For all the non-trad females out there

[brotherbloat]

Hello,

I am a 28-year old, married woman who is pre-med and applying this summer for fall '06. I'm starting to think about having kids, though, and I'm wondering about the following question: is it possible to be a good mom and a good med student/ resident or do you have to do both mediocrely?

I'm worried that if I have a baby in med school I'll be so distracted by both that I'll end up doing neither well. For those women with kids in med school/ residency, how has that worked? Have your husbands taken over the child raising? Do you have a nanny?

For me, the thought of a nanny raising my kid/s/ makes me feel a little sick. I know it's the only way with two working spouses who don't have family nearby, but the thought of my child running to the nanny when they're sick/ needy makes me feel sad.

My husband has volunteered to work part-time, but as he's about to finish residency, I don't think it's fair for him to waste his education either, just as I don't want to waste mine by not fulfilling my dreams of a medical education.

What to do? Is it fair to your child for him/her to not have two parents ever around, who are both busy doctors/ med students?

Thanks,

BB

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[DocteurMarion]

I am in the same boat...27 and hopefully will be accepted at 29 or 30 y o...I dont' have kids yet either and I wonder when is the good time.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

I'm 26. I have a one year old and another on the way (due in Novermber). I will be starting med school either when they are 1.5/3.0 or 2.5/4.o years old. I don't think your husband working part time would be wasting his education/unfair. A LOT of female physicians work part time so they can be with the kids. And I think you're gonna have to make peace with the nanny/daycare thing. I recommend checking out books by Penelope Leech. She addresses this anxiety. Ultimately kids know who Mommy is and love her is a special way. It's important they attach to their caregiver but they will never ever confuse you and the nanny in terms of the mother/baby bond. Kids will be fine. I think the real issue is, are you okay with working full time while the kids are small or do you think you'll regret it? I have a lot of fears about it but I know ultimately this is the best thing for me and my family and I'll deal. Other options (put off med school for years, put off kids for years) seemed even worse to me. I also highly recommend going back to school/work when they're a couple months old because when they're newborns they're so much work/so whiny, you'll be GLAD to leave them 8 or 9 hours a day! Gets harder as they get older and cuter... Just my 2 cents. Check out www.mommd.com for a LOT of great input from students, residents, and MDs. Best of luck to both of you!

 

[NY Musicologist]

I'm glad to see this thread--not that I can offer any advice, alas. I would probably be starting med school at 32/33. I was lying awake in the middle of the night the other night, having realized that, not only will it be difficult to find time to have the kids in the first place, how in the WORLD will I be able to save for their educations if I've racked up $200K of my own school debt, which I can't even start paying back until I enter practice at age 40?!

The family issues (time and money to have one!) may be what finally keep me from taking the medical plunge. I want/need a career, but I can't envision my life without children...

 

[adennis]

I am starting med school this fall.. however, my children are already 5 and 8.. so I have a little bit different perspective..

I worked full time for a long time when they were little.. and I hated it... I hated leaving them everyday.. but I also hated my job tremendously...when I went back to school my oldest was in school already and my youngest was in childcare part time... I didn't mind leaving him at all by this point.. not that I didn't miss him.. but more that I knew he would be learning and socializing and I was doing something that I not only WANTED to do, but I knew would benefit all of us.. the entire family...

I think you can do anything that you set your mind to... yes, it's hard... and yes you don't always get to do everything you ever wanted in life.. you won't be June Cleaver most likely...but then again, who wants to be...?

figure out your priorities and then run with it... if you want to have a child and you want them to be first and foremost in your life.. then do that... if you want to be a physician and that's the most important to you.. then do that... you CAN do both... you just have to decide... it's not an either/or situation....

 

[mshheaddoc]

Brotherbloat et all,

As a 26 y/o, I share your sentiment but I take comfort in seeing so many other women who have done it. Whatever happens, God has happen for a reason. If I had a child I would find a way to make it work with my significant other. I actually think it would be easier during med school then residency. Plus age is an issue as well as I would be starting 28 in med school. *fingers crossed* I have no idea right now but its a positive experience. I have read about this alot of MomMD.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there folks,
Being a good mother and physician is not an either/or proposition. You can do both and you do not have to give up one for the other. In my medical school class of 80 which contained about 20 females, 10 gave birth before or during medical school (3rd and 4th year) and some have given birth during residency. You have to plan and you have to have a good support system. I have plenty of good friends that attended other medical schools that either had children or gave birth during medical school. Again, none of these children are in jail or social-service custody for neglect.

If you want to use being a parent as a reason not to attend medical school, you may find that other things may be motivating your decision. There are plenty of jobs outside of medical school and residency that can demand your time and take you away from your children. If you really want to stay at home 24/7, then no job is going to be compatable with parenthood.

In 2005, women can have a fulfilling career and be excellent parents. You have to place your priorities and make sure that you have good support. Medicine and motherhood are not mutually exclusive and going to medical school is not going to shut out everything else in your life. The key to sucess in anything is balance and planning.

njbmd

 

[brotherbloat]

Hi there,

I guess I still have a hard time figuring out how you can be a good mom and med student/ Dr. Both require a ton in terms of energy, patience, and hard work. How can you go do a full day's work of residency (12 hours a day for my hubby whose in residency right now) then come home and study and pay attention to your spouse and take care of your kids? Without running yourself ragged?

Right now, it's just me and my hubby (no kids) and I feel resentful because I never see him. He's always either at work, on call, or studying. If I feel resentful, how would me kids feel with both parents working full-time and one (me) having to study after school/work?

How can this be done? How can you be a good mom and med student/Dr. without running yourself ragged?

I'm really curious.

 

[QofQuimica]

I think that you have to have a lot of support. The two-career couples I know who have kids use grandparents, nannies, daycare, and other such options to take care of the kids. Overall, I don't agree that anyone truly can "have it all." You may want to be a good wife, mother, and doctor, but all three of those are full-time jobs. At most, you can possibly reasonably balance two of them on your own if you don't mind not getting much sleep, but not all three. So if you're going to be a good wife and doctor/medical student, you are most likely going to need someone else to help you raise your kids. Personally, I find that idea to be extremely bothersome, maybe even irrationally so. And I don't know the solution either. On one hand, the idea of staying home to change diapers after having gone through all of this education is repugnant to me. But on the other hand, the idea of having someone else, probably a stranger, play a major role in raising my child repulses me also. Maybe the best solution is to marry a househusband.

 

[brotherbloat]

Yes, Q of Q, I agree with you. I will not have any family support to help care for the kids. My parents will be moving far west; my in-laws have pissed me off too many times and thus I would never, ever want their paws on my kids.

The idea of a nanny bothers my control-freak nature. I guess I could get used to it. But will my kids hate me for being an absent mom?

