Fed retirement

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BuckeyeLove

Forensic Psychologist
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Hey all,
Was hoping to get some quick thoughts. What is ya'lls experience with federal retirement? Would you say it represents one aspect of why some might be pulled to VA/DoD/BOP work? Reason I ask is, a few opportunities have presented themselves which might make me consider a fed job full time. My biggest thing is...I have a state backed pension right now, and all other hospital systems that ive been asked to get on board with just could not match in terms of long term benefit. I also have an extraordinary amount of flexibility (essentially come and go as I please) and I know that's not gonna happen in the VA.

As always, any thoughts most appreciated.

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Federally-backed pension may be better or worse (and more or less secure) than what you can get through state-backed pension, depending on various factors. OPM has a website that gives more information on the Federal Employee Retirement System (FERS) here: FERS Information

I'd probably compare things like how long it takes to get vested, what your contribution rates would be, and of course what you anticipate your actual benefit/payment would be.

I'd say overall, federal retirement benefits are pretty good...if you can tolerate to the point of retirement, and if you're planning on using them to take your health insurance with you into retirement.
 
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It still a pretty good deal, but working for 20-30 years for the feds (especially VA) to reap the full benefits of such a plan seems unfathomable to me.

Obviously, people do it, but if you are already used to a "come and go as you please" and a do (mostly) as you please in terms of your clinical work...the VA will not be for you.

PS: If you were thinking about working for DoD, be prepared to wait 20 minutes at the gate each morning whilst a 19 year-old MP looks for Al Qaedas in your car. :) Or so I hear.
 
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I worked for the Feds for 12 years and because of my age was able to retire with a very small pension and the Feds pay the employer portion of my health insurance going forward. That's a tremendous value because it frees me up to work places without having to worry about the (sometimes) cr*ppy insurance or to work 1099.

My .02. YMMV
 
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The benefit of the VA really depends on where you are (geographically) due to the COL bumps varying by region. The health insurance is a more important benefit to me than the retirement currently as my wife's company provides pretty good retirement benefits, but terrible health insurance. The one of the smartest federal healthcare workers I met as an intern put in 20 years at the VA and left for a state job because he figured out that double dipping pensions worked best over the long term. If you are currently at a state job and can move to federal, it may be worth looking into as a long term play. I am not sure I will spend my entire career at the VA. However, if I can swing at least 10 years it gives me some retirement benefits as a backup and that may be enough time for me to be able to opt out medicare/insurance and build up consulting/PP work on the side and make the transition.
 
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The benefit of the VA really depends on where you are (geographically) due to the COL bumps varying by region. The health insurance is a more important benefit to me than the retirement currently as my wife's company provides pretty good retirement benefits, but terrible health insurance. The one of the smartest federal healthcare workers I met as an intern put in 20 years at the VA and left for a state job because he figured out that double dipping pensions worked best over the long term. If you are currently at a state job and can move to federal, it may be worth looking into as a long term play. I am not sure I will spend my entire career at the VA. However, if I can swing at least 10 years it gives me some retirement benefits as a backup and that may be enough time for me to be able to opt out medicare/insurance and build up consulting/PP work on the side and make the transition.

I had a supervisor in grad school that did 30 in VA (or close to it). However, his retirement date was in early 2002....waaaaay before the VA is what it is now. Heck, the VA I experienced in 2011-2012 (as an intern) is barely recognizable anymore.

He also started when he could smoke dope not so subtly on campus when he interned there in 1970-71 or so.

Point is: No way! Most psychologists who start there these days will not finish there 20-30 years from now. Not even close. Too much flexibility and too much other money to be had.
 
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Make less than PP. Have to ask for permission to take time off. Can’t: tell the truth about science because that might make someone mad, or mention the fact that patients are literally incentivized to not get better, or follow literal federal law (e.g., NICS reporting prohibitions).

Sign me up!
 
