Four year degree vs AS degree?

[UberDoctor]

Thread Closed.

Thank you everyone for a solid reality check.

Wish you best of luck!

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[Teneo]

Supposedly, most schools will accept you if you have at least 90 credit hours. In a practical sense, though, if you don't have a BA/BS, your chances are in the gutter.

Your experiences might be beneficial for your application because it shows that you're familiar with the medical field. But it's NOT a magic bullet. You really need to get a 4 year degree if you want to have a serious shot. Besides, you have to fulfill all the pre-reqs, which for almost all schools is two semesters Biology, two semesters Chemistry, two semesters Organic chemistry, and two semesters Physics; usually there's also a math and English requirement. Without those you won't even be looked at.

 

[Barcu]

The way I see it is that the material and actual understanding of it is more critical than any BA degree, say... in business, when looking at medical school. For example, we have a guy that finished a four year college in business applying for a medical school. Then we have me, a diagnostic cardiac technologist/sonographer applying for a medical school. The way I understand a four year degree as a general requirement is that the med school uses it to "weed" out the applicants compared to those who didn't have any college education.
I don't have a four year degree, but I am a diagnostic cardiac tech/sonographer.

Ignorant statement, no offense. College (in general and for med schools) is much more than just getting the prereqs done and getting some medical experiences. Med schools are looking for WELL-ROUNDED applicants who are more than just scientists. In fact, many schools require humanities courses, so if you don't have many (or any) than you will not get in. As an extreme example, Emory requires 18 hours (about 6 classes).

You learn much more in college than just science to be a good doctor. Communication skills are just as important as science knowledge. That's why schools require English, and they like to see students take courses in history, philosophy, language, sociology, etc.

In terms of needing a four year degree, it depends on the school. Some do require a four year degree. I have heard of some that just require four years of college (though I'm sure a lack of degree would be a detriment). You may want to contact some schools directly to see what they think, but I think the lack of a BA will hurt you.

 

[gravitywave]

you have indeed found the place to get answers.

the short answer to your question is: Yes. They will reject you.

to start with, you haven't said whether or not you've got your year of physics or your year of organic chemistry, both of which are necessary to apply to all but a handful of schools (some waive the second semester of organic if you're willing to take other bio/chem/biochem). also, the baccalaureate degree is a de facto requirement for all medical schools. some say they will accept 90 hours of undergrad without a degree, but it will leave you at a disadvantage not to have it. the guy with the business degree does indeed have a better chance than you if he's got all his course requirements done.

the issue with applied science applicants is that, although they typically have reams of clinical experience compared to most applicants, they lack the broad-based intellectual experience that a B.A. provides. medical schools are concerned first and foremost with whether or not you have the intellectual firepower to hack a medical school curriculum - and right now you haven't got that kind of track record.

 

[mvenus929]

Frankly, medical schools don't expect you to know everything when you enter. It's not about the knowledge... it's about being able to apply the knowledge and to think critically. Which is another reason why humanities courses are favored. So a BA is not about getting the knowledge to get into medical school.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

as stated, some schools do require a bachelors, others require only a certain amount of credits, and others require just the sciences and certain amount of non-sciences. in order to make the whole process simple, and maximize your chances in terms of being able to apply to a good number of schools that you like, your best bet is to go ahead and get the bachelors.

and it might not be that bad. you still need a few science pre-reqs anyway, but you could also probably transfer some credits...maybe get the bachelors in 2.5 years or so.

 

[equios]

What others have said, a 4-year degree is de-facto mandatory for any MD application.

MD school will provide you with all the training and expertise you need to be a doctor. The whole shadowing/volunteering shebang is desired because it shows that a) you know what you are getting into and won't freak out and drop out when you get to gross anatomy/first nasty clinical case, and b) that you are a compassionate person that cares about the well-being of others.

What a BA/BS degree shows is that you are also an educated and rounded person, that the whole of you isn't based around just one narrow interest.

I recall a stat that gets thrown around that 60% of music majors get into med school. In a way, a non-science degree actually helps you to get into school more so then a science or an applied-science degree. They want rounded people going in, because they know they can turn you into a doctor at the end. They can't, or rather its not in their scope, to make you a rounded person. You are expected to have that already.

 

[UberDoctor]

Appreciate all the replies.

I understand it now. By finishing a four year college I show that I am capable of being a well rounded person. The medical school could care less about all of the science education since they provide all of what is needed to become a doctor.

Makes sense.

Well, I have right about 84 credit hours of mainly science education. I do have physics, microbiology and other required courses. I also have some humanities, social science, English courses, speech communication and such. My GPA is at 3.7.

I really don't think I can go for another 2.5 years just to show that I can be a well rounded person. This is two and a half years too long for me! I am already 27 years old.
I will just get my MCAT score to 40's, apply and pray that I can get in with what I have.

You definitely shed some light on this.
Thank you for your time guys.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

just double-check the requirements for EACH and EVERY school that you want to apply to in order to be sure that you're eligible without the degree. you don't want to look into this halfway through the cycle!

scoring 40+ puts you in the top 0.5%...so go get 'em!

 

[the duck]

Appreciate all the replies.

