Final NRMP Psychiatry Rank Order Lists

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Psych747

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Guys since now we all have finalized and submitted our ROLs, let's see how we ended up ranking.

1- WashU
2- Duke
3- Tulane
4- UAMS
5- Missouri
6- KUMC
7- Mississippi
8-UConn

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Submitted to me anonymously:

1. University of the Third Age (unspecified campus)
2. Kaweah Delta
3. Duke
 
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The following list is notably idiosyncratic, but I have tried to provide a brief rationale. Applied to 13 programs, got 12 invites, went on 8 interviews.

1 - OHSU: dream city, program that has an emphasis on stuff I am deeply into, I have posted about this before.

2 - UPMC/WPIC: someone called this psychiatric Disneyland, and it did feel a bit like that. Sky's the limit, and my partner and I like Pittsburgh.

3 - Emory: we are big fans of Atlanta, and they have Grady hospital and a solid reputation.

4 - Louisville: a "good enough" city that is familiar and a "strong enough" program. Plus I really liked the PD and kind of want a job with his mix of responsibilities when I grow up.

5 - UNC: loved the program, not as keen on the Triangle, and partner has never been there and did not get an opportunity to visit, so down the list it goes.

6 - Cincinnati: I don't want to do CAP so the program was "meh" for me. Partner knows cincy and dislikes it, so yeah.

7 - Vandy: did not like the culture or focus, Tennessee is too red and Nashville is too Southern for my tastes.

8 - University of Kentucky: safety of safeties
 
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Utah -- Residents were uber-happy. Seemed almost too relaxed in terms of clinical training. Utah was known for some of my research interests, but there's a split coming that may affect that.

What do you mean?
 
1) USC+LAC
2) UCLA-SFV
3) Rush
4) UC Davis
5) MCW
6) Univ. Of Maryland
7) Univ. Of Louisville
8) Pine Rest
9) Univ. Of Kentucky
 
1. Yale- dream program... Everything about it felt like it was written for me.

2. Cornell- kept this at # 2 after a lot of soul searching about where I want to live for 4 years, and where I want to practice. Loved the people and the program, westchester campus looked really great as well.

3. Harvard Longwood- Fantastic residents and faculty- on the fence about Boston- went back and forth with this and Cornell for # 2 and ultimately feel okay about where I put them, but it could have just as easily been flipped. If my parents were younger/healthier and the program wasn't about to change a lot, it would have won easily. A friend told me I was crazy for putting this 3, but I think I have made my peace with it.

4. UW- Seattle- my only west coast program- love the program and the people but very far from home, (but I've lived in Seattle before)- I came back from here and canceled most of my travel intense interviews because I knew I was ranking this highly, and none of them were going to be higher. As is it didn't make the top 3 mainly for distance rather than fit issues.

5. Brown- All day at this program I found myself in my head saying "I love this program but I would I be okay driving every day?" Ultimately the people and the program strengths won out over some great NYC programs, but put it below some others that didn't have this high personal barrier to entry.

6. Sinai- Really loved the residents- had mixed feelings about the faculty and interview day in general. I came in thinking I was going to have this towards the top of my list based on location and was a little shocked at where it ended up ultimately.


7. LIJ- I was very impressed by the new PD and the faculty/facilities. Didn't get a good read on the residents, and it lacks the national reputation of most of my top programs... I really don't want to live in long island long term- Really not a suberb fan, but people seemed very happy here and the new program design seems to be an almost exact copy of yale's rotation schedule.

8. Einstein- People seemed happy here, program has a full academic day every week. Didn't get a huge spark from the people here but it would be okay.

Kept the next few on as safeties and feel a little stressed that I turned down interviews as some more impressive programs further away, but hopefully it won't go that far down the list come march 18.

Jefferson

Beth Israel

Downstate
 
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1) Mount Sinai
2) UTSW
3) UMD
4) USC
5) MUSC
6) LIJ
 
I'm guessing with regard to the impending "split"
While everyone knows "U of U" as one of the top locations in this research area, the majority of that work is actually done at Intermountain Healthcare. Apparently Intermountain and U of U may be less partnered in the future. Won't affect anything related to the clinical training, as I don't think residents rotate there in the first place.
 