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I had a supervisor in grad school that did 30 in VA (or close to it). However, his retirement date was in 2002....waaaaay before the VA is what it is now. Heck, the VA I experienced in 2011-2012 (as an intern) is barely even recognizable anymore.

He also started when he could smoke dope not so subtly on campus when he interned there in 1968-69 or so.

Point is: No way! Most psychologists who start there these days will not finish there 20-30 years from now. Not even close. Too much flexibility and too much other money to be had.

It really depends on local options for jobs. VA is still one of the better job options outside of private practice in my area. I agree that fewer will see 20-30 years compared to the past. There seems to be a minority of good positions and larger number that burn people out in under 5 years due to demands placed upon them. I have relative freedom, a very light caseload compared to most other providers, decent vacation time, and a good salary.
 
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Make less than PP. Have to ask for permission to take time off.

My Former PCMHI Program Coordinator spent 5 years doing C&P nonsense.

Now... "coordinates stuff" and does meetings for the VISN for a whopping 130k/year (G2-14). RVUs generated=0. Go figure.

I make slightly more, and I don't have to sit in a chair from 8-5 because I am a "good steward of tax dollars."

By the way, anytime a supervisor mentions "steward of tax dollars"..."my tax dollars" or "this is a constitutional republic not a democracy"....that means they are about to be an arrogant dickhead! Trust me.
 
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I really appreciate everyone's input, so helpful. At this point I'm slightly leaning toward staying put where I'm at. My current supervisor is an ABCN neuro who was raised in the VA in the late 90s (how he put it), and although he has a selfish interest to keep me, his reasoning is sound, as I won't have the flexibility I have now with hours, my private practice/consultation, and productivity (he told me that he was at the VA when they didn't have those RVU things you guys always talk about, said it was a beautiful time that will never happen again lol). Thank you all.
 
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I really appreciate everyone's input, so helpful. At this point I'm slightly leaning toward staying put where I'm at. My current supervisor is an ABCN neuro who was raised in the VA in the late 90s (how he put it), and although he has a selfish interest to keep me, his reasoning is sound, as I won't have the flexibility I have now with hours, my private practice/consultation, and productivity (he told me that he was at the VA when they didn't have those RVU things you guys always talk about, said it was a beautiful time that will never happen again lol). Thank you all.

Honestly, the flexibility is priceless for me. It was maddening when I had absolutely nothing to do at the VA, but I had to physically be there anyway. Just a whole workday sometimes of reading and fiddling with my fantasy teams. So, combine flexibility with increased salary/compensation per hour? Can't beat it.
 
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Yes, flexibility at VA vs. what it sounds to be like where you are now will likely take a it.

I think VA can make good sense early in one's career for the stability and potential multidisciplinary support/learning, or late in your career for the retirement (health) benefits. Mid-career, it's a harder sell, especially if it limits your opportunities for stuff outside VA.
 
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Yes, flexibility at VA vs. what it sounds to be like where you are now will likely take a it.

I think VA can make good sense early in one's career for the stability and potential multidisciplinary support/learning, or late in your career for the retirement (health) benefits. Mid-career, it's a harder sell, especially if it limits your opportunities for stuff outside VA.

It really depends where your focus is in life. We have lots of people with young families at my VA. That seems to be a major pull for those that stick around. That said, we had several colleagues opt for PP after they had the kids.
 
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I know that one forensic neuropsych got to retire from the federal BOP when he was pretty young.

@erg923 , I neither know those acronyms, nor trust any situation that requires multiple “meetings”. Meetings are only acceptable when followed by the phrase, “...lunch will be provided”.
 
It really depends where your focus is in life. We have lots of people with young families at my VA. That seems to be a major pull for those that stick around. That said, we had several colleagues opt for PP after they had the kids.

Very true. If you're planning on having kiddos soon or have young children at home, and especially if you're the sole or most stable income in the household, there are worse gigs than VA.
 
