FL Job Outlook

[eveningstar16]

Hello all, I just got my license on 1/10 after having to wait to be able to afford and take the NAPLEX/MPJE for the first time--tons of stress with family financial crises that never seem to end. I have been applying everywhere in the Tampa area for the last month, but I have had no offers yet. I had an interview for a central order pharmacist from a referral, and now they have the job on hold. I only hope for Florida Hospital to come through, I have been waiting for a response back from them. Despite me not having a residency, I have heard new grads get hired at FH and Bayfront, so I do not want to give up hope for a clinical position, my desired career path. It is frustrating I cannot move out of the area due to my living/transportation situation, so I really need to find a job here. I was wondering if anyone had experience with applying to CVS/Walgreens in this area and how difficult it is to get a job? Also, which company is better in terms of starting out new? I have sent in an app to CVS for a floater position and have completed my Walgreens apps. I am hoping to start somewhere so I can get the experience these hospital pharmacy employers apparently desire, and will move on once that happens. Thank you.

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[angiepharm]

hi, can i ask what position at florida hospital you applied for? i recently applied for the cardiology clinic clinical pharmacist position and have heard nothing after my initial interview with hr and request for references. hr told me for the other clinical specialist positions they want pgy2 residencies and board certifications. i have a pgy 1 with 11 years of hospital and clinic experience as a clinical specialist and was very surprised i couldn't even be considered.

 

[PAtoPharm]

According to the latest Pharmacy Manpower Project survey results, FL has an ADI of approximately 2.7, which indicates that there are officially more pharmacy school graduates in FL than there are jobs:

https://pharmacymanpower.com/map.php

 

[gwarm01]

Tampa General is hiring an Epic IT pharmacist if anyone is interested. They want at least 1 year of hospital experience. Shame I'm busy right now, I could stand to have a little spot on the bay with a dock..

According to the latest Pharmacy Manpower Project survey results, FL has an ADI of approximately 2.7, which indicates that there are officially more pharmacy school graduates in FL than there are jobs:

https://pharmacymanpower.com/map.php

Huh.. I thought this website has died off. This is the first update in a year.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Tampa General is hiring an Epic IT pharmacist if anyone is interested. They want at least 1 year of hospital experience. Shame I'm busy right now, I could stand to have a little spot on the bay with a dock..



Huh.. I thought this website has died off. This is the first update in a year.

Yeah, they just updated it. Check out the number of states with ADI's below 3.0. Aside from a couple undesirable southern states like AL and MS and midwestern states in the middle of nowhere, the majority of the country now has more pharmacists than jobs. What's really scary is that this site has traditionally been regarded to be a propaganda tool of the AACP, so if this data is positively skewed, imagine how bad the "unspun" stats are?

 

[steveysmith54]

Don't mean to change topics, but shocked that Nevada became one of the more saturated states. NV only has one pharm school and half of that school's class ends up moving back to CA.

 

[Dred Pirate]

goingto hard to get an offer with your naples

hi, can i ask what position at florida hospital you applied for? i recently applied for the cardiology clinic clinical pharmacist position and have heard nothing after my initial interview with hr and request for references. hr told me for the other clinical specialist positions they want pgy2 residencies and board certifications. i have a pgy 1 with 11 years of hospital and clinic experience as a clinical specialist and was very surprised i couldn't even be considered.

Florida Hospital has an extremely weird and odd set up - - you have 4 layers of rph's - the top two do the exact same thing, and the third does the same thing most of the time - only the title is different. There are some advantages - less weekends, for example. But the top two are salary and the other two are hourly - so guess what - if you stay late - you get paid, from what I have heard- you never stay late - it is all about work life balance - with no experience - you are going to start at the bottom rung - you can work your way up - if thatis what you want

 

[angiepharm]

goingto hard to get an offer with your naples

Florida Hospital has an extremely weird and odd set up - - you have 4 layers of rph's - the top two do the exact same thing, and the third does the same thing most of the time - only the title is different. There are some advantages - less weekends, for example. But the top two are salary and the other two are hourly - so guess what - if you stay late - you get paid, from what I have heard- you never stay late - it is all about work life balance - with no experience - you are going to start at the bottom rung - you can work your way up - if thatis what you want

yes it does seem very weird, especially requiring 4 references, and i haven't even gotten a 2nd interview yet. when i have to ask for more references for other jobs, my references assumed i had this job in the bag. and i have to explain, no i haven't even interviewed with the department yet. i don't know many jobs that check out your references until they know you're the one they want and just want to confirm you're a good employee.

my old job was similar to that you had clin spec 1 and clin spec 2, clinic spec 2 were salaried and the clinic spec 1 were hourly. we all did the same thing, and never had to stay late, but the clin spec 2 could leave early for a doctor appointment or emergency without entering pto since they were salaried but clin spec 1 had to enter pto since they were hourly.

 

[rxdawg21]

Don't mean to change topics, but shocked that Nevada became one of the more saturated states. NV only has one pharm school and half of that school's class ends up moving back to CA.

Definitely crazy. I know several people that moved out near vegas after graduation from the SE. I still have found that many peers that have experience have been able to switch jobs/upgrade. Can't imagine how new grads are doing tho.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Definitely crazy. I know several people that moved out near vegas after graduation from the SE. I still have found that many peers that have experience have been able to switch jobs/upgrade. Can't imagine how new grads are doing tho.

Check out the number of states that are now in the range of 2.5 - 2.99 for their ADI's (demand indices). GA is now included on that list, so I guess the job market in this state really did reach the tipping point with the most recent graduating class. Even I'm surprised by how bad the data is for some states, though (for example, Montana had a 4.0 ~6 months ago, and now its latest ADI is a 3.0). Unless the data is somehow skewed or inaccurate, it looks like various states' job markets are getting actively saturated over the span of just 6-8 months.

 

[angiepharm]

Georgia, or I should say Atlanta has been saturated. Atlanta is my home, and when i wanted to move back after residency and a few years working, i couldn't find a job. even retail seemed pretty saturated. I worked at target part time and couldn't even transfer because there were no openings. this was back in 2009. so i can imagine how bad it is now.

in maryland at the same time, everything was also saturated, i had a student who worked at walgreens for 10 years as a tech and later intern who wanted to stay with company post graduation, who was told he would have to float a few years b/c they couldn't get him a store. another student told me her DM at another chain asked her if she was planning to have any kids post graduation b/c he didn't want to give her her own store if she was going on maternity leave soon. i knew the market was bad and saturated then b/c previously DM's wouldn't have dreamed of even asking those types of questions. but i guess they figured oh well if she's offended we've got hundreds of other students waiting for your spot.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Georgia, or I should say Atlanta has been saturated. Atlanta is my home, and when i wanted to move back after residency and a few years working, i couldn't find a job. even retail seemed pretty saturated. I worked at target part time and couldn't even transfer because there were no openings. this was back in 2009. so i can imagine how bad it is now.

in maryland at the same time, everything was also saturated, i had a student who worked at walgreens for 10 years as a tech and later intern who wanted to stay with company post graduation, who was told he would have to float a few years b/c they couldn't get him a store. another student told me her DM at another chain asked her if she was planning to have any kids post graduation b/c he didn't want to give her her own store if she was going on maternity leave soon. i knew the market was bad and saturated then b/c previously DM's wouldn't have dreamed of even asking those types of questions. but i guess they figured oh well if she's offended we've got hundreds of other students waiting for your spot.