1. Cornell
2. Penn
3. Harvard Longwood
4. Yale
5. Mount Sinai
6. Pittsburgh
7. Vanderbilt
8. Emory
9. Hopkins
10. Cleveland Clinic
11 Wash U
12. UVA
13. Maryland
14. Duke
15. UNC
 
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Interested in Community Psychiatry

1. Emory - excellent diversity in clinical sites and patient population, lots of elective time, close to family
2. Mount Sinai - loved the PD and APD, great subsidized housing, reasonable workload, lots of elective time
3. St Lukes Roosevelt - well rounded community program, great subsidized housing
4. San Mateo - really really wanted to put this program first, but unfortunately concerned about crazy cost of living in the Bay Area, plus I really want to live in an urban environment. Would have to face unreasonably long commute times to San Mateo and Santa Clara if I were to try to live in SF.
5. Beth Israel - awesome location. Didn't like the research requirement, and no more subsidized housing as of this year.
6. Einstein - lower due to location
7. NYU - way too chaotic for me, too many rotation sites
 
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1. UPMC FMP @ St. Margaret - I love Pittsburgh and prefer combined training, St. Margaret is located in the school district where I went to high school. Most of my family and many of my best friends live in Pittsburgh. WPIC is the Disneyland of psych, great research opportunities, and I loved everyone I met

2. UPMC FMP @ McKeesport - Still love Pittsburgh, and still prefer combined training. The commute on the FM side is much worse than above based on where I want to live.

3. UPMC categorical - I really do love Pittsburgh and am plenty happy to just do psych as location trumps combined training.

4. Allegheny General - I'm just so enamored with Pittsburgh. Though I prefer a larger academic program, I liked the residents that I met and the faculty seems incredibly supportive. I kind of doubt that I'll fall past this one given that it isn't as highly sought as big name programs, so the rest of my list is probably irrelevant. But who knows, maybe I came off as a big creep on interview day.

5. Iowa IM-Psych - I got the best gut feeling from this program, loved everything about the faculty, residents, and facilities. This is the only place where I interviewed that has both combined training and a med-psych unit. Iowa City seems really nice, it has an awesome beer store, and one of the best breweries in the world is a few hours away. (I'm a big fan of craft beer.)

6. Cleveland Clinic - This was my fourth choice for a long time and I had a lot of mental anguish putting it down this far. CC is just so impressive as a whole and Cleveland is the closest program to Pittsburgh of all programs not in Pittsburgh.

7. MUSC IM-Pysch - Pretty much just as awesome and Iowa, but I didn't get the same gut feeling from it. Also, Charleston is freaking amazing, but my residency dollars won't go nearly as far as they will in Iowa.

8. CAMC/WVU IM-Psych - Closest IM-Psych program to Pittsburgh. Dirt cheap to live there, which is made even better by super cheap campus apartments and houses. I originally had this program much higher as well.

9. Iowa FMP - I didn't get the same gut feeling with the FM side as I did with the IM folks. Still an awesome program.

10. Cincinnati FMP - Love the program, but have personal reasons against Cincinnati.

11. U. Rochester - The only other place that I've interviewed at that has a med-psych unit. Liked just about everything about it, but I liked other places more.

12. WVU - Pretty much same as #11. Liked everything, but they don't have a med-psych unit. PD is really cool.

13. Cincinnati - Again, love the program, maybe not the city.

14. Geisinger - Enjoyed my interview day and had a good feeling leaving, but I just can't trust a program this new to have all of the bugs worked out.
 
