Former Army Medic - need help devising a plan

[LineMedic]

Hello all,

I've been scrolling the forums for about two weeks to try and learn from other's experiences and help devise a plan for myself. FYI this will be pretty long.

Here's my plan so far. I'm thinking of going to Penn State Univ. - Brandywine. It's close to me and seems to have a decent curriculum. https://rap.psu.edu/recommended-academic-plan-biology-vertebrate-physiology-option-brandywine
I get the feeling that this course load being heavy in the beginning is to weed people out a bit. Thoughts? Also, this course schedule doesn't have courses over the summer months. I am considering taking courses, mostly gen eds, at community college to speed up the process. Goal would be to try and graduate in <4 years.

I'm a little worried about math since it was my weakest subject in HS, so I plan on going to a local community college this summer. I plan on taking algebra 1&2, English, and a basic science course to refresh those areas. Already checked with Penn and the credits should transfer although they may or may not apply towards my degree.

I am aware that although my past experience is helpful in a PS / essay capacity, I would need to spend some time volunteering / shadowing. My Dad's wife is a RN at a local hospital and has offered to get me in touch with some MDs if need be.

Kind of worried about getting research done since this is a small satellite campus I may have to look elsewhere. I've also never been a part of a research study etc. not sure how that works.

----

Here's a bit of background on me:

I am 32 almost 33 (April)

Prior schooling:
I don't have a degree just miscellaneous course work from the Army and a few courses done at UMUC. A&P 1&2 with labs, micro bio, bio 1&2 with labs, a couple of English credits. All done over ten years ago so, they will most likely be converted into EC. Total credits approximately 50-60.

Prior medical certifications held:
EMT-B certification- expired
CAOHC - hear observation tech cert (not sure if this expires)
CPR - instructor - expired
BTLS - expired
ACLS - expired

Army awards and accolades:
EFMB - Expert Field Medical Badge
ARCOM - for serving in Iraq
AAM (3) - 1 for lifesaving
AGCM
COA (3) - 1 for lifesaving
OSR (2) - Iraq 12mo, Korea 36mo
Honor Grad status from Army Medic school. Was ranked 2nd of 250+ medics

Positions held / experience:
EFMB - instructor
CLS - senior instructor taught 300+ students 98% pass rate
Unit level Med logistics NCOIC
Hearing conservation NCOIC
Treatment Room NCOIC
Immunizations
ED (Camp Casey) - did a rotation for 6 months 1000hrs.
OB rotation
Served 5 years as a medic and logged 1000s of hours of clinic and field experience.

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[ROSC]

Welcome aboard !!!
I can not speak from experience in this facet of your application. However, the advice I will offer should at the very least be a staple of food for thought.
First off I'm sure you've already referred to the Military section of the forum.
You're absolutely welcome anywhere on the forum, its just that some of those guys and gals in there have some great advice and can speak from 100% experience.
I don't know what many of your accomplishments are, and that does not by any means take away from any of them. I applaud you for your accomplishments and thank you for serving our great country.
You've made sacrifices that others choose to overlook and even if forced could not fathom.

You have a quite a few things working in your favor. Starting from the beginning is one of them. It may not feel like it right away, but if you know that Medicine is for you; then its a blessing in disguise. Get a tutor anytime you need, reference youtube, the khan academy, and so many other invaluable resources that are on the net these days. What used to take us an hour to break down during self study time we can now find the answers and complete explanation in minutes on the net. Study, do well in your prereqs, and on the MCAT of course, your PS along with your interview will be your deciding factor. If they meet you and think to themselves "This person will make a great physician one day" Then that's it, you're in. Use your experiences to your advantage, you'll have to sell yourself. Make them want you, find your marketable attributes and polish them.

Others have mentioned to me that as medics we can often be categorized by the term "key holed". So in these next 4 years broaden your horizon, outside of the Service and Emergency medicine. Go shadow as many Physicians as you can. Be able to explain backwards and forwards why you can't see your self doing anything else besides practicing medicine.

IMHO

Above average GPA and MCAT= you're admitted

Take care

 

[LineMedic]

Welcome aboard !!!
I can not speak from experience in this facet of your application. However, the advice I will offer should at the very least be a staple of food for thought.
First off I'm sure you've already referred to the Military section of the forum.
You're absolutely welcome anywhere on the forum, its just that some of those guys and gals in there have some great advice and can speak from 100% experience.
I don't know what many of your accomplishments are, and that does not by any means take away from any of them. I applaud you for your accomplishments and thank you for serving our great country.
You've made sacrifices that others choose to overlook and even if forced could not fathom.

