Feeling like the odds are stacked against us

[nuggetatheart]

This post is just to vent and see if anyone relates or if I am just being dramatic. Overall I feel lucky to have the opportunity to explore this path a little later than most. However I wasn’t expecting this level of inflexibility and hoop jumping that is even more of a challenge for nontrad students. Having a 9-5 job to financially sustain myself throughout this transition closes a lot of doors in terms of premed opportunities. it just doesn’t make sense to me to quit a 9-5 job with good pay and benefits that I won’t realistically find in a short term premed gig (scribe, MA).

I am feeling super overwhelmed sometimes. I work full time which spills into evenings. I’ve started to dip my toes in coursework (Orgo) which takes a day of the week. Now I’ve committed to an additional 20h/week clinical certification course. Not to mention research, volunteering, MCAT …
I don’t want just check boxes and lose myself, but I am quietly unsettled that nothing I ever do will quite be enough, even though I have a unique background and lived experience I am really proud of. It makes me feel like I might be a bad physician or poorly suited for this path. Despite all of the things pulling me towards it, there are always people and forces that try to dissuade me or make me question my motives and reasoning.

Am I approaching this the wrong way? Is there even a right way to be non traditional or premed?
Anyone feel similar?
Anyone feel differently, or have advice to reframe my mindset and expectations?

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[orthoPA81]

I think most non-trads have similar concerns and challenges. I applied to med school at 38 and it was a massive challenge. The only way it worked for me was agreeing to work every weekend and use my two days off a week to take classes at the local university. I also had to study for the MCAT on top of 40+ hr weeks working as a physician assistant.

I had no research experience or physician shadowing. MD programs basically snubbed their nose at me but DO programs were very receptive.

I’m now in my second year of med school and doing very well. I would do it again but it’s been a grind.

If you really want it, you’ll find a way.

 

[nuggetatheart]

Thanks for responding. Congrats on your journey and everything you’ve accomplished thus far Did the grind continue at that same level in med school? Did things get easier or harder?

 

[SWR1913]

I think most non-trads have similar concerns and challenges. I applied to med school at 38 and it was a massive challenge. The only way it worked for me was agreeing to work every weekend and use my two days off a week to take classes at the local university. I also had to study for the MCAT on top of 40+ hr weeks working as a physician assistant.

I had no research experience or physician shadowing. MD programs basically snubbed their nose at me but DO programs were very receptive.

I’m now in my second year of med school and doing very well. I would do it again but it’s been a grind.

If you really want it, you’ll find a way.

I'm a PA applying now at age 40. I echo your sentiments. Thanks for the encouragement. What school do you go to?

 

[orthoPA81]

Thanks for responding. Congrats on your journey and everything you’ve accomplished thus far Did the grind continue at that same level in med school? Did things get easier or harder?

The grind is ongoing, lol.

Med school is much harder than I expected. The workload is almost unbelievable and it's relentless. After a while you find a routine that works but it's exhausting. If you are able to put in the work for months at a time, you can be very successful.

I've realized that being academically gifted is not the key to being a strong student in med school. The best students are the ones able to put in work every day while still making time to take care of their physical/mental health. Finding/maintaining that balance might be the hardest part of this process.

Feel free to reach out if you have any other questions along the way.

 

[orthoPA81]

I'm a PA applying now at age 40. I echo your sentiments. Thanks for the encouragement. What school do you go to?

Good for you! I go to LECOM. I originally applied to the 3 year accelerated pathway but ended up deciding on the 4 year PBL pathway.

 

[Goro]

This post is just to vent and see if anyone relates or if I am just being dramatic. Overall I feel lucky to have the opportunity to explore this path a little later than most. However I wasn’t expecting this level of inflexibility and hoop jumping that is even more of a challenge for nontrad students. Having a 9-5 job to financially sustain myself throughout this transition closes a lot of doors in terms of premed opportunities. it just doesn’t make sense to me to quit a 9-5 job with good pay and benefits that I won’t realistically find in a short term premed gig (scribe, MA).

I am feeling super overwhelmed sometimes. I work full time which spills into evenings. I’ve started to dip my toes in coursework (Orgo) which takes a day of the week. Now I’ve committed to an additional 20h/week clinical certification course. Not to mention research, volunteering, MCAT …
I don’t want just check boxes and lose myself, but I am quietly unsettled that nothing I ever do will quite be enough, even though I have a unique background and lived experience I am really proud of. It makes me feel like I might be a bad physician or poorly suited for this path. Despite all of the things pulling me towards it, there are always people and forces that try to dissuade me or make me question my motives and reasoning.

