for those of you who chose an expensive dental school , how are you going to pay for it?

[finneganmurphy]

hello,
I have been fortunate enough to get into dental school, but I have a few more interviews left for this cycle. One thing that's been bugging me is the cost and the future financial debt that I will be in to afford dental school. What I am wondering is for those of you who are going to those expensive dental schools? What made you choose that school and how are you going to repay it back? Thank you

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[giannis]

What do you mean how? It's a matter of when

 

[Blueshirts]

This is both a good and valid question

 

[deleted903013]

Extremely wise you're asking this question before going. I think a big issue is the debt loads seen today really weren't around 5-10 years ago so there probably aren't a whole lot of people who went into 600k debt and already paid it off. Many will ride out government loans forgiveness like PAYE and then get hit by the tax bomb in 25 years which turns the amount of debt forgiven into taxable income. How much debt are you looking at?

 

[Biofilm preventer]

Extremely wise you're asking this question before going. I think a big issue is the debt loads seen today really weren't around 5-10 years ago so there probably aren't a whole lot of people who went into 600k debt and already paid it off. Many will ride out government loans forgiveness like PAYE and then get hit by the tax bomb in 25 years which turns the amount of debt forgiven into taxable income. How much debt are you looking at?

I do believe that PAYE option with the tax hit after 25 years is not as bad as we all think it is... hear me out.

By paying minimal monthly payments for 25 years, it gives you the opportunity to reap the benefits of a dentists salary. And in 25 years, after many years of making an average salary of 150-180,000 (which is likely worst case scenario, your income WILL increase throughout your years as you gain experience and your name gets around) you can save up a little each year and be ready to pay off the 100k in taxes after 25 years of working off of a dentists salary.

I could be wrong, anyone care to chime in?

 

[deleted903013]

I do believe that PAYE option with the tax hit after 25 years is not as bad as we all think it is... hear me out.

By paying minimal monthly payments for 25 years, it gives you the opportunity to reap the benefits of a dentists salary. And in 25 years, after many years of making an average salary of 150-180,000 (which is likely worst case scenario, your income WILL increase throughout your years as you gain experience and your name gets around) you can save up a little each year and be ready to pay off the 100k in taxes after 25 years of working off of a dentists salary.

I could be wrong, anyone care to chime in?

Remember, the interest on your loans will be accumulating at roughly 7% for 25 years, you'll be making monthly payments on your loans on top of saving money for the tax bomb. If you buy a practice, that's additional debt. Add a mortage, savings for retirement, and kids on top. Also, add in the psychological factor of being in an insane amount of debt for roughly a quarter of your life.

 

[finneganmurphy]

Extremely wise you're asking this question before going. I think a big issue is the debt loads seen today really weren't around 5-10 years ago so there probably aren't a whole lot of people who went into 600k debt and already paid it off. Many will ride out government loans forgiveness like PAYE and then get hit by the tax bomb in 25 years which turns the amount of debt forgiven into taxable income. How much debt are you looking at?

so I got into MWU-IL and I will be interviewing at MWU-AZ & Meharry in a couple of weeks. I haven't heard from other schools but I hopefully will hear from some more in these upcoming weeks. These schools all seem really pricey so I am trying to prepare myself and see what I should do.

 

[Biofilm preventer]

Remember, the interest on your loans will be accumulating at roughly 7% for 25 years, you'll be making monthly payments on your loans on top of saving money for the tax bomb. If you buy a practice, that's additional debt. Add a montage, savings for retirement, and kids on top. Also, add in the psychological factor of being in an insane amount of debt for roughly a quarter of your life.

If you have your own practice, then your income will be much greater than 150-180,000, making saving a lot easier.

also, lets just do some numbers.
If your salary is 200k, after taxes, depending where you live expect to bring home around 150-160 (being cautious here with the numbers just for arguments sake). Then you are paying around 20k in student loans.

That leaves around 120k to live off of a year.

120k over the course of 25 years should be enough to ease concern over that tax hit. However, you will likely make more than this salary and would'nt have to worry too much.

And if you own your own practice, and are a decent dentist, you are making much more than 200k. So definitely dont worry too much about that.

 

[Blueshirts]

If you have your own practice, then your income will be much greater than 150-180,000, making saving a lot easier.

also, lets just do some numbers.
If your salary is 200k, after taxes, depending where you live expect to bring home around 150-160 (being cautious here with the numbers just for arguments sake). Then you are paying around 20k in student loans.

That leaves around 120k to live off of a year.

120k over the course of 25 years should be enough to ease concern over that tax hit. However, you will likely make more than this salary and would'nt have to worry too much.