1) Harvard South Shore - good balance of everything I want; loved the residents and PD; many friends in Boston; full day didactics and flexible vacation
2) Emory - Grady is cool, lots of research, forensics, atlanta is good in terms of culture and diversity, lower cost of living, easy drive to friends and family; but of the residents seem tired and stressed
3) Montefiore/Einstein - NYC but not overly expensive; solid training opportunities with early forensics exposure; full day didactics; strong psychotherapy; good benefits; very supportive program
4) UCSD - Seems very strong but intense, outstanding benefits, excellent city; No forensics. PD is wonderful but stepping down, resident cohesiveness??? too far from family and friends
5) Miami/Jackson - has everything, exciting city, borderline driving distance from home, strong fellowship matching; lower quantity didactics and controversy made me nervous
6) UVA - solid research opportunities and quality of life, close to eastern seaboard, closer to home and family; I wish the city was larger and that there was a VA.
7) Utah - I loved my interview, but I got cold feet about living in Salt Lake City, people at the program weren't responding to my emails. Shrug.
8) Case Western - great for forensics, decent rep, lower cost of living, can drive home; my interview day disappointed me and there seemed to be less research
9) Mount Sinai - St. Luke's Roosevelt: well rounded clinical experiences, housing in manhattan, PD is a bad ass; not big on forensics or research; ranked this lower for the cost of living and heavy call
10) Louisville - good enough; closest to my family
11) Cincinnati - the culture i perceived was a major turn off; not super into the city; but I moved this one up because it's closer to home and maybe I could get into some transgender health stuff
12) U Mass - really cool forensics and research stuff, but... worcester; smaller program with lots of married couples; not really my scene
13) UK - Lexington is too domestic for me
14) Tulane - Not a fan of living in New Orleans
15) Thomas Jefferson - I felt like one of my interviewers was mocking me for my interest in under-served populations: a bit too into freudian psychoanalysis for me
 
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1. Cornell
2. Penn
3. Harvard Longwood
4. Yale
5. Mount Sinai
6. Pittsburgh
7. Vanderbilt
9. Emory
10. Hopkins
11. Cleveland Clinic
12 Wash U
13. UVA
14. Maryland
15. Duke


What happened to number 8?
 
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1&2 MGH/McLean (Child then General) - Everything I ever wanted, and in Boston (Please Match Gods! Please!)
3&4 Longwood (Research then General) - Less kids because Children's is protective, a little concerned about the split, but still in Boston, and great research in my area
5 Brown - Really impressed on interview day, and amazing fit research and child wise, not thrilled at the idea of the drive but I talked to some residents who have done it, and they made it seem possible, so too good to move lower
6 HSS - People seemed happy, program seemed strong, but not enough child/too limited a population with all VA
7 & 8 Yale (Solnit then General) Great program, would likely have been my #2 if my husband wasn't bound to Boston, but personal factors won out
9 Columbia - Good program, too far away
10 Tufts - Current residents spent a lot of time at pre-interview talking about how they hated research. I was more impressed with the faculty on the interview day, but that was such a big turn-off. Conversations I had on other interviews made me realize that I really want to be in a program where (at least a subset) of my co-residents are also excited about research.
11 Institute of Living/Hartford Hospital - Near my parents, and while the overall research isn't thrilling, there are people doing work in my field, so I know I could make it work.
 
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1 Cambridge Health Alliance
2 Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai
3 NYU School Of Medicine
4 UC San Diego Med Ctr
5 Boston Univ Med Ctr
6 Tufts Medical Center
7 Emory Univ SOM
8 Icahn SOM Beth Israel
9 U Southern California
10 Vanderbilt Univ Med Ctr
11 Jackson Memorial Hosp
 
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My priorities (aside from liking the program itself) were to stay in or near the Midwest, avoid huge cities like the plague, and find a place where my husband will be able to find a job and get his master's degree.

1. Iowa
2. South Dakota
3. Western Michigan
4. (peds program)
5. LSU Baton Rouge
6. Creighton
7. VCU
8. KUMC
9. Illinois at Peoria
10. UCSF Fresno
11. (peds program)
12. KU Wichita
13. Kaweah Delta
14. Central Michigan
 
Brown = #1 since get-go

Dartmouth = if location was not as rural, could've been near the top. they even unexpectedly reached out to me.

Downstate = great set up to become damn good clinician-researchers, brooklyn is solid. But looking to go elsewhere with some more grass/clean air.

Miami = Having Nemeroff's personal mentoring is hard to ignore. Young single guy in miami ain't so bad.

NSLIJ = Up and coming as well, for someone whose NY native it's strong enough reputation and think there is enough resources/flexibility to grow the way you want during residency. Obv, financially it's strong position to be in after graduation. PP isn't an easy thing to set up.

