financials of doctor vs. nypd

[Bacchus]

My dad makes 90k/yr and is about to purchase a 5 bedroom home. Yay Arkansas!!

Same up in rural PA where I grew up. We have a 3 BR "Rancher", which now has a completely furnished basement. All in all, the house was about $110,000 before we finished the basement and the basement was probably less than $10,000 since my dad did everything himself. That puts the house cost at ~$120,000. Our house is situated on 4.5 acres of land. When my parents bought the land it cost $32,000. That's less than what you'll pay for a 1/4 acre plot about 30 minutes south of us. All in all, we're looking at $152,000 for a 3BR home and land. We could easily probably sell everything now for $250-300,000. Gotta love the cheapness of the boondocks, hehe.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Perrotfish]

Long hours, shift work: actually the work week is 40hrs/wk. any shift work beyond that is overtime paid at an hourly rate of 1 1/2. the city often tries to hire more new policemen to prevent the veterans from getting too much overtime(effectively doubling their salary). EM is considered a lifestyle specialty and 48hrs/wk is considered too light for EM. Shift work is only when you're on patrol. Move up to detective or some other specialized unit and you may come to work 9-5 in a suit.

Sergeant and Liutenant exams are completely merit based, and anybody can take them after 3yrs with nypd. And trust me if I got 98%ile on mcat, it cant be too hard. not that im a genius or anything. Captain may require a masters degree(they will pay for you to attend georgetown for a year) and possibly connections.

Yes, NYPD requires 90credits of college or military experience. I am sure most premeds would not be deterred by this requirement. Usually a better argument is that this requirement is too lax and therefore you are surrounded by stupid coworkers, pigs, scum.

No, it is a regular nypd cop with 5yrs experience making $90k+overtime. A sergeant with 5yrs is making $110k+overtime.

You got those numbers from their recruiting website. If you believe recruiting websites you're going to LOVE the HPSP scholarship.

Some corrections:

1) The numbers you've cited are all 'top pay', meaning they're assuming that they increase your salary by the most they possibly can every single year. Subtract at least 20K for the real salary (obviously the gap between top pay and reality increases each successive year).

2) Top pay includes equiptment and uniform allowances. Your expected to pay for your own uniforms and maintinance on a significant amount of equiptment. This ain't chump change.

3) Top pay also includes extra pay for working holidays and nights. If you get your 40 hr day shift, your pay goes down even more.

4) Again, there seems to be an assumption that getting past patrolman is easy. 'Just move up to a detective job', as though it were as simple as asking. I don't know how to argue this, other than to tell you that it's not very easy to make that jump.

5) While the NYPD 'requires' 90 credit hours and a 2.0 to even allow them to consider an application, their average matriculant has a drastically better record than that. This is not a job for the uneducated. While it's reasonable for doctors to expect to make more than someone with just a decent college degree, remember that they are supposed to be making a good salary.

6) And, once again, police officers are one of the few groups that have a worse relationship with lawyers than doctors. There is no malpractice insurance for police, yet there is a high rate of lawsuits. Hope you have a law degree, because otherwise your saving might end up going to your lawyer.

BTW, if you really do want this salary struture, join military medicine. It really is pretty similar, right down to the pension (after 20 years in service). Better, really,because they pay you more pretty much all of the way through. You'll be middle class much earlier on, as soon as you hit residency, because the military pays their residents the same way they pay other O-3 officers. Heck, even in medical school the salary (stipend, whatever) isn't that bad. Also if you can figure out why those who have been through it lose money on the HPSP scholarship, you'll understand why being a physician is better, financially, than being a police officer.

Same up in rural PA where I grew up. We have a 3 BR "Rancher", which now has a completely furnished basement. All in all, the house was about $110,000 before we finished the basement and the basement was probably less than $10,000 since my dad did everything himself. That puts the house cost at ~$120,000. Our house is situated on 4.5 acres of land. When my parents bought the land it cost $32,000. That's less than what you'll pay for a 1/4 acre plot about 30 minutes south of us. All in all, we're looking at $152,000 for a 3BR home and land. We could easily probably sell everything now for $250-300,000. Gotta love the cheapness of the boondocks, hehe.

One of the strongest arguments for the finances of family practice. If you're willing to work in the sticks you can live like a king.

 

[deleted74029]

Gotta love the cheapness of the boondocks, hehe.

I agree, can't really imagine myself living in a huge expensive city.