And if you own your own practice, and are a decent dentist, you are making much more than 200k. So definitely dont worry too much about that.

I was just reading a thread over on dental town that had a few people (40s age range) who were struggling with their businesses (profit roughly 100k). There is no guarantee that getting a license will net you even 200-250; there are many factors that can determine one’s income, life happens.

For the OP, you are asking the right questions, on SDN (other forums) and on the white coat investor, you will find some helpful information regarding finances, going through and learning/developing a plan prior to dental school will give you a major leg up. Having a plan/business plan will play a major role in your future success.

 

[Biofilm preventer]

I was just reading a thread over on dental town that had a few people (40s age range) who were struggling with their businesses (profit roughly 100k). There is no guarantee that getting a license will net you even 200-250; there are many factors that can determine one’s income, life happens.

For the OP, you are asking the right questions, on SDN (other forums) and on the white coat investor, you will find some helpful information regarding finances, going through and learning/developing a plan prior to dental school will give you a major leg up. Having a plan/business plan will play a major role in your future success.

I am sure there are people who struggle in their careers, even those that own their own practice. That happens in every career. However, if you are going to own your own practice, you are more likely than not to be successful and wealthy.

 

[giannis]

I was just reading a thread over on dental town that had a few people (40s age range) who were struggling with their businesses (profit roughly 100k). There is no guarantee that getting a license will net you even 200-250; there are many factors that can determine one’s income, life happens.

For the OP, you are asking the right questions, on SDN (other forums) and on the white coat investor, you will find some helpful information regarding finances, going through and learning/developing a plan prior to dental school will give you a major leg up. Having a plan/business plan will play a major role in your future success.

Biggest thing is that not everyone knows how to run a success business.

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

You should post this in the practicing dentists forum and see how they DID/ARE paying for it.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

If you have your own practice, then your income will be much greater

What do you think the bank is going to say when the OP walks in with $650,000+ in student loans at 7% interest? “Why sure! Here’s another $500,000 to start a practice! Can we interest you in another $400,000 for a home mortgage?”

Big Hoss

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

By paying minimal monthly payments for 25 years, it gives you the opportunity to reap the benefits of a dentists salary.

With $650,000 in student loans, their monthly minimum payment won’t even cover their accrued interest. So, that balance will snowball. Please allow me to introduce you to Mike Meru the orthodontist:

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

He started out with $600,000 in student loans and just paid the minimum which didn’t even cover his interest. He now owes over $1,000,000. When his loans are “forgiven” after twenty years, he’s projected to have $2,000,000 in loans. His tax bomb that year is going to be terrible.

Big Hoss

 

[deleted903013]

His tax bomb that year is going to be terrible.

If I remember correctly, his tax bomb will be in the ball park of 700-800k.

 

[Predent20192023]

Saw a YouTube video where an oral surgeon brought home around 16,000 a month. He continued to live like a resident for 24 months, after his residency, off of only 5,000 a month and putting the remaining 11,000 towards his loans and was done paying them off in just two years. Obviously depends how large your debt is and how much you’re getting paid but this seemed like a smart plan!

 

[deleted903013]

Saw a YouTube video where an oral surgeon brought home around 16,000 a month. He continued to live like a resident for 24 months, after his residency, off of only 5,000 a month and putting the remaining 11,000 towards his loans and was done paying them off in just two years. Obviously depends how large your debt is and how much you’re getting paid but this seemed like a smart plan!

Keep in mind though that he's an oral surgeon so he would only need to live off of 60k for two years. General dentists from unreasonably expensive schools would be living like broke students for much much longer. Being 40 years old and living like a college student does not sound like fun.

 

[finneganmurphy]

With a spouse and kids it’s not practical either

i am not a marriage and kids person so hopefully this will ease some of the financial ties

 

[Predent20192023]

If you’re worried about your dental school debt how do you plan on paying for a practice?

 

[finneganmurphy]

If you’re worried about your dental school debt how do you plan on paying for a practice?

that’s what i’m wondering. i’m trying to understand what i need to be considering when looking at these schools and their tuition. i am trying to be as aware as i possibly can

 

[2TH MVR]

If you have your own practice, then your income will be much greater than 150-180,000, making saving a lot easier.

also, lets just do some numbers.
If your salary is 200k, after taxes, depending where you live expect to bring home around 150-160 (being cautious here with the numbers just for arguments sake). Then you are paying around 20k in student loans.

That leaves around 120k to live off of a year.

120k over the course of 25 years should be enough to ease concern over that tax hit. However, you will likely make more than this salary and would'nt have to worry too much.