Am I approaching this the wrong way? Is there even a right way to be non traditional or premed?
Anyone feel similar?
Anyone feel differently, or have advice to reframe my mindset and expectations?

You're in a marathon now, not a sprint. Med schools aren't going anywhere...and in fact, by the time you apply, more will have opened their doors or expanded their class sizes.

You'll have to take small bites. Take 2 classes part time. Volunteer in your off hours. You have 40 hours a week to work, and another 40 to sleep. In the other hours, figure out how to fill them with what you need to do.

You can also save up your money and then tak e a gap year to do when you need, and then apply.

The odds are stacked against people in undergrad, BTW. Only some 40% of applicants actually get into med school.

 

[SWR1913]

Good for you! I go to LECOM. I originally applied to the 3 year accelerated pathway but ended up deciding on the 4 year PBL pathway.

I'm applying there!!! Thank you so much.

 

[nuggetatheart]

The odds are stacked against people in undergrad, BTW. Only some 40% of applicants actually get into med school.

Definitely the reality check I needed. Thank you haha

 

[NontradICUdoc]

First of all. Relax and take a moment. You will not think straight if you are frazzled. As mentioned above, this is a marathon and not a sprint. You are going to have to take things one step at a time or else you run the risk of messing up and everything will be for naught.

since you have a full time job, what would you do to volunteer if you were not applying to medical school? There are things you can do on the weekend. Does your employer participate in any community outreach, if not then this is a great chance for you to get that volunteer experience and make a name for yourself and your company. You need to be able to think outside of the box because you are already outside of it and need to make some adjustments.

As for the other people, why do you feel the need to get their approval or impress them? The only reason to tell people your endeavor is to give you some accountability for yourself, that you said you were going to do something, now do it. But there is no need to get someone else's approval. My father in law tried to dissuade me. He failed.

 

[PeteytheFish]

I'm a current MS3 and started med school at 37, having had a completely different career beforehand. There's no real roadmap for those of us who go the non-trad way, but the road to med school for applicants like us does look different.

Yes, there are boxes to tick. You do need volunteer hours. You do need shadowing experience. I think @NontradICUdoc gave some great advice above for tackling those items.

BUT as you approach building your application, it is really important to remember that while those applying out of undergrad have to differentiate themselves with all of the extracurriculars, you get to differentiate yourself with the life you've already led.

You're right. It would be ludicrous to quit your job so you can go work as a scribe. You have bills to pay, and doing that as a means to get into med school would frankly look like poor decision-making. However, where the younger applicants can afford to do that, you will instead figure out how you can leverage your real life experience and create a narrative that makes it clear that you're a great candidate.

I have read so many posts on SDN from non-trads who think that they're at a disadvantage. At some schools that could be true, but in reality, I think that anyone who feels that way is approaching it the wrong way. You are not a kid, so stop approaching your application like you have to construct it like you're 21! Instead, take a hard look at the life you've lived, the wisdom you've earned, and the scars that you've incurred and figure out how you can use all of that to make your application irresistible. THAT is the advantage that non-trads have over traditional applicants.

I applied with a middling post-bacc GPA, a shocking MCAT score (I mean below some schools' hard cut-off), 80 shadowing hours, and no research, but thousands of volunteer hours and a very compelling story, and I'm at a very good MD school and doing very well (not the top of my class but not the bottom either). If I can do it, so can you: but you have to figure out how to tell your story and make your existing experience do the work on your application.

You can do this. Being non-trad is an advantage, I believe, and DEFINITELY an advantage when you're actually in med school. Keep your chin up. You've got this.

 

[nuggetatheart]

Thanks. Appreciate the reminder, marathon not a sprint

 

[nuggetatheart]

Thank you!! This was very wise and helpful advice

 

[rushingtide]

This post is just to vent and see if anyone relates or if I am just being dramatic. Overall I feel lucky to have the opportunity to explore this path a little later than most. However I wasn’t expecting this level of inflexibility and hoop jumping that is even more of a challenge for nontrad students. Having a 9-5 job to financially sustain myself throughout this transition closes a lot of doors in terms of premed opportunities. it just doesn’t make sense to me to quit a 9-5 job with good pay and benefits that I won’t realistically find in a short term premed gig (scribe, MA).

I am feeling super overwhelmed sometimes. I work full time which spills into evenings. I’ve started to dip my toes in coursework (Orgo) which takes a day of the week. Now I’ve committed to an additional 20h/week clinical certification course. Not to mention research, volunteering, MCAT …
I don’t want just check boxes and lose myself, but I am quietly unsettled that nothing I ever do will quite be enough, even though I have a unique background and lived experience I am really proud of. It makes me feel like I might be a bad physician or poorly suited for this path. Despite all of the things pulling me towards it, there are always people and forces that try to dissuade me or make me question my motives and reasoning.