 

[Dr Lyss]

Same up in rural PA where I grew up. We have a 3 BR "Rancher", which now has a completely furnished basement. All in all, the house was about $110,000 before we finished the basement and the basement was probably less than $10,000 since my dad did everything himself. That puts the house cost at ~$120,000. Our house is situated on 4.5 acres of land. When my parents bought the land it cost $32,000. That's less than what you'll pay for a 1/4 acre plot about 30 minutes south of us. All in all, we're looking at $152,000 for a 3BR home and land. We could easily probably sell everything now for $250-300,000. Gotta love the cheapness of the boondocks, hehe.

the cost of living in & near NYC (or any city for that matter) is nothing short of ricdiculous. Around here $100,000 can buy you a two door garage =( sad but true

 

[TheMagicCookie]

My stepfather is a sergeant and a u.s marshall. I've lived with him since I was 2 or 3 years old, and I can easily say that it was nowhere near a lavish lifestyle. My mom is disabled and unable to work, so my dad's income was what supported us. We weren't "poor", but we were most definitely lower middle class. Bills were hard to pay and my brother and i were usually digging though the extra change tin for lunch money. So, while it may be possible for NYPD to earn a large income, it's not the norm throughout the country. My dad works a second job programming computers for the township after his normal hours. He easily work 70-80 hours a week and we still barely get the bills paid. He is a very responsible provider, though and makes sure his family is taken care of, regardless of how much he has to work.

This isn't meant to be a pity party post. I'm just bringing some people back into reality concerning this topic. IMO, I wouldn't want to risk the dangers of my dad's job for the compensation that he receives...it's just not worth it.

 

[Destro96]

I just may have a bit to offer to this thread...

I've been a cop for the past eight years. I am planning to walk away in the fall and go the med school route....

My background is not that of the typical police officer. I joined the department (one very close to NYC, I might add) in the first class after 9/11 with the world at my feet. I had just finished grad school (first in my class), interned at the White House, top 35% of Ivy undergrad.

I can understand how this thread got here--the careers are actually very similar in some ways (and dissimilar in others).

Motivation is one place where they are similar. The only acceptable motivation to get involved in law enforcement is the same one that applies to medicine: you desire a career that gives you an outlet for helping others. The people who join because they got beat up in high school and want to get back at the world (there are quite a few) will never be any good at the job.

I have done the math. Financially, medicine is a loser compared to policing.

Everyone in my academy class on patrol made >$150K in 2007 (in a suburban department—NYPD pays garbage). Plus, we get 12 weeks of time off/yr (vacation, holidays, chart time, etc). Health insurance is the best around and we don’t pay for it. Most importantly, the pension upon retirement at 20 years is 50% of the average of your highest 3 years salary. You would need to save a million dollars cash in a private sector job to generate that in a retirement account.

When you consider that no education is required (you can start at 20 ½ years old with a high school diploma and a mustache), you really see the difference.

In years 1-4, the cop is GETTING PAID—let’s make his average WITH OT $80K/yr. That’s $320K.

The physician is still a student, PAYING $50K/YR (avg w/ living expenses). That’s $200K for med school.

The cop is ahead $520K right off the bat and now at top pay.

Now, the cop has his full earning potential (let’s make it $120K/yr with OT). The physician is making $40K/YR in residency for 3 years. Cop is +$240K more.

At this point, the cop is $760K ahead. The physician not only has to make that up—he has to save enough to balance out the pension that the cop will be receiving 13 years later.

The danger argument also does not hold. Statistically speaking, policing is not in the top ten most dangerous jobs in America. And, as bonvoyage capably pointed out, it is what you make of it. There are TONS of jobs in the police department with little or no chance of running into bad guys. Even on patrol, 90% of the dealings with dangerous thugs is done by 10% of the cops who go look for them.

Although I am fully convinced that I will get hammered financially, I am interviewing right now and am pretty much committed to leaving in the fall. I’ll detail why in another post.

 

[UTnut]

While I'm not a police officer, I've been volunteering for the Peace Officer Memorial Foundation for over 6 years. The POMF's primary role is to honor officers who have died in the line of duty. I don't know how different Texas' numbers are from that of other states, but the majority of officers here die during traffic accidents. Very few suffer fatal gunshot wounds.


Oh, and the total number of fallen officers each year is relatively low. I think last year was somewhere around 30 for the entire state.

Not advocating one way or the other, I thought I would just share information from my experience.

 

[mfrizzo3]

The best thing about all of these physician vs. blah blah blah threads is people assume that life stops after the age of 40. Seriously folks. A good bartender or stripper can make more money than a future physician while they are in schoool/residency/fellowship.

 

[Bacchus]

That one department is an outlier to the majority of the country, Destro96.

