Fight for the Profession: Physicians, Residents, Med Students ONLY!

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by mountaindew2006, Dec 4, 2005.

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  1. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    Ok..

    Since our previous threads on this subj have been derailed, I am attempting to revive the cause.

    Please, if you are a NON-MD DO NOT POST on here. This thread is meant for MDs to share Ideas and thoughts w/each other.

    What's the subj at hand? Well, what can WE physicians, residents, and yes even medical students do to secure Anesthesiology from the ever invading CRNAs. What are ideas? I hope this will be a platform from which we can create ideas that eventually will be made into policy. Let's brainstorm CONCRETE ideas and how we can execute them.

    P.S. Let's keep this thread alive and try to keep it clean. Please refrain from attacking others. Although, any non-physician provider who decides to troll will be properly talked to :laugh: Once again this thread is for PHYSICIANS only.

    Thanks
     
  2. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    I think it is impossible to change anesthesia into a all MD specialty.

    It is just impossible...too many stools, not enough bodies, and not enough money.
     
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  3. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    Unfortunately I agree with MIL. It was discussed earlier about how anesthesia is a lifestyle specialty. If you want all MD anesthesia across the nation then you will negatively affect your lifestyle. I am in an all MD practice that is a rarity. My practice was created when a previous group and the hospital came to terms when a surgery center opened in town. The hospital decided to replace the existing anesthesia group and the surgeons wanted MD's. The hospital had to come up with a contract to attract anesthesiologists to town and accept the financial loss. As our practice grows we have discussed crna's and we all (administration included) decided that crna's were not what we wanted. The surgeons have to support the MD only idea for the hospital to accept the financial loss. Unfortunately surgeons don't care who does their anesthesia they just want to do their case when they want. Not much pisses off a surgeon more than telling them that there is no anesthesia available to do their case.
     
  4. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    There are certain exceptions....but for the most part, they don't care...just get the patient into the room
     
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  5. zippy2u

    zippy2u Senior Member
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    Um, Military summed it all up eloquently in his 1st post on this thread. Now can we go back and discuss other taboo subjects? Maybe I'll go back in my hole... ---Zip
     
  6. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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  7. toofache32

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    You beat me to it!
     
  8. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    Not too many comments in general about the "solution" that is needed??? from the docs???

    Does that mean everything is OK as it stands??? ...which is my opinion.
     
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  9. VA Hopeful Dr

    VA Hopeful Dr Senior Member
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    I once saw an ophthalmologist in Birmingham that ran 3 ORs doing nothing but cataracts 3 days a week. What 3 MDs want to step forward and devote over half their work week to doing nothing but anesthesia for this one guy?

    Obviously, MDs can't do it all. Someone has to pick up the cases like that.
     
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  10. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    well let's see MilMed...it's been a question for some time now. If we had a solution for the problem we prolly wouldnt need the thread now h uh.

    .


    finally...this concept does not mean that CRNAs should be altogether phased out. It means CRNAs need to be stopped in terms of getting more autonomy...they are friggin nurses NOT MD's.

    One solution is to increase the amount of AAs
     
  11. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    If you don't want nurses to have autonomy, then here is what you can do personally......when you look for a job...take the job where there are ONLY CRNAs right now, and immediately take away their autonomy...Supervise them.

    I'll tell you right now...that job is going to be in hillbilly country, and the hospital WILL be grateful to have you.

    Are you up for that? You seem really want to take away their autonomy, so put your money where your mouth is.

    If you believe in what you preach, I can send you a list of hospitals that I know that only have CRNA and would love to have a doctor.
     
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  12. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    so what do you propose? just curious? selling out the profession to CRNAs who will be hired at a cheaper rate? Oh yah, makes great sense, that way the young, 'budding' anesthesiologists can come out of residency making 150K (hmmm sounds an awful like waht you all pay CRNAs). Heck why have anesthesiologists anymore?