You have a quite a few things working in your favor. Starting from the beginning is one of them. It may not feel like it right away, but if you know that Medicine is for you; then its a blessing in disguise. Get a tutor anytime you need, reference youtube, the khan academy, and so many other invaluable resources that are on the net these days. What used to take us an hour to break down during self study time we can now find the answers and complete explanation in minutes on the net. Study, do well in your prereqs, and on the MCAT of course, your PS along with your interview will be your deciding factor. If they meet you and think to themselves "This person will make a great physician one day" Then that's it, you're in. Use your experiences to your advantage, you'll have to sell yourself. Make them want you, find your marketable attributes and polish them.

Others have mentioned to me that as medics we can often be categorized by the term "key holed". So in these next 4 years broaden your horizon, outside of the Service and Emergency medicine. Go shadow as many Physicians as you can. Be able to explain backwards and forwards why you can't see your self doing anything else besides practicing medicine.

IMHO

Above average GPA and MCAT= you're admitted

Take care

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I was starting to think having to basically start over would be a detriment, but I like how you put it. Thanks for the online tutoring suggestion too, I will definitely check it out. Penn state - Brandywine, has tutoring available from 9-5 mon-fri, I plan on using it as much as possible.

 

[devdoc90]

I was in a similar situation a few years back. I found a Princeton review book on personal essay that was really helpful and informative for the whole process of applying to med schools.
I did six yrs as a Corpsman, and have many similar experiences.
Good luck to you, it's a long road of ups and downs!
What helps me is visualizing the ultimate goal of becoming a physician.


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[esob]

Military will help but it won't substitute for GPA and MCAT. Luckily you're young enough to not face the sort of age discrimination some of us other vets will be running into at least

 

[68PGunner]

Hello all,

I've been trolling the forums for about two weeks to try and learn from other's experiences and help devise a plan for myself. FYI this will be pretty long.

Here's my plan so far. I'm thinking of going to Penn State Univ. - Brandywine. It's close to me and seems to have a decent curriculum. https://rap.psu.edu/recommended-academic-plan-biology-vertebrate-physiology-option-brandywine
I get the feeling that this course load being heavy in the beginning is to weed people out a bit. Thoughts? Also, this course schedule doesn't have courses over the summer months. I am considering taking courses, mostly gen eds, at community college to speed up the process. Goal would be to try and graduate in <4 years.

I'm a little worried about math since it was my weakest subject in HS, so I plan on going to a local community college this summer. I plan on taking algebra 1&2, English, and a basic science course to refresh those areas. Already checked with Penn and the credits should transfer although they may or may not apply towards my degree.

I am aware that although my past experience is helpful in a PS / essay capacity, I would need to spend some time volunteering / shadowing. My Dad's wife is a RN at a local hospital and has offered to get me in touch with some MDs if need be.

Kind of worried about getting research done since this is a small satellite campus I may have to look elsewhere. I've also never been a part of a research study etc. not sure how that works.

----

Here's a bit of background on me:

I am 32 almost 33 (April)

Prior schooling:
I don't have a degree just miscellaneous course work from the Army and a few courses done at UMUC. A&P 1&2 with labs, micro bio, bio 1&2 with labs, a couple of English credits. All done over ten years ago so, they will most likely be converted into EC. Total credits approximately 50-60.

Prior medical certifications held:
EMT-B certification- expired
CAOHC - hear observation tech cert (not sure if this expires)
CPR - instructor - expired
BTLS - expired
ACLS - expired

Army awards and accolades:
EFMB - Expert Field Medical Badge
ARCOM - for serving in Iraq
AAM (3) - 1 for lifesaving
AGCM
COA (3) - 1 for lifesaving
OSR (2) - Iraq 12mo, Korea 36mo
Honor Grad status from Army Medic school. Was ranked 2nd of 250+ medics

Positions held / experience:
EFMB - instructor
CLS - senior instructor taught 300+ students 98% pass rate
Unit level Med logistics NCOIC
Hearing conservation NCOIC
Treatment Room NCOIC
Immunizations
ED (Camp Casey) - did a rotation for 6 months 1000hrs.
OB rotation
Served 5 years as a medic and logged 1000s of hours of clinic and field experience.

