Florida Schools Application Thread (2008) part 2

[gujuDoc]

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We did get through all the material in our classes at UF. But that doesn't mean all the material was covered. I had a few courses that went something like this: Prof lectures on chapter 7 and part of ch. 8. At the end of lecture, he advises everyone to study chapters 9 and select parts of chapter 10 on his own, as they will be on the test. The next day, Prof lectures on chapter 11 and 12, and assigns ch. 13 as "self-study material." Rinse and repeat. On test day, self study material made up 40-50% of test questions. Most classes weren't like this, but a few were.

At least you were tested on it. that's my point. Our professors not only didn't teach it but they didn't test it so people never even self study learnd it until it came to be MCAT time.

 

[timurx]

Maybe, but at least your professors can get through the material. I would say USF's undergrad is the same way with many classes. I dont think you described anything that was different from USf except that caliber of your students and the caliber of opportunities and fact that your professors mostly get through the material is there. I had a brother who went to UF for biomed engineering and chemical engineering. He's taken most of the premed courses and when he describes his education there and he always tells me he'd not trade that UF education. I remember at in a few summer classes people from other universities like Miami and UF telling me their classes were tougher then ours.

One of the bio 2 classes here was all evolution unlike at UF. Furthermore, the professor used old tests that he didnt' keep so most students cheated their way through the class. For Physics, people were allowed to have cheat sheets so people had a tough time when they had to memorize things at MCAT time. This is the kind of stupidity at USF.

On the topic of SAT scores, the minimum to get in when I entered in 2001 was 970 whereas at UF you have to have at least 1200 for most people and at 1060 at minimum. This is based on the old 1600 scale. So people had lower averages at USF as most people who were there were not the most competitive people in the state.

Not to say we haven't had competitive applicants. I'm just saying there is a reason why UF and Umiami predominate.

Regardless of the strength of the premed program at UF, I think the sheer size of the premed student population basically negates any of these advantages...I know several (and by several, i mean at least 10) fairly to exceptionally smart students who decided to attend UF for undergrad. Fast forward four years later, and I am currently the ONLY one who has been accpeted to an MD medical school among these people...this is a shame because these students could have easily gotten in had they gone somewhere esle for undergrad...currently, most of them are in the process of applying to the islands/DO/masters/ or have switched altogether to some other one of the allied health professions.

I guess my point is what you can base the "strength" of a program on...i honestly do not think the UF premed culture is a healthy one, at least relative to other schools...in a way, the insane competitiveness and riduclous curves only serve to perpetuate a terrible premed stereotype and turn people away from premeds and the field itself.

For those of you who posted above who went to UF and acutally liked it and did well, congratulations...seriously...you've obviously worked very hard and derserve to succeed in this process. But perhaps you've become so acclimated to the unhealthy UF premed atmosphere that you acutally think its normal to have 400-500 people in an auditorium, a professor who will likely never even recognize your face, much less your name, and the totally impersonal, robotic advice given to you by your advisors. And thats just sad.

 

[mdgator]

At least you were tested on it. that's my point. Our professors not only didn't teach it but they didn't test it so people never even self study learnd it until it came to be MCAT time.

Regardless of the strength of the premed program at UF, I think the sheer size of the premed student population basically negates any of these advantages...I know several (and by several, i mean at least 10) fairly to exceptionally smart students who decided to attend UF for undergrad. Fast forward four years later, and I am currently the ONLY one who has been accpeted to an MD medical school among these people...this is a shame because these students could have easily gotten in had they gone somewhere esle for undergrad...currently, most of them are in the process of applying to the islands/DO/masters/ or have switched altogether to some other one of the allied health professions.

I guess my point is what you can base the "strength" of a program on...i honestly do not think the UF premed culture is a healthy one, at least relative to other schools...in a way, the insane competitiveness and riduclous curves only serve to perpetuate a terrible premed stereotype and turn people away from premeds and the field itself.

For those of you who posted above who went to UF and acutally liked it and did well, congratulations...seriously...you've obviously worked very hard and derserve to succeed in this process. But perhaps you've become so acclimated to the unhealthy UF premed atmosphere that you acutally think its normal to have 400-500 people in an auditorium, a professor who will likely never even recognize your face, much less your name, and the totally impersonal, robotic advice given to you by your advisors. And thats just sad.

I actually agree with both of you guys. UF is not for everyone. It's big and unfriendly and intimidating and hard and competitive. Sometimes it is all of these things in excess.
But I agree with gujudoc that, all in all, it's an excellent program for those who aren't too bothered by these things. You're right, guju, I would much rather be expected to know an inordinate amount of difficult material that may or may not have been sufficiently taught, than just not asked to know it at all. Especially if it's something I should know. I also think that certain aspects of UF's program prepare a pre-med better for med school. If I had it to do all over again, I would definitely spend my undergrad years in Gainesville again. But, that said, I am glad that I'll be getting out of that cut-throat environment for med school.