I want to be a good wife and mother but like Q said, I also have a good brain and don't want to waste it devoting my entire life and soul to cchanging diapers and the like.

I guess it's all the studying that is the crucial point here. I can see working full-time for both spouses, but to throw full-time studying into the mix--that is where the hard choices come in.

For instance, my hubby is brilliant--but he works 12 hours a day in residency and then comes home and studies 2-3 hours on weekenights, and then goes to bed. We have about 15 minutes of quality time togther.

On the weekends, he studies all day Sunday and Friday nights. We have some of Saturday to spend together if he's not on call.

Throw in call every 4th night into the mix of all this studying, and as a wife I feel that I never see him.

How could I be like this as a mom with a full-time working spouse, knowing I'd have to depend on a nanny to raise my kids? Yikes!

This is what I don't understand. Is it possible? By the way, I'm reading "Perfect Madness: Motherhood in the Age of Anxiety" which may help with some of these questions. I'll let y'all know when I'm done.

 

[brotherbloat]

I really, really regret coming to want this med school thing so late in life. If I was now 24-25, and applying, it would be a no-brainer.

But at age 28, as I am now, I am really wrestling with it. I'm married, so kids in the future (before 35 at least) is starting to enter my consciousness more and more. I wish that I didn't have to take into account my mommy potential when thinking about how to best use my brain and skills, but such is the nature of being female, I guess.

8 years is such a long time. I want to make the pre-med decision with as few regrets on whatever side it comes out on as possible. On the one hand, if I were to get handed an acceptance letter today, and if I were to accept, I'd feel regret. I'd feel trapped in a sense, knowing that for the next 8 years most of my time would be taken up by one thing. And what if as a 3rd or 4th year med student I end up hating medicine and want out? By then it's too late.

So my question to you all is, how much certainty are you choosing this path with? It can't be 100%, since we all know that medicine has its cons. Are you comfortable with being 75% certain?

I'm not sure what level of certaintly I'm comfortable with, maybe 70% certain that this is the right path for me.

However, I also know if I _don't_ pursue medicine I will always feel like "less of a woman" for it. You know, like not quite "man enough." I'll always regret not being able to pursue this challenge. Is having this regret worth just charging ahead despite the other cons? Anyone else feel similarly?

 

[mshheaddoc]

I know that this is my calling. I really do struggle with the choice but I might have children in med school and my SO and myself will figure it out. This is the "rest" of your life that we are talking about. I watn to be happy. You have have a family and do medical school and also be a doctor. Many women before you have. Its those who give me faith. Although I question myself at times, I know where my interests truly lie. You aren't alone!!!

 

[QofQuimica]

There's no easy answer, BB; each person has to decide what is most important to her in life. I solved the problem my way when I decided at age 15 that I would not have children. I love kids, and I hope my sister has some so that I can be an aunt, but I honestly feel that I'd resent having to make the kind of career sacrifices necessary to be a hands-on kind of mom.

I'm not able to make peace with the idea of having kids and putting them in day care as infants so that I could go back to work or school. Raising children is such an important job that I just can't fathom paying strangers to do it. I know that lots of women do decide to do this, and like njbmd said, most of their kids turn out fine, but doing it goes against my values. I believe that if you have children, your own desires are not primary anymore; the welfare of the kids comes first. So if you have to work less in order to care for your kids yourself, then you work less. And if going to medical school isn't compatible with the level of involvement that you want in your kids lives, then you don't go to medical school. Alternatively, you don't have the kids, and then you can be more self-centered.

It's a really tough issue, and far be it from me to say that my solution is "best" or even "right." But it IS the least of all the evils, IMHO, and I can live with myself for having chosen it. One other possibility I have considered is to adopt an older child after finishing all of my training and establishing my career. Not only is it a wonderful thing to do in its own right, but adopting also removes the pressure to have kids before age 35, whether or not you're ready for them at that point. Of course, if you feel that you must have a biological child, then this option won't work for you.

 

[brotherbloat]

Anyone consider waiting until late 30's to do medicine, so that your kids will be in school, and doing dentistry now? That way, you'll have just 4 years, opporutnity not to feel trapped in such a big committment, and then you'll still be in the science mode to pursue med school around your mid-late 30's? That is one compromise I'm thinking about.

-Bloat

 

[mshheaddoc]

Anyone consider waiting until late 30's to do medicine, so that your kids will be in school, and doing dentistry now? That way, you'll have just 4 years, opporutnity not to feel trapped in such a big committment, and then you'll still be in the science mode to pursue med school around your mid-late 30's? That is one compromise I'm thinking about.

-Bloat

Why go to all that schooling if you aren't going to use it? Dentistry shouldnt' be an option. Or am I misreading your statement?

I think you are worrying too much about it and stressing yourself out unnecessarily. If you decide to postpone school, do the prereqs at your leisure. Tlak to your SO and see what he says. I won't put my life on hold for my family, meaning I'm not going ot postpone med school for it. I can work around it. But that is a personal decision you have to make. Iknow others who put off med school for a few years to have kids. You should check out MomMD.com for some support for this issue!!

 

[brotherbloat]

How can I make this decsision............the angst is too much! I need to make the decision by June 1, my self-imposed deadline, b/c I've put off this decision for 2.5 years already.....

What can I do??????????

 

[beanbean]

You have posted many threads on SDN with many different concerns and doubts. Perhaps you are not yet ready to make this decision. Becoming a doctor requires and enormous amount of commitment and dedication, You really need to be sure that this is what you truly want.

Med school with kids can certainly be done. I am finishing my MSII year and have three, ages 8, 6, 21 mos. I have a nanny during the day who is wonderful and my parents live nearby. My husband has a very busy job as an executive and travels extensively, but when he is home he is wonderfully supportive. It is quite a balancing act at times, but we are committed as a family to making this work. I was a stay-at home mom for 6 yrs before starting med school and cherish the time I had with my girls when they were little. However, I feel just as close to my son and he is a very well-adjusted little man.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I agree with beanbean. Maybe you aren't ready for this and should journey on with toying with this idea later in life. With all these doubts, it might be hard to fully commit to this path, which you need to do for the next 8 years. Your indecision weighs greatly.


Your original questions were:

is it possible to be a good mom and a good med student/ resident or do you have to do both mediocrely?

Yes it is, but it depends on the relationship with your husband and your support structure. Most importantly yourself. Do you feel you can handle this? My guess is no.

What to do? Is it fair to your child for him/her to not have two parents ever around, who are both busy doctors/ med students?

This is my issue that I have. But I have confidence in the future with my current significant other. We have talked of the future and we are 4 years apart in schooling. So earliest possibility would be me starting med school when he starts residency in two years. I want a family and so does he. We will find a way to make it work and I have no issues with this. You sound like you are lacking the confidence in you and your SO to accomplish this if you are questioning yourself.

