For those interested in Dermatology...

[cgk]

anyone have any recent knowledge of Dermatology Residency Program at Larkin Community Hospital in South Miami. Pros or Cons?
thanks

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[Coltuna]

If you want to do derm as a DO, you can't be picky lol.

Edit: I was lost on SDN.

 

[cgk]

If you want to do derm as a DO, you can't be picky lol.

Edit: I was lost on SDN.

is that a commentary on Larkin's program specifically?

 

[Coltuna]

is that a commentary on Larkin's program specifically?

That was commentary on the competitive nature of derm. Are you going through the match before the merger?

 

[cgk]

That was commentary on the competitive nature of derm. Are you going through the match before the merger?

after the merger. do you think that would be an advantage or disadvantage?

 

[Coltuna]

after the merger. do you think that would be an advantage or disadvantage?

Take this with a grain of salt as I'm an incoming medical student and am basing this *opinion* on information I've gathered from SDN, but I believe dermatology will become more competitive after the merger for DO's. Really the only chance DO's had to get into derm was on the AOA side of things (with a few exceptions). This isn't to say that those residencies that formerly took DO's won't; however, there will be many highly qualified MD applicants applying to those spots as well.

 

[Gray Fox]

Take this with a grain of salt as I'm an incoming medical student and am basing this *opinion* on information I've gathered from SDN, but I believe dermatology will become more competitive after the merger for DO's. Really the only chance DO's had to get into derm was on the AOA side of things (with a few exceptions). This isn't to say that those residencies that formerly took DO's won't; however, there will be many highly qualified MD applicants applying to those spots as well.

Naw, no need for the salt, you're right. The legion of MD applicants with ungodly stats and pubs applying derm will be vying for those former DO only spots. They already are. It's gonna get a lot, lot harder.

 

[Spectreman]

Naw, no need for the salt, you're right. The legion of MD applicants with ungodly stats and pubs applying derm will be vying for those former DO only spots. They already are. It's gonna get a lot, lot harder.

I knew I should have gone to St George’s

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I knew I should have gone to St George’s

That would have made it worse. The correct answer was you should have gone USMD. You can either try another cycle, or just give up and do something else. Dentistry is still available...

 

[W19]

FM and then derm fellowship...

 

[BorntobeDO?]

FM and then derm fellowship...

Unaccredited Derm fellowship... I sure insurance will pay for that. I am curious if anyone has actually done this tho.

Edit: Unless your talking about Larkin doing the whole you do FM residency first, then you do derm. Thats not a fellowship I thought, just two residencies.

There is/was a 1 year 'rural derm fellowship' on the AAFP page, but it is not accredited from what I remember. So two different things.

 

[W19]

Unaccredited Derm fellowship... I sure insurance will pay for that. I am curious if anyone has actually done this tho.

We have a few FM docs with derm fellowship in S. Florida.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

We have a few FM docs with derm fellowship in S. Florida.

I edited, and I think I might know what your talking about now. See if above was what you meant.

 

[W19]

I edited, and I think I might know what your talking about now. See if above was what you meant.

Unaccredited yeah, but a FM physician who wants to treat derm only can do it, and will be reimbursed for his/her service.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Unaccredited yeah, but an FM physician who wants to treat derm only can do it, and will be reimbursed for his/her service.

so this: Detail -- AAFP
enables you to bill like Derm or will you get half the reimbursement kind of thing?

 

[W19]

so this: Detail -- AAFP
enables you to bill like Derm or will you get half the reimbursement kind of thing?

Probably not at the same rate with derm, but you will be able to see 40-50 patients per day and make tons of $$$$$... Again, there are a few FM docs in my town with derm fellowship who practice outpatient derm ONLY and don't try to hide that they are FM docs. They are still in business!

By the way, these 'derm' physicians are MD.

 

[Neopolymath]

Unaccredited Derm fellowship... I sure insurance will pay for that. I am curious if anyone has actually done this tho.