I still stand by my word. Even if its a possibility to earn more than a physcian, I would not put myself in a position that I could potentially have my life ended via a gunshot.

 

[mfrizzo3]

Looks like your logic is flawed Bacchus.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9C05E4D71638F93BA25751C1A964948260

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?level=4&id=4793

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/09/20/hospital.shooting.ap/

At least the Police Officers can shoot back.

 

[Bacchus]

All of your articles are at least 5 years old. The first is from 1982.

 

[175961]

That one department is an outlier to the majority of the country, Destro96.

I still stand by my word. Even if its a possibility to earn more than a physcian, I would not put myself in a position that I could potentially have my life ended via a gunshot.

I dont want to sit here and hit heads with you but your argument has some pretty big holes in it. sure there are people out there that hate cops and would love to see one die....but the number of cops that are gunned down out of the blue arent that high. Since 1806 there have been 760 cops in the NYPD that have been killed/died. and yes, 321 have been by gunfire but there have been many other causes of death. the chances that you are going to get shot out of the blue arent that great...especially if you arent part of a department in a major city. for departments in smaller cities those number are WAY lower.
every job has its own risk. you go into construction you might fall off of a building, become a lab technician and you could get stuck with a needle thats carrying a deadly disease, get a job where you have to commute to work you could get killed in an accident on the way or just crossing the street. your life could end by a gunshot by you just walking out of your front door and running into some druggy who needs to get high and wants your wallet.
of course if youre a cop and youre doing a high number of drug busts, high risk warrants and other things of the like you run a higher chance of getting shot. but those are things you dont have to do as a cop, you can choose a different area of the department.

 

[mfrizzo3]

All of your articles are at least 5 years old. The first is from 1982.

So

 

[Bacchus]

I'm not denying that the level of risk is different for different places. I think there has been one murder in my hometown, ever, or atleast that I know about. The job of a police officer there is extremely safe. I'm just saying I would not leave the field of medicine to become a police officer because there is always the possibility of being shot when on patrol. Yes, this could happen to a physician too, but it is usually a risk a physician does not have to think about.

 

[Destro96]

That one department is an outlier to the majority of the country, Destro96.

I still stand by my word. Even if its a possibility to earn more than a physcian, I would not put myself in a position that I could potentially have my life ended via a gunshot.

I can name ten departments in the NY area that pay more than my own. Moreover, I chose an average salary from my department, not the top guy. Top guy was $268K.

There are plenty of areas of the country where the pay is even better when you consider the cost of living.

The dangers of getting shot are very minimal. Your chances as a physician of taking a needle stick (w/ the possibilities of AIDS, Hep B, etc) are probably greater.

Getting hit by a car is the big risk--even still, if you look at the statistics, we are still not in the top ten for most dangerous jobs.

 

[Bacchus]

If well want to live dangerously maybe my calling is being the next star on "Deadliest Catch."

The 50th percentile for police patrollers in my area is ~51,000. My dad makes more than that and he works on an assembly line.

To each his own.

 

[Destro96]

Now you're talking.

Commercial fishing and logging perennially compete for the most dangerous job in America. Pilots tend to be up there, as do construction workers and truck drivers.

As much as Hollywood glorifies it, policing is not as dangerous as the jobs listed above. What danger there is comes primarily from being hit by a car (it nearly happened to me), not from shootings.

Remember momentum (p)=mv

I'll take my chances with a 115 grain bullet (.00745kg) moving 1100 fps over a 2000kg car moving at 88fps any day.

 

[deleted74029]

The best thing about all of these physician vs. blah blah blah threads is people assume that life stops after the age of 40. Seriously folks. A good bartender or stripper can make more money than a future physician while they are in schoool/residency/fellowship.

Yeah that amuses me too, do we just die after we turn 40? For alot of people I know, the late 40s early 50s years are when they really wanted to be well off cause thats when the kids are usually out on there own and you start to enjoy your years again.

 

[TehDoc]

you are comparing people who are in their 40's. why do the old people even need all their money? if i were so rich that i didnt have to work, i would go sailing or mountain climbing. basically do something that doesnt require me to have a beeper, a cellphone, or to get up with an alarm clock. you cant do that if you work full-time even if you own a $10million house. oh and when you're in your 40's it is really lame to go to a nightclub to pick up college girls. especially if you have a wife and kids. so the point is that when person A may earn more money than person B throughout his lifetime, it needs to be consistent at all stages of life. when you are too old to have fun, it just doesnt count.

If your main priority is money so you can experience the nightlife and pickup college girls, by all means immediately drop pre-med and go for your goals.