For M3's - Biggest Piece of Advice for Away Rotations

[medschoolmentors]

So as a 3rd-year student, no one told me that away rotations are NOT created equal. Don't waste your away rotations like I did (i.e. spend $2k a month x3 months, with tons of effort/stress, and have no interviews to show for it). While away rotations are good learning opportunities, they're much better if spent at a solid program that will interview you, seriously consider you, and likely rank you higher because they know you well and you showed early interest.

My mistake: as a decent applicant from a not-great school, I thought I'd pick somewhat "reach" programs in fun cities. My logic was that, as a reasonably well-adjusted human with great scores and interesting resume, I could buddy up to the people in the department, do well enough in clinics, and they'd give me an interview. This was 100% not true. The programs I picked were at research institutions; they simply didn't care whether or not I'd done an away there -- they cared more about how much research I'd done. It didn't matter that I got along extremely well with everyone, gave a talk that received tons of compliments, or was repeatedly told things like "see you at interviews." For the things that mattered to these programs (research), I just wasn't that great. End of story.

If I could go back, I'd do my research (...no pun intended...) before applying and heading off to away rotations. I would've heavily stalked Reddit/SDN/applicant spreadsheets, and asked around about which programs are still great but less research-oriented. I didn't realize that less-than-average number of research papers cannot be made up for by away rotations, no matter how well the away rotation goes.

Away rotations are expensive. I regret that I didn't use my time and money wisely by doing away rotations where it would've actually boosted my chances. Think about what type of applicant you are. Don't be like me!

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[DrStephenStrange]

It was my understanding that even if you didn't end up getting interviews from places you did aways at, that it was still worth it if you got a good letter of rec out it.

 

[libertyyne]

Could you share what specialty you are applied to?

 

[medschoolmentors]

It was my understanding that even if you didn't end up getting interviews from places you did aways at, that it was still worth it you got a good letter of rec out it.

That’s a good point, and it’s definitely a reason to do away rotations. Due to timing (I wanted to have a completed ERAS by September 15) and the fact that I didn’t consistently work with the same attendings, I didn’t feel comfortable asking for a letter on all of my aways. I did get one letter, which maybe helped my application (?) but I definitely didn’t need 3 aways to get 3 letters, and I could’ve used those other 2 aways for better purposes.

 

[medschoolmentors]

Could you share what specialty you are applied to?

A competitive one haha... and I think the same could be said for any competitive specialty

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Could you share what specialty you are applied to?

The only specialty I know where applicants do aways specifically for interviews is ortho. So that’s my best guess

 

[HinduHammer]

So as a 3rd-year student, no one told me that away rotations are NOT created equal. Don't waste your away rotations like I did (i.e. spend $2k a month x3 months, with tons of effort/stress, and have no interviews to show for it). While away rotations are good learning opportunities, they're much better if spent at a solid program that will interview you, seriously consider you, and likely rank you higher because they know you well and you showed early interest.

My mistake: as a decent applicant from a not-great school, I thought I'd pick somewhat "reach" programs in fun cities. My logic was that, as a reasonably well-adjusted human with great scores and interesting resume, I could buddy up to the people in the department, do well enough in clinics, and they'd give me an interview. This was 100% not true. The programs I picked were at research institutions; they simply didn't care whether or not I'd done an away there -- they cared more about how much research I'd done. It didn't matter that I got along extremely well with everyone, gave a talk that received tons of compliments, or was repeatedly told things like "see you at interviews." For the things that mattered to these programs (research), I just wasn't that great. End of story.

If I could go back, I'd do my research (...no pun intended...) before applying and heading off to away rotations. I would've heavily stalked Reddit/SDN/applicant spreadsheets, and asked around about which programs are still great but less research-oriented. I didn't realize that less-than-average number of research papers cannot be made up for by away rotations, no matter how well the away rotation goes.

Away rotations are expensive. I regret that I didn't use my time and money wisely by doing away rotations where it would've actually boosted my chances. Think about what type of applicant you are. Don't be like me!