Edit: Unless your talking about Larkin doing the whole you do FM residency first, then you do derm. Thats not a fellowship I thought, just two residencies.

There is/was a 1 year 'rural derm fellowship' on the AAFP page, but it is not accredited from what I remember. So two different things.

The whole point of derm is to not take ****ty insurance and its inherent hassles. Anecdotally, I do know an old FM doc who did extra derm training and that is all he does.

 

[Spectreman]

That would have made it worse. The correct answer was you should have gone USMD. You can either try another cycle, or just give up and do something else. Dentistry is still available...

Oh it is? Oh good. Dentistry it is then, thanks!

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Oh it is? Oh good. Dentistry it is then, thanks!

Although it is tongue in cheek, I did actually know a guy who completed two years of medical school then quit to become a dentist. Dentistry has its own issues, but it has more opportunity for even the low end students for specialization IMO.

 

[Spectreman]

Although it is tongue in cheek, I did actually know a guy who completeled two years of medical school then quit to become a dentist. Wanted to be a facial surgeon, and his school let him switch to the field it was more likely to happen in. Dentistry has its own issues, but it has more opportunity for even the low end students IMO.

I’d go elbow deep in poop all day before spending my career in a mouth. I don’t think the outlook is nearly as gloomy as you and many others believe, but I’m not gunning for derm so I guess I should get off this thread.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I’d go elbow deep in poop all day before spending my career in a mouth. I don’t think the outlook is nearly as gloomy as you and many others believe, but I’m not gunning for derm so I guess I should get off this thread.

Who said I believe its gloomy? Its gonna be alright for me. Now 10 years from now? Who knows, but I should be out of debt by then and doing fine.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Dentistry has its own issues, but it has more opportunity for even the low end students for specialization IMO.

I dunno about that, I was talking to my DDS cousin over the break and I said that exact thing and he told me it’s simply because a fresh dental grad can still do orthodontics, take out wisdom teeth, etc. so basically a general dent can still “specialize”. He said the number of people who actually do a dental residency and truly become actual specialists is much lower than in medicine. Basically that there are a lot more general dentists out there than general medicine (FM) docs. The typically make less too. It definitely would be nice to be able to be a generalist and still be able to incorporate “specialty” type components to a medical practice like they do though. Dentistry has some nice perks IMO

 

[68PGunner]

I dunno about that, I was talking to my DDS cousin over the break and I said that exact thing and he told me it’s simply because a fresh dental grad can still do orthodontics, take out wisdom teeth, etc. so basically a general dent can still “specialize”. He said the number of people who actually do a dental residency and truly become actual specialists is much lower than in medicine. Basically that there are a lot more general dentists out there than general medicine (FM) docs. The typically make less too. It definitely would be nice to be able to be a generalist and still be able to incorporate “specialty” type components to a medical practice like they do though. Dentistry has some nice perks IMO

It’s harder to specialize in dentistry. Basically, top 25% or gtfo.

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

I think if you put together a derm-worthy app you should be able to match derm after the merger. Just realize that it's an uphill battle for anybody regardless of degree so you gotta bring your A-game. Also don't be picky about the program, even the MDs have to go where they can for that specialty, it'd be even moreso for you.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I dunno about that, I was talking to my DDS cousin over the break and I said that exact thing and he told me it’s simply because a fresh dental grad can still do orthodontics, take out wisdom teeth, etc. so basically a general dent can still “specialize”. He said the number of people who actually do a dental residency and truly become actual specialists is much lower than in medicine. Basically that there are a lot more general dentists out there than general medicine (FM) docs. The typically make less too. It definitely would be nice to be able to be a generalist and still be able to incorporate “specialty” type components to a medical practice like they do though. Dentistry has some nice perks IMO

They make less gross, but more per capita. Perhaps not at the corporate places, but its relatively easy to set up shop. And as you said, any dentist can basically just decide to to orthodontics. Why would you go to residency if you can just go to a weekend seminar and just do it on your own while getting paid?