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Yeah, there's definitely a tradeoff between the security of the VA and its lack of flexibility. I also appreciate the shoutout against RVUs, which are currently my biggest issue right now. I guess I should save that last part for the venting thread. ;)

Also, our retirement is pretty good but we moved mine to more stable investments so it hasn't been increasing as much. That's kind of a downer, but I guess 401ks won't be any better.
 
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Also, our retirement is pretty good but we moved mine to more stable investments so it hasn't been increasing as much. That's kind of a downer, but I guess 401ks won't be any better.

TSP is decent. If you get a job which carries Vanguard funds in its 401k/403b, you're in a similar boat. Better yet, go solo and shield a ton of money in other accounts.
 
Hey all,
Was hoping to get some quick thoughts. What is ya'lls experience with federal retirement? Would you say it represents one aspect of why some might be pulled to VA/DoD/BOP work? Reason I ask is, a few opportunities have presented themselves which might make me consider a fed job full time. My biggest thing is...I have a state backed pension right now, and all other hospital systems that ive been asked to get on board with just could not match in terms of long term benefit. I also have an extraordinary amount of flexibility (essentially come and go as I please) and I know that's not gonna happen in the VA.

As always, any thoughts most appreciated.

Just to provide some balance here: Even the people who didn't make it in the Federal system very long or left due to frustration I think will still acknowledge that objectively compared to what is out there in private sector the retirement plans are excellent in both Federal and state systems and are rarely ever matched in the private sector.

It is sort of complex depending on your length of service, minimum retirement age, etc. but effectively it works out to either 1% or 1.1% of your average high three salary multiplied by years in service. I'm a vested gov't employee and l will be looking at 40K plus per year just for waking up when I retire by 60. There is also a survivor benefit you can elect which reduces your annuity by 10% so that 50% of your monthly annuity will live on with your spouse after you die. Not going to help me but nice to know my spouse can keep collecting my retirement checks. In addition to this defined pension plan there is also a 401(k) style benefit called TSP referenced above where the government will match 5% on your behalf as long as you contribute at least that same 5%. This can be tax deferred or function like a Roth IRA and it's done pretty well, even recently. Also noted above already, you also take your employees contribution to your healthcare plan into retirement which can be a sizable benefit so you aren't stuck using Medicare as your primary in your golden years. If you are on a second career post-state job that's something to think about.

My best advice: Most of us aren't baby boomers or our parents who have a mentality that "work is work" and spend 40 miserable years working tfor the same company just for the stability and benefits. I think the other posters are valid when they point out that the lifestyle that suits you is key. You've got one life, you've got to enjoy it if you can. That said, working for the Gov't with all the rigidity included is still an extremely popular and sought after option for many psychologists. I certainly make more income in private practice but when I include benefits in that calculation it is not a landslide especially if I stuck to a 40hr work week lifestyle. It is true you have to ask permission to take time off, but it's almost hard for me to take enough vacation to use up all my 8hrs paid annual leave that I get each pay period and 8 hours sick leave per month. Every year I have been here I have received an annual performance bonus (usually not huge less than 2%) for being a top performer. Finally, if it is something you care about most of us are involved in faculty appointments, research or training programs in some capacity. Some folks get loan repayment incentives. I maintain a small consulting and testing practice outside of my day job because I have a flexible work schedule.

Yes, I can make a lot more money in private practice, that's true. But right now I make enough money, enjoy the benefits, well balanced work load, and career stability...even if I have to work a whole 8 hours in a row :)
 
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Just to provide some balance here: Even the people who didn't make it in the Federal system very long or left due to frustration I think will still acknowledge that objectively compared to what is out there in private sector the retirement plans are excellent in both Federal and state systems and are rarely ever matched in the private sector.