    MilMD, you speak like this because you've already cashed out or are in the process of doing it. Are you really that blind to realize that as a result of the heightened CRNA use, anesthesiologists will be payed a lot less. OH and dont give me that crap, "its not about money". If you're not concerned about $$ then why didnt you just become a ICU nurse (given your love for CCM) ? They have autonomy. Or better yet, why didnt you practice what YOU preached and become a CRNA (apparently you want them to have all the autonomy in the world). :cool:
     
  13. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Mountain, you're talking way above your knowledge base. And its people like you that cause problems on this forum.

    You AGAIN are posting erroneous information...you've posted that MILMD has already CASHED OUT...

    uh, young/naive/posting-stupid-a ss-s hit dude,

    Mil hasnt been in private practice that long. He spent 11 years in the military making less than the CRNAs in my previous/current practice make.

    Why are you making this a personal issue? Why are you lashing out at us?

    Your conclusions are totally wrong and are only exposing your ignorance.

    Wanna keep going toe-to-toe, Dude?

    Our posts are based on knowledge.

    Your posts are based on an ago that your checkbook cannot cash.
     
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  14. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Correction...

    Your posts are based on an EGO that your checkbook cannot cash.
     
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  15. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    Hey jet...you really ought to calm down. Your bullying tactics are fine when aimed at CRNAs etc. but you arent the "god' of anesthesiology. Secondly, it appears that only you and mr. Mil here are the only ones around here allowed to get personal.

    Where's VENT? dude you gotta regulate this classless guy named Jet. He clearly is inappropriate when he must resort to 'swearing'. Yes, he spaces his words out and thinks he's slick, but who's he fooling? Honestly, before this thread goes downhill Moderators PLEASE regulate this. You've seen his hx.

    Secondly to my friend Jet here. Dude, if you re READ my post and not just run over protect your 'online' buddy Mil... you will see that I wrote "cashed out or in the process of doing it". I realize he's still in practice. and i realize he's a CCM guy...WOW. hmm i actually read posts, not just jump to conclusions.

    Young and naive? DUde, you need to really lighten up. Take some time of the forum and spend it w/ your wife and kids. Yes, I'm young. So where a crap load of individuals taht made significant contributions to this profession. Significant discoveries and inventions which have led to the progression of the profession. So just because you have a few years on us, doesnt make you almighty and ominiscent.

    Well you tell me. Why do you think that MDs graduating from residency are making 150-180 like the OP posted? How come you were making well over that when you started. In one of your earlier posts you stated that you wouldnt work for anything less than 300K. Hmm sounds a little hypocritical to me buddy? So who's lining their pockets again? I'd love to see YOU satisfied w/ 150K. Until that, refrain from your hypocrisy and desire to comfort MilMd.


    But hey I do respect all anesthesiologists and that is why I'm not resorting to your level of swearing and childish name calling.
     
  16. VentdependenT

    VentdependenT You didnt build thaT
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    Chill on the s wearing folks.

    I gotta go back to this wickedly pathetic case report on CRPS.
     
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  17. jwk

    jwk CAA, ASA-PAC Contributor
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    From "Stripes"...

    Psycho - "Anyone calls me Francis, I'll kill ya"

    Sgt. Hulka - "Lighten Up Francis"
     
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  18. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    Th ank you
     
  19. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    No name calling involved. And I'm not going against you personally. Just your posts.

    Again, you are posting erroneous information.

    My starting salary in 1996 was nothing like the starting salaries of today.

    And youre right. In todays market, with my experience, I wouldnt work for less than 300K. Just a personal decision.

    I have no desire to comfort Mil MD.

    I do, however, have a desire to post what "real world anesthesia" is like, and what is involved with it.

    And until anesthesia residencies open up their slots to 7-11 managers, your model will not work.
     
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  20. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    Allow me to reiterate. I believe in the team approach.

    Dew, you said you didn't believe in it....so fine....don't work in a team. Do it yourself.

    And Dew, if you want to take away independent practice....let me reiterate again...THERE ARE PLENTYOF HILLBILLY HOSPITALS THAT WILL LOVE YOU WHEN YOU SHOW UP.....WOULD YOU LIKE A LIST?
     
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  21. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    Thanks, but no thanks for the list...I can probably just google them.

