First negative experience with the industry - how to cope with shadowing/volunteering?

[ivy212]

I was looking for a shadowing/volunteering/paid experience at a dental clinic, so I was thrilled to find an ad looking for a dental assistant, especially that it read “no diploma required, we also welcome people wanting to pursue a career in the field.” I sent my resume and a letter of motivation where I mentioned my plans to become a dentist. 11 minutes later, I received an invitation to an interview. I happily rushed to prepare.

The dentist (and clinic owner) was 23 min late and didn't have a copy of my resume. I've brought 2 copies, so I offered one of mine. He took it, but didn't pay much attention to it. I felt like the things I was repeating after my resume and letter of motivation were new to him. He became hostile and rude when he learned about my plans of becoming a dentist. Let me remind you that both my resume and letter of motivation mentioned them.

A discussion ensued. I was not doing it for the money, so I asked if I could volunteer.
However… the dentist was fine with hiring someone who wanted to become a dental assistant (even without experience) but not at all willing to allow someone who wanted to become a dentist to even volunteer and do the same job for free. After a few more awful minutes, he told me he would have to consult that (letting me volunteer) with his wife (also working at the clinic as a dentist). I was told to email him next week.

The “interview” didn’t get any better after that statement. In my naivety, I thought that a resume with some health-related, non-profit work (as a member of the board) and dental summer school will make me appear responsible, mature and trustworthy. The resume was paired with professional attire and proper behavior. However, the dentist said he had no guarantee I wouldn't "pinch or bite" or “throw acid” at his patients. No, it was not a joke. He was dead serious. I’ve never inquired about his wife’s decision and made a mental note to never make a mistake of visiting that clinic again.

It was my first negative experience with dentistry/members of dental profession. I sure have sent out a fair share of emails asking for shadowing opportunities and a lot of them went unanswered. However, it was the first incident of a dentist (middle-aged) being outwardly hostile to me as a pre-dental person.

Dozens of unanswered emails gave me an idea that being a pre-dental might come with being ignored, but I’ve never expected that it would come with being treated like an annoying beggar and potential criminal.

I’m starting to feel discouraged. I’ve spent a lot more hours trying to get shadowing/volunteering experience than actually doing it. Only two dentists agreed thus far. The first one allowed me to stay at her clinic for a ~1.5 day (result of a conversation in-person, wasn’t pleasant but wasn’t rude either). The second one (an oral and maxillofacial surgeon, contacted via email) was friendlier and more helpful, but also more procedure-oriented and allowed me to shadow only a few different procedures.

I’ve tried shadowing/volunteering in three different countries total, but location doesn’t seem to make that much of a difference except for people having a better idea of what you’re asking for in countries where shadowing is required by dental schools (US, UK). During my summer in London, I emailed 15 different dental clinics asking about shadowing opportunities. I’ve received one reply: “Sorry, we currently do not have any available spots. Hope you will find something suitable.”

Any thoughts/advice?

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[Likkriue]

Sounds like he wanted long term cheap labor and was disappointed you weren't about that. You are just going to have to keep cold calling/emailing.

Eventually you will find someone who is more willing.

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

You will encounter a lot of difficult people in your lifetime. This will not be the first or last time. You will encounter some in the fields and outside the field. For every 100 dentists, there may be 1 that is willing to spend some time with you and allow you to shadow. Keep trying as @Likkriue said with cold calls and emails.

Also, not to excuse the dentist, but look at it from his perspective: You're asking him to invest time and energy into you when you'll end up leaving. It takes a long time to become competent as a dentist (four years of schooling) so to train you as an assistant would take several months.

Other dentists that may only allow you to observe for a short duration may not feel comfortable enough with you and concerned about HIPPA violations.

Some words of encouragement, I know a current D1 that only shadowed for 1 day with 1 dentist. So none of this should necessarily hinder your chances of acceptance with the exception of some schools that have more stringent requirements.

 

[deleted740991]

One of the big realities today for new pre-dents is that working as a dental assistant with on-the-job training is harder and harder to achieve - HIPAA regulations for observation and overall dentist perception of having extra individuals lean over a patient's chair is making dentists more hesitant to allow non-certified people to participate. I still don't know how my peers landed assisting and specialty assisting jobs with no prior assisting experience, when I was here making hundreds of calls and emails to dentists with radio silence for an opportunity.