 

[gujuDoc]

I actually agree with both of you guys. UF is not for everyone. It's big and unfriendly and intimidating and hard and competitive. Sometimes it is all of these things in excess.
But I agree with gujudoc that, all in all, it's an excellent program for those who aren't too bothered by these things. You're right, guju, I would much rather be expected to know an inordinate amount of difficult material that may or may not have been sufficiently taught, than just not asked to know it at all. Especially if it's something I should know. I also think that certain aspects of UF's program prepare a pre-med better for med school. If I had it to do all over again, I would definitely spend my undergrad years in Gainesville again. But, that said, I am glad that I'll be getting out of that cut-throat environment for med school.

Yeah a lot of people I know from UF tell me that they didn't mind it for undergrad but for med school they'd rather go to Tampa or Miami or out of state because they want the change of pace and that competitive envt but they were happy that they got the opportunities they got there.

 

[ufgrad00]

Maybe, but at least your professors can get through the material. I would say USF's undergrad is the same way with many classes. I dont think you described anything that was different from USf except that caliber of your students and the caliber of opportunities and fact that your professors mostly get through the material is there. I had a brother who went to UF for biomed engineering and chemical engineering. He's taken most of the premed courses and when he describes his education there and he always tells me he'd not trade that UF education. I remember at in a few summer classes people from other universities like Miami and UF telling me their classes were tougher then ours.

One of the bio 2 classes here was all evolution unlike at UF. Furthermore, the professor used old tests that he didnt' keep so most students cheated their way through the class. For Physics, people were allowed to have cheat sheets so people had a tough time when they had to memorize things at MCAT time. This is the kind of stupidity at USF.

[\quote]

Well, I was a bit harsh with my first post, but I too thought my lecturers would get me through the material. But few of my professors ever did. Instead I got to teach myself, while I heard the professors talk about their kids, pets, vacation, everything else but the actual material. Or even better, I never met some of my professors and was only taught by a TA that was learning the same material along with us.

With my experience, most of my professors hated pre-meds, so asking to get involved in research or letters were out of the question. And I can understand why. Many of the professors have to teach courses that are predominantly filled with very competitive pre-meds. They really only want to mentor future chemists and biologists, and not have to work with pre-meds that are only involved to get the experience as an EC.

As far as EC's, yes we have the best clinical and lab research opportunities available to undergrads in the state. But will you as a pre-med be able to get involved in these? 90 percent chance, NO. And this is because there are too few opportunities available compared to the huge number of pre-meds begging to do them, so being able to get involved in substantial things is unlikely. Even wanting to volunteer to clean glasswear or make gels for the micro lab is really competitive. And again, many researchers there also want to mentor future grad students not pre-meds, so this made getting involved in research more competitive.

 

[ufgrad00]

And yes, we have many students going carib or doing an SMP. Apparently, St. Georges and Ross are the most populare according to the letter office at UF. Even though the number of UF matriculants look large compared to other schools, you have to compare that to the number that applied from UF. I believe there would be the same ratio of matriculants to applicants as the other FL schools.

And as far as being prepared for the MCAT, none of my classes helped prepare me for the MCAT, except for biochem. And this makes sense because they are meant to teach the subject not the MCAT. This is another reason I have a lot of beef with the physics dept. They train you to be deperndent on "cheat sheet" during exams, and this reliance on them only hurt when the MCAT came around.

Another thing I wished was for more clinical volunteering opportunities at Hospitals. And because gville is a mid sized city, you got your choice of shuffling papers at Shands or shuffling papers at North FL regional. This is where some of my friends at UNF really had an advantage, because there were many more opportunities in Jacksonville to get involved in consistent hospital volunteering. And again, even trying to volunteer at shands in gville seems to have become competitive.

A big part of the problem with the competitive environment or working so hard to get involved in research or volunteering as a pre-med, is because of the large number of them. However, we do not have any program for pre-meds, you are on your own. And you definitely do not want to see the pre-med advisor, unless you like to feel inadequate. So getting involved in a student group helped somewhat, but in retrospect they didn't help me to get involved any different than I could have done on my own.

Personally, looking back, I see no advantage or opportunity that UF gave me as a pre-med that I wouldn't have gotten at another FL school (other than 3 championship games 👍 and the name recognition that followed), and I believe I would have done just as well (most likely better) at any other FL school.

 

[gujuDoc]

Wow. I guess I just come across former UF undergrads in grad school and the med school and on here and see the opportunities they got and I regret that we don't have as such powerful opportunities. I know people with multiple publications from UF and yet have ot meet one. I know people who had opportunities to be TAs and see how we never had that. I see how involved your PAMSA is at a national level and see that very few of ours even know what nationals is despite the fact that they pay for nationals. I see how organized your AED is and see how ours was always falling apart no matter how hard we tried. I saw how one of my classmates had a chance to be a med assistant without experience or certification so now when she's come to tampa she was able to get a job yet its tougher for someone like me with no experience to get an opportunity and it just makes me sad sometimes and regret going to USF and not trying harder to go to UF. These are just some examples of why I regret USF undergrad though I love their med school.

 

[gujuDoc]

I guess its just tha I run across the best of the best when I see the kinds of profiles I see coming out of UF.

 

[ufgrad00]

Well, I think a question that could be made is "Why are so many of UF's most competitive choosing to go to USF med, and what is USF doing right to attract them?"

****
I also want to say that I appreciate your opinions and you have been very helpful this application cycle. Your discussions have been great. I am actually looking forward to seeing where you go this year, and I am betting you will get accepted to one of those full-ride spots at UCF.

