just remember it's a pretty random process.

 

[killinsound]

If step scores in the 250s, honors in all clinical core rotations, and several radiology publications are below the curve for UCLA/UCSD, then what would be considered above the curve?

he doesn't have honors in all rotations... he has HPs in the 2 most important ones - surg and im.

UCLA can pretty much have their pick of the litter. UCSD less so, but they still get all star applicants.

We're talking solid 250s - 260s, all Honors (or most), junior/senior AOA, with a few publications from top 25 medical schools.

Also, I think something important that is missing is how strong the home institution is in radiology. radiology is a small field and a personal phone call from someone well respected can go a long way.

For what it's worth, I had Step1/2 260s/270s, all honors, junior aoa, but only 1 relevant publication. i barely got off the waitlist at UCLA and got the big reject from USC, UCSD, Stanford, and UCSF.

However, I got interviews at all top programs in the midwest, south, and a large majority of them on the east coast (MGH, Hopkins, etc.) I was a california resident. I've also met people on the trail who told me they lied to the program directors at some programs in california telling them about strong ties to california when they had zero ties. That's why saying you're from california doesn't hold much weight. California is a tough nut to crack with UCSF/MGH followed by stanford and UCLA as the most selective programs IMO.

The extra research will earn an applicant a good amount of weight, but bear in mind that the top applicants have the research + the grades and scores.

 

[drizzt3117]

I mean, the CA programs are hard to predict; This last cycle I interviewed at UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, and Stanford (as well as UCI/UCD) but didn't get an interview from USC. I'll be at LA next year, and more than half of my incoming class is from Ucla with several applicants that were RTM everywhere. My stats were similar to ks (slightly lower step 1, higher step 2) but I went to a top 25 school and did a lot of research.

Fwiw, UCSF took people from UT-Houston, AECOM, and USF Tampa this year, so not sure pedigree is their top priority.