Fellow pre-med is asking me to help him cheat on a midterm

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
1. Make a list of everything you learned in class that wasn't tested on the midterm
2. Give him that list, and tell him it's everything tested on the midterm.
3. Profit

I wouldn't recommend telling the professor. You don't want to gain a reputation of being a snitch.
 
Aggie95 said:
1. Make a list of everything you learned in class that wasn't tested on the midterm
2. Give him that list, and tell him it's everything tested on the midterm.
3. Profit

I wouldn't recommend telling the professor. You don't want to gain a reputation of being a snitch.
Click to expand...

Best idea ever 🙄 You gotta do this one. This is a big lesson learned.
If you want a front row seat, wait outside the test to see their face.

Dont tell your professor. I promise you these things have a way of turning stuff around. I had a friend who would use religious holidays, when nothing was going on for them, as an excuse for extra study time. Stupid clinical fake problems. They got away with it a lot. Now, they are dropping one of my classes. Because this excuse behavior didnt go a long way. Cheaters get the same in the end. What if they turn around and start stuff with you....Just avoid the drama and enjoy the laughs.
 
Giovanotto said:
Don't help him. Don't tell your teacher. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
And if you are/were asked in a med school interview ethics question what you would do if you caught a fellow med student cheating, what would your response be?
 
walloobi said:
A (very obnoxious) pre-med student in my psych class had a scheduling conflict with our midterm, so the professor generously - although somewhat naively - allowed him to reschedule it for a few days later. We took the exam a couple days ago, and he's just texted me asking me to tell him about particularly tricky questions and specific things on the exam worth studying.

I'm of course not going to help him cheat by giving him any information about the exam. However, I really respect the professor, and we've grown relatively close as she has been incredibly supportive of me, so I'm wondering if I should let her know that he's taking advantage of her and not being ethical about this situation. I don't want to be a snitch (although that's just my pride getting in the way of what I feel is right to do), but I feel like my loyalties should lie with her, I don't want her to continue to be taken advantage of like this in subsequent semesters (she's very kind and sweet, but much too trusting), I don't want my fellow classmates' grades to be hurt by him affecting the curve (and I'm extremely happy with my score on the test by the way, so no, this is not me gunning for a better grade), and I certainly do not want dishonest and unethical pre-meds becoming dishonest and unethical physicians as colleagues a few years down the road.

Any thoughts or advice on this situation?

Also going to call in the big guns: @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn
Click to expand...

You're asking about ethics like this is an actual dilemma... dilemmas require hard decisions where most if not all outcomes are poor

Either break all integrity and character and put the weight on your shoulders or do the ethical thing .....

The fact that you would even consider helping your "obnoxious pre-med" cheat and destroy your relationship with your professor makes me question your integrity as a person... There is only one obvious choice here.
 
walloobi said:
And if you are/were asked in a med school interview ethics question what you would do if you caught a fellow med student cheating, what would your response be?
Click to expand...

Why is a medical school interview a central dogma of life ?
How many times has an interview ethics question been answered in order to cast a favorable light on the candidate answering....??...

"you are driving on a road and see someone was in a car accident and maybe in need of help. The ambulance has just arrived. What do you do ?"

Premed: "I stop and yell out I am doctor and see how I can help"
MD: "I look the other way. The ambulance is already there"
 
walloobi said:
And if you are/were asked in a med school interview ethics question what you would do if you caught a fellow med student cheating, what would your response be?
Click to expand...

I guess most people on here would lie.

I wouldn't help OP's classmate. However, if I found out after he took the test that he cheated, then I would snitch because **** non hackers who do not pack the gear.
 
Im going to go against the crowd and say you should tell the professor. I mean even if you arent convinced by the ethics(I can understand not wanting to be a snitch, especially in a case like this where he probably wont get any advantage in the end), then protecting yourself should be a priority. I dont know how it could happen but lets say he does well on the test somehow and somehow the professor finds out about the text sent to you. Then you might be accused of academic dishonesty. Actually some schools have it in their policy that not reporting cheating is academic dishonesty in and of itself, so even if he bombs you can get in trouble if they find out you didnt report it. And that is pretty much the one thing outside of criminal activity that can destroy your chances of ever getting in.
 