 

[gujuDoc]

Well, I think a question that could be made is "Why are so many of UF's most competitive choosing to go to USF med, and what is USF doing right to attract them?"

****
I also want to say that I appreciate your opinions and you have been very helpful this application cycle. Your discussions have been great. I am actually looking forward to seeing where you go this year, and I am betting you will get accepted to one of those full-ride spots at UCF.

LOL yeah I hope I get in somewhere anywhere but in fl. would be nice. I actually wouldn't mind being in USF for med school next year cuz I'm already acclimated to this area.

I think what attracts UF students to USF and Miami for med school are the strong clinical experiences especially in the first 2 years the preexposure is there. I also think its the city atmosphere after 4 years in a true college town. Of course there's other reasons too like family related reasons if your have faily that lives in either of those areas and the friendly nature of the staff but I wouldn't say the med school staff is representative of how the ugrad staff is which is why there is a difference in who goes to a particular school for med school and ugrad again amongst other reasons.

 

[ankit999]

how do u guys type so much.. i want to read the last cpl of pages in the thread, but im just to lazy to read all of it.. dang

 

[lettingo]

I never said I thought UF was a bad school. UF gave me a wonderful education (especially considering it was free). I understand that advisers are awful everywhere but at UF they seem particularly negative and uninterested. I guess they get tired of hearing all of us pre-meds whine and moan.

My point is that the pre-med opportunities here are not that great and are not what enables are students to perform better. Like someone mentioned before, the research opportunities are immensely competitive. For my current lab position, my boss had over 50 applications! I first did research in an organic lab and I was offered that opportunity because I was in the top 2% of the class! The clubs suck... they just provide a forum where pre-meds can compare their stats and judge one another.

I believe I could have gotten a great education from any of the Florida schools. For all courses I took, I never went to more than a month total of class. I always taught myself the material. I think what sets UF students apart is the caliber of students who are admitted here. When I think back to high school, there were those students who everyone thought would go to medical school... they all wound up at UF. Then there were those students who wanted to go to medical school (but nobody thought they could really do it) and none of them are at UF.

Don't get me wrong, I love UF. I loved going on interviews and having people ask me where I went to undergrad and replying, "UF." They would always groan and say, "I wish you had said any other school."

 

[vw200405]

I got waitlisted at the UM Miami campus.

Did anybody receive an acceptance to UM Miami
during this week?

Congratulations to everybody who got accepted!!

 

[wally47]

Yeah, I know a couple friends who go to UF undergrad and I recently met some more UF alums and all of them seem very intelligent and enthusiastic about UF med. It's kinda weird how overly excited they are about wanting to go to UF for medical school. I have yet to meet someone from UF that would pick another state school over UF. (maybe my sampling of UF alums is a little inaccurate). Yet these same students also told about the horror stories that arose due to the competitive nature of the premed program. This makes it even more surprising that they still preach the gospel according to UF.

On another note: You guys mentioned how the other schools(USF and UM) give great clinical exposure in the first two years. My question: As much as doing clinical experience may help motivate the students to do well, shouldn't they be devoting their time, wholeheartedly, to learning the science behind it all first? What good is learning how to do a physical if you don't understand why you're performing each step? How can you learn how to come up with a differential if you don't know the questions you should be asking? To me the early clinical exposure just sounds very passive, kinda like shadowing. Furthermore, I would much rather devote my time to studying the books and diagrams and pathways and ect... so that when I see a patient I will have at least some knowledge of their disease and prognosis. Not to mention, at the end of two years I won't be reading the material for the first time when studying for step 1. I just wouldn't feel comfortable without the knowledge first. Imagine if a patients asks "why are you running this test instead of that one?" and you realize you won't be learning about that until next semester.

But, even if early clinical experience gives USF and UM students such an advantage/edge over UF students, the UF students are only two years behind. Since we will be physicians our entire lives, I doubt that a two year head start will be apparent during residency or beyond.

What do you guys think?

 

[nash103]

Hey guys. I'm having a very hard time deciding between USF and UM/FAU-Boca.

I've been weighing the pros and cons of each. Do you guys have any ideas for me to consider?

I REALLY appreciate it!!!

 

[NewAndImproved]

I'm having a very hard time deciding between USF and UM/FAU-Boca.

That's an easy one.

Do you like PBL?

Yes ---> UM-Boca
​

No ---> USF​

 

[nash103]

I actually do like Boca's curriculum better, but I went to UG at USF and my family is here. My brother is a first year there. I think that is important too.

Plus.....my debt would be significantly more if i went to UM.....that has really been the point of conflict for me. I have quite a bit of debt just from UG that I feel I should try to offset a bit.

 

[BrainBuff]

Miami is one of the strongest medical schools in the South East. The clinical exposure that you get while in there is invaluable. Students finish UF, USF and the like and try to go to Miami and that's one of their reasons.

A college town and a mid size florida city will never be able to offer the variety of pathology in the clinical spectrum that Miami, as an international city accepting thousands of patient referrals from Latin America, can offer.

 

[axlaxl1]

At our school, the Pre-Med problem is because, I think, of the talent. Advising is another issue but one of the biggest problems in advising is this. You can be a horrible, non-interested, and uncaring advisor that everyone complains about, BUT if the school has the curriculum in place to produce the best candidates then isn't that what's most important?

