Four students lose their general surgery residency spots

[2021Doctor]

Bakersfield, Calif.-based Kern Medical CEO Russell Judd said April 12 the hospital will suspend its surgery residency program June 30 after the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education stripped the program of its accreditation status, according to Bakersfield.com.

There are currently 13 residents enrolled in Kern Medical's surgery residency program, according to ACGME records cited by Bakersfield.com. Mr. Judd told the publication five residents will graduate before the program ends. However, eight residents, including four who were scheduled to begin their training July 1, will need to enroll in programs elsewhere.

ACGME strips California hospital's accreditation for surgical residency program

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[AnatomyGrey12]

Bakersfield, Calif.-based Kern Medical CEO Russell Judd said April 12 the hospital will suspend its surgery residency program June 30 after the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education stripped the program of its accreditation status, according to Bakersfield.com.

There are currently 13 residents enrolled in Kern Medical's surgery residency program, according to ACGME records cited by Bakersfield.com. Mr. Judd told the publication five residents will graduate before the program ends. However, eight residents, including four who were scheduled to begin their training July 1, will need to enroll in programs elsewhere.

ACGME strips California hospital's accreditation for surgical residency program

They will be placed in other programs.

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

At least ACGME has the balls that COCA doesn't. I know COCA has nothing to do with residency programs, but it's nice to see the medical education process be held to high standards. Best of luck to those 8 residents.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

They will be placed in other programs.

Didn't that not happen a couple years ago with the Radiology program in NY. Didn't the hospital just switch the funding/spots to FM, and the residents didn't have any?
I will be very interested in updates to this.

 

[QueenJames]

This is absolutely terrible.

Kern (despite having many MD and DO program directors) is one of the greedy hospitals who accepts the dirty money from offshore Caribbean programs like St. George and Ross to funnel their students into a hospital system while the actual US students have to duke it out in crappy outpatient rotations.

WTF else do you expect from a Caribbean hospital.

I have been told by someone in the clinical rotation office indirectly that they make it MUCH harder for DO students and MD students to rotate there since they host the US-IMGs from stupid caribbean programs.

This is bull.

I pray that the stupid caribbean schools lose their contract here.

The LEAST they could do is help those poor residents get in somewhere else.

Frickin' dumb.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Didn't that not happen a couple years ago with the Radiology program in NY. Didn't the hospital just switch the funding/spots to FM, and the residents didn't have any?
I will be very interested in updates to this.

It’s happened a few times. LLU closed their neurosurgery program and the residents were dispersed to other programs. The DO they had is currently at UC-Irvine. The same thing happened to the MD residents at the Mercy GS program in Des Moines and the residents were simply dispersed to other programs.

It is simply fake news to imply these residents lost their spot in that specialty.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

It’s happened a few times. LLU closed their neurosurgery program and the residents were dispersed to other programs. The DO they had is currently at UC-Irvine. The same thing happened to the MD residents at the Mercy GS program in Des Moines and the residents were simply dispersed to other programs.

It is simply fake news to imply these residents lost their spot in that specialty.

I think you may not be familiar with the case I was referring to, but its good to hear the others landed on their feet.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I think you may not be familiar with the case I was referring to, but its good to hear the others landed on their feet.

No I’m not familiar with the case you referred to but I am pretty confident that if the program loses accreditation they are required by law to find their residents spots in other programs.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

No I’m not familiar with the case you referred to but I am pretty confident that if the program loses accreditation they are required by law to find their residents spots in other programs.

NY hospital to shutter radiology residency program
"February 13, 2013 -- A New York City hospital on Monday moved to terminate its radiology residency program, leaving 11 residents without a program or funding to continue beyond the current program year ending June 30. Funding for the program is being shifted to pay for more spots for primary care residents.

In a February 11 letter to radiology residents, St. Barnabas Hospital "

here we go: "Sorry, your residency program is closing"

It was AOA too, of course

They "declined to transfer the funding to another residency program that could potentially pick them up."

A hospital like LLU wouldn't do this. But a hospital like Kern?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

NY hospital to shutter radiology residency program
"February 13, 2013 -- A New York City hospital on Monday moved to terminate its radiology residency program, leaving 11 residents without a program or funding to continue beyond the current program year ending June 30. Funding for the program is being shifted to pay for more spots for primary care residents.

