File Review - Seriously??

Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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thereservoirdog

thereservoirdog

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Sorry I have to vent, but after my file review today I'm just really surprised and disappointed at the main reason I got rejected. Overall, I was an average applicant with scores within the ranges of those accepted.

But apparently the glaring weak point in my application that the file reviewer had was that I had stated that I had in interest in wildlife health, which "doesn't match up to my experiences in that field". All I had done was express an interest in it in my application, but I know how tough it is to get in that field so my main goal was small animal.

But I guess just saying you're interested in something is enough to get your app thrown away. If volunteering at a zoo hospital, a wildlife rehab clinic, and moving to another state for a few months to help out on a disease study wasn't enough to just say you like the idea of wildlife health, then I really don't know what's going through the heads of the admissions team. I'm thinking they only want rich kids whose parents can pay for them to go to Africa.

Again sorry for the vent, but maybe this will warn future applicants to not express an interest in anything other than the exact field they've been working at full time for the past year.
 
I'm sorry your file review was so frustrating! I'm assuming you're talking about Davis, yes?

When I met with the admissions office this past summer as I was preparing my application, they actually specifically advised me to only discuss one clear area of vet med in my PS. Furthermore, they said that the stated area of vet med should match up with the area in which I had the most experience hours.

I just so happen to be most interested in zoo/wildlife medicine, and that was by-far the area in which I had the most vet hours (about 1250 working with moose and zoo vets, vs. ~200 with cows, ~200 with horses, and ~800 with SA).

I guess the next time around, define one area of vet med you want to go into, and make sure that's the one you have the highest number of hours in.

I'm definitely rooting for you for this upcoming cycle!!! And while this is very frustrating news, at least you have a relatively easy fix for next time 😳
 
Man, I'm sorry that really sucks. I thought you were very explicit in your PS about your intent to go into field wildlife work, and backed it up with your experiences.

I think you have to take file reviews with a grain of salt though. Sometimes they can be very helpful in that they'll elucidate what was hindering your application that you didn't know about. But a lot of the time, especially if there was nothing wrong with you as an applicant (average applicant with stats all within accepted range) and the only problem really was that you didn't stand out for some reason to the people reading your app, they just give you anything they could think of in the file review. I guess that's better than not giving you anything at all. I think in these cases, it's not so much as the reviewers telling you that "you didn't get in because of _____" so much as, "there were a handful of outstanding applicants that were shoe-ins, then there were hundreds of others with competitive applications that the adcoms had to choose from for so few spots... and it's really not that there was anything wrong with your application, but if anything, this is the one thing we noticed" kind of thing.

It could have even been as simple as that the application before yours was stellar so that yours didn't seem as good in comparison, whereas that they would've accepted you had the 5 applications before yours been atrocious. It's really hard to say in these cases why you didn't get accepted.

Did you have an interview with this school or were you outright rejected?
 
I'm sorry this happened to you. I guess I should be happy that i wasn't allowed a file review so i wouldnt hear something stupid like that
 
Minnerbelle said:
But a lot of the time, especially if there was nothing wrong with you as an applicant (average applicant with stats all within accepted range) and the only problem really was that you didn't stand out for some reason to the people reading your app, they just give you anything they could think of in the file review. I guess that's better than not giving you anything at all. I think in these cases, it's not so much as the reviewers telling you that "you didn't get in because of _____" so much as, "there were a handful of outstanding applicants that were shoe-ins, then there were hundreds of others with competitive applications that the adcoms had to choose from for so few spots... and it's really not that there was anything wrong with your application, but if anything, this is the one thing we noticed" kind of thing.
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This is pretty much what I was going to say. If you're talking about UCDavis, they take the top 200 or so ISers ranked by stats and another 200 that are classified as "unique" for whatever reason and more closely review those 400-ish for the 225 interview spots. So there are probably plenty of others in your shoes who were average or better than the accepted stats-wise and didn't get in. When it comes down to so little spots for so many competitive applicants, the reasons for differentiating between them might seem nitpicky and stupid, especially to those not accepted. But you have to see it as less of "this is why they think I'm inferior" and more of a suggestion on what might make your application stand out a little more next time amongst all of the competitive applicants.