Really? You're worried about being a "snitch"? Tell the professor -- the kid is an inconsiderate idiot for putting you in that position, leaving a record of it, and expecting they won't get in trouble. Academic dishonesty is so common because people want to give others "another chance without hurting their record"/dealing with proceedings, but justice comes when someone actually holds their ground.

The student will continue cheating if they aren't caught or reported. This is rarely a "just once..." situation. Your prof, other premeds, etc deserve honesty/truth.
 
LizzyM said:
Respond "I could tell you but then I'd have to CC: the professor, too. Do you still want the information?"
Click to expand...
^Sounds great (and hilarious).

Definitely do not help him. It's up to you whether you should tell the professor. I have and would in this case.
 
walloobi said:
And if you are/were asked in a med school interview ethics question what you would do if you caught a fellow med student cheating, what would your response be?
Click to expand...

(personal opinion) In med school you tell if someone is cheating, because what you are learning in med school is related to your ability to be a physician (and potentially save lives). In this irrelevant psych class, dont tell the professor.
 
Whats wrong with you guys?

There is no need to sabotage this individual either.

No need to give him information. Just tell him its cheating and you dont do it. Dont snitch on him either. Just neutralize yourself from the situation.

Cant believe some of you actually want to sabotage this guy. Malicious as hell
 
The test will probably be different anyway. Don't give your friend the info, but I don't think it's serious enough to tell the professor. I've outed a couple of cheaters in class, but they've been people who have phones out during the exam actively looking for answers.
 
If you tell your professor and in future classes she is strict and allows no make-ups then that could negatively affect someone who would have a legitimate excuse.
 
Aggie95 said:
1. Make a list of everything you learned in class that wasn't tested on the midterm
2. Give him that list, and tell him it's everything tested on the midterm.
3. Profit

I wouldn't recommend telling the professor. You don't want to gain a reputation of being a snitch.
Click to expand...

While this would be hilarious, I'd worry that the OP could be considered complicit in the cheating just for providing a list, even if that list was not accurate.

As an aside, I really don't understand the point of this kind of cheating. It's undergrad. There is no way the test covers so much information that you can't just study it all. Just learning the stuff is way less stressful than having to worry about getting caught cheating.
 
Don't give them ****. You need to learn to not bow down to pressure like this now, because there'll be much greater pressure down the road, with much higher stakes. If you can't say no to the guy who's asking to cheat on his midterm, how are you going to be able to say no to the physician coworker that asks you to make a few "corrections" to your paperwork to help them out?
 
Many medical schools have honor codes that go something like this:

"I will not cheat nor tolerate anyone who does."

Whaddya think of that?



walloobi said:
A (very obnoxious) pre-med student in my psych class had a scheduling conflict with our midterm, so the professor generously - although somewhat naively - allowed him to reschedule it for a few days later. We took the exam a couple days ago, and he's just texted me asking me to tell him about particularly tricky questions and specific things on the exam worth studying.

I'm of course not going to help him cheat by giving him any information about the exam. However, I really respect the professor, and we've grown relatively close as she has been incredibly supportive of me, so I'm wondering if I should let her know that he's taking advantage of her and not being ethical about this situation. I don't want to be a snitch (although that's just my pride getting in the way of what I feel is right to do), but I feel like my loyalties should lie with her, I don't want her to continue to be taken advantage of like this in subsequent semesters (she's very kind and sweet, but much too trusting), I don't want my fellow classmates' grades to be hurt by him affecting the curve (and I'm extremely happy with my score on the test by the way, so no, this is not me gunning for a better grade), and I certainly do not want dishonest and unethical pre-meds becoming dishonest and unethical physicians as colleagues a few years down the road.

Any thoughts or advice on this situation?

Also going to call in the big guns: @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn
Click to expand...
 
Terry Toma said:
While this would be hilarious, I'd worry that the OP could be considered complicit in the cheating just for providing a list, even if that list was not accurate.

As an aside, I really don't understand the point of this kind of cheating. It's undergrad. There is no way the test covers so much information that you can't just study it all. Just learning the stuff is way less stressful than having to worry about getting caught cheating.
Click to expand...

I was mostly kidding in my post. Honestly, if I were in that position I would just ignore the kid and move on with my life.
 
Gandyy said:
Whats wrong with you guys?

There is no need to sabotage this individual either.

No need to give him information. Just tell him its cheating and you dont do it. Dont snitch on him either. Just neutralize yourself from the situation.