In terms of dental assisting, I think it's absolutely foolish that students with a B.S. (hell, even an M.S. or PhD! yes, it happens) have to beg and plead to dentists to hire them as dental assistants to train them on-the-job, especially if you've had good observational exposure and generally know what's going on. Dental assisting is a 2 year A.S. degree that is extremely rudimentary to finish, and it blows my mind that a dentist wouldn't prefer to hire a college undergrad/graduate student who is *generally* more dedicated with a greater worth ethic, foundational science background, and drive to learn compared to a normal DA - all for less money, mind you.

In my book, if you're smart, you're dedicated, and you're willing to be a good employee, and you're willing to take less money? I'm willing to train you.

And yes, if you haven't realized it yet, pre-meds and pre-dents have to bend over backwards for doctors and dentists who frequently treat you like you're totally irrelevant, dumb, and unqualified - they avoid all sense of transparency about whether they can have you aboard shadowing/working with them, because they don't want to deal with you. And it's sickening to know that there are many healthcare professionals who act so bitter about you trying to emulate what they achieve that they shut you out, show up late to an interview, or don't even answer your calls or emails.

It's really poisonous in this field, and I hope the next generation of dentists remember how they felt when a young pre-dent wants to learn from them.

 

[Dr5paceman]

I had an eerily similar experience and did make the mistake of returning one more time. Some people are just unprofessional and have issues, I hope this experience doesn't discourage you too much.

 

[predental21250]

Try seeing if you can shadow a friend's dentist. That is where my first opportunity came from. That way I knew that the individual was a friendly dentist, and he already knew about my intentions. The second shadowing opportunity I had came from me knowing the dental hygienist there, also a great experience. My last and current experience, where i've been assisting for almost 2 years, also came from someone that I knew that quitting and I would be replacing them.

Key is, it's about who you know. Ask on facebook, or ask friends, family, whoever if they can ask their dentists for you.

Not sure why you have such a jerk, but good luck

 

[super frank]

Your school may have a predental club that already has a system in place for setting interested students up with practitioners. As for your recent experience, put yourself in the shoes of the dentist. Most dentists won't want to train someone for a year and then have you leave, especially if they don't know you. My mentor offered to hire me as a DA for a six month period leading into dental school; there is no way a dentist I called up cold would agree to that.

 

[setdoc7]

Try a hospital dental clinic. Most hospitals have a volunteer office. They may be able to place you in the hospital's dental center (if there is one). Generally you will need some patient based training, HIPPA compliancy, and a physical. Once your in, it could be a good fit as hospitals are generally understaffed, teaching centers and welcome motivated help.

 

[MickeyMouse45]

dont be discouraged. I called around 40-60 dental clinics asking for shadowing opportunity. after hearing No from all of them, I gave up on my dream to apply for dental school. Somehow one out of 60 clinics called and agreed to let me shadow. The dentist was so strict. I had to come to clinic at sharp 7:00am and leave exactly at 8:00 pm over winter break. it was torturing esp as i was working for free.
Lesson is don't lose hope. keep trying. u will find 1 dentist who would agree.

 

[romoxx23]

Dentalmaverick.com has some cool student free videos. I think the most important thing is your perspective on everything. Keep on working and looking, and you will find someone to help you out.

 

[577455]

I've met a few difficult dentists while I was shadowing too. I just accepted that I can't please everyone. While you are shadowing, try asking if they know any other dentists or specialists that they would I recommend you shadow. This can act like a chain reaction allowing you to shadow multiple people from their recommendations. One dentist I shadowed wasn't very pleasant to be around, but I befriended his staff and they gave me a list of the specialists they refer to. When I call the specialists I made to sure to know that "Dr. XXX's office suggested I observe here to increase my dental experience". They don't want to lose referrals so basically all the specialists allowed me to come in. I also emailed local FQHCs and free dental clinics. Eventually one of the dentists that allowed me to volunteer became my mentor and agreed to hire me as a DA, she also wrote me a LOR. You just need that one dentist who will give you a chance. This is one of many hoops you go through. Keep grinding.

 

[kidsaremypassion]

I agree with the above poster who outlined that HIPAA and all the other regulations seem to give most docs pause when it comes to taking on an interested student.
On the other hand, some docs just seem to not want to be bothered. That's fine. You just keep calling till you find that one Doc willing to take you on.
When I was in undergrad, I shadowed two GPS who were sisters in their family practice. They were nice enough to return my call and invite me to shadow throughout the semester. They even introduced me to an Endo specialist friend of theirs in the area.
When I moved home, I had a slightly different experience. My sister's orthodontist welcomed me with open arms, but various other specialists throughout the city told me "No."
It happens. I noticed that the older, more established Docs were more willing to have me shadow and teach me a thing or two.
Don't be discouraged. Keep trying!