It is sort of complex depending on your length of service, minimum retirement age, etc. but effectively it works out to either 1% or 1.1% of your average high three salary multiplied by years in service. I'm a vested gov't employee and l will be looking at 40K plus per year just for waking up when I retire by 60. There is also a survivor benefit you can elect which reduces your annuity by 10% so that 50% of your monthly annuity will live on with your spouse after you die. Not going to help me but nice to know my spouse can keep collecting my retirement checks. In addition to this defined pension plan there is also a 401(k) style benefit called TSP referenced above where the government will match 5% on your behalf as long as you contribute at least that same 5%. This can be tax deferred or function like a Roth IRA and it's done pretty well, even recently. Also noted above already, you also take your employees contribution to your healthcare plan into retirement which can be a sizable benefit so you aren't stuck using Medicare as your primary in your golden years. If you are on a second career post-state job that's something to think about.

My best advice: Most of us aren't baby boomers or our parents who have a mentality that "work is work" and spend 40 miserable years working tfor the same company just for the stability and benefits. I think the other posters are valid when they point out that the lifestyle that suits you is key. You've got one life, you've got to enjoy it if you can. That said, working for the Gov't with all the rigidity included is still an extremely popular and sought after option for many psychologists. I certainly make more income in private practice but when I include benefits in that calculation it is not a landslide especially if I stuck to a 40hr work week lifestyle. It is true you have to ask permission to take time off, but it's almost hard for me to take enough vacation to use up all my 8hrs paid annual leave that I get each pay period and 8 hours sick leave per month. Every year I have been here I have received an annual performance bonus (usually not huge less than 2%) for being a top performer. Finally, if it is something you care about most of us are involved in faculty appointments, research or training programs in some capacity. Some folks get loan repayment incentives. I maintain a small consulting and testing practice outside of my day job because I have a flexible work schedule.

Yes, I can make a lot more money in private practice, that's true. But right now I make enough money, enjoy the benefits, well balanced work load, and career stability...even if I have to work a whole 8 hours in a row :)

Thank you for this very thoughtful response.
 
Just to provide some balance here: Even the people who didn't make it in the Federal system very long or left due to frustration I think will still acknowledge that objectively compared to what is out there in private sector the retirement plans are excellent in both Federal and state systems and are rarely ever matched in the private sector.

It is sort of complex depending on your length of service, minimum retirement age, etc. but effectively it works out to either 1% or 1.1% of your average high three salary multiplied by years in service. I'm a vested gov't employee and l will be looking at 40K plus per year just for waking up when I retire by 60. There is also a survivor benefit you can elect which reduces your annuity by 10% so that 50% of your monthly annuity will live on with your spouse after you die. Not going to help me but nice to know my spouse can keep collecting my retirement checks. In addition to this defined pension plan there is also a 401(k) style benefit called TSP referenced above where the government will match 5% on your behalf as long as you contribute at least that same 5%. This can be tax deferred or function like a Roth IRA and it's done pretty well, even recently. Also noted above already, you also take your employees contribution to your healthcare plan into retirement which can be a sizable benefit so you aren't stuck using Medicare as your primary in your golden years. If you are on a second career post-state job that's something to think about.

My best advice: Most of us aren't baby boomers or our parents who have a mentality that "work is work" and spend 40 miserable years working tfor the same company just for the stability and benefits. I think the other posters are valid when they point out that the lifestyle that suits you is key. You've got one life, you've got to enjoy it if you can. That said, working for the Gov't with all the rigidity included is still an extremely popular and sought after option for many psychologists. I certainly make more income in private practice but when I include benefits in that calculation it is not a landslide especially if I stuck to a 40hr work week lifestyle. It is true you have to ask permission to take time off, but it's almost hard for me to take enough vacation to use up all my 8hrs paid annual leave that I get each pay period and 8 hours sick leave per month. Every year I have been here I have received an annual performance bonus (usually not huge less than 2%) for being a top performer. Finally, if it is something you care about most of us are involved in faculty appointments, research or training programs in some capacity. Some folks get loan repayment incentives. I maintain a small consulting and testing practice outside of my day job because I have a flexible work schedule.