Sinai = Impressed with research and laxity of schedule compared to other manhattan programs, they're on the rise. Don't want them merging with other residencies, definitely think that'd be a drag. They're bit too result/reputation oriented and there are some unhappy folks attending wise.

Umass = again, if worcester wasn't worcester....

UTSW = love the mavericks and the PD/research, just bit too far away. none the less, will be happy to go if they'll have me.
 
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My priorities (aside from liking the program itself) were to stay in or near the Midwest, avoid huge cities like the plague, and find a place where my husband will be able to find a job and get his master's degree.

1. Iowa
2. South Dakota
3. Western Michigan
4. (peds program)
5. LSU Baton Rouge
6. Creighton
7. VCU
8. KUMC
9. Illinois at Peoria
10. UCSF Fresno
11. (peds program)
12. KU Wichita
13. Kaweah Delta
14. Central Michigan

#7 & 10 are great programs might have put a little higher.
 
Any one else willing to sharing their final ROLs.....
 
#7 & 10 are great programs might have put a little higher.

It's fortunate that we're all different people with different personalities and priorities so our ROLs aren't all identical...
 
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It's fortunate that we're all different people with different personalities and priorities so our ROLs aren't all identical...

I totally agree, I ranked some good programs lower on my list based on priorities. Still hoping to match to my #1
 
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I am too for the most part. Really would like my #1 but after that I would be happy with the before mentioned.

No clue if 2nd looks help or if staying in touch with program throughout the season helps. Will see. Really want this location. Otherwise any other program should be ok.
 
Of course I had priorities (i.e getting away from the part of the country I currently live in, finding a program that fit my personality, etc.), but in the end I went with my gut, which hopefully took those metrics into account:

1. CPMC
2. Jeff
3. Tufts
4. Ohio State
5. Emory
6. Wisconsin
7. UMass

15 more days!!
 
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1. MGH/McLean
2. Harvard Longwood
3. Columbia
4. UTSW

Those are the top 4. Honestly I would be happy anywhere on my list. I loved everyone I met on the trail and just feel lucky to be part of such an amazing group of people.

I am just curious what were ur other ranks, maybe I had common interviews?
 
Good luck everyone! Impressive lists!
 
Hey!
I took a look at your list. Nothing else in common. I really wanted to see Wash U and Duke but they didn't give me an interview. No worries. AND best of luck.

It's totally on luck. Got rejections at many other top places and quite a few rejections at very low tier programs. Bizarre process.
 
It's totally on luck. Got rejections at many other top places and quite a few rejections at very low tier programs. Bizarre process.
Process is becoming more bizarre (i.e. random) as programs are inundated with way more good applications than they can reasonably interview. We are stuck guessing for a good number of the applicants when we choose whom to invite for an interview. Just looking at AMGs (I do look at IMGs and interview them. This is just for illustrative purposes), I probably had over 3 times more applicants than I had slots to interview. My impression is that all programs were faced with a similar issue this year. If all we did was interview the best AMGs who applied to us, then there will be a whole lot of unfilled slots this year since the number of "good" AMGs is substantially smaller than the number of positions offered.
 
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Was a real toss up 1 & 2. Both are heavily county, emphasize psychotherapy + integrated care + inter-cultural psychiatry, have PSM fellowships.
I thought I was for sure westward-bound, but I started opening up to other possibilities after completing all interviews.

1. UC Davis
2. Cambridge health alliance: such an intentional education-oriented curriculum, amazingly thoughtful faculty interviewers, very well-related residents
3. UCSD
4. OHSU: it's tough to beat portland & the pacific northwest, diversity of sites (university, VA, community), all fellowships
5. Harbor ucla
6. U Michigan: love the program, but the only thing keeping me is already having been away from home for too long
7. U Utah: residents here were the absolute most down-to-earth and were passionate about psychiatry
8. Wash U: the chair is such a genial and helpful interviewer, seems to be world-class clinical training (in addition to the wealth of research opportunities), just got cold feet about St. Louis (maybe I should've gone on a walk through Forest Park instead of going downtown to the Gateway Arch)
9. UCLA SFV
10. UCI: didn't get a strong sense of what made this curriculum stand out
 
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What I was looking for: Rigorous training, good C/L services (even if there's no fellowship), great therapy training (including psychodynamic) baked into the curriculum, big city, warm > cold, access to mountains/trails/beaches > concrete jungle, ethnically and economically diverse patient and city population
1. BCM - Everything about the program and city screamed diversity. I felt like I fit into the program and city really well. Excellent therapy training, up there with Longwood and ?UCSF on my list. Weather is alright, no geography to speak of unfortunately, and no PM fellowship.