The reason why I make this argument is because what is the number one killer at my school is the MCAT. People even with great GPA's take the MCAT and get crushed. What I believe the main reason for that is because the curriculum SUCKS. You almost have to complete a degree to get the proper education to be prepared for the MCAT. Taking classes now, as a senior, I am thinking in my mind, OMG that would of helped with the MCAT. Why in my senior class are these classes stressing these materials now? Same thing can be said about the physics department. HORRIBLE, math math math math math done with a calculator. Concept, HAAAAA, yea right. They ignore concept and have no idea what and what not to cover in regards to the MCAT. Even though there is a course for Bio majors and a course for engineers.

The problem with a lot of prof's, and it seems it is this way at other schools from what you are saying, they hate pre-meds. When the fact is they should be uplifting the fact that most people are bio majors because they believe they are pre-health professions and have a dream of obtaining that goal.

In conclusion, the fact courses such as anatomy and phys aren't event required and the bio courses aren't taught to greater completion in terms of material covered, I feel this is by far the biggest problem with the curriculum an hence the horrible MCATS. Coupled with sub-par students and the problem is only compounded. ERRRRrrrr. What can be done to make the process better?

 

[UFMed]

I actually do like Boca's curriculum better, but I went to UG at USF and my family is here. My brother is a first year there. I think that is important too.

Plus.....my debt would be significantly more if i went to UM.....that has really been the point of conflict for me. I have quite a bit of debt just from UG that I feel I should try to offset a bit.

I think you answered your own question nash... go to USF. Having family and a brother one year ahead of you will create a supportive network that will make these next few years more comfortable. Plus, you'll have less debt.

 

[axlaxl1]

Yeah, I know a couple friends who go to UF undergrad and I recently met some more UF alums and all of them seem very intelligent and enthusiastic about UF med. It's kinda weird how overly excited they are about wanting to go to UF for medical school. I have yet to meet someone from UF that would pick another state school over UF. (maybe my sampling of UF alums is a little inaccurate). Yet these same students also told about the horror stories that arose due to the competitive nature of the premed program. This makes it even more surprising that they still preach the gospel according to UF.

On another note: You guys mentioned how the other schools(USF and UM) give great clinical exposure in the first two years. My question: As much as doing clinical experience may help motivate the students to do well, shouldn't they be devoting their time, wholeheartedly, to learning the science behind it all first? What good is learning how to do a physical if you don't understand why you're performing each step? How can you learn how to come up with a differential if you don't know the questions you should be asking? To me the early clinical exposure just sounds very passive, kinda like shadowing. Furthermore, I would much rather devote my time to studying the books and diagrams and pathways and ect... so that when I see a patient I will have at least some knowledge of their disease and prognosis. Not to mention, at the end of two years I won't be reading the material for the first time when studying for step 1. I just wouldn't feel comfortable without the knowledge first. Imagine if a patients asks "why are you running this test instead of that one?" and you realize you won't be learning about that until next semester.

But, even if early clinical experience gives USF and UM students such an advantage/edge over UF students, the UF students are only two years behind. Since we will be physicians our entire lives, I doubt that a two year head start will be apparent during residency or beyond.

What do you guys think?

I don't know wally, I believe clinical exposure has a lot to do with this. Lets be honest we are all geniuses but not rocket scientist. Going in to help people under the guise of a mentor can not be a bad thing. Book work in medical school is certainly not the end all. W will never know every system with every pathology and treatment for every disease in 2 years, hence all the schooling afterwards and term "specialty." To be honest, the book work in the begging is mostly to build your basis of understanding and prepare you for a step one exam. I am sure the clinical exposure, and UF does have some too to be fair, will provide a greater insight to what might or might not yet be learned in the class room.

I dunno my two cents. I am excited about volunteering in the community.

 

[RSAgator]

I honestly don't understand how you can fault a school for having a competitive program. UF is a competitive school, it's only natural they would have competitive students. If you aren't doing well in classes, work harder. If you work your hardest and still don't do well, maybe you just weren't meant to get the A. You should be at a point where you realize that no matter how much you work at some things, other people will always be better, and you need to realize that some people just weren't meant to go to med school. Things aren't going to get any easier.

That being said, I agree in large part with what you've said about UF. The classes are big, the pre-meds are super competitive, and in general professors don't like pre-meds largely because professors care more about people learning the material than people trying to squeeze out every point on an exam. I have seen no shortage of research opportunities though and we must be thinking of different schools because the large number of research opportunities was something that always impressed me.

While you need to take initiative and need to work hard to get meaningful opportunities, there's no shortage of opportunities and there's nothing wrong with working hard.

As for why most people from UF wind up going to USF or UM, a lot of the people I've spoken to simply didn't get into UF, while a lot of others simply wanted a change of pace. I guess at the end of the day your mileage will vary.

 

[UFMed]

Many of the above posts are focusing on the horror & inadequacy of UG premed programs. Every school is going to have these problems; competitive students gunning for a few, selective spots; professors that are indifferent to your aspiring goals; lack of good advice/guidance from a mentor; and fairly big classes. I don't see how we can argue which UG has it worst since most of us have only attended one or the other(s). Premed programs everywhere are going to suffer from these common ailments. To each of us we are going to be overly critical of our programs and vent how they didn't deliver. Yet most of us did get in somewhere and will be prepared to be successful in medical school. The programs couldn't have been so bad.

