FMGs calling themselves MDs

[stat3113]

I noticed that I've seen so many FMGs who call themselves MD when their actual degree is something else (i.e. MBBch, MBBS, etc.) Naturally, we assume they have completed US residencies and are licensed to practice, etc.

Even if their degree is equivalent to our MD, it seems dishonest. Is this practice ethical?

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[shivasHeroLike]

Many states permit a physician who is licensed to practice medicine in a state to use "MD", even if they earned an MBBS, MB ChB or other equivalent medical degree from an international medical school. Some states, however, require licensed physicians who earned a degree other than an MD to submit a second, separate application requesting permission to use "MD".

A recent case in Kansas illustrates the laws concerning use of MD. An oral surgeon who received a doctor of medicine (MD) degree from a medical school outside the U.S. had used the MD initials after his name in his professional practice. The Kansas Court of Appeals and the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts ruled that he could not use the MD initials in his practice because although he was licensed as an oral surgeon, he was not licensed to practice medicine.

 

[Hayden2102]

MBBS and MBChB are the same as MD, so who cares?

 

[pratik7]

worry about yourself and not other people

 

[Vizsla]

worry about yourself and not other people

 

[ChocolateCrazy]

MBBS is equivalent to four years of medical school (schooling before we begin residency) we have here in the U.S.

In foreign countries they also have MDs... but u can get a MD degree only after completing MBBS .

As most FMG just complete an MBBS or four years of school elsewhere and come to USA and do a residency here ... they are surely MDs.
besides they also pass USMLE 1, 2 and 3 just like us!! 🙂

It is just that in other countries u are not forced to specialize in any field. you can have general practice with a MBBS.
I hope that kinda makes it clear.

 

[surferdude123]

this is pathetic...I don't even know why I'm commenting on it.

this topic was started by a **** disturber.

let's get the facts straight. The MD degree is derived from the latin term Medicinae Doctor, or "Teacher of Medicine" It's an academic degree...it's generally completed in 4 years, plus completing PGY training in a specific field after becoming board certified, they are able to practice medicine. The MD is a professional doctorate degree, not a research degree.

The same goes for the commonwealth countries. UK, Australia, New Zealand etc. The MBBS, MB ChB, are EXACTLY the same. They are typically completed in 5-6 years, versus 4. In my opinion, I would rather study in a 6 year program, than a 4 year program, but that's beside this little silly post.

Anyone who has earned the MBBS, MB ChB degrees are ENTITLED to call themselves Doctors. That is set by international standard according to the World Health Organization. Period.

 

[Llenroc]

It's totally ethical.

What's unethical is a boob like yourself ever calling himself doctor, no matter what degrees you've earned.

 

[MossPoh]

Really doesn't bother me... What about the fifth pathway? They can get that switched over to an MD afterwards. I've got greater concerns than titles with my doc.

 

[stat3113]

the issue isn't whether the degrees are equivalent or not. E.g. a D.O. is for all intents and purposes equivalent to an M.D., but they can't call themselves M.D., can they? Why should FMGs be different?

 

[Vizsla]

the issue isn't whether the degrees are equivalent or not. E.g. a D.O. is for all intents and purposes equivalent to an M.D., but they can't call themselves M.D., can they? Why should FMGs be different?

so your issue isnt that they arent qualified/competent to treat patients, its that they are coveting the prestigious "MD" initials?? I think its time for you to move on from this great quandary and focus on something else..

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

the issue isn't whether the degrees are equivalent or not. E.g. a D.O. is for all intents and purposes equivalent to an M.D., but they can't call themselves M.D., can they? Why should FMGs be different?

Even though the DO and MD are both (in the United States) degrees that allow you to practice "medicine". They are taught using different philosophies. However MBBS and MD use the same philosophies

DO = Osteopathic medicine

MD and MBBS or MBChB = Both are equal Allopathic Medical degrees.

This is why someone with an MBBS can use the title of MD, but not a DO.