Cant believe some of you actually want to sabotage this guy. Malicious as hell
Click to expand...

Why is it sabotage? Believing "it's just undergrad, he'll be honest when it counts" is a cop out for when someone doesn't want to rustle feathers, I think. Either confront him and say it's wrong, or more correctly (in my mind) leave it up to the professor for how to handle it. And the idea that the professor should make a new exam (even though they usually say to not talk about it, etc) is another one that seems strange. That a professor needs to make multiple tests because otherwise undergrads are unable to avoid cheating is ridiculous. (For some reason I keep hearing George carlin say "She was asking for it! She had on a tight bathrobe!" Anyone? You can look it up...)

If a colleague is doing something wrong, it's on anyone around to set it straight. If it's an accident (tired, family troubles making then less focused, they just don't know better, etc) I'm more likely to be forgiving and help them out. If someone is intentionally lying/cheating/stealing/etc to give themselves an advantage.... Why is it on me to protect them?

And just to be clear: I don't necessarily think the professor should boot them from the class or anything, but if you actually want to change the individuals behavior you need more than a fellow premed saying "no". If they were a close friend id expect talking could help... If it's a random other undergrad you know, an authoritative figure can help make the situation actually have an impact for the better.
 
Last edited:
walloobi said:
And if you are/were asked in a med school interview ethics question what you would do if you caught a fellow med student cheating, what would your response be?
Click to expand...
My answer would be the one that I always give at interviews: I'd confront the person first. I don't want to leave it up to the teacher. There is a big assumption with these situations that this teacher will do the right thing, and I don't believe that is always the case.
 
Last edited:
Usually the honor code is required to be signed every term w/ every course or with every test or assignment. At least this was so at my university. It was clear that it was a very serious issue, and you would have had to be blind to miss it, since it was on everything you did or submitted. Tests or research/thesis work and all the rest would not be accepted without your signature, each time. Very serious business.

See now I would have given a certain sarcastic grin, raised my eyebrows, and walked away. If the person still didn't get it, I'd whip out one of those honor code statements that required signature--make a copy and hand it to him. You don't have to waste your time with this, and you don't have to be a jerk. You just have to be direct and move on.
 
What's up with all the "don't be a snitch" comments? I don't really see an issue with malice towards the person, trying to cheat is bad and should be punished, not just actual cheating. And bad reputation, c'mon. Would you all really have an issue with a friend if you found out they told the TA about that guy a seat over that kept trying to look at their exam?

Fellow students always making me so cynical
 
efle said:
What's up with all the "don't be a snitch" comments? I don't really see an issue with malice towards the person, trying to cheat is bad and should be punished, not just actual cheating. And bad reputation, c'mon. Would you all really have an issue with a friend if you found out they told the TA about that guy a seat over that kept trying to look at their exam?

Fellow students always making me so cynical
Click to expand...

Ya, I don't get it either. I wouldn't lose any sleep over mentioning it to the professor, especially if it is someone that I have a good relationship with. I don't understand how it is 'sabotage' to let a professor know that someone is trying to cheat on their test.
 
"I don't remember because I guessed on most of them"
 
I would tell them I couldn't help, and then I would suggest to the professor "hey, you should probably change the makeup test." Could be anything from "some of us have been carelessly discussing the test before the makeup date" to "someone is actively trying to cheat" Then the prof is aware of the situation and can decide themselves whether to chase things down the rabbit hole.
 
Cheating on typical multiple-choice questions or short answers test does not phase me. These tests are virtually worthless, and the only reason people cheat is because we, as a society, have an obsession with numerical grades and standardized testing. It's alienating.

I do not cheat myself nor actively support others doing it, but I understand their plea and certainly wouldn't report them to the prof.
 
Doudline said:
Cheating on typical multiple-choice questions or short answers test does not phase me. These tests are virtually worthless, and the only reason people cheat is because we, as a society, have an obsession with numerical grades and standardized testing. It's alienating.

I do not cheat myself nor actively support others doing it, but I understand their plea and certainly wouldn't report them to the prof.
Click to expand...

That brand of self-justification becomes a slippery slope real quick
 
mimelim said:
Ya, I don't get it either. I wouldn't lose any sleep over mentioning it to the professor, especially if it is someone that I have a good relationship with. I don't understand how it is 'sabotage' to let a professor know that someone is trying to cheat on their test.
Click to expand...

