- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Messages
- 3,118
- Reaction score
- 15
It is a survey. However, I did see some starting salaries for nephrologists and radiologists in North Dakota at 300k and 500k, respectively.
First Year Salary Survey
- Thread starter aegdboy
- Start date
It is a survey. However, I did see some starting salaries for nephrologists and radiologists in North Dakota at 300k and 500k, respectively.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2003
- Messages
- 547
- Reaction score
- 1
Your assumption is generally correct, but to locate to a place just based on this amount of information is scary. Regardless of the money, I would live were you want to live. I took 2 years just contemplating about my relocation while in dental school and narrowed it down to a few states and the locations in the states. And then it was still a little haphazard.
I dont practice in a rural area, but the town only has 30K residents. The sounding area are void of dentist, and many of my patient travel 30-40+ min to reach the office. There are a lot of families in rural communities that have money and have inherited large farms and businesses. Many of the poorer residents have Medicaid and you pull teeth all day which is also good money. If I were to relocate to a rural community in my area; it could be easily 9000/1 ratio compare to 2500/1 in my town.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2000
- Messages
- 265
- Reaction score
- 0
KOM,
You and I have talked about working in rural areas in Minnesota. I can P.M you our numbers that we do at our office they may change your wifes mind. I personally am not worried about the Oral Health Practioner in rural areas. Now I personally live 40 minutes from our office in an area of about 100,000. I know of a couple small practices that will be selling in the next few years in Minnesota that are gold mines, if the sellers can't find buyers my wife and I may consider purchasing them and forming a rural group practice, but that sounds like a big headache at this point in time.
When I started dental school I really wanted to practice in a metro area like Minneapolis. But after realizing that there is so much competition in these metro areas I decided to go were there is little competition. I'm not saying that living in desirable areas you are bound for failure, but sucess will be much harder to obtain.
I could go on and on about the merits of practicing in a rural area as opposed to a busy metro area.
Also KOM don't start a scratch practice in a rural try to find a retiring doc who is the only show in town.
You and I have talked about working in rural areas in Minnesota. I can P.M you our numbers that we do at our office they may change your wifes mind. I personally am not worried about the Oral Health Practioner in rural areas. Now I personally live 40 minutes from our office in an area of about 100,000. I know of a couple small practices that will be selling in the next few years in Minnesota that are gold mines, if the sellers can't find buyers my wife and I may consider purchasing them and forming a rural group practice, but that sounds like a big headache at this point in time.
When I started dental school I really wanted to practice in a metro area like Minneapolis. But after realizing that there is so much competition in these metro areas I decided to go were there is little competition. I'm not saying that living in desirable areas you are bound for failure, but sucess will be much harder to obtain.
I could go on and on about the merits of practicing in a rural area as opposed to a busy metro area.
Also KOM don't start a scratch practice in a rural try to find a retiring doc who is the only show in town.
Last edited:
Surely there are better ways to make money, don't you think?
Another offer on the table for me.
$500 a day for the first 90 days or 30% of production. Which ever is greater. After 90 days it is only 30% of production. No lab bill to pay
Some benefits like 10 days off, health insurance, CE up to $1500
Three more interviews in the next three weeks and I will need to make a choice soon. I was offered two positions already so I like the situation i'm in
As a side note. After sending out my resume, it took 6 weeks to even get my first interview. Don't get down on yourself and keep looking. It wasn't until two weeks ago that I actually got interviews
Good luck to all new grads and their job hunt. Pickings are slim in a lot of areas, but you will find something, I promise. Just cruise the internet EVERYDAY for about 1-2 hours doing key word searched in google, etc. Use words like "dental job" "dentist job", etc.
$500 a day for the first 90 days or 30% of production. Which ever is greater. After 90 days it is only 30% of production. No lab bill to pay
Some benefits like 10 days off, health insurance, CE up to $1500
Three more interviews in the next three weeks and I will need to make a choice soon. I was offered two positions already so I like the situation i'm in
As a side note. After sending out my resume, it took 6 weeks to even get my first interview. Don't get down on yourself and keep looking. It wasn't until two weeks ago that I actually got interviews
Good luck to all new grads and their job hunt. Pickings are slim in a lot of areas, but you will find something, I promise. Just cruise the internet EVERYDAY for about 1-2 hours doing key word searched in google, etc. Use words like "dental job" "dentist job", etc.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 24
- Reaction score
- 0
Another offer on the table for me.