Yes, I can make a lot more money in private practice, that's true. But right now I make enough money, enjoy the benefits, well balanced work load, and career stability...even if I have to work a whole 8 hours in a row :)

Wait, is the pension in addition to TSP? Apparently I don't understand my own retirement benefits.
 
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Wait, is the pension in addition to TSP? Apparently I don't understand my own retirement benefits.

Yeah, your TSP is separate from the pension in FERS. Look at your pay statements, you'll see the TSP withdrawal as well as the one for your pension. I can't remember the last % increase, maybe something like 4%?
 
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Yeah, your TSP is separate from the pension in FERS. Look at your pay statements, you'll see the TSP withdrawal as well as the one for your pension. I can't remember the last % increase, maybe something like 4%?

Yeah, I think it's just under 4% now.

And @cara susanna, like Wis said, yep--your FERS consists of 3 things: TSP, Social Security, and the pension (I forget VA's name for it...the Basic Benefit, or something like that). As was mentioned above, the amount of the pension basically equates to 1 or 1.1% times the average of your high-3 salary per year employed, once you're vested (which I think is after 5 years). Generally, the 1.1% is for 20 or more years of service. Of note, I don't think the high-3 calculation includes the locality adjustment, but I could be wrong.

If you leave VA before retiring, I think your options are to either take your personal contribution to the pension with you, or to leave it and convert it into an annuity based on what your benefit would be when you retire.

Also important to remember is that if you want to take your insurance into retirement, you have to begin drawing your pension immediately upon retiring. If you defer your pension, you can't keep your insurance at the locked-in rate.
 
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Haven't worked at a VA beyond practicum so not that familiar with federal benefits. Now I'm curious.

Do you contribute towards the pension and if so - how much? That seems key to how big that benefit is. If nothing, that sounds like a pretty sweet deal. Most of the state ones I looked at required contributions that would probably match or even come in less than what I would likely get investing on my own....except the money wasn't under my control and I was reliant on states balancing the budget to make sure my benefits remain intact. Scary. I'm sure federal is a bit more stable (but perhaps not as much as it once was given our current political climate?).
 
Haven't worked at a VA beyond practicum so not that familiar with federal benefits. Now I'm curious.

Do you contribute towards the pension and if so - how much? That seems key to how big that benefit is. If nothing, that sounds like a pretty sweet deal. Most of the state ones I looked at required contributions that would probably match or even come in less than what I would likely get investing on my own....except the money wasn't under my control and I was reliant on states balancing the budget to make sure my benefits remain intact. Scary. I'm sure federal is a bit more stable (but perhaps not as much as it once was given our current political climate?).

AA posted it in another thread, just under 4% of your salary goes into pension.
 
One caveat, people are assuming that the pension will stay the way it is, that they will be grandfathered in, or that their pension is untouchable. Look into some of the recent state level court decisions regarding raiding pension funds. Expect some of those decisions to be used in the future to cut away at federal employee benefits, particularly considering the deficit bomb that is coming due to those corporate tax cuts and the pandemic. I much prefer funds that I have control of.
 
Ahhh, missed that. 4% isn't bad, would probably need strong stock market performance to match something like that over a 20-30 year career. I agree though - cuts are always possible and that is the big downside to pensions. Of course, the stock market can do weird and unpredictable things at inconvenient times too, though with proper diversification you can do a lot to mitigate the damage.

I wouldn't mind a pension like that if I end up federal at some point (unlikely I'd go VA at this point, but I assume NIH/CDC/etc. are on a similar system), but I'd absolutely be saving a healthy amount outside that too. The state pensions I've been eyeing though I would probably choose to opt out of participating in....
 
Ahhh, missed that. 4% isn't bad, would probably need strong stock market performance to match something like that over a 20-30 year career. I agree though - cuts are always possible and that is the big downside to pensions. Of course, the stock market can do weird and unpredictable things at inconvenient times too, though with proper diversification you can do a lot to mitigate the damage.