I for one am glad that they can look beyond stats.
 
That is so lame! I thought vet school was where you are supposed to decide what you want to do! I told adcoms that I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do specifically, but through my experiences I was able to learn things that I DIDN'T want to do. They said that was ok because most people that go into vet school knowing what they want to do end up changing their minds anyway. So who cares if you have experiences backing up your interest! I mean heck...what if you didn't get wildlife experience until right before you filled out your application and there wasn't time to get more experience. I'm so sorry that happened grrr
 
Yeah, that certain school is definitely quite brutal with the file reviews. Mine gave me a confusing response too. But they are just picking out the thing that threw them off a little bit and blowing it up really big at us because we are demanding a reason when really, it's such a subjective, random process. Hopefully we can fit the app to what they want and have better luck next year! :xf:It's all about playing the game..
 
My file review for the school that straight out rejected me was basically "I don't know why you didn't get an interview. If you were to apply again you wouldn't need to change anything, because it all looks really good and competitive. Just go where you got in and be happy about it." I told my roommate about it and he sent me [link edited in below], which made me laugh. But still, was odd. Oh well!

Edited because GDI link wont link in bbcode: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-09/dirty-secrets-of-college-admissions/full/ go there
 
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Sometimes it seems like getting into vet school is like trying to win a poker game against the house--the deck's not stacked in your favor. If this is at all helpful: a friend of mine was all set to apply to vet school (she didn't have exceptional experience or stats--just average) and she had a meeting with her instate vet school to get last minute advice on her app. She was told, much as you were, that her stated area of interest in her ps didn't match her experience. It was suggested that she write her statement about her journey to vet med generally (non specialty specific) and her interest in science (blah blah) and then discuss in her interview the avenue she intended to pursue. She got into 2 schools with this new ps. No clue if that's what made it work out for her but it might be another way to work on your ps without feeling like you have to work 24/7 in a wildlife clinic--since we know they pay so well :laugh:
 
I thought my file review craziness was over, that I would just get the same thing from the last school I was waiting for and be done. But nope, every school (three) I applied to and got rejected from gave me completely contradictory feedback. They all agreed that my GREs were strong and that I would have a good chance of admission if I was in state (for my OOS schools), but aside from that, they have opposite things. Some hate my PS, others love it. One said I had awful eLORs, another said they were really strong. One said my experience was pretty minimal, another said it was a good amount. One didn't like my sGPA, the others said my GPA was about average (for this one, I understand the divergence bc different schools have different ranges they look at)... But for all the rest of the things... aghhh I don't know how to give everyone what they want while it's all on one application!!! I'll keep getting as much experience as I can and work on my PS a lot, but it's so hard to read the minds of each individual school. 😕 major grumble. Anyone else get confusing feedback like this or know how to deal with it in preparation for the next cycle? Thanks!
 
thedogisgreen said:
I thought my file review craziness was over, that I would just get the same thing from the last school I was waiting for and be done. But nope, every school (three) I applied to and got rejected from gave me completely contradictory feedback. They all agreed that my GREs were strong and that I would have a good chance of admission if I was in state (for my OOS schools), but aside from that, they have opposite things. Some hate my PS, others love it. One said I had awful eLORs, another said they were really strong. One said my experience was pretty minimal, another said it was a good amount. One didn't like my sGPA, the others said my GPA was about average (for this one, I understand the divergence bc different schools have different ranges they look at)... But for all the rest of the things... aghhh I don't know how to give everyone what they want while it's all on one application!!! I'll keep getting as much experience as I can and work on my PS a lot, but it's so hard to read the minds of each individual school. 😕 major grumble. Anyone else get confusing feedback like this or know how to deal with it in preparation for the next cycle? Thanks!
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Beyond the randomness of it all I think an important point to remember is that different schools value different things. There are certainly contradictory aspects in the way a number of schools look at things.

In your case I think you really need to pick the school you feel you are best suited for and slant your application to meet their demands. You can't satisfy everyone, but hopefully you can satisfy someone.

Also, by focusing on one's school's view you will have an overall coherence to your application. Sometimes trying to make everything fit right means that as a whole the application lacks direction.