I definitely believe that the entire southeast will soon be saturated, aside from extremely undesirable areas like rural MS and LA. Everyone likes to insist that I'm wrong about everything, but even the AACP's own propaganda statistics (I.e., the Pharmacy Manpower project) now reflect the fact that more states than ever are saturated. On the topic of GA, it seems like the only areas that aren't saturated are southeast GA (Waycross, Moultrie, etc.) and the northern areas around the mountains. Otherwise, virtually every other mid-sized city (as well as Atlanta) is saturated. So glad I'm getting out of this disaster.

 

[gwarm01]

I definitely believe that the entire southeast will soon be saturated, aside from extremely undesirable areas like rural MS and LA. Everyone likes to insist that I'm wrong about everything, but even the AACP's own propaganda statistics (I.e., the Pharmacy Manpower project) now reflect the fact that more states than ever are saturated. On the topic of GA, it seems like the only areas that aren't saturated are southeast GA (Waycross, Moultrie, etc.) and the northern areas around the mountains. Otherwise, virtually every other mid-sized city (as well as Atlanta) is saturated. So glad I'm getting out of this disaster.

I think you'll find this is one area where everyone is in agreement. The trend has been moving towards saturation for a decade now. It looks like the revamped manpower page doesn't have the trend data up yet, I remember the old one showing a downward 10-year slope for every region in the country. Unless something happens (and I mean something real, not provider status or some mythical MTM clinic) then the only logical conclusion is total saturation.

It's a shame, really. Those of us who are in the field right now might do well to search for positions that are more difficult to fill. Even then you will have to deal with directors that believe a PGY1, 2, 3, sky is the limit, can replaced a seasoned veteran. My original thought when I was in a clinical position for a pediatric hospital is that every year I am there would allow me to gain more skills and make me more valuable and difficult to replace. That idea was blown out of the water when I saw a 5-year employee with a PGY1 completely snubbed out of a position that was basically made for them in favor of a freshly minted PGY1. Make no mistake, you are expendable and replaceable. I wouldn't be surprised if the next 5-10 (let's hope 10) years finds us facing mandatory pay cuts to keep our jobs.The only reason we are paid our current rate is due to the shortage of the early 2000's, a situation that hasn't been the case since the great recession.

Florida's job market was bad back in 2013 when I first started, so I can only imagine how it is now or will be in the next few years. I'm afraid I'll never be able to return to my favorite coastal city until retirement, by which time it will have been reclaimed by the ocean. I feel like I see more job openings on the SW coast or northern parts of the state, but how long can that last? They just opened a new school in Miami, a city where you are likely to make less than $50/hr in a hospital to start. Things are going to get bad.

p.s. @PAtoPharm you aren't out yet. You aren't out until you quit the program, which I really can't recommend until you get another acceptance in your pocket. Let's see some agressive applying! I know you are tied to that city, but I would look nationwide. Short term sacrifice is worth it for long term prosperity.

 

[steveysmith54]

Saturation bleeds into all regions of the country. Thinking otherwise is ignorance and myopathy....

Doing a residency is a must... the closest analogy that I can think of is it's like pledging process of joining a fraternity... doesn't matter how smart you are, in the future you won't get a job outside of retail without it.. all of the new directors of pharmacy have completed a residency and won't even consider someone without it... right or wrong, that's how it is...

I am hopefully that we have a reform in student loan process... if pharmacists aren't able to pay back loans and are having to go on ibr and paye, the government subsidized loans need to go away...

 

[rxdawg21]

Atlanta is saturated but it has calmed down some with some expansion and most likely retiring (due to stock market going up and tired of putting up with crappier conditions ). I have several friends that left cvs for publix and target (which is now cvs again lol/scary). Even some getting on in an outpatient setting at a hospital system or a compounding facility. All in Atlanta. The things they had in common were connections, good looking, good social skills, and good reputation. Sometimes the connection part was missing but the latter three traits applied to them all. I've also had friends get on at independents or hospitals either fresh out of school or 1-2 years experience. They weren't in Atlanta (although one went into night shifts in Atlanta straight from retail after 1 year and is now doing day shifts.) but it is possible in Georgia. The other ones that went to hospital were from a relatively small town known by the staff and did 4th year appe there. So If you can't tel there is a trend . To get into a desirable retail /other unique situations in Atlanta you have to be cream of the crop and most likely have connections. To get into hospital in middle size ga you have to have connections and again be liked.

 

[rxdawg21]

Saturation bleeds into all regions of the country. Thinking otherwise is ignorance and myopathy....

Doing a residency is a must... the closest analogy that I can think of is it's like pledging process of joining a fraternity... doesn't matter how smart you are, in the future you won't get a job outside of retail without it.. all of the new directors of pharmacy have completed a residency and won't even consider someone without it... right or wrong, that's how it is...

I am hopefully that we have a reform in student loan process... if pharmacists aren't able to pay back loans and are having to go on ibr and paye, the government subsidized loans need to go away...

The government should be rewarding those that go into grad school in verifiable high paying careers as their lifetime tax revenue will increase. Instead the grad students cannot get subsidized loans and have higher interest rates in undergrad both principles that go directly against a free market it is crazy. And by that I mean knowing someone's ability to repay by likelihood of a good job that pays lowers your interest rate. Then when you get out you can't even write off the student loan interest. The current generation of grad students have collectively been taken to the cleaners, when in the past it was just those that went to high priced private schools that took the lower tier students that weren't competitive enough for the spots at the cheaper, better educated/connected schools

 

[angiepharm]

Atlanta is saturated but it has calmed down some with some expansion and most likely retiring (due to stock market going up and tired of putting up with crappier conditions ). I have several friends that left cvs for publix and target (which is now cvs again lol/scary). Even some getting on in an outpatient setting at a hospital system or a compounding facility. All in Atlanta. The things they had in common were connections, good looking, good social skills, and good reputation. Sometimes the connection part was missing but the latter three traits applied to them all. I've also had friends get on at independents or hospitals either fresh out of school or 1-2 years experience. They weren't in Atlanta (although one went into night shifts in Atlanta straight from retail after 1 year and is now doing day shifts.) but it is possible in Georgia. The other ones that went to hospital were from a relatively small town known by the staff and did 4th year appe there. So If you can't tel there is a trend . To get into a desirable retail /other unique situations in Atlanta you have to be cream of the crop and most likely have connections. To get into hospital in middle size ga you have to have connections and again be liked.

yes, i agree about connections and how well liked you are. sometimes its not even about how smart you are. if everyone likes you and you're attractive, the skies the limit at some jobs. you can be the smartest person, but if you don't get along and in constant conflict with supervisors and coworkers, they'll choose the person with better social skills. which really sucks for people relocating b/c you're starting from scratch. while, if you know someone they can vouch for you, and you can get the insight on jobs that aren't even advertised yet, shoot you can get first dibs on jobs from old preceptors if you had a good work ethic.