I wouldn't mind a pension like that if I end up federal at some point (unlikely I'd go VA at this point, but I assume NIH/CDC/etc. are on a similar system), but I'd absolutely be saving a healthy amount outside that too. The state pensions I've been eyeing though I would probably choose to opt out of participating in....

True, 4% isn't that bad. But, you;d really have to look at what would happen if you factored in being able to invest the difference in compensation amounts if you are able to leave the VA for a much better paying position. I will say that the stability and pension can be nice, but I do believe the financial benefits shrink for many people when you look at the alternatives, adjusted on a hourly compensation rate,
 
One caveat, people are assuming that the pension will stay the way it is, that they will be grandfathered in, or that their pension is untouchable. Look into some of the recent state level court decisions regarding raiding pension funds. Expect some of those decisions to be used in the future to cut away at federal employee benefits, particularly considering the deficit bomb that is coming due to those corporate tax cuts and the pandemic. I much prefer funds that I have control of.

States cannot print money. I am less concerned about federal pension plans than I would be about a state pension. That said, I am sure that the pension benefit will be further eroded down line line the same way FERS reduced the CSRS benefit (though we can collect SS income).
 
States cannot print money. I am less concerned about federal pension plans than I would be about a state pension. That said, I am sure that the pension benefit will be further eroded down line line the same way FERS reduced the CSRS benefit (though we can collect SS income).

I'd agree that they are most likely more secure than state funds, but I would almost guarantee that the program does not change multiple times in the next two decades, and not in the direction of beneficial for employees.
 
It's a major perk and benefit of public service work.

My non-government employer already tried to axe our pension plan in recent contract negotiations. I think that is the direction the world of retirement benefits may be heading outside of fed and state jobs. I'm just planning my retirement at this stage of the game based on my other accounts/holdings, the one's I fully own.
 
It's a major perk and benefit of public service work.

My non-government employer already tried to axe our pension plan in recent contract negotiations. I think that is the direction the world of retirement benefits may be heading outside of fed and state jobs. I'm just planning my retirement at this stage of the game based on my other accounts/holdings, the one's I fully own.

I'm not even planning on social security in my calculations.
 
I'm not even planning on social security in my calculations.

Same. It really has not entered into my calculations. I am unlikely to want to work full-time in a job till whatever age they move the SS retirement age to in the future (75 by then?).
 
Same. It really has not entered into my calculations. I am unlikely to want to work full-time in a job till whatever age they move the SS retirement age to in the future (75 by then?).

Yeah, if we even get 50% of expected benefits by that time, I'll consider it a huge win.
 
Yeah, I think it's just under 4% now.

Of note, I don't think the high-3 calculation includes the locality adjustment, but I could be wrong.

Locality pay is also included in your high 3 as are a few other things. There a list of includes/excludes. I am in a high cost of living area so this is actually pretty substantial.

The amount you have to contribute to your pension depends on when you were hired but this is more of a for your info. Most of us only have to contribute 0.8 percent of their salary toward their future annuity but as noted above new hires now it is 4% or so. That's not too bad but sort of a shame because it was basically an almost "free" pension at that earlier rate.

My minimum retirement age is 57 by the way. That is the age I can totally cash out of here with full benefits, no penalty, collect my pension and take my healthcare with me. If I left now I could go work elsewhere and just defer my benefits until I turn age 60.

As other posters note, public pensions are constantly under siege across the country but I sincerely haven't lost any sleep over it myself. Probably safe for another four years but take it one executive office at a time.
 
Same here RE: SS though I will genuinely be surprised if we don't get anything. There are a number of potential fixes that are not politically palatable, but it actually wouldn't take THAT drastic of an overhaul to balance that budget in the mid-term. Whether politicians are willing to bite the bullet to make that happen is a separate matter. Either way I think it is wise not to plan on it though...worst case scenario you just delay taking it til late and get some longevity insurance in case you live til 110 after retiring at 55. I imagine most psychologists have fortunate enough financial circumstances they can afford meaningful retirement savings on their own and don't need to rely on social security, plus it makes up a smaller portion of our income anyways. I don't know what the person earning 30-40k who was counting on social security to replace the bulk of their income does if that rugs gets pulled out. I hope that doesn't happen.