I really think one of the reasons I was relatively successful was I couldn't possibly compete in several areas so I focused the application on my strengths and was honest about what I lacked.

Good Luck.
 
thereservoirdog said:
But apparently the glaring weak point in my application that the file reviewer had was that I had stated that I had in interest in wildlife health, which "doesn't match up to my experiences in that field". All I had done was express an interest in it in my application, but I know how tough it is to get in that field so my main goal was small animal.
.
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Really?? That sucks, I was always under the impression that you didn't need to know/state what field you wanted to go into, especially since it could change once your exposed to the different fields in vet school… I guess I was wrong.
And if you did state it, I didn't know they took it that seriously.
The pre-vet advisor at my school tells students to always state mixed animal or large as their interest, even if it's not!! He's says that will increase your chances of getting in… How true that is, I don't know. But I don't necessarily agree with him.

After reading what everyone have posted, I agree with all of it, there really is no way to make a perfect application for every school.

I wonder what's going to happen to my app when I mention that I like/want to get involved in multiple fields of vet med… haha.

Good luck this up coming application cycle!!
 
rhinocerotidae said:
The pre-vet advisor at my school tells students to always state mixed animal or large as their interest, even if it's not!! He's says that will increase your chances of getting in… How true that is, I don't know. But I don't necessarily agree with him.
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If an applicant has all of his experience in small animal and his only experiences with bovine parts involve the supermarket and adult entertainment shop, stating an interest in large animal is a great way to get his application laughed out the door.
 
rhinocerotidae said:
Really?? That sucks, I was always under the impression that you didn't need to know/state what field you wanted to go into, especially since it could change once your exposed to the different fields in vet school… I guess I was wrong.
And if you did state it, I didn't know they took it that seriously.
The pre-vet advisor at my school tells students to always state mixed animal or large as their interest, even if it's not!! He's says that will increase your chances of getting in… How true that is, I don't know. But I don't necessarily agree with him.
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I was told not to say anything about large animal unless you have a lot of experience with it. Don't you love how much everyone's advice varies??

rhinocerotidae said:
I wonder what's going to happen to my app when I mention that I like/want to get involved in multiple fields of vet med… haha.
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I mentioned multiple areas of interest in my application and no one seemed to have a problem with it. However, they were all sort of related to small animal medicine.
 
nyanko said:
If an applicant has all of his experience in small animal and his only experiences with bovine parts involve the supermarket and adult entertainment shop, stating an interest in large animal is a great way to get his application laughed out the door.
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I completely agree with you Nyanko! But that's the advise he give's us pre-vetters. But this also comes from the guy who tells students you need a 3.7 or higher or theres no hope of getting into vet med. (This advisor applied to vet school multiple times and never got in…I feel he's still a little bitter)

I was told not to say anything about large animal unless you have a lot of experience with it. Don't you love how much everyone's advice varies??
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haha so true. It's seems that people's advice is very similar to their opinion. It's always hard to know what to believe.
 
nyanko said:
If an applicant has all of his experience in small animal and his only experiences with bovine parts involve the supermarket and adult entertainment shop, stating an interest in large animal is a great way to get his application laughed out the door.
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woah woah!!! wait, what section of the adult entertainment shop involves bovine parts!?
 
StartingoverVet said:
In your case I think you really need to pick the school you feel you are best suited for and slant your application to meet their demands. You can't satisfy everyone, but hopefully you can satisfy someone.
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Problem is, my IS is the school that gave the harshest feedback and seemed to dislike me the most. Could be in part due to the style of the person who did my file review, but catering to them would be changing my application around to make it less realistically show who I am and what my goals are. I really like the program there, and it is by far my top choice if I can get in, but it feels like due to the adcoms, I have a better chance at other schools. To do what I want or what may be more realistic.. hm. Though OOS is never very realistic bc it's such a gamble. Not a fan of this game!
 
thedogisgreen said:
Problem is, my IS is the school that gave the harshest feedback and seemed to dislike me the most. Could be in part due to the style of the person who did my file review, but catering to them would be changing my application around to make it less realistically show who I am and what my goals are. I really like the program there, and it is by far my top choice if I can get in, but it feels like due to the adcoms, I have a better chance at other schools. To do what I want or what may be more realistic.. hm. Though OOS is never very realistic bc it's such a gamble. Not a fan of this game!
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Sorry, I'm a little bitter but count your lucky stars that you HAVE an IS 🙁

Continue with your regularly scheduled programming.... 😉
 
Ah. Gotcha. So my PS should say "Working in the adult entertainment industry gave me a great appreciation for large animals and I look forward to seeing some real live ones in vet school.", right?
 
twelvetigers said:
Lol! Just the skin, mind you. Make more sense now?
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oooooooh haha, that makes more sense. i thought it was for some reason a widely known novelty item made out of bovine gonads or something like that 😱.

