PhD/PsyD Florida Tech Psy.D. Versus Nova Southeastern University Psy.D.

[Mogwai2017]

Hey everyone. I'm new here and I honestly have never posted a thread in my life. I recently applied to both Nova and Florida Tech and so far got into Florida Tech. Nova takes a little longer to get back to people. I'm still in shock that I got into Florida Tech. If Nova were to take me and I were to choose, which program would people with experience with these programs advise me to go? I really liked Florida Tech because of their faculty and small cohort, but Melbourne seemed so small and sleepy. I'm from Miami and am used to living in a big city, so moving to Davie for Nova would not be such a shock for me. Anyway, if anyone could provide any personal insight into each program I'd be very grateful!

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[WisNeuro]

What would the debt loads (tuition + room and board) come out to for each program?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

1. Debt load (tuition, random fees, living expenses, compound interest on loans)
2. APA-acred match rate
3. Research & clinical match

There are plenty of other considerations, but those three things will matter the most when it comes to internship, fellowship, first job, etc. Loans will follow you for a few to 20+ years.

 

[Mogwai2017]

What would the debt loads (tuition + room and board) come out to for each program?

I'm actually not really going to take out many loans. Nova is 123,000 and FIT is about 150,000. That's just tuition. Living wise, I would have an arrangement where I wouldn't pay rent. Also 100,000 of my tuition is going to be covered. It's mostly just the cohort size of Nova that worries me. It's 80 vs FIT which is 20.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'd personally choose FIT over Nova is those are my only options, Nova PsyD does not have a great reputation. Although, I'd also bemoan the loss of 100-150k in compound earnings when placed in a low cost index fund over the course of my working life.

 

[psych.meout]

I'm actually not really going to take out many loans. Nova is 123,000 and FIT is about 150,000. That's just tuition. Living wise, I would have an arrangement where I wouldn't pay rent. Also 100,000 of my tuition is going to be covered.

Covered by whom/what? Is this a good use of that money?

It's mostly just the cohort size of Nova that worries me. It's 80 vs FIT which is 20.

You should also be concerned by the APA accredited internship match rates. Nova's internship match rate kinda sucks.

http://psychology.nova.edu/graduate/clinical-psychology/psyd/clinpsydoutcomes.pdf

It averages out to 58% for the years they reported.

 

[Mogwai2017]

Covered by whom/what? Is this a good use of that money?



You should also be concerned by the APA accredited internship match rates. Nova's internship match rate kinda sucks.

http://psychology.nova.edu/graduate/clinical-psychology/psyd/clinpsydoutcomes.pdf

It averages out to 58% for the years they reported.

The money is from my inheritance. It's supposed to be used for grad school only. As in tuition only. Also I'll deff check that out. At interview day they said it was 84% for this year. Could they actually have lied about that? FIT said it was 100% for this year. Nova has more clinics to work in and a larger population that pulls in from miami and Ft Lauderdale. FIT seems to work with a very small population within the city.

 

[WisNeuro]

The money is from my inheritance. It's supposed to be used for grad school only. As in tuition only. Also I'll deff check that out. At interview day they said it was 84% for this year. Could they actually have lied about that? FIT said it was 100% for this year. Nova has more clinics to work in and a larger population that pulls in from miami and Ft Lauderdale. FIT seems to work with a very small population within the city.

They may have not outright lied, but merely mislead. Some schools will report their overall match rate (accredited + unaccredited) when they should really only be telling you their accredited match rate, the only one that really matters. We won't know until APPIC reports it for the current year. Regardless of that, the Nova PsyD does not carry a strong rep. If those are the only two choices, and reapplying to funded schools with better reps is not an option, FIT would be the only choice in my book.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Wow, tuition cost is nuts.

I'd recommend looking elsewhere and taking on less total debt.

 

[Mogwai2017]

They may have not outright lied, but merely mislead. Some schools will report their overall match rate (accredited + unaccredited) when they should really only be telling you their accredited match rate, the only one that really matters. We won't know until APPIC reports it for the current year. Regardless of that, the Nova PsyD does not carry a strong rep. If those are the only two choices, and reapplying to funded schools with better reps is not an option, FIT would be the only choice in my book.

Thank you for all your insight! I'll definitely continue to weigh out pros and cons.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Wow, tuition cost is nuts.

I'd recommend looking elsewhere and taking on less total debt.

+1.

Just because you have an inheritance intended to pay for graduate school doesn't mean you have to make an effort to attend a school that requires that money to achieve your degree. That just seems like poor planning, but that's my thought for any graduate degree in psychology where you are shelling out anywhere remotely near 100k+, no matter if its cash or debt. I would reapply and look at a broader geographic stretch of schools and work to boost my competitiveness if it were me, given those two options.