 

[RaaMD]

Inflammatory post.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

A recent case in Kansas illustrates the laws concerning use of MD. An oral surgeon who received a doctor of medicine (MD) degree from a medical school outside the U.S. had used the MD initials after his name in his professional practice. The Kansas Court of Appeals and the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts ruled that he could not use the MD initials in his practice because although he was licensed as an oral surgeon, he was not licensed to practice medicine.

He attended a US Dental school, and completed a US oms residency. He then attended a fast-track MD program (Antigua) in the caribbean that granted an MD. He did not however after recieving his caribbean medical degree.. 1) write his USMLE and 2) do a year of ACGME residency which is required to register your MD in the state you wish to practice.

The combined MD/OMS programs in the US do not have this problem as they incorporate 1 year of ACGME general surgery.

Anyone who has not passed the USMLE or obtained "post MD" training in the us to register their medical degree is not legally allowed to advertise MD after their name.

However.. if you have completed an allopathic medical degree and passed USMLE/ECMFG and have registered your degree in the state in which you are practicing. Yes, you can advertise as an MD.

👍

 

[Hayden2102]

Agree with all posts in this thread.

Clarifying:

In foreign countries they also have MDs... but u can get a MD degree only after completing MBBS .

In Australia an MD is nothing like a U.S. MD. It is a research degree, very similar to a PhD in the field of medicine. Just so everyone knows.


Also a lot of medical schools here are 4 years.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Agree with all posts in this thread.

Clarifying:



In Australia an MD is nothing like a U.S. MD. It is a research degree, very similar to a PhD in the field of medicine. Just so everyone knows.


Also a lot of medical schools here are 4 years.

That being said.. Australian programs are changing to the North American model. Melbourne is changing their 6year MBBS program to a 4 year grad entry MD program as of 2010

4-year MD (Melbourne)

They are also changing some of their other programs:

4-year DDS (Melbourne)

3-year JD (melbourne)

 

[Hayden2102]

That being said.. Australian programs are changing to the North American model. Melbourne is changing their 6year MBBS program to a 4 year grad entry MD program as of 2010

4-year MD (Melbourne)

They are also changing some of their other programs:

4-year DDS (Melbourne)

3-year JD (melbourne)

That's not quite correct. One university is changing, as an alternative to the traditional Australian model. The rest of the universities in Australia have pretty vehemently said that they are staying where they are, which stands at about half/half undergraduate entry/graduate entry.

And, you do know that JD = Juris Doctor = law?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

That's not quite correct. One university is changing, as an alternative to the traditional Australian model. The rest of the universities in Australia have pretty vehemently said that they are staying where they are, which stands at about half/half undergraduate entry/graduate entry.

And, you do know that JD = Juris Doctor = law?

Yes, I do know that JD is a law degree. I'm simply giving more examples of changes to the North American system. Traditionally Australia has offered the UK LLB as the entry level law degree. Melbourne is changing to the JD.

They are also changing their Vet program to a 4 year DVM that is accredited in US and Canada.


And.. no its not just Melbourne that is changing. Sydney has had a grad entry dental program for the past few years but they are now changing the name to a DDS as well and looking to have US and Canadian accreditation in the next couple of years. 👍


All of these changes are because in 2001 when the UK joined the EU, they cut their licensure agreements with Australia and instead started making more agreements with eastern European countries as per the EU agreement. For example: if you graduated from an australian dental school after 2001, you would have to write a foreign exam to practice in the UK just like a gradaute from any other country.

Australia is now looking to have a reciprocal agreement for its professional programs similar to the agreement the US has with Canada. Its just good for Australians to have more options to work overseas and get high quality professional postgraduate education.

 

[Hayden2102]

Yes, I do know that JD is a law degree. I'm simply giving more examples of changes to the North American system. Traditionally Australia has offered the UK LLB as the entry level law degree. Melbourne is changing to the JD.

They are also changing their Vet program to a 4 year DVM that is accredited in US and Canada.


