First year of Med school seemed easy...

[medhearter]

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[Jack is Back]

Hmm.

I think if your doing good then it's better to just say, "I'm doing alright" instead of talking about how easy it is. And I guess it depends if you are ranked #1 in your class and shooting for 240+ on boards or not. If you're doing all that and "it's easy" then hats off.

 

[cowme]

Hi Everyone,

So I'm somewhat worried about whether this will continue.
Yes most of my classmates seemed to be chronically complaining about how medical school was ruining their life, but I found myself really enjoying my first year... I'd go out pretty much 3x/wk. I'd sleep a good 6-9 hours a night. I was dating, visiting family, travelling to see friends. The studying wasn't really that complicated. It was a lot of review from material from undergrad, and the new topics were pretty interesting. The clinical exposure was super engaging and even the case based learning was enjoyable. The fact that we don't have to write papers brought my stress level down from undergrad to almost zero.
Multiple-choice exams? Are you kidding me, bring them on.

My question is, will second year be a huge change?

2nd year you'll start going out 1-2x/wk. You will sleep 5-8 hrs a night. You will date, visit family, and travel, just less.

3rd year you will go out 0-1x/wk. You will sleep 4-7 hrs a night. You will not date, not visit family and not travel.

4th year you will go out 3-4x/wk. You will sleep 10-12 hrs a night. You will date, visit family and travel to a greater extent than you ever knew possible.

 

[UAAWolf]

Hi Everyone,

So I'm somewhat worried about whether this will continue.
Yes most of my classmates seemed to be chronically complaining about how medical school was ruining their life, but I found myself really enjoying my first year... I'd go out pretty much 3x/wk. I'd sleep a good 6-9 hours a night. I was dating, visiting family, travelling to see friends. The studying wasn't really that complicated. It was a lot of review from material from undergrad, and the new topics were pretty interesting. The clinical exposure was super engaging and even the case based learning was enjoyable. The fact that we don't have to write papers brought my stress level down from undergrad to almost zero.
Multiple-choice exams? Are you kidding me, bring them on.

My question is, will second year be a huge change? Our school will have NBME exams. I'm going to be working as a tutor, as I figured I should be able to put in the time. But what do you guys think? I already have access to kaplan online resources and have been going through them as we've been studying first year material and have started looking at qbanks already (i'm a bit of a simultaneous learner, as opposed to a sequential learner). Do you think that it is doable? Will I be able to continue to sleep enough and go out and visit friends/family? How much of a change is second year compared to first? Will following kaplan online resources be a huge help? How are NBME exams compared to regular-ol multiple choice exams administrated in-house?

Up until now I've been honoring all my courses, and I suppose I'm planning on trying to do the same in second year. In terms of USMLE Step 1 goals, I guess I'd like to aim for 250+. How doable is all of this with the lifestyle I've become used to as a result of first year?

Strong bragging thread. If you think its easy good for you, you get a gold star. If you wanna do good on step 1 then study your ass off and don't get confident because it doesn't matter if you're beating your classmates now.

And no offense, but the Avg MCAT for Howard is like 24 dude- just remember to not get overconfident just cause you're a big fish in a little pond. There was a study at my school and it showed ZERO correlation between grades and step 1. We had kids who honored everything getting less than nat'l avg...and vice versa.

Sorry for the rant I just get pissed at these kind of threads lol

 

[UAAWolf]

2nd year you'll start going out 1-2x/wk. You will sleep 5-8 hrs a night. You will date, visit family, and travel, just less.

3rd year you will go out 0-1x/wk. You will sleep 4-7 hrs a night. You will not date, not visit family and not travel.

4th year you will go out 3-4x/wk. You will sleep 10-12 hrs a night. You will date, visit family and travel to a greater extent than you ever knew possible.

Nah dude OP is a genius and knows it all. OP is smarter than everyone and can go out 7x a week and score 270 on USMLE and match into derm @ harvard since first year was so easy for them

 

[medhearter]

2nd year you'll start going out 1-2x/wk. You will sleep 5-8 hrs a night. You will date, visit family, and travel, just less.

3rd year you will go out 0-1x/wk. You will sleep 4-7 hrs a night. You will not date, not visit family and not travel.

4th year you will go out 3-4x/wk. You will sleep 10-12 hrs a night. You will date, visit family and travel to a greater extent than you ever knew possible.

thank you for your response. =]

i guess i'd also like to hear back from people who thought first year was easy as well. and maybe second year hit them like a big surprise?

the thing is that a very similar thing happened to me in undergrad. i thought my first year was easy and a review, but then second year hit me hard because i had lost a lot of work ethic. i'm determined to not let that happen in med school, but i'm wondering if anyone had a similar experience

 

[DoctwoB]

There was a study at my school and it showed ZERO correlation between grades and step 1. We had kids who honored everything getting less than nat'l avg...and vice versa.