    Let me reiterate..."team" approach should not just mean CRNA and MD. It can mean MD&MD. I'm for a team approach in that circumstance.

    why are anesthesiologists having to go to HILLBILLY USA to mk $200-300K nowadays? REASON: you are willing to have this 'TEAM' setup w/CRNAs that you can pay half as much. "back in teh day" i'm sure both Jet and teh other 'elders' on this forum were warming stools (as MilMdreferred to it) for 200-300K. The only reason that you want the CRNA instead of that MD in your practice MilMD is because you would rather want to sell the profession and line YOUR pocket. Once again...think of the generations ahead of you.

    There are a hand few of groups out there that do not hire CRNAs because: 1) they dont believe in selling their profession out.
    2) a ALL MD practice is a lot more marketable to surgeons,etc then having a MD/CRNA model.

    What's teh greater good here man?
     
  22. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    SLIM,

    I don't hire CRNAs....they are hospital employees...like OR or ICU nurses...
     
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  23. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    slim

    you seem to have a fixation on the amount of money you are going to make....why is that????

    I'll answer this for you....

    The only reason you are anti-CRNA is because you fear that it will affect your bottom line.

    Where as I am not concerned about money...I've been making peanuts for 11 years....I'm just about providing good efficient care.

    Stop worrying about money, it will ruin your life.
     
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  24. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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  25. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    dear slick #2

    am i worried about paying loans back? living in a decent home? payign mortgage....sending three kids (dont have them yet) to college? paying malpract? paying general bills? paying for life ins in teh event that I die and that my kids will have something to live of off? jee if you dont have these concerns please tell me what planet you are practicing at and surely give me a list of hospitals on that planet.

    seems like those are pretty vital things to establish 'life' not ruin it. Dont twist my words slick.

    Go ahead man, be father teresa and work for $150K (blah blah i know you worked int eh mil for almost nothing..but come into the civilian sector and do the same). Coem on bro put your 'money where your mouth is". "Practice what you preach". Shoot...why even need $150k. when i'm done w/ residency i'll certainly manage your practice and allow you to volunteer for me. you're not concerned about money right. oh and that bmw bike of yours, just give it to charity as well. :confused: :confused:

    hypocrisy.......
     
  26. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    slim,

    What do you say about our CRNAs? You want me to tell the hospital to fire their employees???

    I made less than 110,000 at the end of my 11 years in the Navy....much less before....,

    It's not about the money......

    but it appears it is all about the money when we read your posts.
     
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  27. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    great you made less than 110K? nice to know. While uncle sam was paying you're way through school....i actually worked and put myself/parents into a $180K debt. now let's compund that tiems X years. So .....not really gonna get sympathy from us that PAY medschool etc.

    once again...i'm talking about CIVILIAN sector here.

    And no, i'm not minimizing your sacrifice in the NAVY...but hey we ALL had to suffer one way or the other.
     
  28. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Dude, this post proves you are a psychopath. I'm calling the FBI to tail you. :laugh:

    As JWK previously posted, from the great movie STRIPES,

    LIGHTEN UP, FRANCIS.

    P.S. are you really a crna trying to stir up s hit here?

    Thats how your posts come off.
     
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  29. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    dude didnt mom ever tell you not to SWEAR? do you think it's possible for you to go a month w/o swearing in a post? i got some Dove soap if ya need it.
     
  30. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Sorry youre offended.

    Eddie Murphy made a living out of swearing.

    Divert your obvious intellect to something more significant than correcting other people.
     
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  31. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    BTW,

    most people who correct people for superfluous issues have issues themselves.

    So unless you are Jesus Christ, with a clean, sinless record, back off.
     
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  32. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    Eddie Murphy didnt go to medical school either

    Do I want to maintain a 'clean' forum.. YES i do. I've been using this forum since I was in high school/undergrad. Would you want YOUR kids reading the kind of messages you leave on this forum. Nope (if your like any other parent). Your classless use of language depicts a meager image of an anesthesiologist to the young folks out there.

    Direct your obvious intellect to better articulation of thoughts.

    Seriously...cut the language out. it's classless.
     
  33. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    again..not Jesus Christ here. and yes I have flaws.

    SWEARING...is really an UNEDUCATED way of expressing yourself.