 

[UFMed]

I honestly don't understand how you can fault a school for having a competitive program. UF is a competitive school, it's only natural they would have competitive students. If you aren't doing well in classes, work harder. If you work your hardest and still don't do well, maybe you just weren't meant to get the A. You should be at a point where you realize that no matter how much you work at some things, other people will always be better, and you need to realize that some people just weren't meant to go to med school. Things aren't going to get any easier.

That being said, I agree in large part with what you've said about UF. The classes are big, the pre-meds are super competitive, and in general professors don't like pre-meds largely because professors care more about people learning the material than people trying to squeeze out every point on an exam. I have seen no shortage of research opportunities though and we must be thinking of different schools because the large number of research opportunities was something that always impressed me.

While you need to take initiative and need to work hard to get meaningful opportunities, there's no shortage of opportunities and there's nothing wrong with working hard.

As for why most people from UF wind up going to USF or UM, a lot of the people I've spoken to simply didn't get into UF, while a lot of others simply wanted a change of pace. I guess at the end of the day your mileage will vary.

Very well said-

 

[axlaxl1]

Many of the above posts are focusing on the horror & inadequacy of UG premed programs. Every school is going to have these problems; competitive students gunning for a few, selective spots; professors that are indifferent to your aspiring goals; lack of good advice/guidance from a mentor; and fairly big classes. I don't see how we can argue which UG has it worst since most of us have only attended one or the other(s). Premed programs everywhere are going to suffer from these common ailments. To each of us we are going to be overly critical of our programs and vent how they didn't deliver. Yet most of us did get in somewhere and will be prepared to be successful in medical school. The programs couldn't have been so bad.

I think you are missing the fact that while UF has avg about 200 medical students per year, our school has avg about 7. HORRIBLE.

 

[wally47]

#1 factor is Reputation = gets the great standardized test takers(high SAT/ACT)

Ergo better MCAT scores and Medical school acceptances (UM and UF undergrads)

This can't be changed without upping the schools reputation!!
Which depends on so many factors it would take years to actually see any jump.

That being said there will still be some "diamonds in the rough" like axl and I. Granted who knows what could have happened if we had gone to more competitive programs. Are GPA's might have been slaughtered.

 

[UFMed]

I think you are missing the fact that while UF has avg about 200 medical students per year, our school has avg about 7. HORRIBLE.

That sucks- but I know where you're coming from... I went to UCF. Not many top acceptances either- but it's not the school's fault. In fact, I couldn't say anything negative about UCF because I really excelled there and I think many others did as well. Maybe that'll change soon with a giant influx of premeds-

 

[gplex86]

I went to middle school and high school in south Florida and ran all the way to University Michigan for college. Let someone else have the damn bright futures scholarship.

It was a choice that paid off greatly, even if it put me deep in debt.

At Michigan we had a tight-knit campus, professors who were very approachable, and reasonable class sizes. Tons of clinical and research opportunities. We do very well getting into med school.

Floridians need to understand that there is, in fact, a world outside of that state. I always felt like I was being pressured to stay and I don't know where all the Florida pride comes from.

 

[axlaxl1]

I went to middle school and high school in south Florida and ran all the way to University Michigan for college. Let someone else have the damn bright futures scholarship.

It was a choice that paid off greatly, even if it put me deep in debt.

At Michigan we had a tight-knit campus, professors who were very approachable, and reasonable class sizes. Tons of clinical and research opportunities. We do very well getting into med school.

Floridians need to understand that there is, in fact, a world outside of that state. I always felt like I was being pressured to stay and I don't know where all the Florida pride comes from.

I am not from Florida and I have Florida pride because in the very least it is a state that trys very very hard. Not to mention it is a very populous state.

 

[gplex86]

I am not from Florida and I have Florida pride because in the very least it is a state that trys very very hard. Not to mention it is a very populous state.

From what I saw, there were generally three kinds of people in the West Palm area: retirees (self-explanatory), younger families with two Mercedes in the driveway and an obligatory pool, and southerners who are very angry about the Yankee's encroachment.

I didn't like any one of them. I think Michiganders are much friendlier, grounded people. They just need more jobs.

 

[mikedc813]

I went to middle school and high school in south Florida and ran all the way to University Michigan for college. Let someone else have the damn bright futures scholarship.

It was a choice that paid off greatly, even if it put me deep in debt.

At Michigan we had a tight-knit campus, professors who were very approachable, and reasonable class sizes. Tons of clinical and research opportunities. We do very well getting into med school.

Floridians need to understand that there is, in fact, a world outside of that state. I always felt like I was being pressured to stay and I don't know where all the Florida pride comes from.

I grew up in Florida and left to Massachusetts for college, but ended up coming home for med school and will stay in Florida for residency. I agree that there are benefits to leaving your home state and seeing another part of the country, but I don't know why you have such bitterness towards Florida. Why can't people be happy to stay in-state and eventually practice medicine here? I know that Michigan is a strong program, but MANY people are equally happy with their Florida experience. I just don't understand the motivation behind your post... I never felt pressured to stay in Florida and did so because I enjoy being here.

