Fighting suicidal thoughts s/p forced to resign 2nd specialty

[UnemployedPGY3]

I want to keep this vague enough to conceal my identity. I'd like to give more info but my history is unique and would give me away. Don't wanna get committed.
I had started my residency in a new field after a gap in my training. I knew it would be tough to catch up with general clinical stuff. I finally was gaining traction, but enough people of power decided I was behind and got put under microscope 3 months in. Didn't even make it a full month into probation before getting canned. A lot of my co-residents and staff have been surprised to hear the news and asked why? Yes I was behind my peers, but not a lost cause. I'm trying to not take it personally. But without help to just get in to re-do a pgy1 year, I don't think any program would risk me. In the past I applied to primary care via ERAS but never got a nibble outside of rads, surgery or anesthesia.

I don't see any hope of getting to ever practice medicine. Yes, I can use my MD to earn a living but I'll always regret not being able to just provide primary care. Nothing fancy, I just want to be a real doctor after all this work. Withholding detail, I feel very prematurely shoved out of my program. How do I go on? I'm not hurting myself only because of my family. Plus I don't want to re-incarnate on this sh*tty planet again.

Going to the gym to blow off this energy building up inside me. This post isn't really for advice, but I need an outlet. I need help and hope.

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[Moose A Moose]

I'm sorry to hear this, OP. It sounds like you need some serious soul-seeking, meditation time. Maybe a therapist would help out to decompress and putting your thoughts out there. Just know your friends and family love you, and keep hitting the gym.

Best of luck to you.

 

[pancrease]

1 (800) 273-8255
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Please call.

 

[UnemployedPGY3]

Thanks pancrease. One of my co-residents happened to call right after posting this. She doesn't think the program did their due diligence at all. She thought I should try to appeal.
...sorry but I edited out the rest of post, it was too specific.

 

[Crayola227]

You're not the only person this happens to, there are some threads on here with practical advice on starting over and pursuing what seems like the impossible.

Just ignore the parts where a lot of old timers will basically say this is your fault somehow.
I'm sure there are plenty of terminated residents that got what was coming to them or were unremediatble somehow. I don't assume that because I think it is less helpful to innocent people than what is gained by being a harsh cynic to the people who deserved canning.

Plus I know people who got shoved out just for being a slow inconvenience way too early in the game. While the program has its own reasons to look out for itself and do this, mostly related to the human grist mill medicine has become, I see it as a violation of the oath of Geneva most of us took to treat one another as brothers and teach the craft, and a violation of the fidiuciary duty they take on when they accept Medicare funding to train us as a society, another doc.

Where there is a will there is a way. Look into the program in Missouri. Even if one day they do away with that, you may be grandfathered in somehow plus current experience working as a physician will always be helpful in looking for another program, no matter how slim or how far down the line.

It isn't over yet. And please don't hurt yourself. You were greatly wronged, get mad and worst case scenario dedicate your life to telling your story and revealing the profession for the farce it has become.

Check out Pamela Wible MD's stuff. She's an advocate for physician suicide and decreased quality of life in the profession.

I can't think of another profession as unforgiving and as crushing of altruistic dreams and the senseless waste and harm done as in medicine.

Check out my post history on these topics.

Godspeed and feel free to PM me with anything.

 

[bashwell]

I want to keep this vague enough to conceal my identity. I'd like to give more info but my history is unique and would give me away. Don't wanna get committed.
I had started my residency in a new field after a gap in my training. I knew it would be tough to catch up with general clinical stuff. I finally was gaining traction, but enough people of power decided I was behind and got put under microscope 3 months in. Didn't even make it a full month into probation before getting canned. A lot of my co-residents and staff have been surprised to hear the news and asked why? Yes I was behind my peers, but not a lost cause. I'm trying to not take it personally. But without help to just get in to re-do a pgy1 year, I don't think any program would risk me. In the past I applied to primary care via ERAS but never got a nibble outside of rads, surgery or anesthesia.

I don't see any hope of getting to ever practice medicine. Yes, I can use my MD to earn a living but I'll always regret not being able to just provide primary care. Nothing fancy, I just want to be a real doctor after all this work. Withholding detail, I feel very prematurely shoved out of my program. How do I go on? I'm not hurting myself only because of my family. Plus I don't want to re-incarnate on this sh*tty planet again.