 

[Mogwai2017]

+1.

Just because you have an inheritance intended to pay for graduate school doesn't mean you have to make an effort to attend a school that requires that money to achieve your degree. That just seems like poor planning, but that's my thought for any graduate degree in psychology where you are shelling out anywhere remotely near 100k+, no matter if its cash or debt. I would reapply and look at a broader geographic stretch of schools and work to boost my competitiveness if it were me, given those two options.

I've chosen this exact degree because I know what I want and not because I have the money. The money is a plus. Thanks for your opinion, but this was about choosing between two programs. I understand finances are something that weighs into the choice, but I've already explained it's not a deciding factor.

 

[psych.meout]

I've chosen this exact degree because I know what I want and not because I have the money. The money is a plus. Thanks for your opinion, but this was about choosing between two programs. I understand finances are something that weighs into the choice, but I've already explained it's not a deciding factor.

And what exactly is it that you "want?"

 

[Mogwai2017]

And what exactly is it that you "want?"

You seem very concerned about my personal and financial choices. Like I said, I asked about two programs. If I'm choosing a Psy.D. It's because I want to be a clinical psychologist without the heavy duty research that goes into a Ph.D. I'm fortunate enough to be able to obtain that without putting myself into debt.

 

[bmedclinic]

They may have not outright lied, but merely mislead. Some schools will report their overall match rate (accredited + unaccredited) when they should really only be telling you their accredited match rate, the only one that really matters. We won't know until APPIC reports it for the current year. Regardless of that, the Nova PsyD does not carry a strong rep. If those are the only two choices, and reapplying to funded schools with better reps is not an option, FIT would be the only choice in my book.

I checked their table, they werent misleading. Assuming the table is accurate.
Their stats look pretty good, wow at that cost, but I'd choose FIT over Nova.
No disrespect to nova, but since I've been in psych (re: 2001) they've suffered from a pretty terrible rep and not managed to change it.

 

[Mogwai2017]

I checked their table, they werent misleading. Assuming the table is accurate.
Their stats look pretty good, wow at that cost, but I'd choose FIT over Nova.
No disrespect to nova, but since I've been in psych (re: 2001) they've suffered from a pretty terrible rep and not managed to change it.

Aside from their internship match rate, what made their rep so irreparable? I have heard both good and bad about them.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

No disrespect to nova, but since I've been in psych (re: 2001) they've suffered from a pretty terrible rep and not managed to change it.

Their rep in the early '00s was definitely better than now. There seemed to be better quality control and support back then.

Their tuition is up a lot (along with most universities), but their crap funding makes it a much worse value. When I attended tuition was nearly half of the current cost, which makes a HUGE difference. Resources and access to the best profs is far from a given, and while the top students do fine, the ones that squeak by are far different in CV and employability.

It's great that you have personal funding for it, but there are other issues that need to be considered (even though cost is probably my biggest knock against them).

 

[WisNeuro]

In terms of Nova, there is currently a pretty big split between the PhD and the PsyD. In recent years, I haven't seen a single PsyD application from there that we would even remotely consider for internship/postdoc. Some of the PhD apps have been decent though.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

In terms of Nova, there is currently a pretty big split between the PhD and the PsyD. In recent years, I haven't seen a single PsyD application from there that we would even remotely consider for internship/postdoc. Some of the PhD apps have been decent though.

From what I've been told, they've made a point to split out the PhD cohorts, as there were few differences back in the day (10-15yrs ago) besides scope of research and an extra couple of classes (more stats). Definitely check for the list up to date information, but they seem to be going the wrong way since the internship crisis.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I've chosen this exact degree because I know what I want and not because I have the money. The money is a plus. Thanks for your opinion, but this was about choosing between two programs. I understand finances are something that weighs into the choice, but I've already explained it's not a deciding factor.

Its odd to me that 100,000 dollars isn't a deciding factor for you. Not considering that amount of money as a major influence on your choices would be foolish.

People are focused on the cost because it is a relatively straight forward marker of long term outcomes for your success with your newly minted degree, without regard to the quality of the program. It changes the prospects for what your economic situation is when you enter the workforce. Programs with horrible funding (as these have) tend not to be those with the best levels of clinical training. This is born out in the statements you see above from folks who review internship applications (e.g., the clinical stuff you want to do). If you want to pick between two bad choices, you are free to do so but it seems misguided. You seem concerned about 'research duties' for a PhD but this is a misconception. Research training is related to high quality clinical training as a psychologist because it makes you capable of digesting the literature surrounding treatment and all the things that we do as a field. Not every program (or even most programs) requires you to be any sort of manuscript machine. PhD doesn't mean researcher.