And.. no its not just Melbourne that is changing. Sydney has had a grad entry dental program for the past few years but they are now changing the name to a DDS as well and looking to have US and Canadian accreditation in the next couple of years. 👍


All of these changes are because in 2001 when the UK joined the EU, they cut their licensure agreements with Australia and instead started making more agreements with eastern European countries as per the EU agreement. For example: if you graduated from an australian dental school after 2001, you would have to write a foreign exam to practice in the UK just like a gradaute from any other country.

Australia is now looking to have a reciprocal agreement for its professional programs similar to the agreement the US has with Canada. Its just good for Australians to have more options to work overseas and get high quality professional postgraduate education.

Yeah that's all correct, but Melbourne is the only university currently changing their medical degree to a system that resembles the US. Australia still remains party undergraduate, partly graduate entry for medicine.

Australia can have reciprocal professional recognition with Canada with it's current structure. It doesn't have to overhaul its structure.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Yeah that's all correct, but Melbourne is the only university currently changing their medical degree to a system that resembles the US. Australia still remains party undergraduate, partly graduate entry for medicine.

Australia can have reciprocal professional recognition with Canada with it's current structure. It doesn't have to overhaul its structure.

I agree with you. 🙂 I'm just pointing out changes that are being made at some of the bigger unis. (I've heard Adelaide.. at least for dentistry is interested in going this way as well). Changing they say will help them with obtaining accreditation.

Vet programs across the country have ALREADY been accredited in US and Canada and they are all BVSc degrees. Sydney, Melbourne, Murdoch, etc.

The standards of education are the same BVSc in Australia = US DVM. You can graduate from an aussie vet school and work immediatly in the US or Canada after you graduate.

Melbourne however is just changing the title and structure to a 4 year grad entry professional doctorate (retaining US/Canadian accreditation).

Most likely for marketing purposes more than anything.

Doesn't matter as much for the medicos because after you graduate from Australia with an MBBS, as soon as you complete your USMLE and get ECMFG certification you are allowed to use the MD title while practicing in the US.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Yeah that's all correct, but Melbourne is the only university currently changing their medical degree to a system that resembles the US. Australia still remains party undergraduate, partly graduate entry for medicine.

Australia can have reciprocal professional recognition with Canada with it's current structure. It doesn't have to overhaul its structure.

Also.. There ARE 6-year medical schools in the US that give both a BA/MD for students right out high school as well.

They just give the MD title instead of the MBBS. But the result is the same.

Sydney's 7-year combined BA or BSc or BMus AND Medical degree program

I reckon the Music - Medicine option would be pretty sweet! Imagine getting a music degree and practicing in the Royal Botanic Gardens right next to the Opera House. 🙂 All the while knowing you're accepted into med.

Music Faculty:
http://www.music.usyd.edu.au/
Building:
http://www.music.usyd.edu.au/friends/visit.shtml


But, if you are going to create more licensure agreements with another country.. it does help to smooth the transition if titles and nomenclature are relatively the same.

 

[Hayden2102]

Yeah those degrees would be pretty sweet. Monash University has a combined Medicine/Law program. Pretty full on 7 years of your life... Most practice as lawyers not doctors too. Big bucks.

 

[mudphudwannabe]

What does it matter? If they've passed step 1, 2, and 3 and jumped through whatever other hoops necessary to practice medicine in this country (and if I'm not mistaken, some of those hoops maybe flaming..), I think they've earned the right to call themselves an MD. As a practical matter, it saves the time and confusion of having to explain to each new person they meet what the letters after their name mean.

As far as the DO question, I think DO's have a special set of skills and a different philosophy of training that deserves recognition. Many people in this country know what a DO is (or at least that it is a medical degree), whereas most would not know what the letters representing a foreign medical degree mean.

The sad thing for me is that you will probably get along just fine with this elitist attitude. If you want to make any friends in this profession, though, I suggest you drop the superiority complex.

