Forensic Psychiatrist Shot Dead Outside of Office

[Madden007]

Terrible News. This is a sobering reminder of the dangers of our work.

Forensic psychiatrist who worked on JonBenet Ramsey case shot dead outside Arizona office - NY Daily News

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[NontradCA]

That’s terrible. I was shot at during one of psych rotations this past year, and it’s one of the surreal things you wouldn’t think would happen to you. I think it’s important to be vigilant, and prepare for these kinds of things.

 

[Merely]

That’s terrible. I was shot at during one of psych rotations this past year, and it’s one of the surreal things you wouldn’t think would happen to you. I think it’s important to be vigilant, and prepare for these kinds of things.

You were shot at!!?? Omfg that’s terrifying can you provide more info!??

 

[PistolPete]

That’s terrible. I was shot at during one of psych rotations this past year, and it’s one of the surreal things you wouldn’t think would happen to you. I think it’s important to be vigilant, and prepare for these kinds of things.

How do you prepare? By wearing a bullet proof vest?!

 

[NontradCA]

How do you prepare? By wearing a bullet proof vest?!

Well for one thing, people didn’t know what to do. Panic buttons were pushed, drawing people to the shooter. Patients were left... I think drills would be beneficial. I mean it’s sad to say but this is the world we’re living in

 

[notdeadyet]

Sympathies, but with all due respect, we don’t know yet if this had anything to do with psychiatry.

 

[NontradCA]

You were shot at!!?? Omfg that’s terrifying can you provide more info!??

It was someone that had a negative experience in the psych ER, where he was only seen once. The psych ER security did not carry firearms, due to previously incidents of excessive force. Came in, shot security guard, shot through window of reception desk. Went outside, shot at patients, myself through window. Came back inside, killed himself.

But, to be clear this sort of thing does not happen a lot. However, I think it happens enough to where people should be prepared. I’ve been in similar situations before, and because of prior experience, drills, was able to remain relatively calm and take patients to safety, tell them to get down when being fired at, etc.

 

[PikminOC]

Sympathies, but with all due respect, we don’t know yet if this had anything to do with psychiatry.

This forensic psychiatrist may have ticked someone off in his work but we need more info

 

[ryerica22]

It was someone that had a negative experience in the psych ER, where he was only seen once. The psych ER security did not carry firearms, due to previously incidents of excessive force. Came in, shot security guard, shot through window of reception desk. Went outside, shot at patients, myself through window. Came back inside, killed himself.

But, to be clear this sort of thing does not happen a lot. However, I think it happens enough to where people should be prepared. I’ve been in similar situations before, and because of prior experience, drills, was able to remain relatively calm and take patients to safety, tell them to get down when being fired at, etc.

Wow. I'm a bit shocked that a Psych ER In this day and age does not have more security.

 

[PikminOC]

High-profile forensic psychiatrist who aided the JonBenet Ramsey investigation shot dead | Daily Mail Online

 

[PikminOC]

Psychiatrist in JonBenét Ramsey case among four people killed in Arizona, police say - CNN
2 Paralegals and 1 other man also may have been killed by the same guy

 

[nexus73]

Sorry to add to the gossip/speculation, but if this was related to his forensic work, I wonder if he focused on criminal evals mainly, or if he was doing personal injury work, too. If the latter, someone could be extremely angry at him for a large financial judgment against them.

 

[PsyDr]

Suspected killer found dead after 4 linked murders in Arizona: Police

Presumed killer found dead. Thought to have been motivated by "family issues".

 

[PikminOC]

Dwight Lamon Jones’ Ex Wife Connie Jones: 5 Fast Facts | Heavy.com

 

[Merely]

TLDR: the psychiatrist was murdered because he testified against the murderer during his divorce 7 years ago...damn forensic psychiatry is dangerous

 

[psyguru]

I heard child custody cases are dangerous...I can see how divorce cases could be dangerous.

I think ER psychiatry sounds more dangerous than forensic psychiatry.

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[psyguru]

I heard child custody cases are dangerous...I can see how divorce cases could be dangerous.

I think ER psychiatry sounds more dangerous than forensic psychiatry.

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Actually this case involved child custody...I intended to avoid custody evals as they are contentious and death penalty evals for ethical reasons.

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[whopper]

I've worked in forensic psych for years in a jail, in a forensic unit and doing private cases.

I've seen no one specifically harmed outside of work. The in the forensic hospital usually most people, if you've worked there for years, get punched at least once. I knew 1 psychiatrist and she got punched, it tore her carotid, she experienced headaches but only thought it was related to the hit and later had severe brain-damage. I've not yet seen one 1 person have that nightmare case where a patient or someone they evaluated seek revenge.

My worst case scenario, I thought some guy might go after me but he literally died days after his discharge. I also wasn't confident he'd stalk me but I figured if anyone would do it, he would be the first one. The guy I'm talking about got off on pissing people off but never was violent ever, but his pissing people off got to extreme and sadistic levels. E.g. he'd call people telling them their kids were in danger.

I found ER psych more dangerous because patients are more often acutely agitated. Despite this we all know there's a risk, and I wouldn't be surprised if more bad things happened given that the Internet gives continuing access of people to people indefinitely.