 

[angiepharm]

off topic, but kind of related, i've been reading some old post today since i was off, and i think some students think their dream job will just drop in their lap. for some it will, but for most it won't. it may mean you have to move to wherever in some rural country town to gain the skills and experience to make you more competitive, or it may mean you'll have to do a residency. i don't know why most don't realize in this highly competitive environment, you have to do a residency. i know a lot of older pharmacist who discourage students telling them its not required. i always tell that student the real scoop, those pharmacist haven't had to look for a job in over 20 years, they don't know the real scoop. but then of course, they think I'm just talking and dismiss my advice. i had family member who is in pharmacy school now want to be an ER pharmacist. i told her she needed to do a pgy1 and pgy2, her preceptor told her residency wasnt needed since she didn't do one, so of course she isn't listening to me. i told her, your preceptor worked at that hospital for close to 20 years prior to being moved to the ER, if you want to work 20 years before doing it, fine, but realize you're listening to antiquated advice.

 

[gwarm01]

yes, i agree about connections and how well liked you are. sometimes its not even about how smart you are. if everyone likes you and you're attractive, the skies the limit at some jobs. you can be the smartest person, but if you don't get along and in constant conflict with supervisors and coworkers, they'll choose the person with better social skills. which really sucks for people relocating b/c you're starting from scratch. while, if you know someone they can vouch for you, and you can get the insight on jobs that aren't even advertised yet, shoot you can get first dibs on jobs from old preceptors if you had a good work ethic.

Well then thank god for my winning smile and baby blue eyes. You're not wrong.

off topic, but kind of related, i've been reading some old post today since i was off, and i think some students think their dream job will just drop in their lap. for some it will, but for most it won't. it may mean you have to move to wherever in some rural country town to gain the skills and experience to make you more competitive, or it may mean you'll have to do a residency. i don't know why most don't realize in this highly competitive environment, you have to do a residency. i know a lot of older pharmacist who discourage students telling them its not required. i always tell that student the real scoop, those pharmacist haven't had to look for a job in over 20 years, they don't know the real scoop. but then of course, they think I'm just talking and dismiss my advice. i had family member who is in pharmacy school now want to be an ER pharmacist. i told her she needed to do a pgy1 and pgy2, her preceptor told her residency wasnt needed since she didn't do one, so of course she isn't listening to me. i told her, your preceptor worked at that hospital for close to 20 years prior to being moved to the ER, if you want to work 20 years before doing it, fine, but realize you're listening to antiquated advice.

Very good points. Pharmacy students and young pharmacists still think we are living in the era of shortage, and this just isn't the case. They seem to want to have their dream job, in their dream city, right out of school. I can understand the expectation as that still seems to be the image portrayed by many people in the profession. It's a selfish and silly thing to expect. To get a job that pays on our level in any other industry would require moving to another city, another state, hell, maybe even another country. Healthcare has the great benefit of being in demand anywhere where human beings live, so we do have that going for us. You just have to realize that your value is driven by your scarcity, and in a world where we are pumping out.. what is it? 12,000 or so pharmacists per year, you no longer have the power in negotiations. It's like I always tell my e-protege @PAtoPharm (sorry to keep bringing you up), you have to hustle in this job market. You need to make sure people know who you are. You have to take that job 1,000 miles away to build your resume. If you aren't willing to fight for what you want then someone else will take it. The age of handouts has ended.

That's a funny point about the 20 year vet telling a student not to worry about residency if they want an ER position. I hear the same sentiment from some of my colleagues when speaking to young pharmacy techs who want to become pharmacists. They encourage them to enter the field and say that you can have any job you want. It's always the people who have been in the same institution for 20 years and have never tried to find another job. I try to give them a more realistic view, being someone who is much younger and has shifted jobs a few times. It can be cutthroat out there, even in less than desirable markets. I still think someone who knows what they are getting into can succeed, but you have to have a plan.

 

[rxdawg21]

If someone seriously believes they can do er medicine without a residency today they have a problem. Everyone in my class at uga had basic understanding of any clinical job not in a rural town where you already knew people you had to have a residency to get or have a chance to get

 

[Sine Cura]

As an estimator, PDI is hardly unbiased but it is something.

The surprising one is CA(north) in the same category as Alaska... maybe they meant CA south of Chico

Nevada not really surprising. State population is only ~2.9 million and LV metro area is ~2 million. Roseman graduates 200+ a year but not all of them go to CA. Reno probably gets some spillover from northern CA schools

 

[PAtoPharm]

I think you'll find this is one area where everyone is in agreement. The trend has been moving towards saturation for a decade now. It looks like the revamped manpower page doesn't have the trend data up yet, I remember the old one showing a downward 10-year slope for every region in the country. Unless something happens (and I mean something real, not provider status or some mythical MTM clinic) then the only logical conclusion is total saturation.

It's a shame, really. Those of us who are in the field right now might do well to search for positions that are more difficult to fill. Even then you will have to deal with directors that believe a PGY1, 2, 3, sky is the limit, can replaced a seasoned veteran. My original thought when I was in a clinical position for a pediatric hospital is that every year I am there would allow me to gain more skills and make me more valuable and difficult to replace. That idea was blown out of the water when I saw a 5-year employee with a PGY1 completely snubbed out of a position that was basically made for them in favor of a freshly minted PGY1. Make no mistake, you are expendable and replaceable. I wouldn't be surprised if the next 5-10 (let's hope 10) years finds us facing mandatory pay cuts to keep our jobs.The only reason we are paid our current rate is due to the shortage of the early 2000's, a situation that hasn't been the case since the great recession.

Florida's job market was bad back in 2013 when I first started, so I can only imagine how it is now or will be in the next few years. I'm afraid I'll never be able to return to my favorite coastal city until retirement, by which time it will have been reclaimed by the ocean. I feel like I see more job openings on the SW coast or northern parts of the state, but how long can that last? They just opened a new school in Miami, a city where you are likely to make less than $50/hr in a hospital to start. Things are going to get bad.

p.s. @PAtoPharm you aren't out yet. You aren't out until you quit the program, which I really can't recommend until you get another acceptance in your pocket. Let's see some agressive applying! I know you are tied to that city, but I would look nationwide. Short term sacrifice is worth it for long term prosperity.