 

[GreenShirt]

What does it matter? If they've passed step 1, 2, and 3 and jumped through whatever other hoops necessary to practice medicine in this country (and if I'm not mistaken, some of those hoops maybe flaming..), I think they've earned the right to call themselves an MD. As a practical matter, it saves the time and confusion of having to explain to each new person they meet what the letters after their name mean.

As far as the DO question, I think DO's have a special set of skills and a different philosophy of training that deserves recognition. Many people in this country know what a DO is (or at least that it is a medical degree), whereas most would not know what the letters representing a foreign medical degree mean.

Well, DOs can take the USMLE 1,2,3, finish allopathic residedncy, and jump through all the same flaming hoops. The DO label sticks because AOA, the DO governing body, has foribiden DOs from using the MD designation.

Anywho, the intials that come after your name just represent your degree-granting institution.The intials say nothing about the scope of practice or quality of the physician. There's nothing magical about an MD, there's nothing un-special about the DO, MBBS, MB etc. degree. The letters are aribitrary, practice right is what matters. Those having foreign degrees have found it easier to go by MDs for recognition and they have not been legally opposed by the AMA. DO have been offered the same choice in many states, but for historical reasons the AOA has opposed it.

MD, DO, MBBS, MB, etc. all work hard to earn their degrees and should be proud of them.

 

[Shredder]

Munna Bhai MBBS!! inside ndn joke..

 

[anon-y-mouse]

I noticed that I've seen so many FMGs who call themselves MD when their actual degree is something else (i.e. MBBch, MBBS, etc.) Naturally, we assume they have completed US residencies and are licensed to practice, etc.

Even if their degree is equivalent to our MD, it seems dishonest. Is this practice ethical?

Ok, a FMG explained this to me. When they get their degrees (usually with an internship attached to it), they get an MBBS, which they can practice with (like we can, after an intern year and USMLE Step 3). However, most go on to do a residency in their home country in some particular field, and get awarded the degree "MD", with certificate and all... diplomate basically. So, you'd see things like John Smith, MBBS, MD (ob/gyn) in those countries. This is part of the framework of their system. Now if they decide to interrupt that system, and come here for their residencies, they are for all intents and purposes "MD" based on the way their system was designed.

 

[dutchman]

So what you guys are saying in essence is that "MD" is the ****.

 

[johnnyb255]

Ok, a FMG explained this to me. When they get their degrees (usually with an internship attached to it), they get an MBBS, which they can practice with (like we can, after an intern year and USMLE Step 3). However, most go on to do a residency in their home country in some particular field, and get awarded the degree "MD", with certificate and all... diplomate basically.

Most MBBS (Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery) degrees that come from Commonwealth countries (UK, Australia etc) follow the system Hayden2102 explained- MBBS is the graduating medical degree from university and MD (Doctor of Medicine) is a research higher doctrate that only medical doctors are able to apply for and achieve. The surgical equivalent in many universities is Master of Surgery (MS) or Doctor of Surgery (DS).

Summary
MBBS = Medical degree to practice
MD = Research degree, sometimes 'higher' than Ph.D (depends on uni)

Not sure what title the new University of Melbourne doctoral degree of med and surg will take.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/dp/2006013101

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_dress_of_the_University_of_Cambridge

http://www.otago.ac.nz/courses/qualifications/md.html

 

[VeerTheTIGuy]

I myself am going to be an FMG, and have wondered about this many a time. However a doctor who I was working with, who had trained in India, earned an MBBS, and is now practicing in the USA, explained it to me like this:

Your residency years are considered post-graduate training, and on completion of your PGY years, you are awarded an MD by your residency program. She finished residency in '06, and I believe this is a newer way of doing it, as I also know some older docs who earned MBBS's but who sign an MD.