And if you own your own practice, and are a decent dentist, you are making much more than 200k. So definitely dont worry too much about that.

There is one thing missing from your assessment. As you get older and plan on a family ... your expenses will only RISE as your children get older. That's a fact. Have you factored in college for your future children? Cars and increased insurance premiums for the kids. Unexpected medical bills. Marriage expenses. On top of that ... you have maintenance on your future home. Retirement contributions. If you own your own practice ... guess what? Retirement funding is soley ON YOU. How about medical insurance for private practice owners? Extremely expensive if you are not part of a large Corp group plan. Seriously. Expenses will only RISE as you get older. Rise exponencially.

As for revenue during your practicing years. Remember the bell curve? Your income rises to a point. Then plateaus. Then goes down as we age. Not everyone, but most everyone. It gets harder and harder to work as hard to make more money as you get older.

It's easy when you're a single predent with few living expenses to extrapolate how much money you can live on in the future.

Bottom line. Don't underestimate that tax bomb and think you will have plenty of money to deal with it later.

 

[Biofilm preventer]

With $650,000 in student loans, their monthly minimum payment won’t even cover their accrued interest. So, that balance will snowball. Please allow me to introduce you to Mike Meru the orthodontist:

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

He started out with $600,000 in student loans and just paid the minimum which didn’t even cover his interest. He now owes over $1,000,000. When his loans are “forgiven” after twenty years, he’s projected to have $2,000,000 in loans. His tax bomb that year is going to be terrible.

Big Hoss

This guy is an orthodontist. What is his yearly income? Also, have you seenhis house? he is not living small and is living rather quite large. He is either being really silly with his expenses, or he is a successful orthodontist who has a steady and consistent income to lead him around for the rest of his career.

 

[Biofilm preventer]

What we need is somebody who graduated from the year 2015/16 and has been practicing since to share some insight on how they are faring. what there starting salary was and there projection for there salary as well as there student loan debt and how everything is turning out for them.

Many times, people who graduated from this early decade answer, but truth is that the debt has been much different since then, so maybe, by getting an answer from someone who has been practicing for the past few years will allow us to obtain a clearer perspective on the financial aspect of dentistry.

 

[2TH MVR]

We've had a few recent grads come here and describe how they're doing. But typically people don't like to post if they're having a rough time. Most sdn posters are masters of the passive brag lol.

 

[ToothJockey]

This guy is an orthodontist. What is his yearly income? Also, have you seenhis house? he is not living small and is living rather quite large. He is either being really silly with his expenses, or he is a successful orthodontist who has a steady and consistent income to lead him around for the rest of his career.

Just because he lives in a big house and drives a Tesla doesn’t mean he’s rich. It’s all just borrowed money anyways...

It’s all about net worth/age


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[Sunnysmilesdmd]

Posted this recently on another thread. My advice to anyone going to dental school now is to go through one of the military branches or apply to become a National Health Service Corps Scholar. They pay your tuition and give you a monthly stipend.

You work for them directly after school for a few years, gain experience, and no student loan debt!! Then after you’re done you have so many options.....work in private practice, buy a practice, and no stress of a huge student loan burden.

 

[UCLA MCDB]

Go to maine. Work there for 3 years to pay off my loan.
Going to use my old honda accord and rice and beans for three years.
Live frugally.

 

[jdent111]

It's funny you mention that.

A month or 2 ago, I said that if you live like a college student after graduating, then you can pay down your debts and save up for a down payment for a practice. I got blasted by multiple people saying there's no way a dentist would be willing to live like a college student for a few extra years. And yet here we are .... huh ....

Thats my plan tbh. All those people who say its impossible to pay off expensive dental schools are just people who want to live in a big house and drive a nice car from the start. All the dentists I've known have gone to expensive dental schools and paid it off in no time just living in a small apartment with his/her family and driving regular old cars.

 

[deleted903013]

Thats my plan tbh. All those people who say its impossible to pay off expensive dental schools are just people who want to live in a big house and drive a nice car from the start. All the dentists I've known have gone to expensive dental schools and paid it off in no time just living in a small apartment with his/her family and driving regular old cars.

Living in a tiny apartment is hardly going to make a dent in 600k debt compounding at 7%. It's not impossible to pay off. Nobody here is saying it is. What we're saying is add over half a million dollars of dental school debt to the basic adult life expenses mentioned previously in this thread, and paying off your loans will be a grueling and drawn out process. You may be a young and enthusiastic pre dent now. Will you also be in 10-15 years?