 

[toothdoctor123]

There are 150,000 dentists in the US. If (let's generously say) 95% of dentists were normal, nice people, there would also be 7,500 complete assh0les in practice. That's a lot of assh0les.

@ivy212 , you're less likely to be successful if you're just emailing random dentists. You should call their offices and ask to meet them for a few mins. You already Googled them, so you can say that you heard about them, admire them for xyz, and have a few questions about their careers. They might respond by offering a shadowing opportunity right away, or you will meet them to ask for an assisting opportunity in person. And instead of asking dentists you don't know, ask the OMFS you're shadowing to recommend dentists from whom he/she gets referrals.

Personally, I think mentorship should be considered a basic professional responsibility for any dentist. But at the same time, you can't blame anyone for exercising their right to say "no."

 

[setdoc7]

Mentorship is definitely not a responsibility, or there would not be a DS faculty crisis. With that said, it is probably a good idea to reach out to dentists who have an established record of dental education experience, as they are more comfortable with teaching. Also, keep in mind that entering someone's office comes with many factors that you do not really think about. You are not an employee, yet you are also not a patient. If something happens, you would not be covered under workers compensation or malpractice, yet you may be injured none the less (needle stick, etc.) Office liability insurance can be tricky, and may not cover. And you yourself can be a liability. Recent TB test? Flu shot? Tetanus? All required of anyone (volunteer included) working in a hospital. And HIV testing is included. Just saying....private practice can be tricky.
And the patient privacy issue is another set of rules, as well as cultural competency, sexual harassment, and anger management.
Hospitals provide this to volunteers. Private practice not so much.

 

[Greyangel6]

I got to shadow through my friend's dentist. Later on, he agreed to mentor me as I'm also going to the same dental school he did. First thing he told me before I started shadowing was to get him certification of my immunization. And before he introduced me to patients, he would ask the patients whether they would mind having an aspiring dental student shadowing him. Most patients didn't mind. Some patients said they're not used to it so my mentor told me to go clean the chairs/break down the operatory/set up operatory and helped around the lab, or just shadow hygiene instead.

I tried not to ask questions during the procedure. I usually asked questions in between appointments, during breaks or after closing hours. I kept a small notebook and wrote some notes as I went along.

I know I made this experience sounds so easy BUT I only found this dentist after many many calls and emails, and I even walked into some of the private practices asking if they'd let me shadow. If you know anything about Orlando, there's a dentist office every other block. But almost all of them did not let me shadow. I know it can be a frustrating experience but keep looking, you will find something! And later on, you will at least have some stories to tell about it ^^

 

[zomf]

I was looking for a shadowing/volunteering/paid experience at a dental clinic, so I was thrilled to find an ad looking for a dental assistant, especially that it read “no diploma required, we also welcome people wanting to pursue a career in the field.” I sent my resume and a letter of motivation where I mentioned my plans to become a dentist. 11 minutes later, I received an invitation to an interview. I happily rushed to prepare.

The dentist (and clinic owner) was 23 min late and didn't have a copy of my resume. I've brought 2 copies, so I offered one of mine. He took it, but didn't pay much attention to it. I felt like the things I was repeating after my resume and letter of motivation were new to him. He became hostile and rude when he learned about my plans of becoming a dentist. Let me remind you that both my resume and letter of motivation mentioned them.

A discussion ensued. I was not doing it for the money, so I asked if I could volunteer.
However… the dentist was fine with hiring someone who wanted to become a dental assistant (even without experience) but not at all willing to allow someone who wanted to become a dentist to even volunteer and do the same job for free. After a few more awful minutes, he told me he would have to consult that (letting me volunteer) with his wife (also working at the clinic as a dentist). I was told to email him next week.

The “interview” didn’t get any better after that statement. In my naivety, I thought that a resume with some health-related, non-profit work (as a member of the board) and dental summer school will make me appear responsible, mature and trustworthy. The resume was paired with professional attire and proper behavior. However, the dentist said he had no guarantee I wouldn't "pinch or bite" or “throw acid” at his patients. No, it was not a joke. He was dead serious. I’ve never inquired about his wife’s decision and made a mental note to never make a mistake of visiting that clinic again.

It was my first negative experience with dentistry/members of dental profession. I sure have sent out a fair share of emails asking for shadowing opportunities and a lot of them went unanswered. However, it was the first incident of a dentist (middle-aged) being outwardly hostile to me as a pre-dental person.

