Four or five years for a PhD?

[PsychStudent]

I'm a second-year in a well-respected clinical psych PhD program, and I'm having trouble getting a straight answer about something. Not including internship year, is it worth staying in grad school a 5th year if you can finish everything in 4? Some of my peers are saying it definitely is because you can get more clinical hours (which makes you more competitive for internships) and more publications (which makes you more competitive for research jobs). Most hope to go straight from grad school to assistant professorships with those extra publications. I personally want a job that's more of a clinical/research hybrid, and I'm not against doing a postdoc. So should I just stay 4 years then? Thanks for your advice!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[psych101]

I left a year earlier than my classmates, because I was done with coursework and ready to move back closer to home. I received some criticism from some professors for "leaving early", but was supported by my own advisor. I'm sure you would have no trouble securing a good internship with the experience you have after 4 years, and could always do a post-doc like you mentioned. On the other hand, there were students in my program who stayed an extra year (or 2, or 3, or 4 or MORE) and ended up with tons of clinical hours and publications & got some great internship sites. My question to those folks would be, "Why did you stay in grad school so long??" My thoughts were, you're already looking at a year on internship plus another year doing either or a postdoc or in a crappy job getting postdoc supervision -- I wanted to get on with my life! My only bit of advice (had I to do it over again) would be try to finish as much of your dissertation as possible before you leave for internship. It's really tough to do it long-distance, or at least it was for me.

 

[lazure]

Why stay longer and starve for another year? One of my classmates defended her PhD in three years and then did the internship. I am currently finishing my second year and considered applying for a two or three internship spots this fall but decided against it as my data collection is not complete and I would like to defend before leaving on internship.

 

[LM02]

I believe that this is really a personal decision based upon your own analysis of pros and cons. I chose to stay for a 5th year for several of the reasons you described:

1. I had an opportunity to accrue more clinical hours (and more importantly, to gain additional clinical exposure to diverse populations and settings).

2. Not only did I have an opportunity to get more papers out, but it also gave me some extra time to do additional data collection. On internship and postdoc, I wasn't starting research from scratch. Rather, I had projects to work on (and thus submit) while I also developed new ideas to pursue at my new training site.

3. I was able to defend my dissertation before leaving for internship. As psych101 said, don't underestimate the value in this. Internship is tiring, a full-time clinical job, and most likely far away from where you conducted your data collection. All of these things combined make for an unpleasant experience if you are also trying to write your dissertation.

If you want to go after year 4, you're actually completing the applications at the very beginning of that year. So really, your application and CV will only reflect 3 years' worth of graduate work. It's important to remember that, when your application is reviewed, it will be compared to those who took the extra year.

Personally, I started grad school at a young age (23), so I also felt like I had the luxury of taking the extra year. But I can also relate to the fact that others just "want to get on with their lives," as I often felt that way myself. Taking the extra year definitely prolongs the entire process of hoop-jumping that we all go through. But for me, the extra year was entirely worth it. I got interviews at all 12 internship sites that I applied to, and matched to my first choice. I don't regret my decision at all.

Good luck!

 

[PsychStudent]

LM02, since you're been through the internship process, may I ask how many publications are necessary to get into the "top" internships? My program is one of the most research-intensive in the country, so we don't get very many clinical hours unfortunately.

 

[LM02]

LM02, since you're been through the internship process, may I ask how many publications are necessary to get into the "top" internships? My program is one of the most research-intensive in the country, so we don't get very many clinical hours unfortunately.

I don't think that there's a hard and fast rule, but I had 6 pubs, 1 under review, and 3 in preparation (2 of which I ended up submitting while I was on internship). But then again, I had a colleague with a grand total of 2 publications, and another with 10+. I think the variability is due to the fact that several of the "top internships" (in my model of training, this means the more research-oriented ones) gauge research match with the faculty (almost like graduate school). In other words, athough # of publications matters, so does match of research/clinical interests and your potential to develop into an independent clinical researcher (which can be assessed in other ways such as grants, conference presentations, etc.).

Also, because I had clinical training in a variety of settings, I had lots of talk about on my interviews! (you'll often be asked, on the spot, to provide a case conceptualization)

Hope that helps!

 

[LM02]

bumping up for edieb