Going to the gym to blow off this energy building up inside me. This post isn't really for advice, but I need an outlet. I need help and hope.

Sorry to hear everything @UnemployedPGY3. I agree with the wise advice and comments so far in this thread about getting help, etc.

But I wanted to ask you about the part I bolded in your post -- Does this mean rads, surgery, and/or anesthesia did show some interest in accepting you into their program(s)?

 

[UnemployedPGY3]

@ Bashwell, yes in regards to rads, surgery, and anesthesia. I matched 2 of the three. Went on a lot of prelim surgery interviews rather than TY or IM. Thanks to ERAS, applicants have to shell out tons more money and interview for intern spots and advanced pgy2 spots simultaneously. Went thru the ERAS grinder real big for at least 3 seasons. Each round of ERAS I did, flying across the country for 20-35 interviews cost me at least 75K over the years. ERAS itself charges around 2-3K just to rank more than 20 programs. This a huge underestimate, but I'm trying to ward off the bad thoughts of ending my life. My med school loans were decent when I graduated, but now are likely 350K. I stopped keeping track of my total debt bc of all I have lost. At least 20 yrs of my life chasing this dumb ass dream matters more than money.

@Crayola227, you hit the nail on the head

I know people who got shoved out just for being a slow inconvenience way too early in the game. While the program has its own reasons to look out for itself and do this, mostly related to the human grist mill medicine has become.

Yes yes yes. So the good PD who chose me, got out of the grist mill to save their own life. The PD replacement told me in August that he/she would have never taken me. There is so much I want to say about specifics but I can't...yet.

I have a license in another state, but signed an expensive lease where I live. Would just bail on this stupid state, but my parents co-signed my lease. I go before the licensing board in current state for an oral interview for a license this month. The way life has treated me, I can imagine them not giving me a license because of being out of clinical work for a few years between the change in specialties. Haven't applied for a DEA but I have nothing strange for me to not get it. Just costs more money that I need scrape by on to live.

After a sleepless night, and more texts from my classmates. I've decided if this state doesn't grant me a license to work in urgent care. Forget the license I hold in another state. I am so fed up with this messed up system I'm over it. Screw making money and paying back my loans. Working in non-clinical stuff, for the rest of my life? Just shove me off a bridge. I've done the non-clinical MD work making good money. I will not sell my soul doing that ever again. If my story blows up in the media then I'll say who I worked for. That whole deal is worth airing out in it's own right.

There is too much suffering happening along the US-Mexican border for me to waste my knowledge/skills going through the ERAS soul eating machine again. I could go to the Mexican side of the border and actually help people. Plenty of hard working people caught in the danger zone, risking their lives to get to our country. While I will never renounce my Texan citizenship, the United States...not so much. They can eat my loans. Alternatively, I will be applying to doctors without borders, but I would really rather help the 3rd world people in our own backyard. I grew up seeing the silent suffering Mexican immigrants have to face. Given what I look like, living alone on the border, I won't last too long; but the idea of going out Breaking Bad style, and telling my story to the U.S. press sounds pretty good right now. Our system is so broken!

 

[clausewitz2]

@ Bashwell, yes in regards to rads, surgery, and anesthesia. I matched 2 of the three. Went on a lot of prelim surgery interviews rather than TY or IM. Thanks to ERAS, applicants have to shell out tons more money and interview for intern spots and advanced pgy2 spots simultaneously. Went thru the ERAS grinder real big for at least 3 seasons. Each round of ERAS I did, flying across the country for 20-35 interviews cost me at least 75K over the years. ERAS itself charges around 2-3K just to rank more than 20 programs. This a huge underestimate, but I'm trying to ward off the bad thoughts of ending my life. My med school loans were decent when I graduated, but now are likely 350K. I stopped keeping track of my total debt bc of all I have lost. At least 20 yrs of my life chasing this dumb ass dream matters more than money.

@Crayola227, you hit the nail on the head
Yes yes yes. So the good PD who chose me, got out of the grist mill to save their own life. The PD replacement told me in August that he/she would have never taken me. There is so much I want to say about specifics but I can't...yet.