You seem like me, where you obessively worry of the future. I know its hard. TRUST ME. I worry way too much and I'm the planner of all plans. But I have learned to have faith in my decisions. I control my life, it doesn't control me. I now take things as they come and realized, I can't worry about the future. I have my goals and I want to accomplish them. Don't lose sight of them. If you have the support structure with your husband, you should both talk about the future. You will both make sacrafices but you can have a career in medicine and children. Many women do it!


There is nothing else we can share with you to help you decide. Its now up to you. We can't make that decision for you.

 

[efex101]

If you are not totally embracing this path and want it soooo bad you can taste it then IMHO you are just not "ready" now to embark on it. Medical school, residency and beyond is a LOT of work, time, commitment, etc..that WILL take you away from your family so beware! sure you *can* be a mother and a physician but there *is* a price to pay, AKA time. There is not more than 24 hours in one day and when you are putting in 80 hours during residency in the hospital alone this does not leave that much time for nothing else. Again, you post a lot with questions (which is not bad) and it seems that you are trying to get answers here to something that YOU need to figure out. I do not feel that your heart is in this 200% so I would caution you to take this road at this time. There is plenty of time to get into medical school believe me, I started at 38 when my kids were older and it *is* easier with older children than with little ones..so you can always wait for medicine but your family grows and often times they grow "away" from you.

 

[mamadoc]

Lots of good observations on this thread that I hope will help you, BB. You've heard from a few moms who've given their experiences, how they make it work and how they have no regrets, so let me add my story FWIW.

Looking back I am really glad that I did NOT feel the strong pull for medicine when I was also feeling the strong yearning for children. It made having the kids and being a stay-at-home mom with them an easy decision - I really wanted to have that time with them. I'm glad I did it. My own path was decidedly unconventional, as my kids were 21, 18 and 14 when I finally started med school. I'm not saying you need to defer THAT drastically, but as others have said, if you feel torn about combining the intensity of early motherhood with the intensity of medical school, it is going to be much harder for you than it would be for someone who is sure that there is a way to make it work.

There is no one right way. You really are going to have to decide what works best for YOU and then make up your mind to enjoy it!

 

[NY Musicologist]

I wish that I didn't have to take into account my mommy potential when thinking about how to best use my brain and skills, but such is the nature of being female, I guess.

However, I also know if I _don't_ pursue medicine I will always feel like "less of a woman" for it. You know, like not quite "man enough." I'll always regret not being able to pursue this challenge.

Hi, BB. I can't speak to the issue of kids and careers, but I was struck by your emphasis on your desire to "use your brain and skills" and "pursue this challenge." I certainly understand (and commend!) the urge to put other organs besides your uterus to good use, and to challenge yourself to achieve. Now, the last thing I want is to accuse you of being narrow-minded, but have you considered that there are MANY other careers out there that could fill these criteria? (In other words, what makes you so sure that medicine is THE one, the only, the ultimate challenge that can make you feel satisfied?) I think I remember from previous posts that your hubby is a doctor, so medicine is obviously something that's within the realm of your experience. But just because it's obvious, doesn't mean it's for you. Broaden your horizons--if you love the biological sciences, for example, consider going for a Ph.D. and an eventual career in academia or in medical research. It'll challenge you and become a source of pride/prestige while still leaving you room to have the family you want. And it'll differentiate you from your MD hubby.

Maybe a meeting with a career planner/life coach is in order.

Wishing you the best,
NYM

 

[Em&M]

To the OP:

Hi, I am not in med school yet but I feel as though I have something to offer as I am also 28, the mother of a 7-year old daughter and I will be applying in June 06.

For the last 2 years, I have been working full time in a research lab, no big deal right? Standard 40 h/w job. In addition to that, I volunteer at two different places (hospital and clinic), I shadow doctors and I have been taking at least 2 upper science courses a semester (+summer) to improve my gpa. I don't think that I need to be in med school yet to know what effect a time consuming schedule has on family life!

I want you to know that when people say that it can be done... it really can. You don't even have to wait until you are out of school to do to have children. I tell you this with all of the wisdom of my experience: You find time to make it all happen. You love your children and understand that sometimes you all have to dig your heels in and wade through it.

There are times that I have to leave my daughter with a sitter so that I can go to the library for marathon study sessions all day on Saturday and it literally breaks my heart to see the look on her face when I go. Sometimes I cry all the way there wondering if I am doing the right thing. But then I am able to see the clearer picture. We spend a lot of time together. I mostly study at night when she is asleep so that from the moment we get home to the minute she goes to bed, we spend family time together. I read to her everynight and we constantly talk about why I have to be gone a lot so that she feels more at ease with why I am not around as much as I used to be.

Maybe my methods won't work for everybody but the key to having both things in your life is to recognize that this is temporary (med school will be easier than residency to schedule around children) and also understand that sometimes, QUALITY of time is worth a whole lot more than quantity of time. I know plenty of messed up kids who had "stay-at-home" parents (mostly moms...)

I know that I want to be a physician the same way a spouse knows when their partner is right for them. It will still take a ton of hard work and yes, sadly, you will have to sacrifice a little around the edges to make it happen. You are afraid of something that you don't even know about yet. I have learned through the many mistakes that I have made thus far (and believe me, the list is long!) that no matter how hard you plan, things never end up quite the way you thought they would. So the real test is in how you handle the cards dealt to you, not how much you worry about what your hand might be.

Sorry that was so cryptic and cliche but it is so true. I don't really know what I am doing most days. I have a plan but it sometimes falls apart in places. I just make sure that when I go to sleep at night, I know my daughter is safe and secure and feels loved. No matter how hard you try, you won't be the perfect mom, even if you stay home. We all make mistakes but understand that children love unconditionally. Make your time and your words count and you will get through med school with happy, well-adjusted kids even if you are not there 24/7.

And by the way, I am sure that you have heard this before, but some schools are especially "mom-friendly" with putting lectures directly on line so that you do not have to come in everyday for class if you need to be at home with children. I would also advise checking that out at any of the schools at which you plan to apply.

Don't worry, just go with it and take it as it comes. Kids have a way of showing up when you least expect it anyway (speaking from experience )

 

[brotherbloat]

To E and M,

Your post was very interesting. I don't understand, though, how what you described is possible.

For instance, my hubby only has me to deal with and I never see him. He works 12 hour days, comes home and studies, and we maybe have 15 minutes of "quality time". On the weekends, all day Sunday is reserved for study and if he's not on call during the weekend, which he usually is, maybe we'll go out to lunch Saturday and watch a movie Friday. To me, if he were a single parent with a child to look after, I would say that child would be suffering immensely. Because I sure am, as an adult.