Were you able to get any VA disability rating? If so, you can get your undergrad paid for by the post 9/11 and your entire medical study paid for by Rehab Voc.

At this point, you don't need to even worry about volunteering or ECs. You need to finish your degree and destroy your prereq classes.

Lastly, you don't need to repeat any of your science classes. You just need to take higher science classes and do well on them. When you start prepping for the MCAT, you will relearn all materials anyway. There's no point to retake any of those classes.

Feel free to PM for questions. I was once an enlisted soldier in the Army.

 

[LineMedic]

Were you able to get any VA disability rating? If so, you can get your undergrad paid for by the post 9/11 and your entire medical study paid for by Rehab Voc.

At this point, you don't need to even worry about volunteering or ECs. You need to finish your degree and destroy your prereq classes.

Lastly, you don't need to repeat any of your science classes. You just need to take higher science classes and do well on them. When you start prepping for the MCAT, you will relearn all materials anyway. There's no point to retake any of those classes.

Feel free to PM for questions. I was once an enlisted soldier in the Army.

No, I don't have any disability. My thought was to take out loans for under-grad and then try to go to med school on the post 9/11. All the top notch private universities don't participate though. Then again, I did only look at a few and getting in to one would be like hitting the lottery.

 

[LineMedic]

Small update. Over the last two days I've been enrolling in school and working out a plan. I went and visited Penn-State - Brandywine and the academic advisor there was awesome. He suggested doing 2-3 semesters at a local community college. He pulled up their course requirements and the community colleges classes that are available for transfer credit and worked out a plan so I know specifically what classes to take.

I then went to the community college and enrolled and took a placement test. I didn't qualify to go straight in to pre-calculus, but I did test on a college level for math, reading and writing. I have to start at college algebra and go from there. So, it looks like I will have to do 2-3 semesters of math before I can hit the harder courses for pre-reqs. I can also start right away on some of the other science and gen-ed courses.

 

[Derv]

Do you have any contact with any of the docs you worked with in the military? Keeping in touch with them, especially if they worked closely with you, could be a great asset to your application.

 

[medic86]

No, I don't have any disability. My thought was to take out loans for under-grad and then try to go to med school on the post 9/11. All the top notch private universities don't participate though. Then again, I did only look at a few and getting in to one would be like hitting the lottery.

Post 9/11 works at every medical school. It's just that some private schools don't participate in the Yellow Ribbon Program, which means the entirety of tuition wouldn't be covered at that particular school.

Small update. Over the last two days I've been enrolling in school and working out a plan. I went and visited Penn-State - Brandywine and the academic advisor there was awesome. He suggested doing 2-3 semesters at a local community college. He pulled up their course requirements and the community colleges classes that are available for transfer credit and worked out a plan so I know specifically what classes to take.

I then went to the community college and enrolled and took a placement test. I didn't qualify to go straight in to pre-calculus, but I did test on a college level for math, reading and writing. I have to start at college algebra and go from there. So, it looks like I will have to do 2-3 semesters of math before I can hit the harder courses for pre-reqs. I can also start right away on some of the other science and gen-ed courses.

The good news is that more and more medical schools are removing their calculus requirement. Calculus is also not a requirement for any of the other prerequisites.

Good luck! If you have any questions, feel free to pm me!

 

[LineMedic]

Do you have any contact with any of the docs you worked with in the military? Keeping in touch with them, especially if they worked closely with you, could be a great asset to your application.

I've considered this, unfortunately I haven't kept up with them. The two providers that I worked most closely with were PAs, so I'm not sure if their reccomedations would hold as much weight since they weren't MDs. However, they were my direct line medical supervisors for long periods of time and trusted me with a larger scope than a lot of my fellow medics. I could most likely find them through various means if necessary.

 

[medic86]

I've considered this, unfortunately I haven't kept up with them. The two providers that I worked most closely with were PAs, so I'm not sure if their reccomedations would hold as much weight since they weren't MDs. However, they were my direct line medical supervisors for long periods of time and trusted me with a larger scope than a lot of my fellow medics. I could most likely find them through various means if necessary.

Those PAs you've previously worked with would make excellent LOR writers, imo.

 

[68PGunner]

Those PAs you've previously worked with would make excellent LOR writers, imo.

For PA school.

For med school, you nee a MD/DO letter.