$500 a day for the first 90 days or 30% of production. Which ever is greater. After 90 days it is only 30% of production. No lab bill to pay
Some benefits like 10 days off, health insurance, CE up to $1500
Three more interviews in the next three weeks and I will need to make a choice soon. I was offered two positions already so I like the situation i'm in
As a side note. After sending out my resume, it took 6 weeks to even get my first interview. Don't get down on yourself and keep looking. It wasn't until two weeks ago that I actually got interviews
Good luck to all new grads and their job hunt. Pickings are slim in a lot of areas, but you will find something, I promise. Just cruise the internet EVERYDAY for about 1-2 hours doing key word searched in google, etc. Use words like "dental job" "dentist job", etc.
Thanks for the posts with your offers... It's good to know what's out there. Please keep us posted on your job hunt!
What state is this latest offer in? With a chain or private practice?
Thanks
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2009
- Messages
- 465
- Reaction score
- 5
That $500 safety net is good at the begining. Make sure its 30% PRODUCTION not COLLECTION. 30% of production (ie before insurance write off) is about average.
ouch, that's like 84k a year after taxes.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2005
- Messages
- 3,068
- Reaction score
- 3,248
everything is low after taxes!
go to CANADA and see their income tax system; federal is 29% (over $120k), plus province taxes (ranging from 10% to 18% if you make over $100k) = easily 40-47% range. Now, that $120k first year salary is $70k take home, or $64k in certain provinces (half of which will go to your student loans).
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2003
- Messages
- 8,394
- Reaction score
- 37
I occasionally wish I'd had the kind of childhood that makes someone who's never held a job in their life think that a guaranteed $1700 a week after taxes, the first three months of your entire career, is an insultingly small amount.
Fortunately, I've always come quickly back to my senses.
If its FT and the 10 days off are paid, then that sounds pretty good for private practice. Sounds like they are busy enough to gaurantee you for at least 90 days.
I grew up very poor. I joined the navy, got out, and have a job that pays about 80k a year. I have zero formal education. If Im going to fork out 100-300k for an education lasting 8 years or more I'd expect to make a tad more.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2003
- Messages
- 8,394
- Reaction score
- 37
Then you should probably start considering careers other than dentistry, or simply stay in your current position. Best of luck.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2009
- Messages
- 465
- Reaction score
- 5
I think you're setting yourself up for a serious letdown because $400 base daily pay is what many offices offer a fresh graduate. aegdboy's offer of $500 is standard for someone fresh out of AEGD. He hasn't done AEGd, so better yet. I have a friend in N. Cal who started off making this much out of AEGD.
That $500/day is a sefety net, since he won't be cranking out molar endos, bridge preps and implant placements on day one. Its going to take him MORE than 3 months to develop a profitable practice since his begining months will be doing a lot of new patients exams and treatment planning.
I would have to agree with aphistis, if you don't think that that's a lot of money, and money's your primary conern, you probably should have kept your old job and save yourself the debt.
Last edited:
Good thing is, It will be a pay raise and I wont have to worry about student loans. Possible earnings will much higher in the end as well.
Oh and I still have my job, not gonna give up 80k a year till I absolutely have too. Which will probably be a week before I head off to dental school.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2004
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 0
I graduated Dental School May 15th from UF with ~200K in student loans. I was considering a private practice near my home town but a few things turned me away. They offered 300/day or 30% collections* plus I pay full lab, not the best deal but I was considering it...for a while.
Then I found a NHSC site/clinic in the panhandle that offered loan repayment. They offered 120K + benefits including 9% of my salary (~10K/yr) in retirement/401k (this is in addition to salary/fully vested after 1 year), health (I pay like 20%, ~50/mo), no malpractice (working for the state), ~30 days off (sick/vac), and they will cover related CE. Basically, I will be a state employee. The kicker is the clinic is 90% pedo/10% emergency. Fortunately I have a great opportunity for mentor-ship as time allows.
The loan repayment involves a 2 year commitment to NHSC but once my application is approved I will get 50K tax free to put towards approved* loans. This is paid as a lump sum at the beginning of the contract. I have insider info the NHSC will be reopening the application cycle early June due to increased funding from the Stimulus Bill. I plan to work for a few weeks/months before applying/signing the NHSC contract to ensure this clinic is the place for me for the next 2 years.
I've got 2 weeks before I start. Any thoughts/advice?
Then I found a NHSC site/clinic in the panhandle that offered loan repayment. They offered 120K + benefits including 9% of my salary (~10K/yr) in retirement/401k (this is in addition to salary/fully vested after 1 year), health (I pay like 20%, ~50/mo), no malpractice (working for the state), ~30 days off (sick/vac), and they will cover related CE. Basically, I will be a state employee. The kicker is the clinic is 90% pedo/10% emergency. Fortunately I have a great opportunity for mentor-ship as time allows.