Interesting. From what I saw at other schools that published data (A&M I think?), there was a very strong correlation between grades in the first two years and step 1 scores. Obviously there are confounding factors though, and correlation != causation. Does your schools curriculum not match well with the boards?

 

[medhearter]

Strong bragging thread. If you think its easy good for you, you get a gold star. If you wanna do good on step 1 then study your ass off and don't get confident because it doesn't matter if you're beating your classmates now.

And no offense, but the Avg MCAT for Howard is like 24 dude- just remember to not get overconfident just cause you're a big fish in a little pond. There was a study at my school and it showed ZERO correlation between grades and step 1. We had kids who honored everything getting less than nat'l avg...and vice versa.

Sorry for the rant I just get pissed at these kind of threads lol

actually, for class of 2014, average MCAT score was 30

 

[2012mdc]

Strong bragging thread. If you think its easy good for you, you get a gold star. If you wanna do good on step 1 then study your ass off and don't get confident because it doesn't matter if you're beating your classmates now.

And no offense, but the Avg MCAT for Howard is like 24 dude- just remember to not get overconfident just cause you're a big fish in a little pond. There was a study at my school and it showed ZERO correlation between grades and step 1. We had kids who honored everything getting less than nat'l avg...and vice versa.

Sorry for the rant I just get pissed at these kind of threads lol

There's nothing wrong with being a big fish in a little pond as long as you can handle yourself in the bigger pond. I'm in a pond even smaller than Howard and my numbers are competitive with anyone's

OP, have you taken any shelf exams for any 1st year subjects? During 1st year I worried my that some of my success was due to "big fish in little pond" but I cracked 90+ percentile on most of the shelf exams 1st year and was relieved.

1st year is a lot easier than 2nd time wise. I went out 2-3x as well.

1st half of 2nd year I cut it down to once or twice a week and 2nd half of 2nd year (even moreso after Feb) I cut it down to once a month or less.

2nd year is a grind and if classes are still easy for you 2nd year then just put more time in doing board stuff. Remember nothing is guaranteed (I know people who scored 20 or 30 pts less on Step 1 than their practice tests)

Strong work so far but the biggest mistake people make about 2nd year is assuming that doing what they did 1st year during 2nd year will yield the same results. Don't become a monk or anything but be prepared to step it up in a big way 2nd year.

Good luck

 

[UAAWolf]

actually, for class of 2014, average MCAT score was 30

That's a big jump- good for them. Website still says a score of 22 is competitive though? And I'm not bashing your school, theres idiots at Harvard and geniuses in the Carib

Anyways thats besides my point- I was simply saying that if it seems easy for you, it doesn't matter- this just means you have huge potential and should work even harder. Hold yourself to a high standard and reach your potential...what other people in your class are doing/scoring is meaningless IMO.

Go for 100% effort and don't be confident- at the same time don't become too hard on yourself, but if you truly feel like medical school is too easy you need to be doing more stuff to challenge yourself imo

 

[doc2beIRELAND]

I thought first year wasn't that bad - in retrospect, and only because I am surprised i am still alive. I still remember the nights when I would just burst out crying for no reason! But they were (thankfully) the exception - I did manage 1-2 nights of good partying per week but definitely worked harder at school than anything I have ever done in my life. I think you might be too quick to say how easy it was looking back; remember all that study you did during the year (didn't you? come on... you know you did...)

 

[medhearter]

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[swamprat]

Yeah first year def sucked and I remember being miserable and thinking I'd rather shoot myself than ever repeating first year. Now being over a month out it doesn't seem as bad.. but still boring as hell. I'm looking forward to second year for the more relevant material and just to take another step forward towards becoming a doc.. this summer is great.. but I finally have hit the point of boredom and wouldn't mind starting up after the July 4th weekend if that meant we can get the rest of our vaca time after boards before ms3.

 

[Guillemot]

I bet the op thinks that the average MCAT for a student at howard is 30 because the MSAR says that the median accepted applicant had a 30. Prove me wrong.

 

[Brasco888]

I bet the op thinks that the average MCAT for a student at howard is 30 because the MSAR says that the median accepted applicant had a 30. Prove me wrong.

Even if you're right, what's your point exactly?

 

[Guillemot]

Even if you're right, what's your point exactly?

My point would be that the op was wrong.