Honestly, we learn the same stuff, pass the same tests, and do the same residency. Why create more confusion for the patients, having them try to figure out what my MBChB is?

and yes for Munnabhai!!😎

 

[sirus_virus]

I myself am going to be an FMG, and have wondered about this many a time. However a doctor who I was working with, who had trained in India, earned an MBBS, and is now practicing in the USA, explained it to me like this:

Your residency years are considered post-graduate training, and on completion of your PGY years, you are awarded an MD by your residency program. She finished residency in '06, and I believe this is a newer way of doing it, as I also know some older docs who earned MBBS's but who sign an MD.

Honestly, we learn the same stuff, pass the same tests, and do the same residency. Why create more confusion for the patients, having them try to figure out what my MBChB is?

and yes for Munnabhai!!😎

So by your logic, a DO can call themselves an MD after residency. Why are poeple not satisfied with their titles these days? If you have an MBBS, then you have an MBBS. It seems to me like you guys are automatically conceding to the fact that all titles are inferior to MD, which I dont get. If I have an MBBS, I will happily display it next to my name; afterall, that is the degree I was conferred, and it is for all intents and purposes equivalent(better in some cases) to an MD. That will probably save me a lot of explaining to those that think I am simply title snatching.

My other question is: when you start using an MD next to your name because you were awarded an MD by a US residency program, why does the MBBS mysteriously disappear? Why not put MD, MBBS next to your name? That way, the US allo students could also slap MD, MD or 2xMD next to their names too. I think all this is a function of the excess posturing, and prestige hunger we find in medicine. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Miami_med]

I once found a book by a DO, MD. No joke. I wonder what the story was with that one.

 

[Its_MurDAH]

So by your logic, a DO can call themselves an MD after residency. Why are poeple not satisfied with their titles these days? If you have an MBBS, then you have an MBBS. It seems to me like you guys are automatically conceding to the fact that all titles are inferior to MD, which I dont get. If I have an MBBS, I will happily display it next to my name; afterall, that is the degree I was conferred, and it is for all intents and purposes equivalent(better in some cases) to an MD. That will probably save me a lot of explaining to those that think I am simply title snatching.

My other question is: when you start using an MD next to your name because you were awarded an MD by a US residency program, why does the MBBS mysteriously disappear? Why not put MD, MBBS next to your name? That way, the US allo students could also slap MD, MD or 2xMD next to their names too. I think all this is a function of the excess posturing, and prestige hunger we find in medicine. Makes no sense to me.

The only people that think FMGs are "title snatching" are people like you. It is much easier to have an MD next to your name and practice rather than explain to each patient that comes to see you what MBBS stands for, that it is an equivalent degree, and that you are just as qualified as the MD down the street. I think you are getting a little carried away with all your talk of prestige hunger and title snatching.

Chill out.

And no, DOs cannot call themselves MD after residency.

 

[SomeDoc]

I once found a book by a DO, MD. No joke. I wonder what the story was with that one.

Between 1962 and 1974, DO's in California were given the option of changing their degree to MD under California Law. At the same time, the College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons became the UC Irvine School of Medicine. Some in the state who graduated prior to 1962 chose to stick with the original degree, DO, whereas others chose to go with DO,MD, or just MD.

 

[VeerTheTIGuy]

So by your logic, a DO can call themselves an MD after residency. Why are poeple not satisfied with their titles these days? If you have an MBBS, then you have an MBBS. It seems to me like you guys are automatically conceding to the fact that all titles are inferior to MD, which I dont get. If I have an MBBS, I will happily display it next to my name; afterall, that is the degree I was conferred, and it is for all intents and purposes equivalent(better in some cases) to an MD. That will probably save me a lot of explaining to those that think I am simply title snatching.

My other question is: when you start using an MD next to your name because you were awarded an MD by a US residency program, why does the MBBS mysteriously disappear? Why not put MD, MBBS next to your name? That way, the US allo students could also slap MD, MD or 2xMD next to their names too. I think all this is a function of the excess posturing, and prestige hunger we find in medicine. Makes no sense to me.