This would be like FM docs just saying, you know what, I don't want to do family anymore I am just gonna start doing surgery, going to a weekend conference and then heading to the OR. It is absolutely harder to specialize as a physician.

Dentists have lots of procedures right out of the box, and a market that even when they do have insurance, end up paying 50% of the actual cost. And most Dentist just refuse cheap HMOs anyway. If a Dentist wants to do call and their own thing, they will absolutely out earn a typical FM doc.

 

[cgk]

anyone have any recent knowledge of Dermatology Residency Program at Larkin Community Hospital in South Miami. Pros or Cons?
thanks

With all the diverging banter on this thread, no one has answered my original question about impressions of Larkin's Dermatology residency Program. Does anyone have any information to share? Thanks!

 

[Spectreman]

With all the diverging banter on this thread, no one has answered my original question about impressions of Larkin's Dermatology residency Program. Does anyone have any information to share? Thanks!

I go to church with a current Derm resident at Larkin and he loves it. We also had the PD come speak at our school and he was really kind. Not much info, but it’s something. Best of luck.

 

[cgk]

I go to church with a current Derm resident at Larkin and he loves it. We also had the PD come speak at our school and he was really kind. Not much info, but it’s something. Best of luck.

thanks for the info. Would you mind sharing what medical school your friend graduated from?

 

[Spectreman]

thanks for the info. Would you mind sharing what medical school your friend graduated from?

He went to AZCOM, can’t speak to how great his scores were or any of that, I see him every week though if you want me to do any digging or see if he’s willing to chat you can DM me. I also distinctly remember the PD getting asked about research and he answered that he likes to look for a couple of case write-ups, but that’s all. That’s honestly all I remember.

 

[cableguy555]

anyone have any recent knowledge of Dermatology Residency Program at Larkin Community Hospital in South Miami. Pros or Cons?
thanks

Take this with a grain of salt. I volunteered at South Miami Hospital, which it literally across the street and the physicians there would refer those on Medicaid and undocumented status to Larkin. The interior of the hospital looks disgusting. Its overflowing with patients everywhere and it looks like a government medical center in India, trust me its not a pleasant experience. Be prepared to speak Spanish, I would be surprised if thats not a pre-req for the program, because no one speaks English in this area. On a side note, there were like 40 people applying for volunteering at South Miami for like 15 spots, and at Larkin they had numerous volunteering opportunities yet no one wanted to do it.

 

[cgk]

Take this with a grain of salt. I volunteered at South Miami Hospital, which it literally across the street and the physicians there would refer those on Medicaid and undocumented status to Larkin. The interior of the hospital looks disgusting. Its overflowing with patients everywhere and it looks like a government medical center in India, trust me its not a pleasant experience. Be prepared to speak Spanish, I would be surprised if thats not a pre-req for the program, because no one speaks English in this area. On a side note, there were like 40 people applying for volunteering at South Miami for like 15 spots, and at Larkin they had numerous volunteering opportunities yet no one wanted to do it.

Does anyone know which DO dermatology programs are the premier ones in nicer environments?

 

[Chibucks15]

Does anyone know which DO dermatology programs are the premier ones in nicer environments?

For Derm as a DO you can't be picky. It comes down to this....worrying about which program is 'good' now won't help. Bust your butt hardcore for the next 4 years, put together as great of an application as possible (boards, research all that jazz) and you'll stand a chance. If you really want Derm you gotta work to make it happen. It won't be at the top tier but you'll stand a chance

 

[cgk]

For Derm as a DO you can't be picky. It comes down to this....worrying about which program is 'good' now won't help. Bust your butt hardcore for the next 4 years, put together as great of an application as possible (boards, research all that jazz) and you'll stand a chance. If you really want Derm you gotta work to make it happen. It won't be at the top tier but you'll stand a chance

There still must be some sort of ranking among the small universe of DO dermatology programs. Does anyone have any opinions?