2. UCSF - Great faculty, didn't fit w/ the residents well, and found myself liking the prestige and weather/geography more than the city itself or training aspects of the program. Too much county.

3. Longwood - Great CL, down to earth residents, excellent therapy. Boston isn't one of my favorite cities.

4. UPMC - Would have to go out of the way for good therapy training, disliked that everything was in one building, patients not diverse enough ethnically or socioeconomically. Otherwise, great place.

5.UTSW - Has a lot of what I'm seeking but too laid back for me, and I couldn't do 4 years in Dallas

6. Emory - Therapy seemed underemphasized here, PGY1/2 weren't the happpiest.

7. Vanderbilt - see my reviews

8. Duke - see my reviews

9. UT Houston - Didn't click with anyone, disliked the training sites...I like the city of Houston, I don't like Houston that much.

10. UT Austin - see my reviews

My trail turned out to be a lot of similar programs in cities I would like to live (ATL, Austin, Nashville) but maybe not places I wanted to train because they seemed deficient in some way or another. In retrospect I would probably have done an away rotation somewhere in CA because to give myself a better idea of if I want to live on the West Coast and I would have tried to schedule some of my safety interviews (UT Houston, Austin, Duke) for later because they wound up bumping Michigan and Cornell into January, at which point I was totally burned out and cancelled both of them. Advice to future applicants: DO NOT schedule all of your interviews for the earliest possible dates, try to push safeties later into the cycle to keep open dates for your top programs.

ROL rationale: It really came down to where I thought I'd be happiest and get the most diverse clinical training possible while still preparing me to match at a PM fellowship. I grew up on East Coast, went to college in Houston, and stayed in the south for medschool. Being single and young, UCSF was my #1 choice after interview day but over time I realized I was making too many compromises on things that were important to me (quality of life, saving for retirement, distance from friends/family, etc.) to live in SF as a resident. I love Northern California, the weather, scenery, and outdoorsy stuff is leagues better than Houston, but I'm excited that I could be returning to Houston for 4 more years. I know that if I match at BCM I'm going to make it much harder for me to crack the CA job market if I ever want to move out West.

I was really hung up on UCSF because of its reputation, but when writing down all of my goals for residency and beyond, working in the southeast as a C/L clinician educator was much higher up than having an academic research career. I still ranked UCSF and Longwood over the other southern programs because the latter all seemed to be missing something important and I think I'd have been unhappy choosing a desirable city over a robust program. The only exception was probably UTSW, which I could have put over UPMC had I liked Dallas more than PGH.

The biggest concern I have if I match at BCM is the lack of a PM fellowship there. Since I never wanted to stay at my residency institution for fellowship and the PDs put me in touch with current CL faculty and recent grads that pursued fellowship, I felt pretty reassured. SDN keeps telling me PM fellowships aren't that competitive anyway.
 
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UCI ended up pretty low on my list too (#8). Why did it also drop so far on your list? I got a weird overall vibe from the interviewers and an undeserved sense of pretension from the residents at dinner.
 
I am a naive incoming M1 student with a strong interest in the field of psychiatry. Understanding that psych is not exactly the most difficult speciality to match into, many of you have listed very impressive sounding residency programs. I was wondering in terms of grades, step 1 scores, research etc. what does someone have to do to be competitive for a Longwood, Penn, UCLA, Stanford etc.? A response or PM would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
 
I am a naive incoming M1 student with a strong interest in the field of psychiatry. Understanding that psych is not exactly the most difficult speciality to match into, many of you have listed very impressive sounding residency programs. I was wondering in terms of grades, step 1 scores, research etc. what does someone have to do to be competitive for a Longwood, Penn, UCLA, Stanford etc.? A response or PM would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
It varies. I'd say being average to above-average in terms of grades and steps compared to all of your classmates at most schools will give you a shot at many of the more competitive psych programs. Then, as usual, fudge factors like your institution, research, letters, etc. have some effect. The very top programs in any specialty tend to select very-above-average (compared to everyone) candidates.
 