How can you hold down a 40 hour a week job, take two classes, volunteer, shadow, and be a mom? When I worked full-time, took one class at night and studied for the MCAT I felt pressed for time, and that's without any kids and, as per the above, not really seeing my husband much. Can you give me a time breakdown of your day? How many hours per weeknight do you spend with your daugter, and on weekends? Because although of course I believe you, I'd like to see a breakdown just for further clarification.

Are you stressed out all the time? Do you have a hubby too? Do you feel like you ever have time for yourself? See, the thing is, I'm not the type of person who enjoys feeling "hectic" or "rushed." I like to live my life very organically, with lots of sleep, time to take a hot bath, etc. Without that "balance," I feel very out of sorts, and I'm thinking that this type of work/life balance you describe would necessarily lead to feelings of hecticness.

The other thing, is that your daughter is 7 years old, is in school all day, and is relatively able to entertain herself. I will be having a baby, which, I think, may be a whole other story. I would imagine an infant-toddler is a lot more work than a 7 year old--thoughts?

The other thing is that a friend suggested to me that perhaps a live-in nanny would be a good solution. Yikes--that idea really doesn't jive with me. I could never have a stragner living in my home. I don't even like the idea of a live-out nanny.

What about having to move for med school--how will that affect your family and daugher? And then moving again, maybe for internship, and then again, perhaps for residency? If you don't have a partner, how will you deal with the nights on call? I can barely deal with my hubby being gone every 4th night, sometimes more often, as an adult. I worry that my child/ren will resent me for being an absentee mom.

I really, really want to believe that it can work. There are just sooooo many variables to consider, I feel like all this anxiety over even applying is far worse than all my post-bacc courses and two MCATs combined. I hear some happy stories like yours, of well-adjusted kids and non-stressed moms, and then I hear other horror stories and I don't know what to believe. My main issue is: "is it worth all the trouble--all the coordinating, the planning ahead, the planning for kids, the worry about call, the studying, and the blood-borne illness fears for this career that I want so very much, but that maybe isn't really the best thing for me and my situation right now?"

If you can do all that, why do I feel like I never see my hubby?

 

[lightnk102]

Perhaps you should see a doctor about anxiety medication.

If you spend your life always afraid of the millions of variables out there, then you won't truly live your life, but only go through it scared. And you won't ever get to do anything. You can't control every variable possible. Perhaps when you realize that - and only account for the things you can control (i.e. whether you want to go to med school), things will get easier. As it is now, all we can do is speculate on the future. Unfortunately, none of us is psychic, otherwise we'd be able to tell you exactly what will happen to you if you were to have kids in med school and ease your mind.

I'm not sure what you want to hear from us since a few people have posted their "it's definitely possible" real-life experiences, but you don't seem to want to believe them. If you really want to make things work - it will take flexibility. If you're open to being flexible, then anything really is possible.

 

[brotherbloat]

Perhaps you should see a doctor about anxiety medication.

If you spend your life always afraid of the millions of variables out there, then you won't truly live your life, but only go through it scared. And you won't ever get to do anything. You can't control every variable possible. Perhaps when you realize that - and only account for the things you can control (i.e. whether you want to go to med school), things will get easier. As it is now, all we can do is speculate on the future. Unfortunately, none of us is psychic, otherwise we'd be able to tell you exactly what will happen to you if you were to have kids in med school and ease your mind.

I'm not sure what you want to hear from us since a few people have posted their "it's definitely possible" real-life experiences, but you don't seem to want to believe them. If you really want to make things work - it will take flexibility. If you're open to being flexible, then anything really is possible.

I agree with you, I know I have more anxiety than many people my age (20's), it's primarily upbringing, I think. I was raised in a household where my parents were very overprotective and made me to be cautious in everything I do. They always dissuaded me from sports (you might get hurt) or going places alone (you might get abducted.) I know this is not a good way to live but it's very, very hard to break free from early childhood upbringings. In many ways I have done a lot of things that break this mold, but in other ways I'm still very cautious and a planner in general. I like to try and plan for the major things, if possible. Not a good way to be, I know, but I'm workign on it.

I do realize that the main issue is "do I want to go to med school," and that things down the road are a secondary consideration, but even with the above question of what do I want to do, I'm still on the fence. Also, being married also puts another spin on things as I must take my hubbies thoughts and feelings into account (i.e. how will he feel about moving to Fargo, North Dakota if the only school I get into is the University of North Dakota; is that fair to him and his job prospects?")

I guess every reason I named above--call, the studying, blood-borne illnesses--would affect me without kids just as much as it would affect me with kids.

Having a medical resident hubby, I've seen first hand how exhausting, frustrating, and what a poor quality of life medicine can be--in other words, maybe I've seen more of the negative aspects of medicine through my hubby than others have who have not lived intimately with a medical spouse through med school, internship, and residency. For instance, if I was applying now as a 22 year old, I would have no qualms about any of this whatsoever. However, four years (internship and residency) is not an insignificant amount of time, and I've seen firsthand what a poor quality of life my hubby has now that he's a resident, and when I've asked him, he says if he were me he "could not do it over again." I see him fall asleep on the couch every night, too tired to interact with me and I watch him study for exam after exam (even in residency) and prepare for talk after talk (and his residency is supposedly one of the easier ones!) Not only does he have to study but also prepare for what seems like busywork talks and reports and also study for major exams that he has 6 times a year. All this plus 12 hour days plus a child/children in the mix? I'm getting tired just thinking of it, but I'm trying to keep an objective and open mind.

But I'm not necessarily letting his experiences/ opionion dissuade me, I'm just trying to figure out if being chained to a 12 hour a day job plus hours upon hours of studying and the neverending exams even in residency is how I want to spend my eary to mid 30's. Add a child or two into the mixture and you can see how this picture doesn't look all that appealing.

I am open to being flexible, I just am trying as hard as I can to mentally prepare for what's ahead, because I don't want to be 34, in my first year of residency, and hating my life. Because I already made one huge mistake with my previous grad school and career and I really don't want to make another one. It just seems to make sense to carefully weigh the pros and cons when you're already 28 with life plans that include biological children.

Please also respond to my post above, as well as this one, if you can.

Thanks!

Bloat

 

[olydoc2b]

I'm not sure how helpful this will be to you--just another experience to mull over. I've always been the neurotic type as well, protective parents, etc. and definitely a control freak, so decided how, when, if to balance kids and a medical career was a tough one for me as well.

Right before graduating as an undergrad (2nd degree, already an older student) I decided, much to the horror of my teachers and classmates, to take some time off before med school to have kid(s). Now after 3 years off, I'm waitlisted at my state school (although a competitive applicant--I'm confident I'll get in somewhere next year if these year doesn't work out) AND expecting child #2 in October.

Crazy? Probably, but I'm finding what works for me. After talking to lots of folks about various experiences, I think it will be easier to have young kids earlier in med school than during residency and maybe even easier than if I had waited until I had started practicing (which wasn't really an option for me as an older applicant--I wasn't willing to risk the older mom thing). But in all truth--women do it at any stage in their education and adjust their lives accordingly.