Like I said, I heard this information from a doc who did it, so I don't know the specifics. Maybe not all the residents got the MD, maybe they did. I guess I'll have to reach that level to find out. The MBBS (or MBChB, in my case) 'disappears' for ease of use. Same reason you wouldn't sign Dr. Sirus, MD, BS. And by this, I don't mean to say that the MBBS is lower, just that the MD is more common and well known. If I decided to practice in the UK, I would just keep the MBBS - everyone knows that there.

 

[GreenShirt]

I once found a book by a DO, MD. No joke. I wonder what the story was with that one.

Would that be the autobiography of Dr. A.T. Still MD, DO? He would be the MD graduate who founded Osteopathy. He's the only person who could legitimately use both sets of initials. Otherwise, as someone mentioned, one of the Californian schools used to be DO, but converted itself into an MD school conferring both degrees upon its graduates.

 

[stat3113]

Its my understanding that AT Still FOUNDED the first DO school, not that he actually earned a DO.

And I still think that its not quite right for FMGs to call themselves MDs. (Not necessarily blaming them as much as the bureaucrats that allow/encourage this to happen.)

If someone earns a BA in Biology, and he writes it as a BS Biology, he will be taken to task for misrepresenting his credentials. The issue is not equivalence of degrees, but accurate representation of the degree you earn. I.e. Harvard and maybe some other ultra-elite schools give AB instead of BA and AM instead of MA. So if I were to start working at Harvard, does that make it right for me to start saying AM instead of MA? No, because that's misrepresenting my credentials. AM leads people to believe I have a Masters from Harvard; regardless of equivalence, thats not the degree I earned, and its not the diploma I have on my wall.

I don't see any harm in forcing FMGs to disclose, John Smith MBBS, instead of John Smith MD. If the degrees really are equal, who cares?

 

[Its_MurDAH]

If someone earns a BA in Biology, and he writes it as a BS Biology, he will be taken to task for misrepresenting his credentials. The issue is not equivalence of degrees, but accurate representation of the degree you earn. I.e. Harvard and maybe some other ultra-elite schools give AB instead of BA and AM instead of MA. So if I were to start working at Harvard, does that make it right for me to start saying AM instead of MA? No, because that's misrepresenting my credentials. AM leads people to believe I have a Masters from Harvard; regardless of equivalence, thats not the degree I earned, and its not the diploma I have on my wall.

what??

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Like I said, I heard this information from a doc who did it, so I don't know the specifics. Maybe not all the residents got the MD, maybe they did. I guess I'll have to reach that level to find out. .

This has nothing to do with "pristige"! It is only to help your patients understand.

No one "gets" a new degree (MD) after completion of residency. What happens is that the state board of medicine allows those who have completed an "equivalent allopathic medical degree" (ie. an MBBS, MBChB, etc) to list themselves as an MD so that the public in the country in which they are practicing will understand (because MBBS degrees are not given by any american medical school).

MBBS = MD = allopathic medical degree

DO = Osteopathic medical degree

👍

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Not sure what title the new University of Melbourne doctoral degree of med and surg will take.

MDDS?

Don't know.. I doubt it though. They've kept to the North American model for everything else:

Law: JD
Dent: DDS
Vet: DVM... etc.

I'm sure they will most likely go with MD. ...anything else would just be pretty silly.

 

[Miami_med]

Between 1962 and 1974, DO's in California were given the option of changing their degree to MD under California Law. At the same time, the College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons became the UC Irvine School of Medicine. Some in the state who graduated prior to 1962 chose to stick with the original degree, DO, whereas others chose to go with DO,MD, or just MD.

Interesting, I didn't know that.

 

[Miami_med]

Would that be the autobiography of Dr. A.T. Still MD, DO? He would be the MD graduate who founded Osteopathy. He's the only person who could legitimately use both sets of initials. Otherwise, as someone mentioned, one of the Californian schools used to be DO, but converted itself into an MD school conferring both degrees upon its graduates.

Nah,

I never read the book, I just saw it. I think it was on some disorder like fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome. I figured that he used both credentials as an attempt to get some "alternative" medicine credibility, though before knowing about the California law, I though that getting two nearly identical clinical degrees seemed a bit much.