In a February 11 letter to radiology residents, St. Barnabas Hospital "

here we go: "Sorry, your residency program is closing"

It was AOA too, of course

They "declined to transfer the funding to another residency program that could potentially pick them up."

A hospital like LLU wouldn't do this. But a hospital like Kern?

The fact that it was AOA might be the reason. Again I’m pretty sure ACGME has rules for this. This Kern program is an ACGME program.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

The fact that it was AOA might be the reason. Again I’m pretty sure ACGME has rules for this. This Kern program is an ACGME program.

Read the thread further my friend, it gets much worse. ACGME only requires them to 'make an effort' to place them. You will find a post from someone whose program was terminated. Sounds like the ACGME left him out to dry.

 

[MaximusD]

No I’m not familiar with the case you referred to but I am pretty confident that if the program loses accreditation they are required by law to find their residents spots in other programs.

Not required by law. Required by ACGME rules and the NRMP. Subject to legal action/lawsuit if they do not find spots for these applicants/residents.

 

[MaximusD]

Read the thread further my friend, it gets much worse. ACGME only requires them to 'make an effort' to place them. You will find a post from someone whose program was terminated. Sounds like the ACGME left him out to dry.

NY hospital to shutter radiology residency program
"February 13, 2013 -- A New York City hospital on Monday moved to terminate its radiology residency program, leaving 11 residents without a program or funding to continue beyond the current program year ending June 30. Funding for the program is being shifted to pay for more spots for primary care residents.

In a February 11 letter to radiology residents, St. Barnabas Hospital "

here we go: "Sorry, your residency program is closing"

It was AOA too, of course

They "declined to transfer the funding to another residency program that could potentially pick them up."

A hospital like LLU wouldn't do this. But a hospital like Kern?

My first call would be to a corporate and/or contracts attorney. Medicare funding for hospitals is ~150k per year and I can tell you they have WAY more liability for this for wrongful termination or contract violation worth millions in damages. If anyone is ever in this situation and this comes up on their google search, GET AN ATTORNEY NOW.

 

[Mad Jack]

No I’m not familiar with the case you referred to but I am pretty confident that if the program loses accreditation they are required by law to find their residents spots in other programs.

They aren't required by law to do so. It is merely tradition that other programs do their best to accommodate those from closing programs. Don't conflate courtesy with legality.

 

[Mad Jack]

Not required by law. Required by ACGME rules and the NRMP. Subject to legal action/lawsuit if they do not find spots for these applicants/residents.

Citation? A closing program can do whatever they like, but other programs are ultimately the ones that have to take these people in.

 

[AMEHigh]

Citation? A closing program can do whatever they like, but other programs are ultimately the ones that have to take these people in.

Yes exactly.

I'm not going to pretend I know all of the policies, but I don't think it's as simple as just transfer that residents funding to another program.

Programs that accept new residents above their cap have to worry about will this affect the number of cases everyone gets or the number of patients everyone gets to see. I'm sure this is especially true in more competitive surgical programs at smaller hospitals.

I know my program has funding for a certain amount of residents and we are currently under that, but we are slowly expanding to our max and it's been a very strategic and slow process to add more residents.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yes exactly.

I'm not going to pretend I know all of the policies, but I don't think it's as simple as just transfer that residents funding to another program.

Programs that accept new residents above their cap have to worry about will this affect the number of cases everyone gets or the number of patients everyone gets to see. I'm sure this is especially true in more competitive surgical programs at smaller hospitals.

I know my program has funding for a certain amount of residents and we are currently under that, but we are slowly expanding to our max and it's been a very strategic and slow process to add more residents.

Yeah, just giving funding doesn't mean that a program will have actual teaching resources and caseloads to handle that funding

 

[dpmd]

The residents already in the program have known that this was coming down the pipe for a while so many had already been working on transfer (and I believe some may have already left) because they were the ones letting acgme know the teaching had significantly declined. They warned prospective interns about this so anyone who still ranked the program must have had pretty limited other options or didn't believe the residents. It is too bad that the acgme didn't make the decision before the program certified a rank list for the match to prevent anyone from matching there but I suppose the process takes time.