I have a license in another state, but signed an expensive lease where I live. Would just bail on this stupid state, but my parents co-signed my lease. I go before the licensing board in current state for an oral interview for a license this month. The way life has treated me, I can imagine them not giving me a license because of being out of clinical work for a few years between the change in specialties. Haven't applied for a DEA but I have nothing strange for me to not get it. Just costs more money that I need scrape by on to live.

After a sleepless night, and more texts from my classmates. I've decided if this state doesn't grant me a license to work in urgent care. Forget the license I hold in another state. I am so fed up with this messed up system I'm over it. Screw making money and paying back my loans. Working in non-clinical stuff, for the rest of my life? Just shove me off a bridge. I've done the non-clinical MD work making good money. I will not sell my soul doing that ever again. If my story blows up in the media then I'll say who I worked for. That whole deal is worth airing out in it's own right.

There is too much suffering happening along the US-Mexican border for me to waste my knowledge/skills going through the ERAS soul eating machine again. I could go to the Mexican side of the border and actually help people. Plenty of hard working people caught in the danger zone, risking their lives to get to our country. While I will never renounce my Texan citizenship, the United States...not so much. They can eat my loans. Alternatively, I will be applying to doctors without borders, but I would really rather help the 3rd world people in our own backyard. I grew up seeing the silent suffering Mexican immigrants have to face. Given what I look like, living alone on the border, I won't last too long; but the idea of going out Breaking Bad style, and telling my story to the U.S. press sounds pretty good right now. Our system is so broken!

Note that you have to pass the Mexican national medical exam to practice in Mexico. In Spanish. If you are not fluent you may want to consider Anglophone options.

MSF (Doctors without Borders) also requires you to complete a residency if you are a US-trained MD.

 

[UnemployedPGY3]

Note that you have to pass the Mexican national medical exam to practice in Mexico. In Spanish. If you are not fluent you may want to consider Anglophone options.

MSF (Doctors without Borders) also requires you to complete a residency if you are a US-trained MD.

Thanks for the info. I called the MSF office regarding my situation (not completing a 5 yr residency) and the rep answered my questions in that it would not be a limiting factor. That I should apply if I met the other requirements. I'm not crazy about going into a violent area of the world, but I'll do it. Looking at the application, the checkbox of "are you willing to work in a politically/physically dangerous area" is a new addition. There is a Dr. from my hometown who does MSF work. He is normally gung-ho about it, returning from missions. My mother saw this Dr. last week on his latest return. She said he looked like he was gaunt and about to die.
Wish me luck with the licensing board this week. I have no idea what to expect during the private oral exam. gulp.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Thanks for the info. I called the MSF office regarding my situation (not completing a 5 yr residency) and the rep answered my questions in that it would not be a limiting factor. That I should apply if I met the other requirements. I'm not crazy about going into a violent area of the world, but I'll do it. Looking at the application, the checkbox of "are you willing to work in a politically/physically dangerous area" is a new addition. There is a Dr. from my hometown who does MSF work. He is normally gung-ho about it, returning from missions. My mother saw this Dr. last week on his latest return. She said he looked like he was gaunt and about to die.
Wish me luck with the licensing board this week. I have no idea what to expect during the private oral exam. gulp.

It's likely to be questions related to your training and end of training.

 

[Crayola227]

I can see now that money is an issue, otherwise in any board dealings I highly recommend getting an attorney that specializes in medical board licensing issues. Be on the defense (but in a professional manner).

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I'm confused here...so it sounds like you were a surgery resident?

Why did you apply to three different specialties across three ERAS seasons?

As usual, just trying to wrap my head around some of this.

 

[Shikima]

Check out job on DOC (Dropout Club). Might be up your alley. I saw one position recently where a company was wanting to employ someone to teach USMLE material.

 

[UnemployedPGY3]

Some new developments have panned out with my situation. I was completely misled and discarded (strongly encouraged to resign) by my anesthesia program. I was only 2ish weeks into the several months long probation I was on. I asked a few attendings on specifics to improve after being put on probation, and their response was usually, "What? why?"
Unexpectedly, after getting improving evals, I was called into a meeting to "resign now, and we will help you find another position". So I did. Now I realize those were just statements to get me to leave prematurely. It was just too frigging soon. My classmates were pretty shocked. Some of them are dealing with suicidal thoughts of their own, and I hope what happened to me doesn't make them feel worse. There have been resident suicides here in past years, it's a legitimate issue.