 

[Chibucks15]

There still must be some sort of ranking among the small universe of DO dermatology programs. Does anyone have any opinions?

There was but when you apply there won't be any DO derm programs...but alright I'll see myself out then I guess

 

[BorntobeDO?]

There still must be some sort of ranking among the small universe of DO dermatology programs. Does anyone have any opinions?

sure, ones with ACGME accreditation = the better ones, ones that are closing = everything else.

 

[cgk]

sure, ones with ACGME accreditation = the better ones, ones that are closing = everything else.

I just thought that some of the programs are known for having better reputations than the rest of the pack. Has anyone heard of any particular DO program that is known for having a particularly good reputation?

 

[Solodyn]

There is NO ranking among the DO Derm Programs. Anyone is lucky to just to get a spot. When I was going through it, no one bothers to compare. There maybe some programs known for better In-Service Exam Performances and their residents winning the Koprince Award (I got one ;-) ). If you have to push me for names of those programs, probably Sun Coast, PCOM, Hoffman's Program. But that is irrelevant now as they are all MD Programs now.

Tomorrow is the RC Meeting for Dermatology. All remaining DO Derm Programs are going up for review. I personally think it is likely that there will only be a handful (>5) of DO Derm Programs remaining after tomorrow. The rest will be "upgraded" to ACGME/MD Programs and no longer to be considered as DO Program again. The ones remaining as DO Derm Program (again, >5), will need special permission from AOA/AOCD to recruit for new resident for July 2019. I think many of them won't bother recruiting again. So the reputations among DO Derm Programs, at this point, is a pointless discussion.

cgk, I don't know where you are in the application process. But if you are applying for Derm as a DO, best of luck.

 

[Oh_Gee]

There is NO ranking among the DO Derm Programs. Anyone is lucky to just to get a spot. When I was going through it, no one bothers to compare. There maybe some programs known for better In-Service Exam Performances and their residents winning the Koprince Award (I got one ;-) ). If you have to push me for names of those programs, probably Sun Coast, PCOM, Hoffman's Program. But that is irrelevant now as they are all MD Programs now.

Tomorrow is the RC Meeting for Dermatology. All remaining DO Derm Programs are going up for review. I personally think it is likely that there will only be a handful (>5) of DO Derm Programs remaining after tomorrow. The ones remaining (again, >5), will need special permission from AOA/AOCD to recruit for new resident for July 2019. I think many of them won't bother recruiting again. So the reputations among DO Derm Programs, at this point, is a pointless discussion.

cgk, I don't know where you are in the application process. But if you are applying for Derm as a DO, best of luck.

let us know what happens

 

[Durty-Trixxx]

Tomorrow is the RC Meeting for Dermatology. All remaining DO Derm Programs are going up for review. I personally think it is likely that there will only be a handful (>5) of DO Derm Programs remaining after tomorrow. The ones remaining (again, >5), will need special permission from AOA/AOCD to recruit for new resident for July 2019. I think many of them won't bother recruiting again. So the reputations among DO Derm Programs, at this point, is a pointless discussion.

So sad ..... RIP, DO Derm programs

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So sad ..... RIP, DO Derm programs

I'm pretty sure he means they will get initial accreditation and they will cease to be "DO programs." I don't think he means that they will all be axed.

 

[Oh_Gee]

I'm pretty sure he means they will get initial accreditation and they will cease to be "DO programs." I don't think he means that they will all be axed.

what are the odds those programs will still take DO's? ....

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

what are the odds those programs will still take DO's? ....

Bare minimum they will give you a fair shake if you are qualified, and by qualified I mean you look like a derm applicant.

The former AOA program that merged with the Case Western University Hospital still has those seats reserved for DOs through an osteopathic track. It’s on the website.

 

[Solodyn]

The Cleveland Clinic Program is the only one I know of that has the "Osteopathic Recognition". That is the only way the program can have seats reserve for DOs. Even then, it is only 1-2 spots per year.