 

[hallowmann]

It’s happened a few times. LLU closed their neurosurgery program and the residents were dispersed to other programs. The DO they had is currently at UC-Irvine. The same thing happened to the MD residents at the Mercy GS program in Des Moines and the residents were simply dispersed to other programs.

It is simply fake news to imply these residents lost their spot in that specialty.

Officially the requirement is that they must "make an effort" to place residents in other programs. This does not mean placing them in the same specialty nor does it require them to find any spot at all.

The fact that it was AOA might be the reason. Again I’m pretty sure ACGME has rules for this. This Kern program is an ACGME program.

No. This could definitely happen at an ACGME program. The rules don't actually require it.

The issue in that case was that they didn't lose accreditation, but rather they decided to close the program and transfer all their spots to FM/IM. If they had decided to simply close or lost accreditation, the funding would have gone with the residents, so it would be easy for them to be added to other programs, but by transferring the spots, they basically screwed over their residents. Its a pretty messed up move.

My first call would be to a corporate and/or contracts attorney. Medicare funding for hospitals is ~150k per year and I can tell you they have WAY more liability for this for wrongful termination or contract violation worth millions in damages. If anyone is ever in this situation and this comes up on their google search, GET AN ATTORNEY NOW.

Contract violations have to actually involve a contract and a violation. Residency contracts are year-to-year and make no stipulation about guaranteeing progression. They make no guarantees, and the only people that would have a case would be the incoming residents because presumably they already have contracts for next year.

If the program knew this was coming, they could have just not offered contract renewals to the current residents.

Yes exactly.

I'm not going to pretend I know all of the policies, but I don't think it's as simple as just transfer that residents funding to another program.

Programs that accept new residents above their cap have to worry about will this affect the number of cases everyone gets or the number of patients everyone gets to see. I'm sure this is especially true in more competitive surgical programs at smaller hospitals.

I know my program has funding for a certain amount of residents and we are currently under that, but we are slowly expanding to our max and it's been a very strategic and slow process to add more residents.

As far as I understand it, caps in funding don't apply to people coming with their own funding, like military that have a civilian training waiver and people coming from programs that have either lost accreditation and closed without transferring their seats.

That said, caps for accreditation are something different. Programs will need to prove to the ACGME that they have the capacity to support training for additional trainees and that it won't damage the training of current residents.

 

[MaximusD]

Officially the requirement is that they must "make an effort" to place residents in other programs. This does not mean placing them in the same specialty nor does it require them to find any spot at all.



No. This could definitely happen at an ACGME program. The rules don't actually require it.

The issue in that case was that they didn't lose accreditation, but rather they decided to close the program and transfer all their spots to FM/IM. If they had decided to simply close or lost accreditation, the funding would have gone with the residents, so it would be easy for them to be added to other programs, but by transferring the spots, they basically screwed over their residents. Its a pretty messed up move.



Contract violations have to actually involve a contract and a violation. Residency contracts are year-to-year and make no stipulation about guaranteeing progression. They make no guarantees, and the only people that would have a case would be the incoming residents because presumably they already have contracts for next year.

If the program knew this was coming, they could have just not offered contract renewals to the current residents.



As far as I understand it, caps in funding don't apply to people coming with their own funding, like military that have a civilian training waiver and people coming from programs that have either lost accreditation and closed without transferring their seats.

That said, caps for accreditation are something different. Programs will need to prove to the ACGME that they have the capacity to support training for additional trainees and that it won't damage the training of current residents.

Residency programs may be year-to-year but the renewal is implied if you are in good standing. If you think a program can simply let a resident go who is performing satisfactorily without penalty, you are sadly mistaken. The civil lawsuit and ACGME penalties would be staggering unless the program had carefully logged multiple deficiencies that demonstrate a clear pattern.

It’s not that easy. Your position as a resident isn’t that tenuous if you apply a good amount of effort, study and aren’t an idiot or negligent.

 

[Anti-PD1]

LLUs neurosurgery residents all swiftly landed in excellent programs, some as add-on residents. Does anyone know the policies on this situation? This won't be the last time this happens as the merge finalizes.