Well then thank god for my winning smile and baby blue eyes. You're not wrong.



Very good points. Pharmacy students and young pharmacists still think we are living in the era of shortage, and this just isn't the case. They seem to want to have their dream job, in their dream city, right out of school. I can understand the expectation as that still seems to be the image portrayed by many people in the profession. It's a selfish and silly thing to expect. To get a job that pays on our level in any other industry would require moving to another city, another state, hell, maybe even another country. Healthcare has the great benefit of being in demand anywhere where human beings live, so we do have that going for us. You just have to realize that your value is driven by your scarcity, and in a world where we are pumping out.. what is it? 12,000 or so pharmacists per year, you no longer have the power in negotiations. It's like I always tell my e-protege @PAtoPharm (sorry to keep bringing you up), you have to hustle in this job market. You need to make sure people know who you are. You have to take that job 1,000 miles away to build your resume. If you aren't willing to fight for what you want then someone else will take it. The age of handouts has ended.

That's a funny point about the 20 year vet telling a student not to worry about residency if they want an ER position. I hear the same sentiment from some of my colleagues when speaking to young pharmacy techs who want to become pharmacists. They encourage them to enter the field and say that you can have any job you want. It's always the people who have been in the same institution for 20 years and have never tried to find another job. I try to give them a more realistic view, being someone who is much younger and has shifted jobs a few times. It can be cutthroat out there, even in less than desirable markets. I still think someone who knows what they are getting into can succeed, but you have to have a plan.

I get it, the pharmacist shortage is over (and has in fact become a surplus) and so there are no more handout jobs that people are offered simply because they're pharmacists. But it's one thing for the market to become slightly more competitive... instead, all sources of job market statistical analysis are pointing towards a full-blown saturation in virtually every area of the country. Even the midwestern and northern states that have traditionally been known as "fall-back" states where any new pharmacist could always find a job are heading towards saturation. For example, someone pointed out above (or maybe in the other thread where the latest Pharmacy Manpower stats are being discussed) that as recently as September 2016, Montana's ADI was 4.0, and as of December 2016, its ADI has been reduced to 3.0. The situation is the same or even worse for other fall-back states, such as NV. At the current rate of saturation, even these states will have ADIs of 2.3-2.5 by the time the next round of stats is published this summer. By a year from now or even next fall, virtually every state in the country except a small handful will be totally saturated.

Unless my definition of "totally saturated" is different from others', doesn't that mean that basically every job will be accounted for and any pharmacists who don't have a job are going to be in bad shape? You even said yourself (in the first post I quoted) that the logical conclusion is total saturation. When the job market finally reaches that status, how will someone be able to count on finding a job even by moving 1000 miles away? Even with hustling and working as an intern and all that crap, just how many pharmacists are going to be out of a job simply because there are thousands too many of them? It would be one thing if you had to be an all-around top 5% pharmacy school graduate (in terms of grades, extracurriculars, intern experience, volunteering experience, etc.) to get some ultra-desirable clinical job at some nice concierge hospital in NYC or LA, but to go to those lengths just to get a bottom-of-the-barrel 32 hrs/week position at CVS is just stupid.

BTW, I know you said you think it's a bad idea for me to quit pharmacy school without a PA school acceptance in-hand, but I really think that even if I don't get accepted to a single PA school, continuing on with 3+ more years of pharmacy school is still just a bad idea for me, especially considering how expensive it will be in the end. If I graduate and can't find a job unless I'm willing to move to the other side of the country, I just won't work as a pharmacist and will end up going back to school to do something else at that point anyways and will simply plan on going on IBR/REPAYE.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Atlanta is saturated but it has calmed down some with some expansion and most likely retiring (due to stock market going up and tired of putting up with crappier conditions ). I have several friends that left cvs for publix and target (which is now cvs again lol/scary). Even some getting on in an outpatient setting at a hospital system or a compounding facility. All in Atlanta. The things they had in common were connections, good looking, good social skills, and good reputation. Sometimes the connection part was missing but the latter three traits applied to them all. I've also had friends get on at independents or hospitals either fresh out of school or 1-2 years experience. They weren't in Atlanta (although one went into night shifts in Atlanta straight from retail after 1 year and is now doing day shifts.) but it is possible in Georgia. The other ones that went to hospital were from a relatively small town known by the staff and did 4th year appe there. So If you can't tel there is a trend . To get into a desirable retail /other unique situations in Atlanta you have to be cream of the crop and most likely have connections. To get into hospital in middle size ga you have to have connections and again be liked.

That's similar to the point I made above to gwarm01. Now it takes connections, looks, reputation, experience, etc. just to get a standard non-clinical hospital pharmacist job in any of GA's undesirable medium-sized cities. By this time next year, a residency will probably be required even for those entry-level positions at the middle GA hospitals. Just ridiculous that anyone would consider spending potentially 6 years in pharmacy school/residency just to get an entry-level job paying $39/hour. Why couldn't the job market in the southeast have gotten saturated BEFORE I started pharmacy school, instead of kicking-in around the one semester mark? Cruel irony

 

[PAtoPharm]

As an estimator, PDI is hardly unbiased but it is something.

The surprising one is CA(north) in the same category as Alaska... maybe they meant CA south of Chico

Nevada not really surprising. State population is only ~2.9 million and LV metro area is ~2 million. Roseman graduates 200+ a year but not all of them go to CA. Reno probably gets some spillover from northern CA schools

Like you said, PDI isn't an unbiased source... so in that sense, wouldn't the "real" stats be even more dire than what they published?

 

[steveysmith54]

As an estimator, PDI is hardly unbiased but it is something.

The surprising one is CA(north) in the same category as Alaska... maybe they meant CA south of Chico

Nevada not really surprising. State population is only ~2.9 million and LV metro area is ~2 million. Roseman graduates 200+ a year but not all of them go to CA. Reno probably gets some spillover from northern CA schools

I question if PDI has enough data at its disposable to accurately assess the saturation. It may be the best resource that we have to describe general trends, which isn't saying much bc nobody in academia and the so called pharmacy leaders will tell you the truth.

It may be deceiving for them to say that NorCal has jobs. Most people think of San Francisco and Bay area as Norcal. Good luck finding anything over there. I have read on this board that there are select cities in Norcal with chains who are still hiring. This is why not many people complained when Cal Northstate became the 9th pharm school in CA, very contrary to Chapman, WestCoast, KGI, and Ketchum who are within 40 mile radius of the arguably the most saturated area in the country.