As many others have said, it is easier if you have a very supportive spouse (mine is doing his research year for his masters next year = flex schedule)and just the attitude that you can make anything work. Even single parents make it work, though. IT WILL BE HARD--but duh, right? I know I won't be top of my class, but I'll make it work for me. I studied for the MCATs, tested well, and was the only one breastfeeding during breaks on test day--you'll have to get used to being different if you do the parent thing early. Schools tend to be good about allowing 5 year plans if you want to take more time, etc. The fact is, this is the only career that I have a passion for and I know it will work.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do and just know that if you want to go into medicine, you will make it work whether you have kids first or later. Once you have had kids, anxiety becomes a totally different game--you'll agonize about different things and quickly get very good at learning what to let go of. Oh--and you learn not to sleep. I haven't slept since I was 6 months preg. with #1.

 

[DrYo12]

BB-

I have been reading your posts and inquiries for some time now and think there are a number of things going on that must be addressed before you are ready to take these two major steps in your life (children and med school).

My impression is that the majority of the issues you are struggling with are related to your marriage. While I realise that you are an intellectual person in and of yourself and that medical school is absolutely within your academic capability, take some time to consider your reasons for wanting to attend. Is this something that you 'feel' within you to do with your life--a 'calling' if you will, or is it something that you are doing to 'fill your potential'? Many women fall into the trap of thinking that they must pursue a career that is 'challenging' to prove to others that they are capable and smart. Perhaps your motivation for this career stems in part from the validation you seek in being regarded as a physician. Even deeper is the fact that your husband is in the medical profession and from what I have seen thus, it seems that you miss him terribly and that you would do whatever was possible to be closer to him, including pursuing the same career whether it was really what you wanted or not. Perhaps in your subconscious, you are thinking that by going along the same route, your husband will grant you the attention that you seek from him in the form of understanding and support of your career.

You don't need to compete with other people in his life for his attention--he married you above all others because you are the one he wants to spend the rest of his life with, not anyone else. You don't need to go into the medical profession to 'prove' to him or yourself that you are smart enough or successful enough to be married to him--do it because its in your heart and its the right thing. When you marry someone, you marry them for who they are, not necessarily who they tell you they will be in the future, ie he loves you now, perfections and flaws alike.

As for having children, this is also symptomatic of your marriage. I think your hesitation to either decide to wait or decide to have them now is directly related to the fact that you don't feel as close to your husband as you think you should at this point in your married life. By default, he is not around and not physically able to be there as many hours in the day as you would enjoy. Remember that having children with someone irreversibly ties you to that person and creates something beautiful for the two of you to share as long as you both live. Don't have a baby because you're trying to get closer to him and don't NOT have a baby because you're trying to wait for him to come around and be there for you in the way that you are seeking. This is not something that you need to decide alone, but together with your husband. If he can't make the time to have these important conversations with you, then perhaps that in turn is another form of an answer for you.

Hang in there, BB. Things work out as they should in the end if we allow ourselves to quiet our mind and really listen to our hearts.

 

[brotherbloat]

S

 

[Em&M]

BB:

You asked before how I could do it, raise a daughter and do all that I am doing to get into med school. It is not easy and I didn't want to make it seem so but some of the things that you talk about needing (ex: sleep and long baths, etc...) are luxuries to me not the norm! I decided a long time ago that I wanted med school more than I wanted free time, sleep or a social life

I do get to find some time for myself so as not to go crazy but alas, it is not often. This was a sacrifice that I was willing to make. Now, if something happened to my daughter and I was forced to choose between her well being and my career, I would quit everything in a second for her but luckily for me, nothing quite that drastic has happened.

There have been several posters today whom have made some outstanding points. First and foremost is that everybody finds a way to make it work for them, in their own unique way. Personally, I get up at around 5:30-5:45 am to eat breakfast and study before my daughter wakes up. Yes, it is true that she is a little older and is in school during the day but I still utilize whatever "free time" that I have. I study during my lunch breaks and when I get home at 4:30, we (my daughter and I) work on homework, cook dinner and maybe take walk. I use this time to talk to her and play with her and take in everything that she says.

I do have a sig. other (I am getting married next September...after med school apps are sent out!) so he is home and when I have class in the evenings or when I have to go to the library, he is home to take over the parenting role. After bed at 8:30, I will usually clean a bit, do some laundry and study (or dink around on SDN!)

We make it work. No, it is not perfect or ideal but there is a lot of love and honesty in our home and we know that these circumstances will not last forever. There will more than likely be more children in the not so distant future as well and we will just take them in stride and take one day at a time like we do now. We are getting very good at adapting!

Please do not worry so much about this issue, you cannot plan. Your hubby sounds like a very busy guy but I don't think that every residency is that horrid. There will be many options for you when you get to that point and maybe by then your husband will be out of the craziness and then he can take care of the fam and do the sacrificing while you are in school. He owes you that much after all that you have accepted for him

Good Luck. Em.

 

[OSURxgirl]

Please go to therapy. Please.

Do you know how silly you sound? Why would you think he'd be embarrassed of you??? The only problem here is that you are not okay with yourself. If you don't deal with you problems, though, I assure you, you'll drive your husband away.

It sounds to me like you suffer not only from anxiety but from a low self esteem. These are issues you will have to conquer before you can have a satisfying marriage or a satisfying career.

 

[efex101]

Residency *is* usually that horrid..the hours are 80 hrs/week *at* the hospital and *then* you have to read/study/etc...so that eats up more hours. This path is NOT to be taken lightly and although some folks seem to manage everything beautifully many do not. Go to mommd and see what physicans that are mothers are struggling with. Having older children IS much easier while in medical school and residency than those with younger children. Can it be done? sure but yes there is a price to pay again that price is TIME. There are just NOT enough hours in one day to do ALL at 100% heck if you get one at 90% (work or family) then the other will suffer. Also the mileage may vary depending on intellectual ability how LONG does it/will it take you to memorize tons of information and no you cannot compare this to undergrad it is very very different...for some folks it will take DAYS to get stuff down for others hours etc...so THAT will also play a role on how much time you have for your family. I cannot believe you keep asking the same stuff though..you have a husband who is a resident there is your answer! you know how much he is gone, do you think you can do *that* and have a family? I think that you know the answer and obviously this answer will vary depending on the individual...but most of us cannot be Suzy Homemaker and stellar medical student heck even average medical student and Suzy Homemaker are mutually exclusive...

 

[DrYo12]

Also remember that there are fantastically intellectual and intelligent women out there that make a decision to be a homemaker. It is what fufills them.

 

[OSURxgirl]

<<Also remember that there are fantastically intellectual and intelligent women out there that make a decision to be a homemaker. It is what fufills them.