This type of question comes up once a week or so and the advice is the same from folks here ("These choices you are laying out seem like bad ideas for several reasons you didn't consider...") and the response is often the same ("I know what I'm doing, answer the question that I asked..."). This is curious since the people who are telling us that they know what they need to know to be informed about the field are not actually in the field.

 

[wtfook]

As people have been saying, if you HAD to choose either of these programs, the best bet appears to be FIT. A much larger proportion of their graduates get placed into APA accredited internships than Nova. Nova's range of non-APA matches ranges from 14%-41%. FIT's is 0-8%. Many post doctoral spots and employers will say in hiring that they want you to have completed an APA accredited internship. While that isn't ALL jobs, why not start yourself with a leg up and get an APA internship? The other factor is just how large the Nova graduating class is. If you have to choose between a bigger cohort vs a smaller cohort definitely go with the smaller one. You get more individualized treatment, people have more time for your needs, and you'll be able to get to know your professors better. This will benefit you for recommendations, classwork, and research opportunities. While PsyD's are not as research heavy as PhD's, APA accredited internships like to see that you are involved in research. It shows them that you have a critical mind for practice and are involved in the field, learning, and constantly updating your own knowledge. You said you were concerned about the location. It is true that being near a bigger city might mean better opportunities but just by looking at Nova's match rate, you can see that even if there are more opportunities their students aren't able to utilize them. Or there are so many that they are flooding the application pool. More low key areas might mean higher need and thus more opportunities for fewer people. Plus as you look under the avatars, several of the people who have commented are verified faculty and psychologists. If they are telling you Nova is having a reputation issue, it's likely they're right. One individual even said they weren't impressed by Nova's applicants. It's probably better to go to the school that will provide you with the experiences necessary to make you a strong applicant for all the many milestones you'll need to reach to get that PsyD. ESPECIALLY if someone was willing to invest that much money in your education and you have to put it into one of these 2 places, might as well put it in a place that'll set you up for better employment 5 years later.

 

[PsyDtoBe3]

If those are your two choices, I would say go with Florida Tech. I think many people here raise excellent concerns re: non-funded programs. However, as you stated, finances are not a concern for you. I always urge new applicants to my program to consider the cost and their goals for the future before committing to taking on a PsyD. FIT does offer research assistant positions in the first year as well as other positions you can obtain throughout your time in the program (tuition remission ranges from $5000-$10000 per year and some also include small stipends of $2000-$3000 per semester on top of that). Not a lot, but something. I'll also add that many prac sites also pay students here. In fact, students in the integrated behavioral health concentration receive funding from HRSA (arpx $12,500 per student, per semester) for completing prac in a medically underserved area or Federally Qualified Healthcare Center. For anyone to say FIT is a "bad choice" with poor clinical training or a questionable reputation is misleading.

Just so you are aware, FIT's match rate is typically at or above the national average. Last year there was 100% match rate. This year the match rate was 92% and I am confident that it will be at 100% after phase 2. FIT will not allow you to apply to non accredited internship sites in phase 1 and it is strongly discouraged in phase 2. I can tell you from interviewing at Nova that they told me "it doesn't matter if the site is accredited, it's becoming more common." That alone should speak to you.

I just matched to my first choice. On interviews, many training sites commented on the caliber of students that FIT sends to internship, especially with regard to assessment. I am beyond happy with the training I have received. Many of my classmates also matched at their number 1 or number 2 sites for internship (all accredited) and at great, great sites--- In fact, most matched outside of the Southeast.

So, overall, yes, it's a big financial commitment. Of course there are risks associated with taking on debt. That is why it's important if you go the PsyD route to pick a program that has a track record of success for it's graduates (whether that be FIT or another reputable PsyD program). I think it's fair for people to urge you to think this through very clearly. However, I obviously disagree that you'd be at an overall disadvantage for picking a reputable PsyD program. Lastly, it sounds like you wont really be taking out many loans so it really should come down to the quality of training, match, and other future related outcomes.

If you have any questions about the program or location, feel free to message me.

EDIT: The match rate this year is once again 100%. All students participating in match this year matched to an APA accredited site.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

If you've got the funds, then match rate is everything.

 

[qwerty729]

Hey everyone. I'm new here and I honestly have never posted a thread in my life. I recently applied to both Nova and Florida Tech and so far got into Florida Tech. Nova takes a little longer to get back to people. I'm still in shock that I got into Florida Tech. If Nova were to take me and I were to choose, which program would people with experience with these programs advise me to go? I really liked Florida Tech because of their faculty and small cohort, but Melbourne seemed so small and sleepy. I'm from Miami and am used to living in a big city, so moving to Davie for Nova would not be such a shock for me. Anyway, if anyone could provide any personal insight into each program I'd be very grateful!

Which school did you end up attending?