 

[steveysmith54]

Unless my definition of "totally saturated" is different from others', doesn't that mean that basically every job will be accounted for and any pharmacists who don't have a job are going to be in bad shape? You even said yourself (in the first post I quoted) that the logical conclusion is total saturation. When the job market finally reaches that status, how will someone be able to count on finding a job even by moving 1000 miles away? Even with hustling and working as an intern and all that crap, just how many pharmacists are going to be out of a job simply because there are thousands too many of them? It would be one thing if you had to be an all-around top 5% pharmacy school graduate (in terms of grades, extracurriculars, intern experience, volunteering experience, etc.) to get some ultra-desirable clinical job at some nice concierge hospital in NYC or LA, but to go to those lengths just to get a bottom-of-the-barrel 32 hrs/week position at CVS is just stupid.

BTW, I know you said you think it's a bad idea for me to quit pharmacy school without a PA school acceptance in-hand, but I really think that even if I don't get accepted to a single PA school, continuing on with 3+ more years of pharmacy school is still just a bad idea for me, especially considering how expensive it will be in the end. If I graduate and can't find a job unless I'm willing to move to the other side of the country, I just won't work as a pharmacist and will end up going back to school to do something else at that point anyways and will simply plan on going on IBR/REPAYE.

There is a phenomenon called turnover. It's quite prevalent in chains. Despite the common myth, pharmacists are people, too. We need to retire, we get ill, need to move, some have kids, or just find better opportunities. There will always be SOME jobs. As others have stated if you use indeed and apply off the street, your odds are slim. If you're an internal intern or have someone vouch for you, your odds are better.

"but to go to those lengths just to get a bottom-of-the-barrel 32 hrs/week position at CVS is just stupid"
Here is where I think you're incredibly wrong. 32 hrs a week at CVS in CA at 65 dollars per hour is still close 110K. Even in CA, that's solid money. You can afford a reasonable place to live, can start a family, get to enjoy extra time off. You're giving yourself a shot at good life, better than most people have in America. What the hell are you going to do for the rest of your life? Live in your parents' basement, research random professions when you're 50? I think that you developed a false sense of confidence after being accepted to pharmacy school and think that suddenly you have opened the admission door to any health care profession, which i HIGHLY doubt is the case.

 

[rxdawg21]

That's similar to the point I made above to gwarm01. Now it takes connections, looks, reputation, experience, etc. just to get a standard non-clinical hospital pharmacist job in any of GA's undesirable medium-sized cities. By this time next year, a residency will probably be required even for those entry-level positions at the middle GA hospitals. Just ridiculous that anyone would consider spending potentially 6 years in pharmacy school/residency just to get an entry-level job paying $39/hour. Why couldn't the job market in the southeast have gotten saturated BEFORE I started pharmacy school, instead of kicking-in around the one semester mark? Cruel irony

It was pretty saturated, I told you as much, just because you saw chain jobs posted in an undesirable town in GA doesn't change that. I also said (or thought) that now that the cities have reached a tipping point there has been a major spillover to the other bigger cities in ga and now the rural towns. I wouldn't have recommended anyone go to pharmacy school after 2010 ( I was half way through school) just from what I was seeing and how fast the job market was changing. Luckily, it's improved somewhat the last few years. Again we have had a huge bull market and I'm sure many of the old timers hung it up with that and the changes, or they were forced out.

 

[PAtoPharm]

It was pretty saturated, I told you as much, just because you saw chain jobs posted in an undesirable town in GA doesn't change that. I also said (or thought) that now that the cities have reached a tipping point there has been a major spillover to the other bigger cities in ga and now the rural towns. I wouldn't have recommended anyone go to pharmacy school after 2010 ( I was half way through school) just from what I was seeing and how fast the job market was changing. Luckily, it's improved somewhat the last few years. Again we have had a huge bull market and I'm sure many of the old timers hung it up with that and the changes, or they were forced out.

If that really is the case (the old guys finally deciding to retire or being forced out), won't that only provide a temporary bump to the job market? In other words, once the pharmacists from that generation retire, won't the job market go back to being totally oversaturated?

Also, you made another good point that a lot of people don't really seem to understand, which is that here in GA (just like in FL, which is the topic of this thread), the oversupply of new grads is starting to spill over into the rural towns. In other words, hustling, working as an intern, etc. won't make any difference if there are virtually no jobs (I.e., no need) left. I wonder what the graduates of the c/o 2018 in GA (and FL too) are going to do, since it looks like the c/o 2018 finally pushed the job market over the tipping point to saturation.

 

[PAtoPharm]

There is a phenomenon called turnover. It's quite prevalent in chains. Despite the common myth, pharmacists are people, too. We need to retire, we get ill, need to move, some have kids, or just find better opportunities. There will always be SOME jobs. As others have stated if you use indeed and apply off the street, your odds are slim. If you're an internal intern or have someone vouch for you, your odds are better.

"but to go to those lengths just to get a bottom-of-the-barrel 32 hrs/week position at CVS is just stupid"
Here is where I think you're incredibly wrong. 32 hrs a week at CVS in CA at 65 dollars per hour is still close 110K. Even in CA, that's solid money. You can afford a reasonable place to live, can start a family, get to enjoy extra time off. You're giving yourself a shot at good life, better than most people have in America. What the hell are you going to do for the rest of your life? Live in your parents' basement, research random professions when you're 50? I think that you developed a false sense of confidence after being accepted to pharmacy school and think that suddenly you have opened the admission door to any health care profession, which i HIGHLY doubt is the case.

Ironically, if I get accepted to PA school on my first application attempt, I'll be spending a year's less time living with my parents than if I continue with pharmacy. Like I said, maybe I won't get accepted to a single PA program in the country, but I think taking that risk is worth it, especially considering the alternative. Also, pharmacists (even in retail) don't make anywhere near $65/hr here in the southeast.

 

[angiepharm]

Ironically, if I get accepted to PA school on my first application attempt, I'll be spending a year's less time living with my parents than if I continue with pharmacy. Like I said, maybe I won't get accepted to a single PA program in the country, but I think taking that risk is worth it, especially considering the alternative. Also, pharmacists (even in retail) don't make anywhere near $65/hr here in the southeast.

are you sure about that? im in the southeast, and although it may not be $65, its close to it, atleast where im located

 

[angiepharm]

The thing is the market is saturated and yes there is an oversupply, however its not armageden and pharmacist are not suddenly going to start getting minimum wage because there are millions of other pharmacist without jobs. You have to be realistic without being panicky if that makes sense. understand that the days of 20k sign on bonus's are over, but also understand that it doesn't mean you'll have to go on unemployment b/c you cant find a job. you have to be flexable with your location, and cannot be stuck on only 1 location. that's true for any job, MD, PharmD, PA, NP. the only job I really know of that you can be found virtually anywhere is for a RN

 

[steveysmith54]

Ironically, if I get accepted to PA school on my first application attempt, I'll be spending a year's less time living with my parents than if I continue with pharmacy. Like I said, maybe I won't get accepted to a single PA program in the country, but I think taking that risk is worth it, especially considering the alternative. Also, pharmacists (even in retail) don't make anywhere near $65/hr here in the southeast.