 

[Jennifer5109]

I went to middle school and high school in south Florida and ran all the way to University Michigan for college. Let someone else have the damn bright futures scholarship.

It was a choice that paid off greatly, even if it put me deep in debt.

At Michigan we had a tight-knit campus, professors who were very approachable, and reasonable class sizes. Tons of clinical and research opportunities. We do very well getting into med school.

Floridians need to understand that there is, in fact, a world outside of that state. I always felt like I was being pressured to stay and I don't know where all the Florida pride comes from.

I did exactly the same thing. I went to a small liberal arts college and yes I am in debt now, but I wouldn't trade the experience. All my science professors were very supportive and even let me design my own classes in the form of independent studies. And when it came time to get my letters of recommendation I was easily able to obtain them. There is something to be said about being in a non-competitive environment. Actually, I took Ochem II over the summer at USF and it was a whole different world for me. I had never had a TA or been in a class with so many students. To be truthful though I found the class to be very easy and I think this is because I got such a good foundation at my school.

 

[greg1184]

I don't know why you have such bitterness towards Florida. Why can't people be happy to stay in-state and eventually practice medicine here? Michigan is a strong program, but MANY people are equally happy with their Florida experiences. I just don't understand the motivation behind your post.

 

[gujuDoc]

From what I saw, there were generally three kinds of people in the West Palm area: retirees (self-explanatory), younger families with two Mercedes in the driveway and an obligatory pool, and southerners who are very angry about the Yankee's encroachment.

I didn't like any one of them. I think Michiganders are much friendlier, grounded people. They just need more jobs.

You can have the cold weather for all I care. One area of Fl. is not representative of the whole state


What you just described sounds a lot like Bradenton but it sure as hell is a far cry from what Tampa is after having lived there for 7 years. West Palm, Sarasota, Bradenton, and other certain commmunities like that are retirement communities with a lot of wealthy people but most portions of Fl. are not as much like that so much as they are southern like Lakeland, North Fl. near Pensacola and by southern I mean they have that rural feel to them of small town where everyone knows everyone but not everyone is wealthy.

In the few cities we have, Miami, Tampa, and Orlando there is tons of diversity and far from that feel you have described.

 

[gujuDoc]

Yeah, I know a couple friends who go to UF undergrad and I recently met some more UF alums and all of them seem very intelligent and enthusiastic about UF med. It's kinda weird how overly excited they are about wanting to go to UF for medical school. I have yet to meet someone from UF that would pick another state school over UF. (maybe my sampling of UF alums is a little inaccurate). Yet these same students also told about the horror stories that arose due to the competitive nature of the premed program. This makes it even more surprising that they still preach the gospel according to UF.

On another note: You guys mentioned how the other schools(USF and UM) give great clinical exposure in the first two years. My question: As much as doing clinical experience may help motivate the students to do well, shouldn't they be devoting their time, wholeheartedly, to learning the science behind it all first? What good is learning how to do a physical if you don't understand why you're performing each step? How can you learn how to come up with a differential if you don't know the questions you should be asking? To me the early clinical exposure just sounds very passive, kinda like shadowing. Furthermore, I would much rather devote my time to studying the books and diagrams and pathways and ect... so that when I see a patient I will have at least some knowledge of their disease and prognosis. Not to mention, at the end of two years I won't be reading the material for the first time when studying for step 1. I just wouldn't feel comfortable without the knowledge first. Imagine if a patients asks "why are you running this test instead of that one?" and you realize you won't be learning about that until next semester.

But, even if early clinical experience gives USF and UM students such an advantage/edge over UF students, the UF students are only two years behind. Since we will be physicians our entire lives, I doubt that a two year head start will be apparent during residency or beyond.

What do you guys think?

A friend of mine has his LCE with a neurologist and told me it actually helped him with some of his neurosci class. Other students say working with patients hands on from the beginning is far different then premed shadowing because they are getting to learn to take histories that they aren't nervous anymore when clinicals approaches in 3rd year. Other similar stories like this is what people say is the value of these exposures.

Mike was saying his early preceptorships is where he learned of his future field: rad onc. otherwise he might not have considered it for residency seeing as they don't do the onco rotation til 4th year and have to decide by end of 3rd year what they want. This is not to say I think UF's approach is bad. I mean its good in its own way too and I'm sure there are some students who would rather have it that way. I'm just saying these are the kinds of things that ppl have said attracted them to USF.

I guess different people have different preferences. I think different schools are like different flavors of ice cream. They are all the same thing with different ideas of how to get the end result.

 

[gujuDoc]

Miami is one of the strongest medical schools in the South East. The clinical exposure that you get while in there is invaluable. Students finish UF, USF and the like and try to go to Miami and that's one of their reasons.

A college town and a mid size florida city will never be able to offer the variety of pathology in the clinical spectrum that Miami, as an international city accepting thousands of patient referrals from Latin America, can offer.

Yeah I def. agree but to be fair, they do have some strong points going for them. One, they have one of the most well known medical centers in Fl. after Mayo, Moffitt and alongside JMH. This means rarer cases or cases that you wouldn't see at other schools' hospitals. Now they also have affiliation with our Moffitt and are building a new cancer institute and have other such things like research working in their favor. But given the choice I'd rather have a city to a college town which is why I'd choose miami as I stated on Team Zissou's thread months ago.