 

[VeerTheTIGuy]

No one "gets" a new degree (MD) after completion of residency. What happens is that the state board of medicine allows those who have completed an "equivalent allopathic medical degree" (ie. an MBBS, MBChB, etc) to list themselves as an MD so that the public in the country in which they are practicing will understand (because MBBS degrees are not given by any american medical school).

Thanks for the clarification!🙂

 

[johnnyb255]

MDDS?

Ha, I wouldn't put it past them, though if they do have a MD program it makes that degree mean two things in Australia- from Melbourne a med degree and from anywhere else a research degree.

That said, from my experience people don't know what MBBS stands for anyway, and wouldn't notice a difference. Patients trust 'doctors' to be doctors. I bet a large portion think 'MD' is the doctor degree already- a la putting a notice on after Rescue 911 that '911' isn't our emergency number.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Ha, I wouldn't put it past them, though if they do have a MD program it makes that degree mean two things in Australia- from Melbourne a med degree and from anywhere else a research degree.

That said, from my experience people don't know what MBBS stands for anyway, and wouldn't notice a difference. Patients trust 'doctors' to be doctors. I bet a large portion think 'MD' is the doctor degree already- a la putting a notice on after Rescue 911 that '911' isn't our emergency number.

Like Melbourne.. I've heard that Sydney is changing the title of their dental program (which is already a 4-year grad entry program) from the current BDent to a DDS as well, the architecture program here changed recently from a bachelors to a masters, and I think the physio and and a couple of other programs are changing at Sydney Uni soon too to "professional doctorates". So.. it may slowly start to change across the country you never know.

I don't think it is that big of a deal really.. there are "other" titles for research in medicine than the MD anyways such as the DMSc, which if the MD begins to replace the MBBS here.. then I could see the DMSc start to replace the MD as a medical research qualification.. or alternatively they could just start calling it a "DM" like they do at Oxford. So you could be Jo Blow, MD, DM or Jo Blow, MD, DMSc. 🙂

 

[sirus_virus]

So all this talk about MBBS=MD is premised on the notion that the MBBS was recieved from some decent system. I don't know if you guys know that there are medschools in Sudan handing out that stuff. The argument that labeling foreign doctors with "MD" will help remove confusion amongst patients makes no sense to me either; since that implicitly assumes the patient does not care nor have a right to know where their physician got their medical degree from. I say we call things exactly what they are. BTW, you will get a pitchfork stuck in your eye, if you attempt to make this type of title transition in the UK.

 

[MSHell]

But if you earn a US MD and go practice in the UK, you are allowed to use the MD title even though you have not earned it UK-style. Bonus!

 

[SomeDoc]

I don't know if you guys know that there are medschools in Sudan handing out that stuff.

And there is something wrong with that? By the way, "that stuff" is a medical degree. Open your eyes and get some exposure. After all, I'm not sure I see you wanting to practice in Sudan.

The bottom line is that if an MBBS is qualified enough to pass the USMLE's, and get a residency position in the U.S. in order to practice, then by all means, they are an MD, primarily because the law states that an MD can be legally substituted for an MBBS.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

The whole reason anyone that 'practices medicine' prefers MD after their name is so that the public recognizes they are a 'real doctor'.

I am an MD and have not even heard of this MBBS and other names you are listing... you expect an uneducated contruction worker to know? DO names have a hard enough time. I honestly had no idea that DO was equivalent to MD until I started applying to medical school. Unforuntately, even much of the public is still ignorant on DO=MD...those other titles would really through a loop.

Woman even have a hard time in some parts because I have seen patients that 'just cannot believe' that SHE is a 'real doctor' and not a nurse.


Times are changing albeit slowly...

 

[Cirrus83]

But if you earn a US MD and go practice in the UK, you are allowed to use the MD title even though you have not earned it UK-style. Bonus!

Haha, for real? I've lived in London and I like it there...haha time to abuse my US earned creds!