 

[WeekendWarrior]

Just curious OP, you said first year was easy yet you only did "alright" in your classes? I guess when I consider something easy, I generally ace it no problem. Sounds like it was easy because you passed and could still get your kicks? Hmmm...

 

[UAAWolf]

Interesting. From what I saw at other schools that published data (A&M I think?), there was a very strong correlation between grades in the first two years and step 1 scores. Obviously there are confounding factors though, and correlation != causation. Does your schools curriculum not match well with the boards?

It IS interesting and completely ridiculous it doesn't correlate. They told us they do not teach towards the boards at all...and even went as far as saying "We don't believe in what those other schools do and just teach you to pass a national test"...I found that to be pretty arrogant. My school is a top 10 and BIG on family practice, so maybe they want us to get locked into FM/Primary care.

All I know is a lot of classes did not base honors on grades, rather were based on essays or weird projects and stuff that was low yield and very time consuming. they JUST got rid of preclinical honors.

 

[UAAWolf]

Yeah first year def sucked and I remember being miserable and thinking I'd rather shoot myself than ever repeating first year. Now being over a month out it doesn't seem as bad.. but still boring as hell. I'm looking forward to second year for the more relevant material and just to take another step forward towards becoming a doc.. this summer is great.. but I finally have hit the point of boredom and wouldn't mind starting up after the July 4th weekend if that meant we can get the rest of our vaca time after boards before ms3.

Dude first year was brutal purely from the rote memorization of useless facts...I feel ya on that. The only classes I loved were micro/biochem/immuno. Rest was pretty much low yield...I even hated anatomy because the tests were 0% clinical and all weird spatial questions. Kids who memorized netters did great but couldn't tell you a single path condition.

HOW do you finish anatomy without even knowing what meckels diverticulum is? Absolutely ridiculous...thats why I read **** on my own lol. Blue boxes in Moores all the way

 

[2012mdc]

It IS interesting and completely ridiculous it doesn't correlate. They told us they do not teach towards the boards at all...and even went as far as saying "We don't believe in what those other schools do and just teach you to pass a national test"...I found that to be pretty arrogant. My school is a top 10 and BIG on family practice, so maybe they want us to get locked into FM/Primary care.

All I know is a lot of classes did not base honors on grades, rather were based on essays or weird projects and stuff that was low yield and very time consuming. they JUST got rid of preclinical honors.

My school is huge on PC as well but they teach pretty well to the boards and the correlation between GPA and Step 1 score was something like 0.7. Granted it's nowhere near the top 10.

 

[UAAWolf]

My school is huge on PC as well but they teach pretty well to the boards and the correlation between GPA and Step 1 score was something like 0.7. Granted it's nowhere near the top 10.

Meh dude rankings mean nothing except maybe getting hooked up into certain residencies. I'd much rather be like you with a 260 than be at a top 10 and get like a 210 lol. Sometimes I feel like my school thinks they're too good to teach towards boards and just do their own thing. Oh well, nothing a little studying can't fix

 

[Guillemot]

My school is huge on PC as well but they teach pretty well to the boards and the correlation between GPA and Step 1 score was something like 0.7. Granted it's nowhere near the top 10.

Thats a pretty good correlation. Im guessing the grades at my school do not correlate nearly as well to step 1 scores for reasons including: lack of administration bragging about it, test format, archaic curriculum, other stuff that will go unnamed.

 

[UAAWolf]

Thats a pretty good correlation. Im guessing the grades at my school do not correlate nearly as well to step 1 scores for reasons including: lack of administration bragging about it, test format, archaic curriculum, other stuff that will go unnamed.

Most of our tests feel more like undergrad style rather than med. I hear MS2 is more vignette based...and I'm pumped more than 10% of the year is important

 

[medhearter]

My point would be that the op was wrong.

no wasn't actually
30 is the average score for the matriculated class of 2014
26 was the average score for the matriculated class of 2011
there's been a 4-pt increase in the 3 years that passed

 

[medhearter]

Just curious OP, you said first year was easy yet you only did "alright" in your classes? I guess when I consider something easy, I generally ace it no problem. Sounds like it was easy because you passed and could still get your kicks? Hmmm...

i actually honored my classes. but would ofcourse like to do better in terms of numeric grades in second year.

i know what my drawbacks were. didn't detail them here. i did well, but i do want to do better. and ofcourse be solidly ready for the boards. thanks for the responses here. were good for some perspective.