What if you don't get accepted into PA school? Does that mean parents' basement forever? You bring up considering Alternative.. Alternative is a shot at making it as a RPh.

Even if they don't pay as much, your cost of living, in particular housing is significantly less. there will always be jobs for the reasons stated in my previous post, however you have to be the right candidate for them and take the right steps to get them, which as of now is questionable that you want to do. You got to look at yourself in the mirror and ask am I doing the right things to make myself employable and on track to get these jobs? Am I interning, am I holding leadership positions; and I going to pharmacy meeting to meet future employers? Kinda of remember why i chose to stop replying to your HRSA thread. Its like talking to a wall.

 

[samven582]

Tampa General is hiring an Epic IT pharmacist if anyone is interested. They want at least 1 year of hospital experience. Shame I'm busy right now, I could stand to have a little spot on the bay with a dock..



Huh.. I thought this website has died off. This is the first update in a year.

Florida license required? I have 7 months experience with epic

 

[gwarm01]

Florida license required? I have 7 months experience with epic

I'm afraid so.

 

[rxdawg21]

If that really is the case (the old guys finally deciding to retire or being forced out), won't that only provide a temporary bump to the job market? In other words, once the pharmacists from that generation retire, won't the job market go back to being totally oversaturated?

Also, you made another good point that a lot of people don't really seem to understand, which is that here in GA (just like in FL, which is the topic of this thread), the oversupply of new grads is starting to spill over into the rural towns. In other words, hustling, working as an intern, etc. won't make any difference if there are virtually no jobs (I.e., no need) left. I wonder what the graduates of the c/o 2018 in GA (and FL too) are going to do, since it looks like the c/o 2018 finally pushed the job market over the tipping point to saturation.

Correct it's temporary and is my hypothesis for why it seems like the job market stagnated or got slightly better at least in Atlanta from 2013-2015 (in 2010 was hearing no jobs in Atlanta speal/ chains didn't want to interview you ). Walmart still starts out new grads at 58 and managers at 60. I make more then 60 at Walmart . I know Walmart pharmacist with >10 years above 65. I know Harvey's pharmacist with 2-3 years at 63.

 

[PAtoPharm]

What if you don't get accepted into PA school? Does that mean parents' basement forever? You bring up considering Alternative.. Alternative is a shot at making it as a RPh.

Even if they don't pay as much, your cost of living, in particular housing is significantly less. there will always be jobs for the reasons stated in my previous post, however you have to be the right candidate for them and take the right steps to get them, which as of now is questionable that you want to do. You got to look at yourself in the mirror and ask am I doing the right things to make myself employable and on track to get these jobs? Am I interning, am I holding leadership positions; and I going to pharmacy meeting to meet future employers? Kinda of remember why i chose to stop replying to your HRSA thread. Its like talking to a wall.

If I don't get accepted to PA/AA school, then I will do whatever I need to do to make myself competitive to get in (full-time healthcare job, take grad-level classes, whatever), or apply to the nuclear med tech program. I hear what you are saying about getting an intern job, holding leadership positions, etc., but I'm just not motivated enough to do all those things to get the relatively paltry ROI at the end of it all. I decided to text a former AA school classmate of mine earlier today, and he said he received a job offer from an anesthesia group in a very desirable area of Atlanta. They offered him over $140k and 6 weeks of vacation for a standard 40 hour workweek, and he will earn time-and-a-half pay for taking call shifts (said he can earn up to $220k doing this). Keep in mind, this is in Atlanta, a city that is TOTALLY saturated in terms of the pharmacy job market, and yet he managed to get that AA job simply by showing up to his clinical rotation and doing a good job as a student. That's it; he didn't have to get a part-time job, he didn't have to serve as class president, he didn't worry about networking. It's the same situation for basically every other AA student who actually manages to pass and get to clinicals (there is no unemployment rate in that profession).

So this guy managed to get an AA job in a very desirable city without doing any hustling... and yet in the pharmacy field, students are having to resort to going to great lengths to hustle just to get SOME job, anywhere they can find one (forget about having a location preference). Also, the pay difference between pharmacists and AAs (or even general PAs) when you consider how many more weeks of PTO are offered to AAs/PAs, as compared to the meager 1-2 weeks a new pharmacist might be lucky to get. Knowing that there are other programs I could be enrolled in that will lead to a good (better when comparing to pharmacy) job simply by being a good student and not being incompetent during clinicals, I just don't have the motivation to push myself to hustle when the end result is going to pale so much in comparison.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Correct it's temporary and is my hypothesis for why it seems like the job market stagnated or got slightly better at least in Atlanta from 2013-2015 (in 2010 was hearing no jobs in Atlanta speal/ chains didn't want to interview you ). Walmart still starts out new grads at 58 and managers at 60. I make more then 60 at Walmart . I know Walmart pharmacist with >10 years above 65. I know Harvey's pharmacist with 2-3 years at 63.

Just curious -- in your opinion, what do you think is going to happen with the GA job market over the next couple years? Do you think essentially the entire state will reach saturation point soon? Just curious to hear what you think

 

[rxdawg21]

Just curious -- in your opinion, what do you think is going to happen with the GA job market over the next couple years? Do you think essentially the entire state will reach saturation point soon? Just curious to hear what you think

Can't predict the future but I feel like it will only get worse

 

[bulldog1123]

This is in Atlanta, a city that is TOTALLY saturated in terms of the pharmacy job market, and yet he managed to get that AA job simply by showing up to his clinical rotation and doing a good job as a student. That's it; he didn't have to get a part-time job, he didn't have to serve as class president, he didn't worry about networking. It's the same situation for basically every other AA student who actually manages to pass and get to clinicals (there is no unemployment rate in that profession).

Just like your one case for an AA, I can name you two cases for pharm students who had the exact same happen to them in Atlanta. Did their APPE rotation and landed FT 'desirable' gigs after making a solid impression last graduating class. BTW by doing a good job as a student during his rotation is a form of networking, 'hustling', etc. Not all pharmacists will get into the situation these two students landed just like not all AA students will land the position your friend landed. But sure, lets use that as the standard for AA and unemployed students as the standard for Pharm. Makes total sense. Again, the job market isn't great, but for someone who seems very bright from your writing style, you seem very petty for suddenly trashing a field because you found out it wasn't for you after the fact. Not all AA will be using the restroom in golden toilets and not all PharmD grads will be under the I-85 bridge begging for money to pay off their student loans.

 

[PharmerIsMe]

Definitely crazy. I know several people that moved out near vegas after graduation from the SE. I still have found that many peers that have experience have been able to switch jobs/upgrade. Can't imagine how new grads are doing tho.

Here, new graduate in FL without residence swimming in this ocean of hopelessness. No pharmacist experience. I have applied to over 300 jobs, retail and hospital, for over two months. I would move next day anywhere in FL. Only have received one email back.