Thats not the "sabotage" part I'm talking about.

Earlier above people were talking about giving said person the wrong "study guide" so to speak. That is sabotage.

Of course, snitching on the person is also a viable option. It would not put you in the "wrong" so to speak to snitch on the person. If you look at the first few posts such as this...

"1. Make a list of everything you learned in class that wasn't tested on the midterm
2. Give him that list, and tell him it's everything tested on the midterm.
3. Profit

I wouldn't recommend telling the professor. You don't want to gain a reputation of being a snitch."

^^ That is malicious sabotage. If you need to do something about this, you tell the teacher, you dont go making some ridiculous list of topics so the said student can fail. Make them fail by go telling the teacher if you must. Again, I never said that snitching is sabotage.
 
NonTrad16 said:
Why is it sabotage? Believing "it's just undergrad, he'll be honest when it counts" is a cop out for when someone doesn't want to rustle feathers, I think. Either confront him and say it's wrong, or more correctly (in my mind) leave it up to the professor for how to handle it. And the idea that the professor should make a new exam (even though they usually say to not talk about it, etc) is another one that seems strange. That a professor needs to make multiple tests because otherwise undergrads are unable to avoid cheating is ridiculous. (For some reason I keep hearing George carlin say "She was asking for it! She had on a tight bathrobe!" Anyone? You can look it up...)

If a colleague is doing something wrong, it's on anyone around to set it straight. If it's an accident (tired, family troubles making then less focused, they just don't know better, etc) I'm more likely to be forgiving and help them out. If someone is intentionally lying/cheating/stealing/etc to give themselves an advantage.... Why is it on me to protect them?

And just to be clear: I don't necessarily think the professor should boot them from the class or anything, but if you actually want to change the individuals behavior you need more than a fellow premed saying "no". If they were a close friend id expect talking could help... If it's a random other undergrad you know, an authoritative figure can help make the situation actually have an impact for the better.
Click to expand...

Ok.... but making a study guide for a student asking to trick them into failing is pretty bad and malicious.

Snitching on them if you think it is necessary is fine if you must.

Thats the point I was trying to get across. I never said that snitching was malicious sabotage.
 
Gandyy said:
Ok.... but making a study guide for a student asking to trick them into failing is pretty bad and malicious.

Snitching on them if you think it is necessary is fine if you must.

Thats the point I was trying to get across. I never said that snitching was malicious sabotage.
Click to expand...
Ironically, though, the malicious sabotage would have a kinder outcome than the snitching.
 
mehc012 said:
Ironically, though, the malicious sabotage would have a kinder outcome than the snitching.
Click to expand...

yes, yes it would. The intent behind both actions is totally different though I think. In the end though, I guess a pre-med with this kind of mentality either squeezes through the cracks and gets boned somewhere along the line in medicine or they just get expelled from college.
 
Gandyy said:
yes, yes it would. The intent behind both actions is totally different though I think.
Click to expand...
It depends. Some profs deliberately sabotage cheating students in the same way, specifically to teach them the lesson on cheating without permanently blackmarking them. I could totally see somebody doing the same for a fellow student..."if I tell, they'll get an F and go before the Honor committee...this way they'll get the F, so they're punished for cheating and I don't feel that they're getting away with it, but it won't be permanent consequences."
 
mehc012 said:
It depends. Some profs deliberately sabotage cheating students in the same way, specifically to teach them the lesson on cheating without permanently blackmarking them. I could totally see somebody doing the same for a fellow student..."if I tell, they'll get an F and go before the Honor committee...this way they'll get the F, so they're punished for cheating and I don't feel that they're getting away with it, but it won't be permanent consequences."
Click to expand...

I do know that profs do that, but for some reason in my mind, it is malicious if a fellow student does it, but ok if the professor whose class the student is trying to cheat in does it. I do not know how to explain this notion.
 
Do what you're supposed to say you'd do when asked about a situation like this in an interview. First step is to talk to the person directly involved and explain why you think it's not okay, if he persists or doesn't agree that he shouldn't try to cheat, then you inform someone higher up etc. etc.

The first step is not to say, "WEEE-OOOO-WEEE-OOO I CAUGHT A CHEATER!!!!". You don't want to spend your life being a little b****. 🙂
 
ZPakEffect said:
There really is no well-documented evidence of people with these abilities. Pretty much a myth.
Click to expand...