All the other previously DO Programs that achieved Initial Accreditation have accepted MD applicants. I am sure it is going to be a transitional process. But in the long run, I suspect the majority of the new residents will be MDs simply because of sheer number of applicants and quality of application. Any Ex-DO Program found accepting only DO students are at risk of being sued by MD candidates who cannot get in despite of having better stats.

The Program Directors of the current DO Programs are expected to receive the result of the meeting today around April 10 or 11. By then we will know how many DO Programs are left behind and how many "ascended" to the high plane of MD Dermatology Residency Program.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Any Ex-DO Program found accepting only DO students are at risk of being sued by MD candidates who cannot get in despite of having better stats.

Agree with everything you said but this isn’t true.

 

[Solodyn]

Agree with everything you said but this isn’t true.

Well, I am a member of resident selection committee of a "DO Derm Program", and I can tell you this is one of the concerns of our committee members on not picking MD applicants of DO applicants. There has been DO Derm Program getting threat of lawsuit in the past from applicants who did not get matched.

 

[Oh_Gee]

Well, I am a member of resident selection committee of a "DO Derm Program", and I can tell you this is one of the concerns of our committee members on not picking MD applicants of DO applicants. There has been DO Derm Program getting threat of lawsuit in the past from applicants who did not get matched.

what were the lawsuits about?

and just as an aside, there's a lot of MD residencies in lots of fields that don't take DO applicants. do those residencies ever get sued?

 

[W19]

what were the lawsuits about?

and just as an aside, there's a lot of MD residencies in lots of fields that don't take DO applicants. do those residencies ever get sued?

It's something that DO applicants should start doing IMO...

 

[Rekt]

Well, I am a member of resident selection committee of a "DO Derm Program", and I can tell you this is one of the concerns of our committee members on not picking MD applicants of DO applicants. There has been DO Derm Program getting threat of lawsuit in the past from applicants who did not get matched.

I could not care any less about Dermatology, but this is the dumbest **** I've ever heard. Some serious entitlement from those applicants.

 

[ortnakas]

Bare minimum they will give you a fair shake if you are qualified, and by qualified I mean you look like a derm applicant.

The former AOA program that merged with the Cleveland Clinic still has those seats reserved for DOs through an osteopathic track. It’s on the website.

Just want to clarify that this program is University Hospitals, not Cleveland Clinic. Easy to confuse outside of Ohio but the distinction’s important in Cleveland.

 

[cgk]

The Cleveland Clinic Program is the only one I know of that has the "Osteopathic Recognition". That is the only way the program can have seats reserve for DOs. Even then, it is only 1-2 spots per year.

All the other previously DO Programs that achieved Initial Accreditation have accepted MD applicants. I am sure it is going to be a transitional process. But in the long run, I suspect the majority of the new residents will be MDs simply because of sheer number of applicants and quality of application. Any Ex-DO Program found accepting only DO students are at risk of being sued by MD candidates who cannot get in despite of having better stats.

The Program Directors of the current DO Programs are expected to receive the result of the meeting today around April 10 or 11. By then we will know how many DO Programs are left behind and how many "ascended" to the high plane of MD Dermatology Residency Program.

So in your

The Cleveland Clinic Program is the only one I know of that has the "Osteopathic Recognition". That is the only way the program can have seats reserve for DOs. Even then, it is only 1-2 spots per year.

All the other previously DO Programs that achieved Initial Accreditation have accepted MD applicants. I am sure it is going to be a transitional process. But in the long run, I suspect the majority of the new residents will be MDs simply because of sheer number of applicants and quality of application. Any Ex-DO Program found accepting only DO students are at risk of being sued by MD candidates who cannot get in despite of having better stats.

The Program Directors of the current DO Programs are expected to receive the result of the meeting today around April 10 or 11. By then we will know how many DO Programs are left behind and how many "ascended" to the high plane of MD Dermatology Residency Program.

So in your opinion, will It be a more difficult achievement for a DO to match into dermatology in 2020 than it has been in the pre-merger days?