I know there are other ways to earn a living but they sound like selling my soul to the devil jobs. I poured 20 years of my life into this. Working for some ethically shady job makes me sick. The medical system is so warped and broken, it seems more etihical to work as a stripper, sex worker or make drugs for a Mexican cartel. So upset right now.

When MD applicants apply via the match, the investment is so much that the contract is for 1 yr max, 6 months if you're awful, less if you did something horrific. I only got a little more than 4 months! The PD's only offer of help or condolence was "i'm sorry" and "good luck" via email.

I'm a hardworker and outgoing sociable person. I was involved in student government/greek sororities/co-ed medical fraternities since undergrad. Once I ever obtain job security of some sort, I want to raise public awareness. The ugly underbelly of newer NRMP match commitment legislation (~2013 cycle) have left increasing number of US medical grads with no match, no hope, and ruined financial credit to boot.

 

[j4pac]

Mental health issues in health providers is profoundly underdiagnosed. I'm pretty certain that the majority of us would probably have either criteria for either depression, anxiety, or PTSD if our coping skills weren't so good and our insight wasn't so poor.

Get help.

 

[IlDestriero]

Good luck. Stay angry, it's better than depressed, and more motivating.
I can tell you, and everyone else, there is one thing that will get you fired faster than you can say "WTF just happened" from an anesthesia residency. That is careless lack of attention to detail. I'm not saying that's what happened, but the idea that anesthesia is for the lifestyle driven and lazy is a gross exaggeration. You can make one single drug error, or dose error, and assassinate a patient. Irreversible harm that is done before you even realize it happened. If they picked up on anything like that and thought someone was dangerous, they'd get benched and offered an out before they kill someone. It happens. I know 2 former anesthesia residents from 2 different programs that were let go due to carelessness with meds and poor judgement. Another in my program was on 3rd strike and your out probation for his last 14 months of training.
It's probably time to go with plan B, whatever that is. Maybe you'll have a rewarding career as a "Doc in the box"? I went to an urgent care recently for a minor issue when my PCP wasn't available and the people working there all seemed very happy. You don't need to become a 1%er to have a rich and rewarding life, especially if you're helping others.
Good luck.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Some new developments have panned out with my situation. I was completely misled and discarded by my anesthesia program, after given a measly 2.5 weeks on probation to improve. The GME director of the medical conplex with much boastful-ness said that I was one of the smart ones who resigned, that facility looks favorably on residents who resident, vs the type of residents who are a thorn in their side, and wind up getting terminated. I was let to believe the program would be helpful in voucing for me, to get me into some type of general intern year spot off cycle.
So now I hold a license in this state. I called the GME office in regards to applying for my DEA. They suddenly lost any vibe of wanting to help me. GME director says "you can be a doc in the box, get that job, THEN apply for a DEA license after getting this job. I've been through the ERAS cycle God help me 4 times.GME director suggested, just be a doc in the box, apply on ERAS, get no interviews but you can get something, and like magic I'd get something from SOAP into primary care. No program is gonna take me without some kind of inside help. My parents have supported me jetting around the US for 2 yrs of rads interviews, and 2 yrs of anesthesia interviews. I was a strong applicant. Flew to 20-40 interviews cross country each season. Mom finally said, hey look, faced with ERAS again, you're on you own. You father and I cannot squander the family fortune chasing your doctor dream forever.

I am fully ready to take on the US medical education complex and go full nuclear. As in draw national attention. Maybe contacting Hillary Clinton's office to raise awareness. Like NBC dateline/Today show level news. I'm not sure what organization would back up ppl such as myself. I just started a part time job making pizza for $8/hr.

Some a-whole foreign doctor working athe the childrens hospital nearby was so out of touch my manager had to ask him what toppings he wanted on his pizza at least 3 times. I listened in on the call and we had to completely guess at whatever name the order was under. Literally we made up a name for the ticket with vowels, an N and M. These out of touch Dr's from across the globe are working as physicians. I scored an effing 249 on step 1,went to a us school. Thanks America. Oh and PS my apt is $1500/mo and just found out my "cobra" insurance is near $700 a month. I know there are other ways to earn a living but they sound like selling my soul to the devil jobs. I poured 20 years of my life into this. Working for some ethically shady job makes me sick. The medical system is so warped and broken, it seems more etihical to work as a stripper, sex worker or make drugs for a Mexican cartel. So upset right now.