The loan repayment involves a 2 year commitment to NHSC but once my application is approved I will get 50K tax free to put towards approved* loans. This is paid as a lump sum at the beginning of the contract. I have insider info the NHSC will be reopening the application cycle early June due to increased funding from the Stimulus Bill. I plan to work for a few weeks/months before applying/signing the NHSC contract to ensure this clinic is the place for me for the next 2 years.
I've got 2 weeks before I start. Any thoughts/advice?
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2003
- Messages
- 8,394
- Reaction score
- 37
90% pedo is way more than enough to turn me away. But if kids are your thing, sounds pretty appealling.
Never heard of that 50k being tax free, but if you say so. My loan repayment isn't. I've got similar deal going in terms of benies and compensation. I have not heard of a better deal out there coming out of school.
You will likely see 10-20 patients a day in one of those clinics, that is tough, but so was d school. If you come out after 2 years and you can handle kids very well, are very fast with operative and OS, then I'd say that kind of clinical foundation is excellent. You can build a very profitable private practice treating families and if word gets out at the playground that "Dr. x is really good with our kids," every mother in town whose kid is fearful of the dentist will be calling to book your schedule for weeks out. From there you can do crowns and implants on mom and dad and develop a busy family practice. Taking a long view this looks like it could benefit you very much. Oh and I think its smart to hold off on the contract until you are sure.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2004
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 0
NHSC LRP Payments Are Not Taxable
NHSC LRP payments made to participants are exempt from gross income and employment taxes. These funds are not included as wages when determining benefits under the Social Security Act.
link
Plus it is disbursed lump sum (50K) within 90 days of your contract start date.
Pedo was not something I originally considered, but after I evaluated everything I'm confident I can make it work, and will likely* find it quite enjoyable and rewarding. Yes, the clinic sees a lot of patients but they also have the usual no-shows of 20-40% and I have a deal set up where I can walk across the street and spend time with a very successful practitioner/mentor when this happens. I calculate this contract to be worth ~165-180K in "soft" dollars. You can't beat tax free money.
NHSC LRP payments made to participants are exempt from gross income and employment taxes. These funds are not included as wages when determining benefits under the Social Security Act.
link
Plus it is disbursed lump sum (50K) within 90 days of your contract start date.
Pedo was not something I originally considered, but after I evaluated everything I'm confident I can make it work, and will likely* find it quite enjoyable and rewarding. Yes, the clinic sees a lot of patients but they also have the usual no-shows of 20-40% and I have a deal set up where I can walk across the street and spend time with a very successful practitioner/mentor when this happens. I calculate this contract to be worth ~165-180K in "soft" dollars. You can't beat tax free money.
- Joined
- May 20, 2008
- Messages
- 460
- Reaction score
- 5
Just out of curiosity what was the HPSA score for your site?
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2004
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 0
I think it's an 18. They are also building a new 12million dollar health clinic (including dental) that I will be migrating too near the end of my commitment. I think they are scheduled to break ground in 6 months but you know how government project go....or don't go
Don't forget in FL Pedo under medicaid means up to the age of 21 so you will get a lot of experience in doing some great procedures. Here is what FL medicaid covers for under 21 years of age:
Reimbursable dental services for children under age 21:
· Diagnostic examinations;
· Radiographs necessary to make a diagnosis;
· Preventive services (including application of sealants on permanent first and second molars once per three years, per tooth);
· Restorations;
· Endodontics/periodontic treatment;
· Dentures, complete and partial;
· Oral surgery; and
· Orthodontic treatment.
Reimbursable dental services for adults (emergency services rendered to alleviate pain or infection):
· Problem-focused oral exam;
· Necessary radiographs to make a diagnosis;
· Extractions; and
· Incision and drainage of an abscess.
You will learn a lot on the job and beat out 80% of people in a residency in terms of experience. Great find!
http://www.hrsa.gov/reimbursement/states/Florida-Medicaid-Covered-Services.htm
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 811
- Reaction score
- 0
I offer $300 for the first 90 days, 35% prodution for rountine procedures, and 50% production for major services such as C&B, RCT, SSC, surgical extraction, no lab bills at my office. I just finish up the interview process with 10 applicants and about to hire a fresh new grad for a full time associate position.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,154
- Reaction score
- 73
that sounds like a pretty good deal! 50% w/ no lab bills? wow.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2009
- Messages
- 192
- Reaction score
- 1
Really good offer after the initial 90 days if the practice is busy!
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 98
- Reaction score
- 0
10 INTERVIEWED applicants for ONE position? Wouldn't that mean like 50 applications were submitted? This suggests there really is very little demand for dentists out there!