Am I approaching this the wrong way? Is there even a right way to be non traditional or premed?
Anyone feel similar?
Anyone feel differently, or have advice to reframe my mindset and expectations?

I’m in a similar boat. I stopped working so I could go to school full time and volunteer. I am 34 and in the beginning of my post bacc journey. I am trying to stay positive and focused about all of this but today in particular I feel broken and alone. I’m at my NICU volunteer position crying and hoping no one notices. Reading your post was helpful because you really are not alone. You’re not. I’m on the opposite end where I gave up working to do this and now it’s all on my husband to pay everything. Thank gods for couples therapy. It really is nice to know that I am not alone and that someone else is feeling the same way I do. This process is tough.

 

[Fluidity of Movement]

Such a great post and support from everyone. If I might pivot for a frame:

I think it's stacked against the younger students. If you look, the extreme vast majority quit before every applying. Those who do get in, there are very many sad stories of young people burning out, washing out, or having a self-fatality. Looking at the young students who do make it all the way through, it's inspirational when I look back to myself at that young age and how tough it was to do anything, much less become a doctor.

I feel like being in my 30s is a huge cheat code now to when I started. Yes, there are unique problems we face, but we are better suited to solve them effectively.

I think if you compare the 25-30+ year old pre-med to the 18 year old pre-med, our overall success rates are infinitely higher 😎 We have to embrace and recognize and love ourselves for all the awesome stuff we have got through, and lean on that in the tough times.

Let's get it, everyone!

 

[Perlman123]

This post is just to vent and see if anyone relates or if I am just being dramatic. Overall I feel lucky to have the opportunity to explore this path a little later than most. However I wasn’t expecting this level of inflexibility and hoop jumping that is even more of a challenge for nontrad students. Having a 9-5 job to financially sustain myself throughout this transition closes a lot of doors in terms of premed opportunities. it just doesn’t make sense to me to quit a 9-5 job with good pay and benefits that I won’t realistically find in a short term premed gig (scribe, MA).

I am feeling super overwhelmed sometimes. I work full time which spills into evenings. I’ve started to dip my toes in coursework (Orgo) which takes a day of the week. Now I’ve committed to an additional 20h/week clinical certification course. Not to mention research, volunteering, MCAT …
I don’t want just check boxes and lose myself, but I am quietly unsettled that nothing I ever do will quite be enough, even though I have a unique background and lived experience I am really proud of. It makes me feel like I might be a bad physician or poorly suited for this path. Despite all of the things pulling me towards it, there are always people and forces that try to dissuade me or make me question my motives and reasoning.

Am I approaching this the wrong way? Is there even a right way to be non traditional or premed?
Anyone feel similar?
Anyone feel differently, or have advice to reframe my mindset and expectations?

I feel you. I went through the whole premed journey while working full time. I live in an expensive city with a 6 figure job. I'm also an immigrant in this country by myself. When I compare the obstacle that I have to faced, like trying to find volunteering opportunities that fit during my lunch break, to those of premeds in gap year, living with their parents so they can focus on volunteering and stuff, it's definitely disheartening. And because I couldn't quit my job or find volunteering opportunities that fit my work schedule, I think my app definitely suffer because of that. If it means delaying your application by a year to accrue more volunteering hours, so be it.

But like others have said, it seems like nontrad would shine during M3-4 with our work experience. At least that's what I'm' telling myself since I'm not M3 yet lol

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Don't think that the gap year trad applicants living at home feel any more assured; many wish they could live independently with a 6 figure job.

 

[peregrino]

I think @NontradICUdoc gave some great advice above for tackling those items.

BUT as you approach building your application, it is really important to remember that while those applying out of undergrad have to differentiate themselves with all of the extracurriculars, you get to differentiate yourself with the life you've already led.

Very true. An interesting perspective.

I applied with a middling post-bacc GPA, a shocking MCAT score (I mean below some schools' hard cut-off), 80 shadowing hours, and no research, but thousands of volunteer hours and a very compelling story, and I'm at a very good MD school and doing very well (not the top of my class but not the bottom either). If I can do it, so can you: but you have to figure out how to tell your story and make your existing experience do the work on your application.

You can do it.

Very inspiring are these successes.

 

[esob]

I would do it again but it’s been a grind.

Truer words have never been spoken! Thanks for sharing, btw, it is inspiring to others to see it be done. It's a shame that we don't have more fast track programs for PA's.