Fellowship and Job Market Survey Reports

[idocyto]

The ASCP releases Fellowship and Job Market Survey reports.
http://www.ascp.org/PDF/Membership-Communications/Fellowship-and-Job-Market-Surveys-2009.aspx
It based on the 2009 RISE survey, but still represents the most recent report.

Apparently, a hematopathology fellowship couldn't guarantee employment even back in 2009.

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[2121115]

This pretty much debunks what has been posted here in the past regarding the the median AAMC published Asst Prof salary.

The survey quotes, "About 75% of academic starting annual salaries were less than $150,000 while 75% of community starting salaries were greater than $150,000."

I have never known anyone who started at the supposed AAMC 50th percentile for Asst Prof (which is like 170k). If you get offered 130k to start in academics then you are doing well.

 

[raider]

Although some residents received multiple job offers, 40% of those who formally applied for positions failed to receive a single offer.​

75% of academic starting annual salaries
were less than $150,000 while 75% of community starting salaries were greater than $150,000.
Vs.
According to a Merritt Hawkins & Associates study from 2009 the average salary for CRNAs was $189,000​

SO LOW PAY, LOW RESPECT, RISK OF MULTIMILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT, SIGNOUT 30-40+ CASES EVERYDAY AND NO JOBS!!!!! NICE​

 

[Nilf]

Although some residents received multiple job offers, 40% of those who formally applied for positions failed to receive a single offer.

75% of academic starting annual salaries
were less than $150,000 while 75% of community starting salaries were greater than $150,000.


SO LOW PAY AND NO JOBS!!!!!
​

It's the 40% of people who did not fellowship and who applied for jobs. Doesn't include folks with fellowships.

However...

15-20% of people who did hematopathology fellowship applied for jobs and did not receive a single offer. That's bad.

What about people who finished other fellowships? Why doesn't the survey provide the percentage of all pathologists who applied for jobs and didn't secure a position?

 

[2121115]

10-15% of people who did hematopathology fellowship applied for jobs and did not receive a single offer. That's bad.

That is weird. Pathoutlines looks like it is littered with hemepath jobs. Maybe hemepath just way over-trains. On the other hand, I have never known a hemepath trained pathologist who couldn't find a job.

 

[path24]

If its that bad for hemepath. I would guess its worse for other fellowships.

No surprise though...job market is still crap and is only going to get worse with the increase in individuals doing multiple fellowships. The pool of individuals looking for a job is getting bigger and bigger every year.

Why did it come out now? Late?

 

[Parts Unknown]

What about people who finished other fellowships? Why doesn't the survey provide the percentage of all pathologists who applied for jobs and didn't secure a position?

This data is accrued from the Heme and Forensic in service exams. If/when they initiate in service exams for other fellowships then we will have more data.

To boot, not every heme or forensic fellowship pays money for their fellow(s) to take the in service, so once again the data is incomplete.

 

[2121115]

This data is accrued from the Heme and Forensic in service exams.

Aren't those exams administered relatively early in the year? If so, maybe those would didn't have a job at that point got one later in the year.

 

[BrainPathology]

Although some residents received multiple job offers, 40% of those who formally applied for positions failed to receive a single offer.​

75% of academic starting annual salaries
were less than $150,000 while 75% of community starting salaries were greater than $150,000.
Vs.
According to a Merritt Hawkins & Associates study from 2009 the average salary for CRNAs was $189,000​

SO LOW PAY, LOW RESPECT, RISK OF MULTIMILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT, SIGNOUT 30-40+ CASES EVERYDAY AND NO JOBS!!!!! NICE​

Thanks for proving why so many of us don't deserve jobs.. this report isn't that tough to read. You just show that people who are supposed to be at the top of the algorithms in hospitals, counted on by everyone to gather all relevant data and then make a cogent reasoned diagnosis, more often act without thought, deliberation, education or good intentions.

I'm not sure if you're an actual pathologist or someone who hates pathology, trying to create the impression that we're all mentally damaged.

Honestly I'd prefer an enemy creating a charicature. If you're real and this inept at reading, gathering and interpreting data I can only imagine the number of corpses with your diagnoses all over them.

 

[Path or bust]

Thanks for proving why so many of us don't deserve jobs.. this report isn't that tough to read. You just show that people who are supposed to be at the top of the algorithms in hospitals, counted on by everyone to gather all relevant data and then make a cogent reasoned diagnosis, more often act without thought, deliberation, education or good intentions.

I'm not sure if you're an actual pathologist or someone who hates pathology, trying to create the impression that we're all mentally damaged.

Honestly I'd prefer an enemy creating a charicature. If you're real and this inept at reading, gathering and interpreting data I can only imagine the number of corpses with your diagnoses all over them.

easy

 

[Parts Unknown]

I find it odd that 120 people are listed as job hunting straight from residency (page 4). That would be a huge chunk of the PGY-4's taking the RISE.

 

[gbwillner]

This pretty much debunks what has been posted here in the past regarding the the median AAMC published Asst Prof salary.

The survey quotes, "About 75% of academic starting annual salaries were less than $150,000 while 75% of community starting salaries were greater than $150,000."

I have never known anyone who started at the supposed AAMC 50th percentile for Asst Prof (which is like 170k). If you get offered 130k to start in academics then you are doing well.

I wonder if these figures differentiate between Asst. Prof and instructor. I bet most residents who get a job in their institution (apparently 40% are offered a spot) start at the instructor level, probably making under $100K. From what i hear ave. Asst. Prof. jobs pay $125-200K.

 

[gbwillner]

I find it odd that 120 people are listed as job hunting straight from residency (page 4). That would be a huge chunk of the PGY-4's taking the RISE.

This publication seems to indicate that a majority of these people were unable to aquire a fellowship and were forced into looking for jobs.... I wonder if this is what happens when you train at a "bad" program and your scut-work time is over.

 

[2121115]

I wonder if these figures differentiate between Asst. Prof and instructor. I bet most residents who get a job in their institution (apparently 40% are offered a spot) start at the instructor level, probably making under $100K. From what i hear ave. Asst. Prof. jobs pay $125-200K.

Why would most start as instructor? All you need is a few case reports/small studies to start as an Asst Prof right? Most residents have at least that by the time they finish.

 

[Parts Unknown]

This publication seems to indicate that a majority of these people were unable to aquire a fellowship and were forced into looking for jobs....

Or it could mean that a lot of people apply for fellowships but simultaneously job hunt and opt to take whatever looks better come graduation.

Damn you, ASCP!

 

[Parts Unknown]

Why would most start as instructor?

In my experience many of the people who stay on do so because of family/geographic restrictions. In other words, the institution has them bent over a barrel, and can obtain Assistant Professor work for instructor salary. Usually this situation lasts less than a year and the individual receives an official appointment.

 

[exPCM]

The pathology job market is like the Titanic.
There are too many passengers and not enough lifeboats.

 

[gbwillner]

In my experience many of the people who stay on do so because of family/geographic restrictions. In other words, the institution has them bent over a barrel, and can obtain Assistant Professor work for instructor salary. Usually this situation lasts less than a year and the individual receives an official appointment.

THIS.
I also think the quality of the institution has a direct relationship to how likely they are to bone you with the instructor position. Many research-oriented folks without grant money are also given this route. They are likely to stay because they have ties to the institution and collaborators. The department can also rationalize it to a greater extent of you are not actively signing out cases that year and are attempting to establish yourself. I also agree that it probably does not last more than a year... but I don't know for sure. Regardless, this would significantly impact the "starting academic salary" and make things seem worse than they really are.