 

[jdent111]

Living in a tiny apartment is hardly going to make a dent in 600k debt compounding at 7%. It's not impossible to pay off. Nobody here is saying it is. What we're saying is add over half a million dollars of dental school debt to the basic adult life expenses mentioned previously in this thread, and paying off your loans will be a grueling and drawn out process. You may be a young and enthusiastic pre dent now. Will you also be in 10-15 years?

I mean if you live frugally and just focus on paying off your debt then im sure itll be fine. Of course, how well youre doing as a dentist also plays a factor though.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I mean if you live frugally and just focus on paying off your debt then im sure itll be fine. Of course, how well youre doing as a dentist also plays a factor though.

Big Hoss

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Living in a tiny apartment is hardly going to make a dent in 600k debt compounding at 7%.

That annual interest is the equivalent of buying a Mercedes C Class and then throwing it away.

Big Hoss

 

[finneganmurphy]

looks like I need to get ready to sign up for the HPSP next year. hopefully some more schools will contact me after my academic update

 

[ToothJockey]

Do y'all think the military will ever put a cap on how much they are willing to pay per student? There has to be a limit before it stops being profitable for the military I assume.

 

[Blueshirts]

HPSP is no where close to a gaurntee either, the 4 year scholarships are now very competitive, i believe less than 40% of navy applicants selected last year. And the 3 year scholarships are also competitive, look at army 3 year this year, 126 candidates for 10 spots.

 

[finneganmurphy]

HPSP is no where close to a gaurntee either, the 4 year scholarships are now very competitive, i believe less than 40% of navy applicants selected last year. And the 3 year scholarships are also competitive, look at army 3 year this year, 126 candidates for 10 spots.

sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like it was easy. I was being sarcastic :/

 

[sobertiger]

If you're not going with PAYE/REPAYE, you need to refinance. Do NOT go with the standard 10-year repayment plan. It's the worst way to do it.

 

[sobertiger]

I do believe that PAYE option with the tax hit after 25 years is not as bad as we all think it is... hear me out.

By paying minimal monthly payments for 25 years, it gives you the opportunity to reap the benefits of a dentists salary. And in 25 years, after many years of making an average salary of 150-180,000 (which is likely worst case scenario, your income WILL increase throughout your years as you gain experience and your name gets around) you can save up a little each year and be ready to pay off the 100k in taxes after 25 years of working off of a dentists salary.

I could be wrong, anyone care to chime in?

I think REPAYE/PAYE is a good way to go when taking inflation and investment return into account, but if you're going to a private school the tax bomb will be much higher than $100k.. It will probably be closer to $300k.

 

[Blueshirts]

sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like it was easy. I was being sarcastic :/

Oh sorry, not what i meant, i was just trying to put an add on comment because I know people will be reading this thread now and in the future, and should see some stats so that they can prepare because I know they won't go through the entire 2023 and 2024 HPSP threads. If you are trying to apply for the HPSP, good luck!

 

[mmfc]

I think REPAYE/PAYE is a good way to go when taking inflation and investment return into account, but if you're going to a private school the tax bomb will be much higher than $100k.. It will probably be closer to $300k.

Can you please explain what everyone means when saying tax bomb? thank you!

 

[ToothJockey]

Can you please explain what everyone means when saying tax bomb? thank you!

Student Loan Forgiveness Tax Bomb: What to Know Today

The student loan forgiveness tax bomb under an income-driven plan can be a huge burden. Here’s what might happen to this tax liability under President Biden.

www.studentloanplanner.com

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[mmfc]

Student Loan Forgiveness Tax Bomb: What to Know Today

The student loan forgiveness tax bomb under an income-driven plan can be a huge burden. Here’s what might happen to this tax liability under President Biden.

www.studentloanplanner.com

Sent from my iPhone using SDN

THANK YOU!

 

[pubhealthdent]

hello,
I have been fortunate enough to get into dental school, but I have a few more interviews left for this cycle. One thing that's been bugging me is the cost and the future financial debt that I will be in to afford dental school. What I am wondering is for those of you who are going to those expensive dental schools? What made you choose that school and how are you going to repay it back? Thank you

Public health has tons of loan repayments/loan forgiveness opportunities. Or there's the military.

I graduated with north of $500k. Wasnt picky on where I wanted to work. Found an FQHC where I am making $225k this year. Have NHSC S2S loan repayment, state loan repayment, and planning on forgiveness through PSLF. That route certainly isn't for everyone though

 

[Blueshirts]

Public health has tons of loan repayments/loan forgiveness opportunities. Or there's the military.