 

[2012mdc]

Meh dude rankings mean nothing except maybe getting hooked up into certain residencies. I'd much rather be like you with a 260 than be at a top 10 and get like a 210 lol. Sometimes I feel like my school thinks they're too good to teach towards boards and just do their own thing. Oh well, nothing a little studying can't fix

Only brought up the rankings to show the difference between my school's mentality and yours. At a top 10 school they will have a strong match list every year just because of the quality of the students there. If my school didn't teach to the boards our match lists would be terrible

My school is the opposite because they pride themselves on their students outperforming their MCAT on Step 1 ( I know the correlation is weak)

Thats a pretty good correlation. Im guessing the grades at my school do not correlate nearly as well to step 1 scores for reasons including: lack of administration bragging about it, test format, archaic curriculum, other stuff that will go unnamed.

They showed us near the beginning of 2nd year in an effort to keep class attendance up. Didn't really work.

I think the correlation comes from having two really good Path and Pathphys professors and Micro teaching to the boards extensively (liberal use of FA)

 

[Law2Doc]

Interesting. From what I saw at other schools that published data (A&M I think?), there was a very strong correlation between grades in the first two years and step 1 scores. Obviously there are confounding factors though, and correlation != causation. Does your schools curriculum not match well with the boards?

Let's not be guilty of the preallo approach to statistics here. Many schools have shown A correlation between doing well in med school (especially second year of med school) and doing well on Step I. Some go further and assert that how you do in med school is going to be more indicative of how you will perform on Step I than other factors (ie MCAT, undergrad performance). I think taking that and augmenting that claim that it is a STRONG correlation is questionable, because there are too many confounders-- ie to what extent are you just demonstrating that smart people are still smart two summers later. Most of the studies indicate that there is A correlation, moreso than other factors, but leave the judgement calls (ie strength) out. It's not like there aren't folks who do poorly in med school but step it up for step I, and it's not like there aren't a ton of people that do poorly on standardized tests and though solid in med school can't impress when they get to the Prometric workstation. Med school coursework generally provides a solid foundation for studying for Step I. Most of the real work in preparing comes from you during that summer. Which is why I think you don't want to try to pick a med school based on Step I scores -- the school itself doesn't have as much to do with it as the test taker. So yeah, there's a correlation between those folks who did well in learning the foundation and those who continue on to hone their studies when the test arrives. How much correlation is questionable, because it is near impossible to zero out the background noise and isolate that one component for study, so you'd ( or any school who alleged this would) be wrong to conclude the correlation was strong. Nothing is written in stone until you take that test.

 

[cowme]

thank you for your response. =]

i guess i'd also like to hear back from people who thought first year was easy as well. and maybe second year hit them like a big surprise?

the thing is that a very similar thing happened to me in undergrad. i thought my first year was easy and a review, but then second year hit me hard because i had lost a lot of work ethic. i'm determined to not let that happen in med school, but i'm wondering if anyone had a similar experience

I thought first year was a joke. My school didn't take it too seriously, it's all P/F (with no hidden rankings). It was all college material that I already knew. Second year was definitely way harder, but still not too bad. Easy material, just a LOT of it. It will definitely be more work.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

Interesting. From what I saw at other schools that published data (A&M I think?), there was a very strong correlation between grades in the first two years and step 1 scores. Obviously there are confounding factors though, and correlation != causation. Does your schools curriculum not match well with the boards?

For Tennessee, this is med school GPA over the first two years and those student's average score (the number in parenthesis is how many students had that GPA):

4.00 (n=14) - 253
3.75-3.99 (18) - 245
3.50-3.74 (15) - 237
3.25-3.49 (24) - 224
3.00-3.24 (31) - 222
2.75-2.99 (18) - 210
2.50-2.75 (15) - 198

Pretty strong correlation at this school. Obviously does not mean causation.

 

[JokerMD]

sdf

 

[Lil Mick]

For Tennessee, this is med school GPA over the first two years and those student's average score (the number in parenthesis is how many students had that GPA):

4.00 (n=14) - 253
3.75-3.99 (18) - 245
3.50-3.74 (15) - 237
3.25-3.49 (24) - 224
3.00-3.24 (31) - 222
2.75-2.99 (18) - 210
2.50-2.75 (15) - 198

Pretty strong correlation at this school. Obviously does not mean causation.

What are the standard deviations for each group of students? Also, do you happen to know what r is for this correlation?

 

[UAAWolf]

For Tennessee, this is med school GPA over the first two years and those student's average score (the number in parenthesis is how many students had that GPA):

4.00 (n=14) - 253
3.75-3.99 (18) - 245
3.50-3.74 (15) - 237
3.25-3.49 (24) - 224
3.00-3.24 (31) - 222
2.75-2.99 (18) - 210
2.50-2.75 (15) - 198

Pretty strong correlation at this school. Obviously does not mean causation.