A big reason why I'm completely content not doing much forensic work these days is because of this exact type of situation. In my 30s, having no kids, if some guy threatened me, of course yeah it'd bother me, but then I'd just prepare if I thought it was going to happen, e.g. buy a gun, better security etc. With kids you're vulnerability is more than 100X worse and so too are your worries. Any good parent will worry about their kids just hurting themselves over menial things such as falling down stairs, so add to it the over-the-top outrageous things like a serial rapist you testified on screaming, "I'm not going to forget this" at you going to prison for 10 years, but 5 years later he's let out early for good behavior just doesn't exactly make you feel better.

 

[WingedOx]

 

[birchswing]

They buried the lede. Last two paragraphs:

Kolbe said she was “absolutely appalled at the state of gun availability” in Arizona.

“This guy was not a mystery, and I think that’s an important piece here,” Kolbe said. “How much more information do you need about somebody to know they’re a threat?”​

 

[Candidate2017]

They buried the lede. Last two paragraphs:

Kolbe said she was “absolutely appalled at the state of gun availability” in Arizona.

“This guy was not a mystery, and I think that’s an important piece here,” Kolbe said. “How much more information do you need about somebody to know they’re a threat?”​

AK-47s are not readily available in France. Somehow folks on the extreme Islamist watch list seem to be able to get their hands on them and mow down hundreds of Parisians.

 

[uname943]

They buried the lede. Last two paragraphs:

Kolbe said she was “absolutely appalled at the state of gun availability” in Arizona.

“This guy was not a mystery, and I think that’s an important piece here,” Kolbe said. “How much more information do you need about somebody to know they’re a threat?”​

Thanks for pointing that out. It's ridiculous that patient sees me and increases my liability but refuses to decrease easily modifiable risk factors. In fact, some patients will get angry at me just for me doing my job and asking about lethal means including firearms.

Also for safety, I think that parts of forensics may actually be safer. Like prison telepsych where you do srictly med management and aren't involved in any other key decision making.

 

[NontradCA]

AK-47s are not readily available in France. Somehow folks on the extreme Islamist watch list seem to be able to get their hands on them and mow down hundreds of Parisians.

I’m pretty liberal, but I don’t think gun control is the answer. At least not the only answer. The guy who tried to kill me was out on bail for shooting someone. He didn’t get his gun legally, obviously.

 

[nexus73]

A forensic psychiatrist being a key reason someone is losing custody of their kids is a risky situation. Especially considering the types of people who aren't able to settle on a reasonable custody agreement independently. People who need the courts to set up custody agreements are often pretty unstable people with a slew of cluster B personality disorders combined with significant substance use.

 

[PikminOC]

And the killer proved the psychiatrist was right all along about him

 

[notdeadyet]

TLDR: the psychiatrist was murdered because he testified against the murderer during his divorce 7 years ago...damn forensic psychiatry is dangerous

Source?

If I get taken out by a patient, it’s statistically MUCH more likely to be my daily practice than my forensic consults. I’m pretty sure attacks are much more likely to come from the meth-intoxicated dude or the raging PD case that I denied admission to.

In most forensic work, criminal and civil, participants (rightly) view you as a very small cog in a very large machine. A disgruntled defendant is statistically most likely to go after their own lawyer. Followed, by judge, prosecutor, etc. Forensic psychiatrist is probably somewhere between baliff and court reporter.

 

[st2205]

Source?

If I get taken out by a patient, it’s statistically MUCH more likely to be my daily practice than my forensic consults. I’m pretty sure attacks are much more likely to come from the meth-intoxicated dude or the raging PD case that I denied admission to.

In most forensic work, criminal and civil, participants (rightly) view you as a very small cog in a very large machine. A disgruntled defendant is statistically most likely to go after their own lawyer. Followed, by judge, prosecutor, etc. Forensic psychiatrist is probably somewhere between baliff and court reporter.

It was in one of those lengthy articles posted above. He provided an evaluation in the divorce and everyone that got killed was connected to the divorce.

 

[nexus73]

Source?

If I get taken out by a patient, it’s statistically MUCH more likely to be my daily practice than my forensic consults. I’m pretty sure attacks are much more likely to come from the meth-intoxicated dude or the raging PD case that I denied admission to.

In most forensic work, criminal and civil, participants (rightly) view you as a very small cog in a very large machine. A disgruntled defendant is statistically most likely to go after their own lawyer. Followed, by judge, prosecutor, etc. Forensic psychiatrist is probably somewhere between baliff and court reporter.

I agree it's statistically more likely to be a patient you're treating. But this is probably the one type of forensic case with significantly elevated risk. The psychiatrist essentially said the guy was dangerous and he lost custody of his kids. That's a huge blow to most people.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I think this again just plays into the misperception of psychiatry as some sort of “dangerous” field because of all the “crazy people”.

Emergency room doctors and nurses are assualted on a much more frequent basis than psychiatrists. Even general medicine floor nurses are assaulted pretty frequently. Hell, people come back and shoot surgeons because they didn’t like the way their/their family members operation went.