More ON topic: If you got a mean feedback from your IS for your post-mortem, it may or may not be just a cranky reviewer? maybe what you can do is make whatever improvements you can to your apps, and then set up a meeting if you can before submitting your apps (if your IS has accomodating admissions peeps) and talk to them about it?
 
Minnerbelle said:
oooooooh haha, that makes more sense. i thought it was for some reason a widely known novelty item made out of bovine gonads or something like that 😱.
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So apparently I have a dirtier mind than most, because I was definitely more on the JPeterman track with my thoughts... haha.
 
nyanko said:
Look I don't know what you do with your free time Minnerbelle but I'm not here to judge you...
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that's what the all women's education thing is all about 😛 feminism = i can stop by adult entertainment stores after work every day if i want to, and anyone who judges me is soooooo not progressive. 😀
 
Doesn't everybody?




Stop at the grocery store, I mean?


IIRC, some years ago in Dave Barry's Gift Guide to End All Gift Guides there was a preserved bovine reproductive tract, as well as a bull scrotum purse, so you never know.
 
So I went to my file review today. They told me (as ambigouosly as possible) that, aside from my terrible GPA, I had 'meh' LORs, my personal statement was too focused, and my interview didn't go as well as I felt it had. I must have been a long, long ways from actually getting in. Hmm. Back to square one, or what?
 
TT, what do you mean by "too focused"?
 
twelvetigers said:
So I went to my file review today. They told me (as ambigouosly as possible) that, aside from my terrible GPA, I had 'meh' LORs, my personal statement was too focused, and my interview didn't go as well as I felt it had. I must have been a long, long ways from actually getting in. Hmm. Back to square one, or what?
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That sounds like a frustrating (and depressing) file review. 🙁 Did they give any suggestions on what you can specifically work on? I would think the second degree that you are doing will do good things for your GPA (maybe not cumulative, but last 45 and science perhaps) and might provide opportunity for a strong letter too.

I'm just throwing out ideas here, but since you are in school, might you be able to find a professor to do some research with... which would not only add experience but also provide opportunity for another strong letter?

Not sure what to make of the "too focused" personal statement... seems like others have been given a hard time for not being focused enough!

But chin up (I know, easier said than done)! There are things you can do to have a stronger application this time around! I've never done it, but from others it sounds like career centers at universities will set up mock interviews for you, so that might be a great resource to tap too. I personally am already freaking out about the prospect of getting an interview, and would love a way to practice interviewing more!
 
Minnerbelle said:
oooooooh haha, that makes more sense. i thought it was for some reason a widely known novelty item made out of bovine gonads or something like that 😱.
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Apparently you all don't know the same people I know... I am quite certain I can dig up a website with certain bovine anatomy represented in latex or plastic for solo evening entertainment purposes.

Maybe I know the wrong sort of people...
 
Well, I can't be unfair by saying they weren't nice. They were. In particular, I love te vet that was there - he's good natured and pretty funny too. I just don't take criticism well (especially in large doses) and they gave a whole look-in-the-mirror speech that had ne in the verge of tears... which of course makes my voice go out...

The thing about my PS was because I said I wanted to go into pathology specifically. Someone thought that was too narrow, even though I explained myself in the interview... I think the file review happens before the interview and they can't go back and change scores, so the first impression from the PS does stick. Good to know.

I knew I had less than great eLORs (one last minute sub, and one that later revealed their lack of faith in me during a conversation) so that's fine, I have new plans.

And yeah, I thought my interview went way better than that. I really wish I knew more about what specifically they didn't like - was I too soft? Did I not assert my opinions clearly? Did I have stupid answers?