Gandyy said:
Thats not the "sabotage" part I'm talking about.

Earlier above people were talking about giving said person the wrong "study guide" so to speak. That is sabotage.

Of course, snitching on the person is also a viable option. It would not put you in the "wrong" so to speak to snitch on the person. If you look at the first few posts such as this...

"1. Make a list of everything you learned in class that wasn't tested on the midterm
2. Give him that list, and tell him it's everything tested on the midterm.
3. Profit

I wouldn't recommend telling the professor. You don't want to gain a reputation of being a snitch."

^^ That is malicious sabotage. If you need to do something about this, you tell the teacher, you dont go making some ridiculous list of topics so the said student can fail. Make them fail by go telling the teacher if you must. Again, I never said that snitching is sabotage.
Click to expand...

I don't think that it is worth my time to make a fake study guide. But, if someone wanted to spend the time to do it, I certainly wouldn't blame them. They owe this other student nothing. The other student asked them to help them cheat, which some find offensive. I can understand why if someone is offended (or doesn't like other people getting grades they don't deserve or likes to see cheaters suffer) want to get back at them. As I said before, I think it is a waste of time and there are more important things to do, but I don't really see it as a negative. Is it malicious? Yes. But certainly a far cry from what the other student is asking of the OP.
 
Gandyy said:
I do know that profs do that, but for some reason in my mind, it is malicious if a fellow student does it, but ok if the professor whose class the student is trying to cheat in does it. I do not know how to explain this notion.
Click to expand...
Maybe because cheating is the student trying to put one over on the prof, so turnabout is fair play (esecially considering they could easily just do worse at their own discretion). However, cheating isn't at all personal for the other students, so it seems petty/malicious.
 
OMG, all this, and this for a mere psych class???? Are you kidding me? Unless you fear the student has some learning disability, it seems he's just being completely lazy. Holy crap. Ask him why he thinks he would need this, and then suggest he go to student services to get the help he needs. Psych is not a bustyb@lls course.

No need to be self-righteous. No need to play cop. Perhaps he's obnoxious b/c he has a learning disability; in which case, he needs to seek help from the appropriate people. If he's having trouble w/ psych, God help him further down the road. But try to be a human being. If he doesn't take the advice, talk to the professor or whatever. I try to give people a chance at getting help or to growing up if I can. If you have done what you can, maybe it's something that the professor can assess when speaking with him.

I wouldn't play games with a goofy fake study guide. He either has a genuine problem/issue, or he is just being a lazy jerk, who needs to learn to grow up.
 
mehc012 said:
It depends. Some profs deliberately sabotage cheating students in the same way, specifically to teach them the lesson on cheating without permanently blackmarking them. I could totally see somebody doing the same for a fellow student..."if I tell, they'll get an F and go before the Honor committee...this way they'll get the F, so they're punished for cheating and I don't feel that they're getting away with it, but it won't be permanent consequences."
Click to expand...
The chances that the professor will actually take it up to the Honor committee is likely pretty low unless the student is one that the professor hates. It involves doing lots of paperwork, going against a student panel who will almost always favor the student, and having to deal with the headache of university bureaucracy.

Reporting will probably result in a zero for the student and a "don't do this next time" wag of the finger.
 
cantankerous said:
The chances that the professor will actually take it up to the Honor committee is likely pretty low unless the student is one that the professor hates. It involves doing lots of paperwork, going against a student panel who will almost always favor the student, and having to deal with the headache of university bureaucracy.

Reporting will probably result in a zero for the student and a "don't do this next time" wag of the finger.
Click to expand...
Always be prepared for the worst feasible outcome.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Advice on pre-med activities?
Replies
1
Views
1K
unumsolum
unumsolum
T
Advice on First-Semester Course Selection for Pre-Med at Case Western
Replies
4
Views
943
LizzyM
LizzyM
J
Pre Med advisor
Replies
3
Views
2K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
Lebellee
online post-bacc pre med programs
Replies
17
Views
9K
2026PreMed
2026PreMed
FutureDOCTORR123456789
Is it weird to call a medschool in my area to ask what they look for?
Replies
4
Views
964
FutureDOCTORR123456789
FutureDOCTORR123456789
Top