Have a couple of friends from previous class with residences under their belts...JOBLESS! too.

What is bad is that I have applied to other states (which I do not have license for) just to see how it goes. No answers! One recruiter actually sent me an email stating "I am sorry I can't help you, but we have too many pharmacist applying, God bless you"

Unreal market.

 

[Sine Cura]

This thread demonstrates the case for setting aside some of that student loan debt for relocation purposes (are you really willing to work anywhere?) and paying for licenses and exams, but soon that won't even matter for a lot of graduates. The numbers are daunting, both sheer number of graduates and the burden of student loans.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I get emails every day from different recruiters - there are jobs out there - I applied for a bunch of jobs in FL - and got a few interviews - (yes I have experience, and yes, I didn't the response I would have gotten 10 years ago - but I still got responses) -
here are 69 jobs - several say new grads welcome

http://www.comphealth.com/pharmacy

 

[Saiyo]

Have a couple of friends from previous class with residences under their belts...JOBLESS! too.

People with residencies are jobless? Are they willing to move? Most jobs I see have residency as the golden ticket in...

Hope yall can land that first job soon- to have any value in this market you need to have some experience....and even after you get experience but don't have a residency you won't be competitive for some jobs.....

 

[angiepharm]

People with residencies are jobless? Are they willing to move? Most jobs I see have residency as the golden ticket in...

Hope yall can land that first job soon- to have any value in this market you need to have some experience....and even after you get experience but don't have a residency you won't be competitive for some jobs.....

yeah, the thing i've found is you can find a job with a residency, it just might not be what you want or where you want. a residency is still the ticket to open a lot of doors that would otherwise be closed. once you get a residency and experience, you're good. again its not a guarantee, but you'll find A job, maybe just not what or where you want.

a good laugh i found was a staff clinical pharmacist position this week that wanted a pgy1 and pgy2, or pgy1 with board certification. i mean all that just for a staff/clinical position?

 

[PAtoPharm]

Just like your one case for an AA, I can name you two cases for pharm students who had the exact same happen to them in Atlanta. Did their APPE rotation and landed FT 'desirable' gigs after making a solid impression last graduating class. BTW by doing a good job as a student during his rotation is a form of networking, 'hustling', etc. Not all pharmacists will get into the situation these two students landed just like not all AA students will land the position your friend landed. But sure, lets use that as the standard for AA and unemployed students as the standard for Pharm. Makes total sense. Again, the job market isn't great, but for someone who seems very bright from your writing style, you seem very petty for suddenly trashing a field because you found out it wasn't for you after the fact. Not all AA will be using the restroom in golden toilets and not all PharmD grads will be under the I-85 bridge begging for money to pay off their student loans.

Even though it is possible for a new pharmacy graduate to get a job, there is no way it will be one offering a salary of $140k/year, 6 weeks of vacation, and a competitive benefits package. Also, it would be a different story if the job market was on track to becoming "only" a little saturated, such as if pharmacy schools were graduating 10% more pharmacists than there are jobs (I.e., in this scenario, you'd only need to make sure you weren't one of the bottom 10-15% of students in your graduating class). Unfortunately, this isn't the case; keep in mind that even here in undesirable GA, schools are on track to graduating 3+ times as many pharmacists as there are annual job openings (I believe I posted a link to a Reddit thread a couple weeks ago that listed the average annual number of pharmacist job openings for each state -- the number is something like 260 for GA, but the 4 schools here are graduating 2-3x that many).

So anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that in consideration of current job market trends and future projections, a pharmacy school graduate won't just have to be a competitive applicant to get a job -- they'll have to outcompete literally 60% or more of their newly-licensed colleagues or complete a residency just to get any job. In other words, it's not necessarily the fact that there is an oversupply... it's the magnitude of the oversupply, especially as it will be in the future.

It's like Sine Cura alludes to in his post above -- when the numbers are looking this bad, there's no way to deny acknowledging the fact that many, many graduates will be unable to find jobs.

As an aside, another thing that disappoints me about all this is that people in this profession seem to be suggesting that if someone doesn't do enough hustling, networking, etc. to get a job, then their failure is on them and they should've known better. Apparently, getting through school and graduating with decent grades aren't enough, and if someone doesn't engage in enough of the other crap to make themselves more competitive than everyone else, then they deserve to suffer. In every other health professions field (for now), simply getting through school and graduating is all it takes to get a job, even if it might not be the best one.

 

[steveysmith54]

If I don't get accepted to PA/AA school, then I will do whatever I need to do to make myself competitive to get in (full-time healthcare job, take grad-level classes, whatever), or apply to the nuclear med tech program. I hear what you are saying about getting an intern job, holding leadership positions, etc., but I'm just not motivated enough to do all those things to get the relatively paltry ROI at the end of it all. I decided to text a former AA school classmate of mine earlier today, and he said he received a job offer from an anesthesia group in a very desirable area of Atlanta. They offered him over $140k and 6 weeks of vacation for a standard 40 hour workweek, and he will earn time-and-a-half pay for taking call shifts (said he can earn up to $220k doing this). Keep in mind, this is in Atlanta, a city that is TOTALLY saturated in terms of the pharmacy job market, and yet he managed to get that AA job simply by showing up to his clinical rotation and doing a good job as a student. That's it; he didn't have to get a part-time job, he didn't have to serve as class president, he didn't worry about networking. It's the same situation for basically every other AA student who actually manages to pass and get to clinicals (there is no unemployment rate in that profession).

So this guy managed to get an AA job in a very desirable city without doing any hustling... and yet in the pharmacy field, students are having to resort to going to great lengths to hustle just to get SOME job, anywhere they can find one (forget about having a location preference). Also, the pay difference between pharmacists and AAs (or even general PAs) when you consider how many more weeks of PTO are offered to AAs/PAs, as compared to the meager 1-2 weeks a new pharmacist might be lucky to get. Knowing that there are other programs I could be enrolled in that will lead to a good (better when comparing to pharmacy) job simply by being a good student and not being incompetent during clinicals, I just don't have the motivation to push myself to hustle when the end result is going to pale so much in comparison.

That's great news for your friend. However, you're far from being in the same position as your friend. You carrying a lot of baggage now. If I was on an admission committee, I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole. You're too much of a risk and a liability to consider for an admission spot. If you quit a program after first professional year, which you're on the verge of doing twice, I would loose out on tuition money for that spot. I wouldn't care how well you perform in an undergrad, post grad, upper grad, masters, PHd, JD program, it comes down to character flaws, inability to commit/ finish what you start.

You should drop out of Pharm School. Your expectations and mindset are completely flawed. The days of being able to land a job based on holding a license and degree have ended in 2000. Chains want to hire pharmacists who are assets, you're evaluated on # of RX that you fill, your speed, your ability to promote immunizations, etc. You won't ever make it.