When MD applicants apply via the match, the investment is so much that the contract is for 1 yr max, 6 months if you're awful, less if you did something horrific. This whole situation leaves me feeling very raped. I have been discarded by the system I devoted my life to. The new PD's only offer of help or condolence was "i'm sorry" and "good luck" via email.

I'm a hardworker, and a popular sociable persons. I was involved in student government/greek sororities/co-ed medical fraternities since undergrad. Anyone who can point me in the direction where this whole ERAS match commitment has ruined good young doctor's lives, we should rise up! I am fed up! email is TXmd2007 at gmail. I am dead serious. This is so so wrong and I want to spread the message to the public. PLEASE HELP!!!

How long were you in your anesthesiology program and did you match the first time?

 

[Crayola227]

Some new developments have panned out with my situation. I was completely misled and discarded by my anesthesia program, after given a measly 2.5 weeks on probation to improve. The GME director of the medical conplex with much boastful-ness said that I was one of the smart ones who resigned, that facility looks favorably on residents who resident, vs the type of residents who are a thorn in their side, and wind up getting terminated. I was let to believe the program would be helpful in voucing for me, to get me into some type of general intern year spot off cycle.
So now I hold a license in this state. I called the GME office in regards to applying for my DEA. They suddenly lost any vibe of wanting to help me. GME director says "you can be a doc in the box, get that job, THEN apply for a DEA license after getting this job. I've been through the ERAS cycle God help me 4 times.GME director suggested, just be a doc in the box, apply on ERAS, get no interviews but you can get something, and like magic I'd get something from SOAP into primary care. No program is gonna take me without some kind of inside help. My parents have supported me jetting around the US for 2 yrs of rads interviews, and 2 yrs of anesthesia interviews. I was a strong applicant. Flew to 20-40 interviews cross country each season. Mom finally said, hey look, faced with ERAS again, you're on you own. You father and I cannot squander the family fortune chasing your doctor dream forever.

I am fully ready to take on the US medical education complex and go full nuclear. As in draw national attention. Maybe contacting Hillary Clinton's office to raise awareness. Like NBC dateline/Today show level news. I'm not sure what organization would back up ppl such as myself. I just started a part time job making pizza for $8/hr.

Some a-whole foreign doctor working athe the childrens hospital nearby was so out of touch my manager had to ask him what toppings he wanted on his pizza at least 3 times. I listened in on the call and we had to completely guess at whatever name the order was under. Literally we made up a name for the ticket with vowels, an N and M. These out of touch Dr's from across the globe are working as physicians. I scored an effing 249 on step 1,went to a us school. Thanks America. Oh and PS my apt is $1500/mo and just found out my "cobra" insurance is near $700 a month. I know there are other ways to earn a living but they sound like selling my soul to the devil jobs. I poured 20 years of my life into this. Working for some ethically shady job makes me sick. The medical system is so warped and broken, it seems more etihical to work as a stripper, sex worker or make drugs for a Mexican cartel. So upset right now.

When MD applicants apply via the match, the investment is so much that the contract is for 1 yr max, 6 months if you're awful, less if you did something horrific. This whole situation leaves me feeling very raped. I have been discarded by the system I devoted my life to. The new PD's only offer of help or condolence was "i'm sorry" and "good luck" via email.

I'm a hardworker, and a popular sociable persons. I was involved in student government/greek sororities/co-ed medical fraternities since undergrad. Anyone who can point me in the direction where this whole ERAS match commitment has ruined good young doctor's lives, we should rise up! I am fed up! email is TXmd2007 at gmail. I am dead serious. This is so so wrong and I want to spread the message to the public. PLEASE HELP!!!

This happens. Not going to say it's common, not going to say we don't have people who don't have it coming to them.