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,154
- Reaction score
- 73
take a deep breath...everything will be OK.....i don't think we have to worry about the starving dentists out there quite yet. with a great offer it is reasonable that there should be that many applicants i figure.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2004
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 0
I see you are class of 08, are you hiring an associate one year out of school?
More details please...
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 811
- Reaction score
- 0
I got only 12 applicants and invited 10 to the office for face-to-face interview. I'm only interested in person with dental license and nice personality with good people skills.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 811
- Reaction score
- 0
I see you are class of 08, are you hiring an associate one year out of school?
Bought a large practice with 8 chairs, 3 docs and 12 staffs right after dental school. My former associate was deployed last month to Afghanistan. He is a commanding officer for the Navy reserve dental unit in Houston
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2006
- Messages
- 570
- Reaction score
- 1
I think I'm going to be applying for a job at your practice.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,371
- Reaction score
- 273
Can you pay me $300 cash daily so I can qualify for Section 8 and welfare? I am tired of the government ripping me off and just wanna semiretire early. Give a four molar root canals a day and we'll call it a day after I make $3000+ for you daily.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 98
- Reaction score
- 0
Have you already decided to hire someone who is a new grad? Do you not have someone more experienced amongst the 10 interviewed? I'm sure there are many associates with 2+ experience in private practice or with GPR/AEGD experience. In the engineering field, the most experienced applicant usually gets the job.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2009
- Messages
- 465
- Reaction score
- 5
Wow seriously, how can you afford to pay that much (50% production). Do you own the building? Standard of living really low? Are you a insurance non par office? Inquiring minds want to know.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 811
- Reaction score
- 0
sure... I did ask Phil to forward the job opening info to '09 grads couple months ago.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 811
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
- 811
- Reaction score
- 0
It's doable. I rent a gated 4000 sf free standing building + 3000 sf for parking for only $2500/month .
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2005
- Messages
- 3,068
- Reaction score
- 3,248
$7.50/sq ft is really cheap, the office must be in a small town community.
I know someone in Seattle who is paying $24 sq ft, but his practice is located in a mall.
Well another 0ffer.
27% of production with a min yearly guarantee of $95k
The details: No lab bill, full benefits including maxing out simple IRA, 401k, disability, malpractice, health insurance, paid vacation (i can't remember how many days)
This position may turn into ownership so practice value will be established now. I won't have to pay for equity I built. He can't make purchases greater than $1500 without letting me know. After a one year trial and if we still like each other, 20% of my income after tax goes into equity account to build a down payment for the practice. Purchase can occur at anytime but no greater than 6 years from now.
Thats the run down. I have a 25 page contract with some major details so the above is really just a run down.
27% of production with a min yearly guarantee of $95k
The details: No lab bill, full benefits including maxing out simple IRA, 401k, disability, malpractice, health insurance, paid vacation (i can't remember how many days)
This position may turn into ownership so practice value will be established now. I won't have to pay for equity I built. He can't make purchases greater than $1500 without letting me know. After a one year trial and if we still like each other, 20% of my income after tax goes into equity account to build a down payment for the practice. Purchase can occur at anytime but no greater than 6 years from now.
Thats the run down. I have a 25 page contract with some major details so the above is really just a run down.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2003
- Messages
- 8,394
- Reaction score
- 37
25-page contract = spend the money to have an attorney you trust review the document for you.
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,173
- Reaction score
- 259
Well 40% Canadian dollars is like 12% real America dollars
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2007
- Messages
- 214
- Reaction score
- 2
It is amazing. I still remember going to Canada when I was a kid. A 20 dollar bill was like 10 dollars, lol.
Now the US dollar is weak.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2009
- Messages
- 192
- Reaction score
- 1
Giving 40% to an associate after overhead expenses isn't very much for the owner.
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,173
- Reaction score
- 259
Oh I know, but the jokes will live on forever in my heart
GREENVILLE, NC - Fantastic opportunity for a GP dentist. Base salary starting at 150K DOE with monthly performance bonuses. Our full time associates earned anywhere from 230K-350K last year. I'm offering a car plus a gas card for this particular opportunity. We have a group insurance plan, paid malpractice insurance, paid license renewals, retirement plan, paid holidays and vacation. (NC101)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 24
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2008
- Messages
- 233
- Reaction score
- 6
What group is this with? I think I have an idea.
I've hired dentists in all of those areas (except LA) and always paid $600/day for first 90 days, then a % of collection (no lab) after that with a draw. The % of collection depended on what was negotiated, but the average associate was making $220k and the average doc with equity made $380k. That's on 80% capitation too and not seeing an overwhelming amount of PTs. When being paid on production/collection you need to have a great team around you to make good money.
I'd only recommend one corporation in those areas to work for. Other than that, look to private.