    Superfluous? Isnt it against the terms of service on the forum to swear on here? Big guy, I thought that's why you are spacing out your swear words. Be a man bro. Dont space them out. see how fast you will get thrown out of here. Doesnt seem so superflous now huh?

    Spacing them out or not...you are still expressing the swear words. You need to get teh boot.
     
  34. rn29306

    rn29306 Drugs are bad, m'kay?
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    No way Jet. Even a lowly CRNA could come up with a better screen personality than "moutaindew20006".
    Speaking of that, "mountaindew2006", dude do you live in the TN area? Saw some jackass on the road gulping md with a license plate that read "IMATOOL". Just wondering on the posibilities of conincidence here..

    LIGHTEN UP, FRANCIS
     
  35. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Whats your objective here, Slim?

    Seriously.

    Is this all about swearing, or is this about knowledgable posts concerning the REAL WORLD ANESTHESIA PRACTICE posted by MilMD, Noyac, Jet et al verses your bull s hit, naive, obviously I-dont-know-what-I'm-talking-about-but-I'm-trying-to-fake-it posts?

    What is your objective here?

    I'm gonna address you like we address the militant-terrorist-SRNAs that infiltrate this forum.

    What is your objective?

    You may not like it, but we tell you the story, real life, like it is.

    If you cant handle the fact that the team model rules, and CRNAs (AAs, jwk) are a SIGNIFICANT, CONTRIBUTING part of anesthesia, INDEPENDENT OF PERSONAL GAIN , then, again, Slim, you are living in a fantasy world.

    And, BTW, my current gig is Chief of Anesthesia at a southeast hospital. I get paid the same whether I do one case or a thousand cases. Yes, previously for 7.5 years I was in a fee-for-service practice. But it doesnt really matter.

    In my opinion, the team model still rules.

    SO, since I'm salaried, Slim, where does that put your argument of us "elders" making money off CRNAs?
     
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  36. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    Folks, here's exactly what I've been stating from the START. For guys like Slick, "...it doesnt really matter". He's cashed out. He did his 7.5 years, made his loot. Now, hey he can mk about the same and pimp out CRNAs.

    your petty threats. your petty swearing. Do what you want. I'm here to stay. bully around your CRNAs chief. this is my forum just as much as it's yours.

    Again i ask you. You seem to evade my questions. Would you want YOUR kids reading the kind of language written in your posts? Let's forget about your little , let's go to "war against MOUNTAINDEW". Answer my questions.

    your buddy MILMD wants to be an altruist. Hire him and get a CRNA in your hosp fired. Come on chief you got the power to do that right? He'll work for free (saves teh hosp money) and you will be hiring a MD which will mk me happier. :cool:

    One word for guys like SLICK (as can be clearly seen by his posts)...SELL-OUT

    Chief of ____ Hosp if you really are a chief, then pull the strings to have mroe MDs hired. come on i know you dont hire them but cant you advocate for them to be hired? I'm sure plenty will come to work for ya.
     
  37. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    OK, THANKS.

    You've posted that your priority here is POLICING THE FORUMS FOR SWEARING.

    OK, My bad. I'm at fault. I swear.

    I still advocate the MD/CRNA model.
     
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  38. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    your niche is politics. You never answer questions posed by other posters.

    who are you? I know you are from LA. Mayor Nagin is that you?
     
  39. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    know what?

    I'm thinking that you arent who you say you are, from your posts.

    Very, very few people here stir the pot....even ToughLife...who has his own opinions...is more reserved than you.

    Who are you? Are you really an MD/DO resident? Or are you some troll here just to stir antagonism?

    Tell us where you are, geographically, Slim.

    And we'll find out whether youre telling the truth or not.

    Maybe I'm crazy.

    But just a hunch.
     
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  40. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Politics? Au contraire, Slim.

    OK, I've figured out I've been wasting my breath with an imposter.

    Probably Justin.
     
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  41. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Dude,

    I dont really know how to reply to this post....

    yes, I do hire whoever works in the department, contrary to your post..

    and all the other bullsh it, well, I'm speechless.

    You've proven your ignorance.

    I have no reply.
     