 

[gujuDoc]

I grew up in Florida and left to Massachusetts for college, but ended up coming home for med school and will stay in Florida for residency. I agree that there are benefits to leaving your home state and seeing another part of the country, but I don't know why you have such bitterness towards Florida. Why can't people be happy to stay in-state and eventually practice medicine here? I know that Michigan is a strong program, but MANY people are equally happy with their Florida experience. I just don't understand the motivation behind your post... I never felt pressured to stay in Florida and did so because I enjoy being here.

Your post brings up a good point. A lot of people I grew up with are moving back to Fl. Many of the south indian kids who've gotten married have even moved back to the town we all grew up in back to their parents side of town. What's even more surprising is these were girls and not guys. usualy girls go to where their husband's family lives but they convinced their hubbies to move near their parents. A lot of people speak bad about the place they grew up but when it comes down to it many times people do move back at some point or start getting home sick.

 

[Jennifer5109]

Your post brings up a good point. A lot of people I grew up with are moving back to Fl. Many of the south indian kids who've gotten married have even moved back to the town we all grew up in back to their parents side of town. What's even more surprising is these were girls and not guys. usualy girls go to where their husband's family lives but they convinced their hubbies to move near their parents. A lot of people speak bad about the place they grew up but when it comes down to it many times people do move back at some point or start getting home sick.

I agree with your post. I never knew how much I liked Florida until I left. Granted I enjoyed my college experience and I'm glad I had those years away from home. Now I'm able to appreciate Tampa. I had always thought Tampa was a boring city and then I moved to a VERY small city and I found a whole new meaning for boring.

 

[gujuDoc]

I agree with your post. I never knew how much I liked Florida until I left. Granted I enjoyed my college experience and I'm glad I had those years away from home. Now I'm able to appreciate Tampa. I had always thought Tampa was a boring city and then I moved to a VERY small city and I found a whole new meaning for boring.

Yeah a lot of these girls who came back went to up north places and found they didn't like the cold weather or the nature of the north too much. I also think fl. has grown a lot since the 80s when we first moved here. I remember a bradenton where the majority of the town was orange trees along the road leading to the interstate, cow fields and pastures by my house, and very few shopping centers. Now there's more elementary schools, 2 more highschools then when I started highschool, several more shopping plazas and apartments and housing communities. Roads have been widely expanded and the town has just changed so much. Heck, now we have a DO school here. Who would have thought there would be a day when therewas a med school in Bradenton of all places??

Tampa has also changed a lot from that time too. I mean I've heard that BBD was pretty much like I just described bradenton of old times. Now its more developed. Same with other parts of Tampa. I mean the indo community has just increased so much in the last several years from new Temples to new indan restaurants and indian grocery stores, dance schools and music schools for classical indian music and dance, greater increases in the number of members in different indian organizations in the community and on campus. That's just from my cultural stand point but one could argue the same for other groups as well. Research centers all over campus that are popping up and greater amounts of students coming to USF each year are also a highlight of Tampa. There's so much more. So I think its hard to use our past to say what Fl. will be like in the future.

 

[Jennifer5109]

Yeah a lot of these girls who came back went to up north places and found they didn't like the cold weather or the nature of the north too much. I also think fl. has grown a lot since the 80s when we first moved here. I remember a bradenton where the majority of the town was orange trees along the road leading to the interstate, cow fields and pastures by my house, and very few shopping centers. Now there's more elementary schools, 2 more highschools then when I started highschool, several more shopping plazas and apartments and housing communities. Roads have been widely expanded and the town has just changed so much. Heck, now we have a DO school here. Who would have thought there would be a day when therewas a med school in Bradenton of all places??

Tampa has also changed a lot from that time too. I mean I've heard that BBD was pretty much like I just described bradenton of old times. Now its more developed. Same with other parts of Tampa. I mean the indo community has just increased so much in the last several years from new Temples to new indan restaurants and indian grocery stores, dance schools and music schools for classical indian music and dance, greater increases in the number of members in different indian organizations in the community and on campus. That's just from my cultural stand point but one could argue the same for other groups as well. Research centers all over campus that are popping up and greater amounts of students coming to USF each year are also a highlight of Tampa. There's so much more. So I think its hard to use our past to say what Fl. will be like in the future.

My family moved to Tampa during the 80s too. Actually, my dad originally moved here to work at USF. I remember running around huge open fields there as a kid. Now those open field are gone and there are buildings and parking garages. USF even had a really cool cross country course and that had to be done away with to make room for the growing expansion. And BBD was considered the boonies. There was farmland and Tampa Palms had just started to grow. I've been excited to see how diverse the culture has become. I'm particularly excited that so many ethnically diverse restaurants have popped up!