 

[PAtoPharm]

That's great news for your friend. However, you're far from being in the same position as your friend. You carrying a lot of baggage now. If I was on an admission committee, I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole. You're too much of a risk and a liability to consider for an admission spot. If you quit a program after first professional year, which you're on the verge of doing twice, I would loose out on tuition money for that spot. I wouldn't care how well you perform in an undergrad, post grad, upper grad, masters, PHd, JD program, it comes down to character flaws, inability to commit/ finish what you start.

You should drop out of Pharm School. Your expectations and mindset are completely flawed. The days of being able to land a job based on holding a license and degree have ended in 2000. Chains want to hire pharmacists who are assets, you're evaluated on # of RX that you fill, your speed, your ability to promote immunizations, etc. You won't ever make it.

At least someone else sees it like I do. I do think that I won't be able to keep up with ultra-fast prescription verification rates that retail pharmacists are expected to maintain nowadays. I'm the kind of person who needs to do things more methodically and always think about what I'm doing ("ok, so first you do that, then you do that," etc.). My biggest regret at this point is that I bothered with starting pharmacy school back in the fall. I should've given more thought during the summer to applying to PA/AA school. BTW, I didn't quit AA school, they kicked me out. Like I said, I don't have any illusions of getting accepted to a competitive state PA school, which is why I will focus on applying to for-profit programs as well as all the AA schools. Even if I don't get accepted on my first application attempt, I will just work for a year in a healthcare job and re-apply the next year. In a worst-case scenario, I can do a 1 year post-bac program at a PA school and be guaranteed an acceptance to the PA program as long as I complete the post-bac with a certain minimum GPA (a more expensive route but worth it if all else fails). I would rather take my chances on PA/AA schools than continue on a path to a career in which it is inevitable that a massive proportion of its own professionals (40%-50%) will be faced with unemployment. Finishing a program like this just so I can say I finished it is a terrible mentality to have.

My mindset and expectations might be flawed, but there's no way that ~170,000 pharmacists will all be able to out-compete each other for ~90,000-100,000 jobs. If there aren't enough jobs for everyone, then there just aren't enough jobs. It doesn't matter how much all of them hustle or how adept their networking skills are -- there will absolutely have to be a substantial unemployment rate unless something significantly increases demand for pharmacists very soon.

 

[angiepharm]

At least someone else sees it like I do. I do think that I won't be able to keep up with ultra-fast prescription verification rates that retail pharmacists are expected to maintain nowadays. I'm the kind of person who needs to do things more methodically and always think about what I'm doing ("ok, so first you do that, then you do that," etc.). My biggest regret at this point is that I bothered with starting pharmacy school back in the fall. I should've given more thought during the summer to applying to PA/AA school. BTW, I didn't quit AA school, they kicked me out. Like I said, I don't have any illusions of getting accepted to a competitive state PA school, which is why I will focus on applying to for-profit programs as well as all the AA schools. Even if I don't get accepted on my first application attempt, I will just work for a year in a healthcare job and re-apply the next year. In a worst-case scenario, I can do a 1 year post-bac program at a PA school and be guaranteed an acceptance to the PA program as long as I complete the post-bac with a certain minimum GPA (a more expensive route but worth it if all else fails). I would rather take my chances on PA/AA schools than continue on a path to a career in which it is inevitable that a massive proportion of its own professionals (40%-50%) will be faced with unemployment. Finishing a program like this just so I can say I finished it is a terrible mentality to have.

My mindset and expectations might be flawed, but there's no way that ~170,000 pharmacists will all be able to out-compete each other for ~90,000-100,000 jobs. If there aren't enough jobs for everyone, then there just aren't enough jobs. It doesn't matter how much all of them hustle or how adept their networking skills are -- there will absolutely have to be a substantial unemployment rate unless something significantly increases demand for pharmacists very soon.

the thing is that since you don't actually work in a pharmacy, and are still a student you don't have the experience to see the ebbs and flows of the profession. your example of Georgia graduating more pharmacy students than jobs is flawed in that many students go to school out of state to return to their hometown, or move out of state after graduating, rather its for residency or jobs, or want a change. the reason for Georgia or Atlanta's oversaturation is more so the city itself and not the profession if that makes sense. The job market in Atlanta regardless of profession is pretty saturated b/c of people migrating there, in the late 90's early 2000's, a lot of people from the northern states, ie DC, NY, NJ moved down to Atlanta due to the cheap housing market, and Atlanta being a business hub. Then you had many others who moved post Katrina. all of this to say most jobs in Atlanta are completely saturated and have been this way since the 90's.

The other flaw is everyone who graduates pharmacy school, does not go into pharmacy per se. not everyone does retail or hospital. several go into biotechnology, go into law, and get their JD, information technology, or pharmaceutical research, get their MPH also and go the CDC r or even the FDA route.(I know a couple of those) I know a few that work at big pharma, and used their pharmd degree as a way to do research without having to go the PhD route. then you have some who never actually practice pharmacy, such as stay at home moms, or those that are military wives and are overseas, which I know a few of those too

All of that to say, every person graduating pharmacy school isn't directly competing with you for a job. you have to have a glass half full vs glass half empty mindset. and a I know a few PA's too. not all of them are making 140k with all those great benefits. actually all the PA's I know work 2-3 jobs. I do envy them for their job flexability, but most work 14 on 14 off shifts, and use the 14 off days to work their 2nd job. also typically the SE doesn't pay PAs that well. the highest paid I know of are in the NE ie New York, and I know Baltimore paid well. also, it depends on their specialty, so general practice PA's are not making 140k, may 80-90k, to make the big bucks you have to be in orthopedics or cardiology.

 

[gwarm01]

My mindset and expectations might be flawed, but there's no way that ~170,000 pharmacists will all be able to out-compete each other for ~90,000-100,000 jobs. If there aren't enough jobs for everyone, then there just aren't enough jobs. It doesn't matter how much all of them hustle or how adept their networking skills are -- there will absolutely have to be a substantial unemployment rate unless something significantly increases demand for pharmacists very soon.

This is actually what will make the difference. The pharmacy student who got to some degree mill with a 2.3 GPA and <30 PCAT composite, who has never stepped foot inside a pharmacy outside of their rotations, shows no ambition or drive, has the personality of a stone, yet somehow manages to pass the NAPLEX (which is going to become less and less likely as time goes in -- see the numberous 2016 NAPLEX threads) will be among the unemployed.
The increasingly rare pharmacist who has the right mix of intelligence, personality, and work ethic will always be a valued commodity. Too many people expect to under-perform and still have the world handed to them. People with that attitude are going to be eaten alive by their more capable and ambitious colleagues.

 

[Niosh]

I have applied to over 300 jobs, retail and hospital, for over two months.

Are you sure your phone number or email is correct on your applications? Or no other super horrible mistakes on your application or resume? 300 applications with no response seems extreme to me, but maybe I'm really out of touch with job markets.