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  42. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Posting error..

    I really DON'T know how to reply to this post...
     
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  43. toughlife

    toughlife Resident
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    MountainDew, you gotta take a chill pill dude. I, as you I have strong opinions about the issue but I think you got to also show some respect to others. I know how easy it is to let your emotions run and get the best of you, but you must keep them in check though.

    If you feel strongly about this issues, just make sure you take those ideas with you and try to implement them wherever you end up practicing.
    You know you won't change people's minds with that attitude and antagonizing everyone here isn't productive either.

    So spend your energies thinking about that cool fellowship you will like to do after residency and how you will make things work for you.

    If you have too much time in your hands, then do a SICU rotation. That should keep you busy. I am now and loving it. The anesthesia attendings running the neuro and SICU kick ass.


    My 0.02 cents
     
  44. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    cmon, mountain/Slim, reply to this so we can put a spot on you, and make sure you are who you say you are.
     
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  45. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    The above statement shows how little slim here knows. He is obviously not in anesthesia or just someone who IS in anesthesia and has no practice experience of any kind.

    Slim, look on gaswork....do you see how many jobs are posted??? Do you know why all those jobs are posted???? Its because there are more jobs than there are doctors.

    I've been trying to hire anesthesiologists for the last 18 months.....do you know how hard it is????

    Do you know how rare a bird a Board Certified anesthesiologist with experience is????

    I've found a couple recently, and I'm praying that they don't find something better and go there.

    I guess if it were up to you, you would just not cover the rooms and let the surgeons not do cases?????

    Do you know what would happen if any anesthesiologist advocated that???? There surgeons would hire CRNAs and REPLACE the MDs.
     
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  46. bell412

    bell412 Membership Revoked
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    mountain man's a SRNA? f uck an A!
     
  47. Frank Rizzo

    Frank Rizzo Member
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    Hell, I learned the majority of my foul language repertoire FROM my parents, especially my blue-collar father... his skills in the use of profanity can probably only be matched by the skills of Jet in the use of his laryngoscope! Do I curse??? Yep... do it at work( a lot!), at home, with friends, at the bar, where ever. I don't really f&cking care! I grew up with it, and its part of who I am. Now, if someone can't look past my language in order to judge me by my work and my actions, then they're the ones coming off as simple-minded and uneducated.
     
  48. VentdependenT

    VentdependenT You didnt build thaT
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 15+ Year Member

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    Redirect this steaming pile of feces or I'll be forced to close it.
     
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  49. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    Giddy Up, Vent. I can't stand it any longer. :thumbup:
     
  50. mountaindew2006

    mountaindew2006 Senior Member
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    Big Guy...sorry I actually have a life...do other thing during the day ya know. not on SDN 24/7 like you and MiLMD...i actually take care of pts, not just let CRNAs do stuff.

    So yup thats why I was busy. I'm just sick of arguing w/ you, you definitely are a waste of time at this point. you wont change, nor will I.

    To TOUGHLIFE: My attitude needs change? Dude do you konw SLICK over here? He acts like he owns this forum. He and MIL are NOBODIES. they are just like anyone of us on here. They use these little threats and automatically call ppl trolls etc whenver ANYONE crosses them. I think it's hilarious that no one sticks it to them. THey run rampant on here and swear and do whatever they please. So if you think I'm out of line, you really ought to reREAD some of Slick's posts (PS for the record he started the whole "slim' name calling frenzy).

    Do emotions get involved, heck ya. Am I passionate about this profession. yup. Sure am. Toughlife, etc not sure what you are (resident, etc) but fi you have any business experience (which obviously SLICK x 2 ) does nto have, you will really question their stance on CRNAs. as i stated earlier, these guys are lining their pockets...have made their loot and really dont care if CRNAs are getting paid to do the same job for 1/2 the rpice. SLick #1 already admitted, he wouldnt work for less than 300K.

    SLICKs, you guys really need to get a life outside of the hosp/SDN. maybe that will help you get a bigger picture of what the reAL WORLD business is like. I may just be a resident brother, but let's just say I have a little sense of business (been running an extremely profitable business sicne the age of 19)...
     
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