Yeah, because diaper changing, laundry, and cooking require such keen intellect. I don't think any true intellectual would ever be happy as a SAHM. I'm not saying SAHM's aren't intelligent, but there is a difference between an intelligent person (someone smart) and an intellectual (someone committed to lifelong learning and advancing world knowledge).

 

[DrYo12]

<<Also remember that there are fantastically intellectual and intelligent women out there that make a decision to be a homemaker. It is what fufills them.

Yeah, because diaper changing, laundry, and cooking require such keen intellect. I don't think any true intellectual would ever be happy as a SAHM. I'm not saying SAHM's aren't intelligent, but there is a difference between an intelligent person (someone smart) and an intellectual (someone committed to lifelong learning and advancing world knowledge).

Even using your own definition of an intellectual, a woman can most definitely have a committment to lifelong learning and advancing world knowledge and find joy in the simplest pleasures of life. An intellectual need not pursue a career outside their home to feel involved in the world around them and contribute. By raising healthy, strong, loving, and honest children, a woman gains a sense of satisfaction and builds an intimate connection with their children that is unique and gratifying all at once.

Perhaps there are some that would not take pleasure in the mundane, but don't discount the fact that there are indeed true intellectuals with the capacity to perform well at anything they choose that DO enjoy their role as a wife, a mother, a homemaker, and all the other wonderful things that women can personally achieve in their lives. I don't believe that you personally would enjoy being a stay at home mother, but there are thousands of women that make the decision to commit their lives to raising children and maintaining a household and EVEN as intellectuals still love doing it. Granted, they won't love it all the time, but you would be hard pressed to find someone who loves every aspect of their career all the time. There will be things that one loves and others that one will avoid at all costs, whether it comes to a career outside the home or maintaining the household.

 

[brotherbloat]

I'm not talking about being suzy homemaker. Even if I do not choose medicine I will never be a stay at home mom, I will work full-time. What I am concerned about, though, is the non hospital hours that make the difference--the studying. If my hubby just worked 12 hour days and then came home and had no other obligations to work, I'd say, sure, I could do it. But it's not like that, and I wonder if all the studying I'd have to do at night would just prohibit any time spent with the kids. I just wonder if that's fair, b/c I do want biological children, and while I think it would be ok to leave them with a nanny during the day while we both work, would it be fair to leave them with a nanny at night when hubby is on call and I have studying to do?

I was with hubby during med school and intern year and I felt that we spent tons of time together in med school, then none in intern and none now. Do I wouldn't be worried about making it work in med school, b/c it would. And my hubby was at the top of his class in med school, and is now top of his class in residency, so it's not like he has problems learning the info, as I probably would. It's just the number of exams, busy work projects, and 2-3 hours of studying per weeknight and 8 hours on Sundays that he has to do to even be an average resident in his specialty. He's not even striving to be the best--it just happened that way.

-Bloat

 

[DCM]

My mother started med school when I was 15 and my sister 11. It was definitely challenging but enriching for all of us. It was incredible for my sister and I to hear about all she was learning and fun to have med students etc over at the house all the time. We were both in college when she was in residency and got great fin aid at good private colleges. Again there were challenges but very positive overall and a good example for us. I am starting med school this fall.

Some of you mentioned wasting an education changing diapers and I disagree very much. Being a mother is incredibly challenging and if you are with them all of the time it you who are responsible for forming so much of there childhood. Teaching about science, history, importance of voting, music, hiking, whatever. I can't imagine a job that has more responsibility or requires a stronger education.

My wife was a strong biology major and plans to go to grad school and start a career after having children and being home with them. A family friend of ours was a stay at home mom with five children who went back for an MBA after the youngest was school age. She then became Exec VP for a large corporation. So that is a great way to be able to accomplish everything you want.

Hope you don't mind me contributing to a thread that I am only loosely related to, but I like reading these because I also worry about being a dad/husband/med student/doctor.

 

[mamadoc]

Yeah, because diaper changing, laundry, and cooking require such keen intellect. I don't think any true intellectual would ever be happy as a SAHM. I'm not saying SAHM's aren't intelligent, but there is a difference between an intelligent person (someone smart) and an intellectual (someone committed to lifelong learning and advancing world knowledge).

You make the assumption that paid work outside the home is the only way to live an intellectual life. There are many other ways to pursue a commitment "to lifelong learing and advancing world knowledge," and some of them may indeed include SAHM-hood. Be careful about such sweeping assumptions.

But back to the OP and her question: you know, your control issues are going to continue to cause you trouble no matter what you decide to do, because the truth is that most of life is not in our control. Your need to KNOW in advance how things are going to be - do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? And I'm not saying that to belittle your concerns, but to point out that life itself is unpredictable. You do try to manage the controllable parts, but so much is beyond your reach...

What everyone is saying here is that no one can tell you what it will be like, because there is no crystal ball that can predict it. Say you decide to have kids AND go to medical school. Then it turns out that your kid gets sick all the time, and you didn't count on having to stay home or arrange with your spouse for sick-kid child care - that's a relatively innocuous example.

Say you go to medical school, with or without kids, and find out two weeks into the semester that your father is diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and will only live a short while. That happened to one of my classmates.

Or, you have older kids while you're in medical school and one of them writes a suicide note and leaves it for you to find when you get home from class. That happened to another of my classmates.

Or, your mother is in and out of treatment for lymphoma while you are in medical school, with complications such as pneumonia, pulmonary emboli, chemotherapy side effects, etc. etc. This happened to me.

During third year of medical school, imagine showing up for the first day of your rotation, the senior resident looks around the table, and says, "Okay, you guys can work out your own call schedule but it needs to start tonight. Who can stay for call?" This happened to me too.

My point is, for crying out loud, you cannot write a script for your life and expect it to just play out. Your anxiety about uncertainty is paralyzing you and rendering you unable to just live life every day, with all its risks and uncertainties. I echo what another poster said, please get some therapy. In another post you say you can't afford it - I submit that you can't afford NOT to get some sort of help, and I urge you to explore options at the medical school, community clinics, etc. I "hear" a lot of my old self in your worries - I used to be a control freak too! Therapy helped me more than I can say. You've got some insight into your dilemma, but you need guidance to figure out how to work beyond it and gain some inner strength. Good luck.

 

[Truth74]

Hi,
Just thought I'd toss in my $0.02.
I am a mother of three. 9, 7, and 4. I am a SAHM. I made the decision to form my children's lives for at the least their first three years. I also took college courses when they didn't need me as much. That's what non-trads do. We take courses when you can, and save up for the big time. It's a choice, just like everything else. Now that the youngest one is ready for school, I will be at a full-time U finishing pre-reqs this fall.
It can be done, but it depends on how much you think you need, and how much you actually need.
I'm talking time, peace, sleep...
The things most moms do without on a daily basis.