I'm not super encouraged to start VMCAS this weekend as I had planned, but I suppose I will. I have to throw my whole self in this time, no matter what.

Oh and gone2dogs - my GPA is cemented in place. :d I don't think it will move much. Regardless, I plan to do as well as possible in my micro courses.

The reviewers also said that retaking the GRE would be great if I could improve, and that I might take the bio GRE again too. Bluurrrgh. Busy semester, anyone? $300, too? :meanie:
 
Why is it a bad thing to know what you want to be when you grow up? That just seems silly.
 
VeganSoprano said:
Why is it a bad thing to know what you want to be when you grow up? That just seems silly.
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I got a similar critique the first year I applied - I knew what I wanted to be (mixed practice owner). It was explained to me that most vet schools want you to be open so they can mold you. If you come in not open to other possibilities it is less likely they will convert you to do something else. I agree that it is silly to punish people for being confident in what they want, but adcoms are in control and will so what they want and judge us however they desire.
 
They like phrases like "currently I find myself intrigued by X, but I'm open to the opportunities that will present themselves in veterinary school and I am looking forward to exploring the myriad of possibilities that will be available to me as a student of veterinary medicine." Then go on and explain how your background in X, Y, and Z will aid you in school and with clients and patients in the future.

They also really like to hear about people skills (they loved my mentioning that I am comfortable dealing with awful a-hole clients) and cool things you've gotten to see (and then ask you about in your interview to make sure you didn't just google it). Try and show how well rounded you are, not just how excited you are about one particular thing.
 
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It may be different between schools, or other factors in my application may have kept me afloat, but I was very clear in my interview that zoo medicine was where I wanted to go.

Sure I mentioned that people are exposed to new and unknown things at vet school and therefore change their minds, but I was fairly clear about my focus. When they asked if I had any questions, I asked which professor I should talk to about zoo medicine, if I got in.

Was anyone else sure of "what they wanted to be when they grew up" for their interview?
 
Nechochwen said:
Was anyone else sure of "what they wanted to be when they grew up" for their interview?
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I discussed my research goals at length in my interview, but was able to relate them to multiple applications - genetics methods and techniques are largely applicable across a lot of organisms and populations. 🙂

I didn't even really entertain any other possibilities in my application than doing genetics research though, so I'd say it was pretty focused.
 
nyanko said:
I discussed my research goals at length in my interview, but was able to relate them to multiple applications - genetics methods and techniques are largely applicable across a lot of organisms and populations. 🙂

I didn't even really entertain any other possibilities in my application than doing genetics research though, so I'd say it was pretty focused.
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Hey Nyanko, I'm sure you've had to explain this a thousand times, but why a DVM instead of a PhD?
 
Nechochwen said:
Was anyone else sure of "what they wanted to be when they grew up" for their interview?
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I was very clear in both my personal statement and in my interview that I want to go into lab animal medicine. But I did have a lot of experience in many different fields of vet med... so I'm not sure if that factored in. Plus, there aren't many of us lab animal people, so they may have just liked that I'm interested in it at all.
 
twelvetigers said:
I knew I had less than great eLORs (one last minute sub, and one that later revealed their lack of faith in me during a conversation) so that's fine, I have new plans.
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That's pretty ****ty of that one vet. I mean, if that person knew he/she didn't have faith in you, then he/she should have said so. Or been more ambiguous and said something along the lines of "I don't think I can write you the strongest letter of recommendation".
 
breenie said:
Hey Nyanko, I'm sure you've had to explain this a thousand times, but why a DVM instead of a PhD?
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pretty sure she's doing a DVM/PhD--unless something has changed. But also, I was fairly focused in my application that I wanted to go into ophthalmology. Things were neatly tied together as far as observation hours, LOR's, and research experience to support that. However, I did say something like what quantized mentioned earlier-- "I'm presently interested in X, but..."
 
Ugh, this has added to my stress level haha.