Great job to Tenn! That's definitely the way to teach...I wish my school was like this.

 

[Sheldor]

For Tennessee, this is med school GPA over the first two years and those student's average score (the number in parenthesis is how many students had that GPA):

4.00 (n=14) - 253
3.75-3.99 (18) - 245
3.50-3.74 (15) - 237
3.25-3.49 (24) - 224
3.00-3.24 (31) - 222
2.75-2.99 (18) - 210
2.50-2.75 (15) - 198

Pretty strong correlation at this school. Obviously does not mean causation.

I wish every school posted something like this, if for no other reason I find it interesting.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

What are the standard deviations for each group of students? Also, do you happen to know what r is for this correlation?

Nope, those are not posted.

For what it's worth, the average USMLE scores for class of 2009 were (in descending order from 4.0 GPA down to the 2.25-2.49 bracket (same breakdown as above):

255, 243, 233, 226, 214, 209, 194, 191

Again, I am not saying this proves causation, but I just found the data interesting.

 

[bruinhd]

Let's not be guilty of the preallo approach to statistics here. Many schools have shown A correlation between doing well in med school (especially second year of med school) and doing well on Step I. Some go further and assert that how you do in med school is going to be more indicative of how you will perform on Step I than other factors (ie MCAT, undergrad performance). I think taking that and augmenting that claim that it is a STRONG correlation is questionable, because there are too many confounders-- ie to what extent are you just demonstrating that smart people are still smart two summers later. Most of the studies indicate that there is A correlation, moreso than other factors, but leave the judgement calls (ie strength) out. It's not like there aren't folks who do poorly in med school but step it up for step I, and it's not like there aren't a ton of people that do poorly on standardized tests and though solid in med school can't impress when they get to the Prometric workstation. Med school coursework generally provides a solid foundation for studying for Step I. Most of the real work in preparing comes from you during that summer. Which is why I think you don't want to try to pick a med school based on Step I scores -- the school itself doesn't have as much to do with it as the test taker. So yeah, there's a correlation between those folks who did well in learning the foundation and those who continue on to hone their studies when the test arrives. How much correlation is questionable, because it is near impossible to zero out the background noise and isolate that one component for study, so you'd ( or any school who alleged this would) be wrong to conclude the correlation was strong. Nothing is written in stone until you take that test.

K. There's all of this stuff he just said, and then there's dudes who just bust their arse come time for Step 1 and stun everybody. So all of this means....shmooooooooop.

 

[ArcGurren]

Nope, those are not posted.

For what it's worth, the average USMLE scores for class of 2009 were (in descending order from 4.0 GPA down to the 2.25-2.49 bracket (same breakdown as above):

255, 243, 233, 226, 214, 209, 194, 191

Again, I am not saying this proves causation, but I just found the data interesting.

Obviously doesn't prove causation, but for the newer posters... don't be frightened by this kind of data. I know of people who barely passed/remediated most of their first two year classes and then got 250s on their Step 1. It depends on your approach - many people just don't give a crap about their grades and don't bother. Some people just test really well. etc etc.

On the converse side I know people in AOA who blew the doors off of their classes with straight Honors but then come Step 1 time, they did barely average because they're good memorizers and not synthesizers.

 

[UAAWolf]

K. There's all of this stuff he just said, and then there's dudes who just bust their arse come time for Step 1 and stun everybody. So all of this means....shmooooooooop.

This. 100% agree bro. These are the high yield folk who only focus on what matters lol

 

[2012mdc]

This. 100% agree bro. These are the high yield folk who only focus on what matters lol

Step 1 matters most but depending on your school's AOA selection policies pre-clinical grades are important. Of course AOA isn't necessary to match well but it obviously helps.

And it's not like doing well in classes and doing well on Step 1 are mutually exclusive.

 

[ArcGurren]

Step 1 matters most but depending on your school's AOA selection policies pre-clinical grades are important. Of course AOA isn't necessary to match well but it obviously helps.

And it's not like doing well in classes and doing well on Step 1 are mutually exclusive.

By extension "doing well" in class can also mean learning the material well for Step 1 and passing/high passing the classes instead of straight honoring.

I'm not bound for AOA anyway time soon (maybe senior but definitely not junior AOA) so from my perspective, I don't really give two s***s about the specialties where it makes or breaks your application (i.e. derm, plastics).

I also think that AOA status is a fairly arbitrary determinant of who is a "smart" person or a good doctor, so there's that. Someone might be an absolutely crappy clinician who ends up doing basic science research for the rest of their life in rad/onc but hey, he's AOA! On the other hand, you can match without it into something like ortho and be a world class surgeon.