Dozens of unanswered emails gave me an idea that being a pre-dental might come with being ignored, but I’ve never expected that it would come with being treated like an annoying beggar and potential criminal.

I’m starting to feel discouraged. I’ve spent a lot more hours trying to get shadowing/volunteering experience than actually doing it. Only two dentists agreed thus far. The first one allowed me to stay at her clinic for a ~1.5 day (result of a conversation in-person, wasn’t pleasant but wasn’t rude either). The second one (an oral and maxillofacial surgeon, contacted via email) was friendlier and more helpful, but also more procedure-oriented and allowed me to shadow only a few different procedures.

I’ve tried shadowing/volunteering in three different countries total, but location doesn’t seem to make that much of a difference except for people having a better idea of what you’re asking for in countries where shadowing is required by dental schools (US, UK). During my summer in London, I emailed 15 different dental clinics asking about shadowing opportunities. I’ve received one reply: “Sorry, we currently do not have any available spots. Hope you will find something suitable.”

Any thoughts/advice?

I just posted in a similar thread loosely regarding assistants versus aspiring dentists similar to this.

I was lucky enough to get picked up by my nonprofit as an assistant with zero prior dental experience. I was livescanned, but it made sense to me because my actions with patients in clinic reflect the entire image of the organization. I kid you not, I've heard some UC-graduate shadows say the most ridiculous things in front of patients.
"Is that supposed to be bleeding????"
"Hypochlorite... oh that's Clorox, right???"

Bear in mind that most private practice owners were at one point $300k+ in debt, and if an assistant said or did something (like literally splashing etch in somebody's face) that jeopardized the practice's image, they take the heat and lose business. Yelp and reviews are everything, man, and I wouldn't take offense by any provider's hesitance because chances are he's seen some really stupid **** happen before. What's even worse IMO is when new assistants give blatantly wrong treatment advice ughhhhhhhhhh.

Regarding telling practice managers your long-term goal of becoming a dentist... I mean at least you're honest about it. I've worked with some retired providers that worked with the same assisting staff for over 20 years, and obviously long-term commitment is what practices are looking for. As I said in my other post, I didn't work at the practice for long, but even in the short-term you'll learn that being a dentist and being an assistant are two completely different jobs. Just remember your endgame.

Finding consistent shadowing hours sucks. I hope you find something that works out amigo.

 

[ivy212]

Bear in mind that most private practice owners were at one point $300k+ in debt, and if an assistant said or did something (like literally splashing etch in somebody's face) that jeopardized the practice's image, they take the heat and lose business. Yelp and reviews are everything, man, and I wouldn't take offense by any provider's hesitance because chances are he's seen some really stupid **** happen before.

Sure, accidents happen. However, pinching and especially BITING patients would require a somewhat more deliberate approach. One of the main points of my story was that the dentist implied I might be a person who deliberately enjoys harming people and would use his patients to indulge in that. Hence my remark about being treated like a potential criminal while looking for shadowing/volunteering experiences.

Your post, esp. statements like

I kid you not, I've heard some UC-graduate shadows say the most ridiculous things in front of patients.
"Is that supposed to be bleeding????"
"Hypochlorite... oh that's Clorox, right???"

perfectly illustrates what's been said earlier (by @thebign1989 ) about pre-medical and pre-dental individuals being treated like they're

totally irrelevant, dumb, and unqualified

Sure, you will always find some slightly less professional individuals in every professional and pre-professional group. However, I don't think it's a good idea to use their actions to measure the capabilities of the whole group.

 

[blablabla1]

Sure, accidents happen. However, pinching and especially BITING patients would require a somewhat more deliberate approach. One of the main points of my story was that the dentist implied I might be a person who deliberately enjoys harming people and would use his patients to indulge in that. Hence my remark about being treated like a potential criminal while looking for shadowing/volunteering experiences.

Your post, esp. statements like perfectly illustrates what's been said earlier (by @thebign1989 ) about pre-medical and pre-dental individuals being treated like they're Sure, you will always find some slightly less professional individuals in every professional and pre-professional group. However, I don't think it's a good idea to use their actions to measure the capabilities of the whole group.

Yes, the dentist could've obviously been more tactful with you and not said those things, but I think in the end a lot of dentists are looking for assistants for the long term and you can't blame them for that.

 

[Μοlar Βear]

I hate to say this.. but dentists want long term assistants. PM me and I can tell you my route, as I worked as a DA for 300 plus hours