I want to own a mixed animal clinic someday (primarily small animal and equine) I have had and trained horses my whole life, but I can't justify driving 45 minutes a day for a low-paying job to work at a large animal clinic, so I have worked at a small/exotic animal clinic for the last two years. Now I'm all worried about putting my interest in equine medicine in my application :scared:
 
My understanding is that some schools (Davis comes to mind) prefer applicants with focused interest. It's an added challenge because there's one VMCAS and one PS and you often have to find a way to appeal to adcoms who are looking for different things. So I guess that's the lesson: be open to finding new passions, but also be able to talk about what you already know you love.
 
I think it also depends on how you put it as well. Someone who says they will definitely be an owner of ______ type of clinic might sound kind of naive if it kind of just stemmed from the fact that they worked in that setting for a few years and *loved* it (note: this is just a hypothetical example here, not talking about any posters above). And the way they put that might make them come off naive too. If the PS talked about the challenges of being a business owner, and how to make a successful business enterprise out of vet med, it might be one thing. But to say I saw dr. so and so treat mrs. x's sick poodle and i love the type of relationship vets have with their clients - I'm definitely going to own my own clinic one day... is a bit different.

I was very focused on my PS about wanting to pursue shelter med. I had a small paragraph about my research experience, but even that was about how I want to use my knowledge of the scientific method to analyze shelter med. When I went into my interviews, I pretty much only talked about wanting to go into shelter med. At one interview, I talked at length about 2-3 different animal orgs that I was involved in that were nightmare-ish. The interviewer went "and you still want to go into non-profit animal rescue?" And I answered, "yes. I know from those places how orgs SHOULDN'T be run, and I know from other more successful places that it's possible to have a great org, and that's what I want to aim for." The interviewer laughed and said "good, 'cause we can use more good shelter vets"

In another interview, I pretty much went through and gave a presentation about my research as if giving a talk. After I finished, the interviewer was like "wow, you seem so passionate about it. are you sure you want to give all of this up?" And my answer was yes, I still want to pursue shelter med.

I did say in my interviews though, that my biggest concern with shelter med is finances. That with my debt load, along with life circumstances when I finally get my degree, I'm not sure there will be a feasible full time position at a shelter that has the job descriptions I'm looking for. That more likely than not, I'll have to deviate from my career goals for a while, and hopefully I'll still want to pursue it even through that.

But in the end, no one seemed to mind that I was narrow in my interests (even though my ONLY experience is in non-profits and research).

Edit: P.S. TT, I don't think your PS came off as naive at all though... I think with you, it was just a case of OkSU being a jack***
 
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twelvetigers said:
So I went to my file review today. They told me (as ambigouosly as possible) that, aside from my terrible GPA, I had 'meh' LORs, my personal statement was too focused, and my interview didn't go as well as I felt it had. I must have been a long, long ways from actually getting in. Hmm. Back to square one, or what?
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if you had "meh" LORs...ask different people next time.
 
it's so annoying that all of these schools have different opinions. My PS was focused but I also talked about how i got to this point (which included experience from different fields) and I included other "activities" i would be interested in. For example, i mainly talked about how i wanted to be a lab animal vet who also collaborates in research and is on the ACUC committee.

I guess you can't please all schools though. Some seem really against picking a specific field and others like it. who knows what they want!! I guess just make sure to acknowledge all areas of vet med in your PS somehow so they know you are well rounded and have a reason for going into the field you want.
 
Minnerbelle said:
I was very focused on my PS about wanting to pursue shelter med. I had a small paragraph about my research experience, but even that was about how I want to use my knowledge of the scientific method to analyze shelter med. When I went into my interviews, I pretty much only talked about wanting to go into shelter med. At one interview, I talked at length about 2-3 different animal orgs that I was involved in that were nightmare-ish. The interviewer went "and you still want to go into non-profit animal rescue?" And I answered, "yes. I know from those places how orgs SHOULDN'T be run, and I know from other more successful places that it's possible to have a great org, and that's what I want to aim for." The interviewer laughed and said "good, 'cause we can use more good shelter vets"
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I also want to go into shelter med and wrote about it in my PS and while my two OOS schools liked it, my IS (Davis) thought I was too idealistic and not scientific enough about it. I would love to see your personal statement and get some feedback on mine once I get the new one written since we have similar areas of interest. I'm really unsure about how to give Davis what they want while still making all the other schools happy too and trying to read everyone's minds.
 
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