I graduated with north of $500k. Wasnt picky on where I wanted to work. Found an FQHC where I am making $225k this year. Have NHSC S2S loan repayment, state loan repayment, and planning on forgiveness through PSLF. That route certainly isn't for everyone though

Would you mind if I messaged you to ask questions regarding the process of getting into public health? Also your AMA was pretty good, thanks for helping contribute on the forum

 

[Lane138]

I graduated from dental school 3 years ago. I would not recommend anyone go to an expensive dental school IF they plan to completely rely on loans. You will come out with half a million dollars in loans growing at 5% and that is a BEAST to have to pay off using post-tax income. And it will double since if it doubles after 15 years. Especially if you're interested in specializing afterwards.

I was fortunate to come out with no undergraduate loans thanks to scholarships. My family helped me pay for a portion of dental school using money they saved up for my college. Then I worked part time all through dental school and lived frugally, causing my actual cost of living to be ~10-15k less than the school estimates. The rest I took out in federal loans. I did come out with a significant but manageable amount of loans, which I am paying off very aggressively every month and am on track to pay off in 5 years.

 

[Cold Front]

I graduated from dental school 3 years ago. I would not recommend anyone go to an expensive dental school IF they plan to completely rely on loans. You will come out with half a million dollars in loans growing at 5% and that is a BEAST to have to pay off using post-tax income. And it will double since if it doubles after 15 years. Especially if you're interested in specializing afterwards.

I was fortunate to come out with no undergraduate loans thanks to scholarships. My family helped me pay for a portion of dental school using money they saved up for my college. Then I worked part time all through dental school and lived frugally, causing my actual cost of living to be ~10-15k less than the school estimates. The rest I took out in federal loans. I did come out with a significant but manageable amount of loans, which I am paying off very aggressively every month and am on track to pay off in 5 years.

The interesting part of your story and post is “I graduated from dental school 3 years ago”. Tuitions and fees have gone up 3-5% each year since - and that’s “daily” compounding interest rate. In actual numbers, that’s somewhere between $50-100k increase in debt compared to yours. So that’s what pre-dents need to understand.


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[Lane138]

The interesting part of your story and post is “I graduated from dental school 3 years ago”. Tuitions and fees have gone up 3-5% each year since - and that’s “daily” compounding interest rate. In actual numbers, that’s somewhere between $50-100k increase in debt compared to yours. So that’s what pre-dents need to understand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Totally agree. That’s why I said half a million dollar of loans can be expected for anyone now planning dental school. When I was in (private) school the expected total COA was $350k and grew 3% every year. It’s financially doable but not fun for some time.

 

[deleted903013]

When I was in (private) school the expected total COA was $350k and grew 3% every year

What's sad is state schools are starting to cost 350k these days.

 

[Cold Front]

What's sad is state schools are starting to cost 350k these days.

Yes. That number will change to $400k+ in 3-4 years from now.


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[jinsonk42]

hello,
I have been fortunate enough to get into dental school, but I have a few more interviews left for this cycle. One thing that's been bugging me is the cost and the future financial debt that I will be in to afford dental school. What I am wondering is for those of you who are going to those expensive dental schools? What made you choose that school and how are you going to repay it back? Thank you

I asked one of the dentists I shadowed that how he pays off his loan (he was an NYU international student which means almost everything costs more than US citizen). He said you have to think the way that you are gonna pay off debts until you die. He said he is fine with it because earning a lot of money is not his goal. He genuinely enjoys being a dentist and helping people. So it kind of inspired me in a good way because I was worried about these financial debts even before accepting into dental schools lol

I also believed that it is also a matter of age and where you stand. Here are my a few "IDEAL" hopes:

1. I am not big into having a nice house or a nice car. I would be just fine to live in an apartment for awhile if I need to after graduating the school.
2. I HOPE my future spouse has an income to sustain at least two of us so that I can pay off debts with my income until we have kids. After kids, I probably have to refinance and all that. By that time, I HOPE I gain some experiences and name out there so I get a little tiny bit more income and less burden lol.

But one downside of this hope is that I set my standard so high for my future spouse haha and plan/want to get married after 30.
When I say this to my family and friends, they always say you never know what will happen in your life regarding the relationship. Then I always say that if you think flip, you never know what will happen in and after dental school. You may rock in the class and got some scholarship or after graduate dental school, you may be hired with a decent amount of income than you expected.

I got into the dental school that has about a little more than $500k and I have to take a 100% loan. Yes I am worried about money and all that because that is the reality. But I also believe that I will figure out when the time comes lol hopefully I make good connections in school and get some advice and help from the others. Or I can get some ideas even in this thread how the other people pay off debts after school haha
I may be a little more positive than the other people but it for sure helps me ease my mind