1. Iowa--stay near family, husband loves job, great opportunities in Intellectual Disabilities w/ new ID unit and plan to expand curriculum
2. Wisconsin--Madison is a great fit, research in my field, strong psychotherapy, had everything I wanted
3. Michigan--great reputation, great facilities, great benefits, another livable family-friendly city
4. Northwestern--very impressed by full-day didactics and development of faculty as teachers, great facilities
5. WashU--great place to develop as an academic physician
6. University of Chicago--not a good fit for me
 
I am a naive incoming M1 student with a strong interest in the field of psychiatry. Understanding that psych is not exactly the most difficult speciality to match into, many of you have listed very impressive sounding residency programs. I was wondering in terms of grades, step 1 scores, research etc. what does someone have to do to be competitive for a Longwood, Penn, UCLA, Stanford etc.? A response or PM would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

So nobody really knows how competitive BWH and BIDMC will be going forward after the program split, likely competitive but not necessarily crazy. I'd say getting an interview is about having at least average Step 1 scores for the specialty and some extracurricular/research/elective interest in the field. Grades, meh. Truly, to sweep the UC's and Stanford and UW, I'd say you need to show pretty strong ties to CA (college/medschool/state of residency/spouse). Academically I am in the top quartile of my medschool class and by Step 1/2 scores likely top 15% (you can stalk my posts for details) but I have limited research and no CA ties so while I got some of the impressive sounding interviews, I didn't get all of them. You'll be in the same boat - notice here that there are folks w/ MGH interviews but not UCSF/UCLA, and vice-versa. Some folks may have only applied to one or the other, many of us did both. This is because of the fudge factors Flowrate mentions above and whatever characteristics the PD/selection committee saw in your application that said you'd be a good fit. It's hard to be somebody who appeals so broadly as to get an invite everywhere..hence the whole "This is really a crap shoot" thing.
 
So nobody really knows how competitive BWH and BIDMC will be going forward after the program split, likely competitive but not necessarily crazy. I'd say getting an interview is about having at least average Step 1 scores for the specialty and some extracurricular/research/elective interest in the field. Grades, meh. Truly, to sweep the UC's and Stanford and UW, I'd say you need to show pretty strong ties to CA (college/medschool/state of residency/spouse). Academically I am in the top quartile of my medschool class and by Step 1/2 scores likely top 15% (you can stalk my posts for details) but I have limited research and no CA ties so while I got some of the impressive sounding interviews, I didn't get all of them. You'll be in the same boat - notice here that there are folks w/ MGH interviews but not UCSF/UCLA, and vice-versa. Some folks may have only applied to one or the other, many of us did both. This is because of the fudge factors Flowrate mentions above and whatever characteristics the PD/selection committee saw in your application that said you'd be a good fit. It's hard to be somebody who appeals so broadly as to get an invite everywhere..hence the whole "This is really a crap shoot" thing.
Thanks to both of you for the info, it certainly helped! What you said about having the right fit, strong ites, and it being a crap shoot makes sense and sounds pretty similiar to applying to medical school in that regard. Assuming one doesn't go to a pass/fail school, out of curiosity what is like an average GPA in medical school? 3.0ish?

I did look at a few other threads and your Step scores seem pretty insane lol. Correct me if I am wrong but the average national step 1 score is ~230 and the average matching score into psychiatry is ~220, so theoretically if I have say a 235ish, some research, decent letters/ECs, ok grades, at a mid-low tier university would I be within striking distance of a top program?
It varies. I'd say being average to above-average in terms of grades and steps compared to all of your classmates at most schools will give you a shot at many of the more competitive psych programs. Then, as usual, fudge factors like your institution, research, letters, etc. have some effect. The very top programs in any specialty tend to select very-above-average (compared to everyone) candidates.
Would either of you say that a publication is essential for some of the top programs or would merely doing some research with no publication be just fine?
 
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