Could not agree more with this!! Would also add, that many away rotations are an uphill battle. I've noticed that many in academic medicine are simply unwilling to give medical students overall positive evaluations. They want to give everyone mixed reviews --- compliments and criticisms. Therefore you go on an away rotation, give it 100%, get great feedback, and get a mediocre evaluation which will effect your MSPE and thus chances for other interviews. Honestly, away rotations are a really mixed bag. I've yet to know someone who personally did an away rotation and match at that institution in fields including surgical, derm, ortho, psych, and IM. If I could do it again, I'd do more rotations at my home institution and do more research and get stronger letters from the Chairs etc.

It was my understanding that even if you didn't end up getting interviews from places you did aways at, that it was still worth it if you got a good letter of rec out it.

Unless the letter-writer is published and well-known, like NEJM or Blood for Heme/Onc, no one is going to care much! Letter writers universally write positive things. No one would get a bad letter. Like, a good letter is expected for doing an away, not a reason to do one.

 

[libertyyne]

A competitive one haha... and I think the same could be said for any competitive specialty

The only specialty I know where applicants do aways specifically for interviews is ortho. So that’s my best guess

Well the emphasis on research makes me think neurosurgery.
Sorry you had a bad experience though. Its better they didnt interview you , considering a courtesy interview would have just been a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Pepe18]

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[slowthai]

The only specialty I know where applicants do aways specifically for interviews is ortho. So that’s my best guess

Plastics, neurosurg, CT, IR, etc

 

[VincentAdultman]

I've yet to know someone who personally did an away rotation and match at that institution in fields including surgical, derm, ortho, psych, and IM.

I knew quite a few.

 

[kb1900]

The only specialty I know where applicants do aways specifically for interviews is ortho. So that’s my best guess

This is not true at all...

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Can we stop being coy about specialties and programs? ROLs are in, they can’t do anything now.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

As someone who has said nothing but positive things about away rotations on this forum...

I agree with OP that you really need to do your research before you go. Make sure you are rotating on the same service as the PD or Chair of the department, for 2 weeks minimum. This should maximize their interactions with you, and hopefully get you enough exposure to be comfortable enough asking for a letter of rec.

It's rare to do an away somewhere and not get an interview. This did happen to me, and it was the only away where I did not rotate with the PD or chair.

Avoid places that are completely out of reach based on your numbers. However, this will soon matter much less with Step 1 and all.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

If aways are not required for your specialty, you should only do 1 max. And only at a program your highly interested in that may overlook you due to scores, location, etc.

 

[HinduHammer]

I matched where I did an away rotation. All the places I did aways told me that they were ranking me to match. Half of people who match in my field matched where they do aways or their home program. Psych and IM are different stories because those departments are so large that you won’t get to work with everyone. IM and psych aways should be done so you can spend more time with a program to see if you like them

@medschoolmentors I agree 1000% with researching the program beforehand. But I know people with little to no research who matched top academic programs after doing an away. Everyone is different. But, if you don’t have a lot of research, you should target programs that align with your goals. If you don’t have a good amount of research then obviously you can’t claim that research is hugely important to you, so programs whose goal is to produce scientist-physicians do not align with your interest

Well I guess your n=1 about aways cancels about my n=1 with aways...

 

[Pepe18]

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[libertyyne]

It’s not n=1. You can look at the match spreadsheets for specialties that require away rotations and see that about 50% match where they did an away/their home program

There is an aspect of people actually rotating at programs that fit their academic profile and have a compelling reason to be in the region. If I am an applicant with zero research experience and come from a lower tier MD, It is unlikely I will match at a research heavy institution at the tippy top of academics. It is just the reality of the situation. There are exceptions, but no one is going to be bowled over by my slightly above average for the specialty scores and grades. No matter how personable I am , nor how much I jive with the resident compliment.
There is some truth to OPs post in terms of outcomes, but this is why one should rotate at a place they will likely match, and at a reach within grasp, if not for the improved match outcomes, but just to get an idea on how the other half of world is run.

 

[Pepe18]

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