 

[MoosePilot]

<<Also remember that there are fantastically intellectual and intelligent women out there that make a decision to be a homemaker. It is what fufills them.

Yeah, because diaper changing, laundry, and cooking require such keen intellect. I don't think any true intellectual would ever be happy as a SAHM. I'm not saying SAHM's aren't intelligent, but there is a difference between an intelligent person (someone smart) and an intellectual (someone committed to lifelong learning and advancing world knowledge).

Man, this view always cracks me up.

Teaching college kids = one of the most accepted intellectual paths

Teaching your own kids = not intellectual



This view is what is screwing up our country right now. There is literally no job that is more important than parent. It allows a lot of room for intellectual pursuits. Home school and spend your time learning in order to teach the child. If you're not intelligent enough to pursue your own learning while raising kids, then you should probably give up on calling yourself an intellectual.

 

[QofQuimica]

Teaching college kids = one of the most accepted intellectual paths

Teaching your own kids = not intellectual



This view is what is screwing up our country right now. There is literally no job that is more important than parent. It allows a lot of room for intellectual pursuits. Home school and spend your time learning in order to teach the child. If you're not intelligent enough to pursue your own learning while raising kids, then you should probably give up on calling yourself an intellectual.

I agree. I don't think that voluntary stay-at-home parents deserve that kind of derision. If anything they deserve a medal. Anyone who has ever taken care of kids for even a short period of time quickly finds out that it is a very tough job, both physically and mentally.

The problem comes in when people are INvoluntary stay-at-home parents. Raising children is not something that should be done half-heartedly or resentfully by someone who wishes s/he were somewhere else. So this is the quandary: if one wants to be a physician, and s/he also wants to personally raise children, can this be done, and if so, how? Unsurprisingly, it doesn't appear to be possible to do it without depending heavily on outside support. So the major options appear to either be having one parent stay home with the kids (often the mom, but could be the dad), or else using daycare, a nanny, etc. so that both parents can work/go to school.

 

[Turtlefan]

Maybe it's just me...but I think there is a world of difference between teaching 1-5 children everything you know and teaching a few thousand children everything you know. One lifetime, two very different outcomes.

I sat today with a group of fairly young mothers, mostly in their late 20's, early 30's. I know many of them had MBAs and other advanced degrees; all of them had gone to "good schools." Not one of them, apparently, was capable of a conversation that didn't revolve around their babies, nor were they able to sustain a discussion without breaking every sixty seconds to coo at the nearby one year old, my niece. Later today, I went to a party comprised of similarly-aged people who hadn't had children. We had some very interesting discussions on the state of education, travel, sexuality, and so on. Much more intellectually stimulating than the gymboree schedule of a two year old, at least to me.

What puzzles me the most is that while I love my niece and rarely get to see her, I do not feel the need to neglect the adult part of my life when she is sitting on my lap. Is that the true goal of motherhood? Discarding all the things that you once loved, that made you who you were, all the things you worked so hard for, so that you can aimlessly prattle about bottle sterilization and teething rings? To take the love of your life, a man (or woman) who you lusted for and desired and loved, and transform that person into only a "daddy" or "mommy." Existing in a Harrison Bergeron-esque mental state of constant distraction?

I can't imagine pretending that what I am wasn't important any more. You wouldn't build a multi-million dollar house and then hide it under a blanket, would you? So why would you spend several decades amassing knowledge and then hiding it in favor of teaching your children things that could be as easily demonstrated by someone with a high school education? You don't need a PhD to take a child to the museum and point at the dinosaurs.

 

[adennis]

Turtlefan,
Interesting observations...

As a mother, let me tell you that this frequently happens... but in a lot of cases (not all) it's only temporary... I have seen it many times, and am ashamed to admit, that it happened to me... once a lot of women become pregnant it's all about the pregnancy.. then the baby comes, it's all about the baby.. it's all about the child.. the toddler, etc... this is your life... you wanted this.. you become this...

unfortunately, it's not the healthiest of identities... I basically woke up one day and said.. (this was after my second child).. I hate my life... I'm tired of being pregnant/breastfeeding.. I'm tired of only having my job (which I was only working to pay for childcare and a little bit extra) and changing diapers all day... I had become so engrossed in motherhood that I'd forgotten my husband, my intellect, and my drive... and I've seen it happen soooooo manytimes...

My children are older now.. and I obviously am beyond this stage... and it sickens me to be around people that are still in the stage... where their whole lives revolve and evolve around giving birth and parenting very small children... I don't have the mentality for it anymore or the patience...

I agree with and understand making some sacrifices to have kids and that things to a certain degree with change... but the biggest mistake that I see women make is to forget who they are, just because they get married, or have kids. To women who are about to have children, I always try to offer this advice.. don't forget who you are, what your dreams and ambitions are, and where you came from... not only you, but your spouse, and your children will be far happier if you remember these things.

 

[schowdhury]

Hi all,

Couldn't resist replying. I am currently a SAHM, aged 34, currently waitlisted at three schools for the class of '09. I have two kids, 4 y.o. and 20 months. Have been SAHM for 3 years, after leaving my full-time job as a technology analyst. Loved my job, loved working, and am totally delighted I missed out on the first year of daipers. Now I'm doing medicine because I felt it was important that I do something more socially responsible, and I really, really want to go back to work, and I always did mean to become a doctor, and have only just decided I'm not too old yet.

I have no worries whatsoever about pursuing medicine while raising my kids -- including the fact that someone else will be parenting them for the bulk of the day. Frankly, the more people in their lives who love them, the better. They are NOT better off for me being at home all the time. I'm bored, they're bored with me, and after 8 hours, none of us can stand each other. Don't get me wrong -- they are everything to me. I know I'm biased, but I'm absolutely positive that my kids are the most wonderful and amazing living things on earth. I just can't do 24/7 with them. So, they spend a lot of time with their Dad (obviously), grandparents, aunts/uncles, friends, pretty much anyone trustworthy who will take them for a little while.

BB: it means you need a strong support network. If youre SO is never there, you will be studying, working, cleaning, buying groceries, hiring babysitters, etc. all by yourself and if done properly, all this stuff will kill you. It's hard work, and a lot of it is not fun or rewarding. You still won't have a lot of time for your kids. Let your SO go part-time. Dads need to spend time with their kids too, and you will need the help. Don't even consider the issue of "wasted" education -- there's no such thing. Working part-time and parenting while your children are at home is a great way to balance, and in my mind, a great way to reach your full potential. As many other posters have noted, parenthood is a demanding job, and it's silly to assume that it's a less-than-acceptable use of your abilities.