How medicare is handled amidst out-of-control medical costs is more concerning to me than social security though. The latter is just going to dictate how "cush" retirement is and maybe whether I want to work a few extra years. Large changes to the former could spell bankruptcy risk for everyone, regardless of how strategic they were with savings.
 
How medicare is handled amidst out-of-control medical costs is more concerning to me than social security though. The latter is just going to dictate how "cush" retirement is and maybe whether I want to work a few extra years. Large changes to the former could spell bankruptcy risk for everyone, regardless of how strategic they were with savings.

If medicare becomes a mess, geoarbitrage or medical tourism are the name of the game. If in PP or teaching later in life, evolving telehealth laws, telecommuting, and distance/online learning will be of interest.
 
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Have easy access to citizenship in at least 2 other countries thanks to my wife. Perhaps the best insurance policy of all?
 
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RE: FERS basic benefits contribution rate, just for those interested:

  • For folks hired before 01/01/13 (or with 5 years of creditable service before that date), it's 0.8%
  • For folks hired between 01/01/13 and 12/31/13, it's 3.1%
  • For almost everyone hired 01/01/14 onward, it's 4.4%
0.8% vs. 4.4% isn't huge, but it does makes the basic benefit a bit less of a "deal" overall.

And yes, I was wrong in that locality pay is included in the high-3 calculation, as noted above. Not sure what I'd read about for which the locality pay wasn't included.
 
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Are leadership positions in the VA any more flexible than clinical positions generally?
 
Are leadership positions in the VA any more flexible than clinical positions generally?

More flexible in what way? Most psychology leadership positions in the VA are middle management. Having tried middle management in my Pre-VA career, I do not recommend the experience. This is especially true when you get the added benefit of having to navigate federal bureaucracy as part of your day job (Our last psychology chief had carved out part of his week (every week) to harass HR about processing recent hires).
 
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I've never met someone in a leadership position in the VA who thought that the added salary was worth the additional time and headache associated with the position. At my last VA, they were literally begging people to apply for the MH chief position.
 
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Not in terms of the work hours. Flexing more than half-hour was pretty much never granted when i was in the VA, no matter who you were.
 
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There are very few leaders at the VA, but a WHOLE LOT of managers...

The difference between a GS13 and GS14 at the 10 step is usually 20-25k difference or so. The amount of stress or workload with leadership positions varies a lot. That said, not many people want to just see patients their whole career and just be a worker bee. GS15 it can be 50k or more but for more senior gov't executive positions these pay peanuts compared to similar positions at private hospitals. The more the position scales up the more the disparity between private sector scales up in my observation.
 
There are very few leaders at the VA, but a WHOLE LOT of managers...

The difference between a GS13 and GS14 at the 10 step is usually 20-25k difference or so. The amount of stress or workload with leadership positions varies a lot. That said, not many people want to just see patients their whole career and just be a worker bee. GS15 it can be 50k or more but for more senior gov't executive positions these pay peanuts compared to similar positions at private hospitals. The more the position scales up the more the disparity between private sector scales up in my observation.

So, others can correct me if I am wrong. However, if you go from worker to manager, you don't keep the same step level (ex. gs-13 step 10 to gs14 step 10). You get what I believe is about a 2 step increase to begin with. So if you were making GS-13 step 10 money you start at gs14 step 6 and then have tp keep working your way up again. So the initial raise is only $6-8k and then you have to work your way up the steps. It is easier to keep a side PP, then do that IMO.
 
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I wouldn't hold out hope for a GS-15, I've never met a psychologist at that level of executive leadership. I'm sure it happens, but it is relatively rare.

I believe gs-15 is Chief of Psychology at most larger medical centers.
 
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