 

[Grunt2doc]

Sup doc! I'm just finishing my undergrad and attending UAMS this fall, I might be able to offer so insight to your journey from my experiences! I served 4 years active and 4 reserve(some while in undergrad). I took very basic courses in my 1st year: College algebra, English Comp, Intro Chemistry etc (I was a terrible high school student, like 1.0gpa type). But the discipline I learned in my military time, as I am sure you learned, really made a difference and I was able to make it through them (I thought I was bad at math, but made it through Calculus 2 and I took that for fun). I was double majoring in Chemistry/Biology before I landed on just biology to make my course load easier.

Anyway, I shadowed my Dad since I am in a rural area and the local docs didnt have time to let me shadow them (He is an optometrist, which I found out doesnt really count for med school), and participated in a health coaching program for people that are deemed "expensive for the hospital", but that was the extent of my volunteer/EC work. In my med school interview it seemed like they were more impressed by my leadership skills and life experience, both of which you probably have in abundance. I don't think you need to shadow much unless you have free time you want to kill, your past experience in the clinic should shine for you. I would focus on your GPA and kill the MCAT, that should really ll you need unless you are shooting for the top teir schools imo. For LOR's my school had a Pre-Med Committee that writes the LOR to AAMC/AMCAS, you might see if your school does that.

I felt I had subpar stats but I made it: 3.5gpa, 500MCAT, lots of leadership and life experience(it matters more than you think). Let me know if I can help you out in anyway!

 

[LineMedic]

Sup doc! I'm just finishing my undergrad and attending UAMS this fall, I might be able to offer so insight to your journey from my experiences! I served 4 years active and 4 reserve(some while in undergrad). I took very basic courses in my 1st year: College algebra, English Comp, Intro Chemistry etc (I was a terrible high school student, like 1.0gpa type). But the discipline I learned in my military time, as I am sure you learned, really made a difference and I was able to make it through them (I thought I was bad at math, but made it through Calculus 2 and I took that for fun). I was double majoring in Chemistry/Biology before I landed on just biology to make my course load easier.

Anyway, I shadowed my Dad since I am in a rural area and the local docs didnt have time to let me shadow them (He is an optometrist, which I found out doesnt really count for med school), and participated in a health coaching program for people that are deemed "expensive for the hospital", but that was the extent of my volunteer/EC work. In my med school interview it seemed like they were more impressed by my leadership skills and life experience, both of which you probably have in abundance. I don't think you need to shadow much unless you have free time you want to kill, your past experience in the clinic should shine for you. I would focus on your GPA and kill the MCAT, that should really ll you need unless you are shooting for the top teir schools imo. For LOR's my school had a Pre-Med Committee that writes the LOR to AAMC/AMCAS, you might see if your school does that.

I felt I had subpar stats but I made it: 3.5gpa, 500MCAT, lots of leadership and life experience(it matters more than you think). Let me know if I can help you out in anyway!

Thank you so much for the offer of assistance. I will gladly take you up on it if I think of anything that comes along down the road. I'm presently enrolled in my local community college and going on Tuesday to select classes etc. Due to having to work full-time, I'm only going to start off with 3 courses and adjust fire from there.

Like you, I barely passed highschool. However, I did really well on my placement test in Reading and writing; so-so in math. They said they can place me if I want in higher level like English 102, or a lit class, but will have to start at college algebra.

Good to hear that you made it into med school, congrats! Knock 'em dead! Oh wait, maybe that's not such a good idea haha. Any way, good luck.

 

[Darth Doc]

Military will help but it won't substitute for GPA and MCAT. Luckily you're young enough to not face the sort of age discrimination some of us other vets will be running into at least

I applied to medical school at the age of... 35+. My military experience helped me during my interviews. Some schools are very military friendly, so don't assume there will be age discrimination!!

 

[psychic_detective]

LineMedic,

Another strategy I suggest is to not do all you basic classes right away. I've met so many people who did that and they seem overburdened in their last 3 semesters. Myself, I have saved a few "easy" classes for my last year, mixing biochem 2 with art 101, or any other senior level bio class with philosophy. It makes for a less stressful semester. Especially for weeks like I just had where 3 classes had exams, and I had the mcat on Friday. lol.

Edit: also look into what university you will transfer to and what med schools you will be applying to. For my only math class I took stats and a lot of schools I've noticed are requiring stats. It is a very helpful course if you already have a basic understanding of algebra, so maybe look into that if you are not a math whiz.