Despite the rarity, even if this happens to only n = > 1 resident per whatever time frame, it's one too many. Children aren't denied leukemia treatment prior authorization and die often but still considered unacceptable. Executing an innocent person isn't common either. Unacceptable outcomes.

This is unacceptable. Something should be done. I don't hold out hope for better, but the statement is made. Words matter however much they matter.

I'm sorry my friend.

 

[UnemployedPGY3]

Good luck. Stay angry, it's better than depressed, and more motivating.
I can tell you, and everyone else, there is one thing that will get you fired faster than you can say "WTF just happened" from an anesthesia residency. That is careless lack of attention to detail. I'm not saying that's what happened, but the idea that anesthesia is for the lifestyle driven and lazy is a gross exaggeration. You can make one single drug error, or dose error, and assassinate a patient. Irreversible harm that is done before you even realize it happened. If they picked up on anything like that and thought someone was dangerous, they'd get benched and offered an out before they kill someone. It happens. I know 2 former anesthesia residents from 2 different programs that were let go due to carelessness with meds and poor judgement. Another in my program was on 3rd strike and your out probation for his last 14 months of training.
It's probably time to go with plan B, whatever that is. Maybe you'll have a rewarding career as a "Doc in the box"? I went to an urgent care recently for a minor issue when my PCP wasn't available and the people working there all seemed very happy. You don't need to become a 1%er to have a rich and rewarding life, especially if you're helping others.
Good luck.

Being a "doc in the box" for a while, or for life doesn't bother me. When I searched for jobs, it appeared that with new healthcare reform, that it wasn't an option. I'm gonna try to keep my head up and see if there's some way I can still be a clinician. Meanwhile I'm going to edit my rant/post to not screw myself further.
Thanks to everyone to the well written private messages. Very sage advice! TY.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Good luck. Stay angry, it's better than depressed, and more motivating.
I can tell you, and everyone else, there is one thing that will get you fired faster than you can say "WTF just happened" from an anesthesia residency. That is careless lack of attention to detail. I'm not saying that's what happened, but the idea that anesthesia is for the lifestyle driven and lazy is a gross exaggeration. You can make one single drug error, or dose error, and assassinate a patient. Irreversible harm that is done before you even realize it happened. If they picked up on anything like that and thought someone was dangerous, they'd get benched and offered an out before they kill someone. It happens. I know 2 former anesthesia residents from 2 different programs that were let go due to carelessness with meds and poor judgement. Another in my program was on 3rd strike and your out probation for his last 14 months of training.
It's probably time to go with plan B, whatever that is. Maybe you'll have a rewarding career as a "Doc in the box"? I went to an urgent care recently for a minor issue when my PCP wasn't available and the people working there all seemed very happy. You don't need to become a 1%er to have a rich and rewarding life, especially if you're helping others.
Good luck.

Sorry for the brief aside. What other medical fields require just as much attention to detail? And which fields are the most tolerant to occasional lapses/errors?
Just curious. I tend to check things like crazy and like to have systems that I follow but would prefer to be in a lower stress specialty.

 

[Crayola227]

from what i understand path and rads are similar in this way

 

[fantasty]

Check out Pamela Wible MD's stuff. She's an advocate for physician suicide and decreased quality of life in the profession.

Agreed - useful stuff.

Also, I'm not just now seeing this thread and have only had a chance to skim the whole situation. But, an idea worth considering... preventive medicine (acpm.org) is a boarded specialty that tends to have high job satisfaction. And, it's very common for people who have found that other specialties were really not good fit to come to PM and realize that they are much more suited to that specialty. Physicians are eligible to apply to residencies if they have completed a PGY1 year. It's relatively late in the cycle for this year, but perhaps worth considering in the future. And the funding source for trainees is generally not out of the same bucket as most (all?) other specialties (CMS), so I don't know that there's as much of an issue about burning through your allotted salary as a resident (which I learned is an issue in most cases when you change training programs).

Like any specialty, there are pros and cons, but unfortunately, preventive medicine isn't even on a lot of people's radar because it doesn't utilize the match (and doesn't get a lot of exposure in medical school, even though they use ERAS).

 

[Apollyon]

Check out Pamela Wible MD's stuff. She's an advocate for physician suicide and decreased quality of life in the profession.

I get your point, but I don't think she advocates FOR those things. Just sayin'.