About medicine and parenting: Medicine as a profession is perfect for people trying to balance a demanding career with parenting -- there's always some specialty that has great hours, good pay, and no nights (it's not as if some patient is going to have a dermatology emergency at 2:00 am requiring you to leave your children alone and rush to the hospital). Also, part-time work is not hard to find, and still reasonably lucrative. Yeah, there's residency. But again, the time spent in residency will be a function of what kind of residency you are doing, so this is all mostly manageable, and, dare I say, somewhat controllable.


A point of defense: SAHM's spend a lot of time talking about kids because being a Mom is one of those strange jobs -- each kid is different, each parent is different. No matter how many Moms have come before us, it's always new. So, the incessant talk about children is a way to educate ourselves, learn from each other, pick up hints, tips and tricks, and get a clue about whether or not our kids are more or less normal. Yeah, it can be boring as all get-out for those w/out kids, but it's hardly the only conversation Moms have together. It's generally the first one, though because it's the one thing you have in common. Kind of like posting on SDN to talk incessantly about medical school.

Parenting is not about dirty diapers. Ideally, you get someone else to do the dirty diapers, so you get the quality times w/ kids. Unfortunately, the kids do not crap on command, so you will get stuck with dirty daipers. BB, it's just something you will have to deal with, keeping in mind that it will be really hard. If you want to be a doctor and a Mom badly enough, you will figure out how to make it work for you. Also, until you've spent a couple of weeks at home with your own kids, you won't know if that's what you want to do with your life. Give yourself a break -- you do NOT have to make all these decisions by June 1st. Just the one about whether or not you want to be a doctor.

Cheers,
SC

 

[Nanon]

My point is, for crying out loud, you cannot write a script for your life and expect it to just play out. Your anxiety about uncertainty is paralyzing you and rendering you unable to just live life every day, with all its risks and uncertainties.

That pretty much sums it up. For me, I realized that I could handle school and parenthood once I got through caring for my schizophrenic mother while she went through breast cancer treatment - all while working part-time, going to school full time and volunteering. My marriage survived, my mom survived, I didn't fail any classes, and I kept my sanity intact (for the most part). This isn't to say that I did anything perfectly - in fact, nothing was up to my "standards" for a while. And that turned out to be a blessing, because I found out that my "standards" are incompatible with a happy life.

Everything from the point that my mom was declared cured of her cancer to now has been so much easier for me. I get better grades, my marriage is stronger, and most importantly, I have real confidence in myself for the first time in my life. I can do kids. Hell, I can do anything!

Nanon

 

[mshheaddoc]

That pretty much sums it up. For me, I realized that I could handle school and parenthood ...

I have real confidence in myself for the first time in my life. I can do kids. Hell, I can do anything!

This is how I feel after dealing with my life the past year. Its ups and downs. My grades weren't stellar, but you know what. Fulltime working/school, dealing with family issues/illness ... that is life. If a med school can't recognize that, I don't want to go there. I have more confidence in my ability than I think I ever have and I have a clear sense of direction as well. I am planning on having kids during med school and I welcome the challenge

 

[efex101]

"About medicine and parenting: Medicine as a profession is perfect for people trying to balance a demanding career with parenting -- there's always some specialty that has great hours, good pay, and no nights (it's not as if some patient is going to have a dermatology emergency at 2:00 am requiring you to leave your children alone and rush to the hospital). Also, part-time work is not hard to find, and still reasonably lucrative. Yeah, there's residency. But again, the time spent in residency will be a function of what kind of residency you are doing, so this is all mostly manageable, and, dare I say, somewhat controllable."

I am not in residency yet..but I am pretty sure that residency is not controllable at all and hopefully some residents can chime in. No matter what residency you *are* looking at a lot of hours with 80hr/week being the norm and not the exception. Also, medicine is for sure "not" the best career for those wanting those trying to balancing a very demanding career and family. I am not sure who you have been talking to but most women with families will tell you that this career is one of the least friendly for this...go to mommd to get some input from female physicians juggling both. Yes there are some career paths in medicine that are more conducive to a better lifestyle but these are extremely competitive and not within everyones reach and you may fall in love with a very demanding one like surgery...so you never know were you will end up. We do need to be realistic about this endeavor and for those wanting to spend a lot of time with the family *this* is not the best career.

 

[Toofscum]

Efex, we know you're in med school now and that you have a family so how have you been able to balance the demands of med school and family? Have you been able to spend time with your kids/husband more or less than you thought before you started med school? How have your kids dealt with you not being around as much? Do you feel any resentment from them or your hubby? Do you ever get any time to yourself to read a book, go out and shop, work around the house, etc. during the first two basic science years? I can imagine having no opportunity for such things would make anyone frazzeled, let alone a mommd. Any other med students/ residents--not just pre-meds who may or may not truly know what the demands will really be like--want to comment more specifically on what it is actually like while in med school/ residency? Have you tried to spend time with the in small chunks (i.e. dinner) versus large blocks of time (i.e. a Saturday spent hanging out at a park. For those of us going into med/dental school with no kids already but planning to have them in professional school, can it be done during the first two basic science years or would that just be pure $#@@!? I'm applying to dental school but I know the demands are similar, except no residency. From what I've learned on my own speaking to mommds, they say that the first two years of med school are so incredibly insane with all the studying including your weekends that to try to raise small kids or have kids then is out of the question, and they say that third year is no better.

 

[efex101]

Hi, I have been able to manage well the demands of medical school and family *because* for one my husband has picked up ALL my prior duties *and* my children are much older. I have to state that my school is very traditional "lecture" wise and we are in class from 8-5 at least three times a week or more with a couple of days half days..this can vary depending on the classes we are taking. So mileage may vary for "managing" both depending on your class schedule. Also, we come and still are a military family and used to being on the move *and* having one parent gone a lot, so me being gone was kind of business as usual...although I have to admit the kids were NOT used to me being gone but Dad. We have reversed our roles and this "does" take a toll on kids although you as a parent may think that it does not. Sometimes things come up that you kind of wonder how much stress do you really put your kids under. I have been able to spend time with my kids and hubby but this has decreased exponentially for us. Studying has taken a lot of time away from them and going to class all day..well I have to study at night and during the weekends. So yes, it does take "time" away although I am under the same roof with them. This was not as bad in undergrad where you could study for a couple of nights/days and ace exams. Medical school takes much more time and long gone are the days of acing exams. Yes you do get time for yourself but again a lot will depend on your schedule and how fast you absorb huge amount of material at the speed of light. Time for myself has also gone done quite a bit compared to undergrad. The living proof of all this time consuming studying is the high levels of stress that medical students and physicians have...I think that if anyone is thinking about having children for sure medical school *is* the best time because residency is even worse time wise. Again, not trying to discourage anyone but go in with your eyes wide open and expect the time for yourself/family to go down quite a bit. Of course this depends a lot on innate abilities, how demanding your school is and what you are used to for some undergrads are jokes and others are extremely demanding.