 

[MossPoh]

I was born in Florida and lived here for like 5 years fulltime before moving to the midwest through to high school and then my family came back. I went to school in PA and am now back in Florida doing premed stuff. I have seen a lot of people from Florida go up north and tank. They blame weather and personalities most of the time. Part of that is true, as I have noticed how odd some of the people here seem to me now. I did also notice that many of the kids that went up north were vastly underprepared academically for college. I'm not making fun of them, I was too, but it leads to almost a disproportionate disdain for the region and a shifting of the blame. The florida education system is really not doing so hot. There are lots and lots of things that are wrong with Florida, and I feel like they are trying to chase me away from wanting to practice medicine here. Everything from the ridiculous licensing procedure to the ridiculous malpractice insurance. Not to mention, (a little bit of the hippy in me I guess) I'm really frustrated with this crazy amount of haphazard growth in all regions. The true florida to me doesn't involve massive urban sprawl, 16 publix stores, 14 malls and 26 golf courses. It involves the rivers and springs (which one used to be able to see to the bottom of before the dairy farms and other things got in there), the diverse wildlife habitat, good fishing and beautiful clean beaches. I'm also frustrated with the amount of fraud that takes place in south Florida. Ever try finding some trustworthy contractors? It is frickin impossible. North florida isn't as bad, but they def. are good ol' boys and operate on a different time scale.

I don't hate Florida, and I want to make it better, but there are tons of things that need to change here. The florida public university system is damn near in shambles. We are 50th in the US with Student/Teacher ratio, and 49 is not even close. The bright futures thing really needs to be refined. Everyone and their mother gets it now, and I have a hard time believing this many people really have a bright future. To put things in perspective, I grew up in Indiana. I'd venture to say that people make a lot less money there overall, and the major public schools (IU and Purdue) are both on par if not more expensive than Florida schools. The major scholarship was the "Eli Lily Scholarship" which was full tuition paid for and a monthly stipend with the requirement the school is in indiana, and I THINK you have to stay there for a certain number of years. Only 2 people per county got that scholarship. It was a pretty rigorous process with interviews and what not too.

The tuition does need to be raised a bit. I hear floridians b!tch about tuition all the time without any idea of what it is like in most other states at most other schools. (I was paying upwards of 33,000 by my senior year. It started much lower than that) You will still be able to go to college...and god forbid have nicer facilities. They also need to start limiting enrollment a bit. They'll actually have to deny some people. This is all a HUGE tangent I know but yea....I really don't even know why I said it actually. Just a rant. Sorry.

UF, FSU, UCF, FIU, FAU and whoever else all offer perfectly fine educations that'll prepare you for a medical school somewhere. UF is by far the largest, and tends to harbor a different personality than FSU, which is probably one reason for the whole rival thing. The only reallllllly neurotic gunner premeds I've met here have had some vendetta since getting rejected by UF. All of these schools have their pros and cons when you put school pride aside. I don't believe there is some magic key to med school besides working your hardest, doing your best, and staying dedicated.

 

[Hopingnpraying]

Hey completely unrelated question here.

To those with friends or know people at UF med school:

How do people at UF med school study? Do people mostly study in groups or do they tend to go home and study on their own?

Just trying to get a feel on the environment there...

 

[gujuDoc]

Hey completely unrelated question here.

To those with friends or know people at UF med school:

How do people at UF med school study? Do people mostly study in groups or do they tend to go home and study on their own?

Just trying to get a feel on the environment there...

My MS I friend mostly studies on her own but she has a few friends who she studies with as well.

 

[D-Bone]

🙂

 

[mdgator]

I think you are missing the fact that while UF has avg about 200 medical students per year, our school has avg about 7. HORRIBLE.

200+!!! Is this number accurate? Even though I sat through the packed lectures with 300 students, for a class that had 2 sections, on a regular basis, I would never have guessed we pumped out 200 successful applicants per year! Man, no wonder some of those classes were so hard.

 

[axlaxl1]

200+!!! Is this number accurate? Even though I sat through the packed lectures with 300 students, for a class that had 2 sections, on a regular basis, I would never have guessed we pumped out 200 successful applicants per year! Man, no wonder some of those classes were so hard.

LOL am I wrong. I Believe it is more Like 176) But this is what REL posted.

 

[mdgator]

176 is still a lot!

 

[xiaoyi666]

Many of the above posts are focusing on the horror & inadequacy of UG premed programs. Every school is going to have these problems; competitive students gunning for a few, selective spots; professors that are indifferent to your aspiring goals; lack of good advice/guidance from a mentor; and fairly big classes. I don't see how we can argue which UG has it worst since most of us have only attended one or the other(s). Premed programs everywhere are going to suffer from these common ailments. To each of us we are going to be overly critical of our programs and vent how they didn't deliver. Yet most of us did get in somewhere and will be prepared to be successful in medical school. The programs couldn't have been so bad.

School's premed advisor disappeared after fall semester. Quite a significant amount of pre-meds still don't even know about it. Our new pre-med advisor was our old pre-law advisor. Her advice for my waitlist situation was "don't send updates" and don't call, just wait.....pretty much goes against every advice ive ever heard.

 

[D-Bone]

UF class size is ~135. Where are you people getting these rediculous numbers from? If anyone is concerned, call Robyn and ask her the class size.

 

[gujuDoc]

UF class size is ~135. Where are you people getting these rediculous numbers from? If anyone is concerned, call Robyn and ask her the class size.

They were referring to one of 2 things:

Number of people that get into a medical school in the states per year that are UF alum

or


Number of people who are accepted including those who decided to matriculate elsewhere.

My bet is on the former since we have been discussing the first situation ad nauseaum on here.