 

[deleted480308]

And worry about grades more than speed. 6yrs with a 3.8 will get you to med school faster than 4 yrs with a 2.9 (because the latter won't get you in at all)

 

[Grunt2doc]

Oh and for the post 9/11 bill I don't think that will help as much in med school. It will only cover the cost of the most expensive public school in the state. For my undergrad that equated to $17500 and the school was a yellow ribbon school, so they matched up to $6000. Looking at the VA website shows that tuition is capped at ~$21000 a year+ book stipend and housing allowance(as an E-5 with dependents). I don't think that completely cover the tuition of any med school, so you will have to take some loans out for both.

I used my gi bill in undergrad so I didn't have to worry about working, and in med school you can take out a loan for cost of living,

 

[Grunt2doc]

The GI bill will cover the full tuition at any public medical school.

http://www.benefits.va.gov/GIBILL/resources/benefits_resources/rates/ch33/ch33rates080115.asp

I think you're right for the in-state, but I got the impression he wasn't aiming for an in-state school that's why I mentioned it was capped around $21k

 

[MusicDOc124]

Also, see the link in my signature for Ch 31. GI Bill in many cases will covers the costs, but not necessarily if its out of state, no yellow ribbon, or private. Also, GI Bill is only 36 months, and med school will probably be about 44 ish give or take, not to mention if you use anything for undergrad.

So click the link, and feel free to message me if you feel the need, or comment in the forum!

 

[Marine2MD]

True that it only covers 36 months but depending on the payment plan and the school it can be covered for the entire four years of school. There a few service members who were able to do that somewhere in Pennsylvania. Just talk to the Financial Aid department and the VA Authorizer at the school when you get accepted. You can likely get all of the tuition covered but only get 36 months of the BAH payments.

 

[Marine2MD]

Federal law requires any public institution to grant a VA-benefits-using-person IS tuition. 21k a year is for private schools.
For example, the GI-Bill would cover full tuition at University of Maryland for a Texas resident, but would only cover 21k a year for a DC resident at George Washington U.

The last transition readiness seminar (new tamps/taps class) accessing higher education track (Jan 16) mentioned that some schools can actually skirt around the rule by placing certain additional requirements; e.g. Veteran must establish residency within the state of whatever within 3 years of separation date. He mentioned it is something specific to certain states, I want to say he used New Mexico in his example. Sound familiar or anyone experience it?

 

[Marine2MD]

I just found that ETSU kind of does the same thing; you are considered an in-state resident if you are active duty or MATRICULATE within 2 years of your honorable discharge from service. Limits me to only applying there this cycle since they primarily accept in-state, neighboring counties, or military veterans who meet the aforementioned criteria.

 

[LineMedic]

Just a quick update, got my grades back for my first semester, all A's. I took Eng. comp. 101, Sociology 201, History 103, and math 051, had to start a little lower in math from placement tests being a little low. It was a good refresher though, having been 15 years since I looked at a math text book.

Next semester starts in 10 days. I'm taking a heavier course load with 19 credits. I'm taking Psych. 101, college algebra, Bio 101, English comp. 102, sociology 205, and communications 101. I plan on slowing down as class difficulty increases, but since most of these courses are introductory and fill required curricula I'm just going to burn through them. After this next semester I might try and transfer to Penn., or I might stick it out and finish my associates at HACC, not sure yet. HACC is super cheap in comparison to Penn State.

I'm taking out student loans for now and saving my GI bill for Penn.

 

[LineMedic]

Semester just ended and I received 5 As and a B, brining my total GPA to 3.81. Loving the academic grind so far.

Working on a few side research projects over the winter break.

Still trying to decide where to go to finish my B.S. in bio. Anyone know how important is it where you do your undergrad? Some of my professors have been pushing me to apply at U Penn to finish my undergrad, but it's expensive as heck. Leaning towards Penn State due to cost and large student network. Does going to Penn provide any additional benefit over Penn State?


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[WGSgrad]

Penn isn't really worth the expense if your end goal is to go to medical school. Penn State should be fine. (I say this an someone who shelled out the money for the Ivy degree). My answer would be different if you wanted to go into investment banking. Then the intangibles of the Ivy become more material. At this point, keep cost as low as you can...medical school will be expensive enough. Also UPenn will be much less forgiving transfer credits than Penn State. Meaning you might have to take some classes again or only get elective credit at UPenn where you might it have to at Penn State.


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