I understand it now. By finishing a four year college I show that I am capable of being a well rounded person. The medical school could care less about all of the science education since they provide all of what is needed to become a doctor.

Makes sense.

Well, I have right about 84 credit hours of mainly science education. I do have physics, microbiology and other required courses. I also have some humanities, social science, English courses, speech communication and such. My GPA is at 3.7.

I really don't think I can go for another 2.5 years just to show that I can be a well rounded person. This is two and a half years too long for me! I am already 27 years old.
I will just get my MCAT score to 40's, apply and pray that I can get in with what I have.

You definitely shed some light on this.
Thank you for your time guys.

I'm not saying your in anyway not capable of getting into medical school, however I wonder if thats really the best path for you. as someone said, getting a 40 MCAT is EXTREMELY difficult, and even if you managed to achieve that I doubt you would be excepted with a technical degree. Have you considered becoming a nurse? They get paid well, and get to do a lot of cool hands-on procedures? There are lots of shorter programs that you can do.

 

[Astarael]

To be honest, you'll probably run into difficulty getting into medical school even if you do have a 40 on your MCAT (which is incredibly unlikely given that maybe a couple hundred people per year out of the tens of thousands that take it score so high). My understanding of people who matriculate without a bachelor's degree is that they usually are working towards one with a very high GPA (think 3.9+) and then get the really high MCAT on top of it. Your 3.7 in an applied science program is much closer to the average for matriculants (3.6ish, I believe) and not enough to fall into the category of 'likely to gain an MD acceptance without a bachelor's.'

Before making the decision to apply without having the best possible application (trust me, you don't want to be a reapplicant if you can avoid it), why not find out how far away from a bachelor's you are? Given the classes you already listed, you might be reasonably close to a degree in something like physiology.

 

[Evergrey]

You can't rush through this process. You may be 27 but lots of people start medical school in their 40s! As they say, ya gotta get your ducks in line. This is among the most competitive admissions processes of all, people who only go halfway do not get in.

 

[UberDoctor]

I'm not saying your in anyway not capable of getting into medical school, however I wonder if thats really the best path for you. as someone said, getting a 40 MCAT is EXTREMELY difficult, and even if you managed to achieve that I doubt you would be excepted with a technical degree. Have you considered becoming a nurse? They get paid well, and get to do a lot of cool hands-on procedures? There are lots of shorter programs that you can do.

I always dreamed of becoming a doctor ever since I was eight years old. If I wanted to be a nurse, I would be by now. Cardiology and pulmonology is what I love the most. I wish I knew that something so easy to achieve as BA degree would be so important in order to get into a medical school instead of Diagnostic Cardiag tecnology and ECG. I just followed my interest and passion for what I wanted to do.

Well, it is what it is... I guess I will have to get in without that four year degree!

Thanks for your suggestion!

 

[UberDoctor]

Before making the decision to apply without having the best possible application (trust me, you don't want to be a reapplicant if you can avoid it), why not find out how far away from a bachelor's you are? Given the classes you already listed, you might be reasonably close to a degree in something like physiology.

I agree with you a 100%

This is something I will look into. Very good points!

Thank you!

 

[UberDoctor]

You can't rush through this process. You may be 27 but lots of people start medical school in their 40s! As they say, ya gotta get your ducks in line. This is among the most competitive admissions processes of all, people who only go halfway do not get in.

I don't want to rush it but I definitely won't wait until I'm 40 years old!

As to getting the ducks in line... I never heard that one before and I am not going to live by it either! If you choose to... well, go right ahead... and watch my ducks fly right over yours whille your waiting

If it was meant for me to be a doctor, then I will get accepted with what I have to offer. If I won't get in at all... then I will have to accept that fact and move on.

 

[Evergrey]

I don't want to rush it but I definitely won't wait until I'm 40 years old!

As to getting the ducks in line... I never heard that one before and I am not going to live by it either! If you choose to... well, go right ahead... and watch my ducks fly right over yours whille your waiting

If it was meant for me to be a doctor, then I will get accepted with what I have to offer. If I won't get in at all... then I will have to accept that fact and move on.

But why leave things up to luck? A man creates his own luck through perspiration and preparation, that's my perspective anyway Good luck though whatever you decide!

 

[theWUbear]

I agree with you a 100%

This is something I will look into. Very good points!

Thank you!

Uberdoctor, I would recommend reaching out to your state school admissions office with this question as well, to gauge how they would treat an applicant who has completed a degree other than a bachelors. Schools vary in their willingness to advise future applicants, but at my state school, for instance, they are willing to meet with you individually and give you tailored advice. I'm sure they would tell you straight up whether a lack of a bachelors would put you at a strong disadvantage or not. Good luck

 

[Astarael]

I don't want to rush it but I definitely won't wait until I'm 40 years old!

As to getting the ducks in line... I never heard that one before and I am not going to live by it either! If you choose to... well, go right ahead... and watch my ducks fly right over yours whille your waiting

If it was meant for me to be a doctor, then I will get accepted with what I have to offer. If I won't get in at all... then I will have to accept that fact and move on.

It's not so much that you NEED to have all of your 'ducks in a line' (by the way, I prefer 'ducks in a row' but I'm from MN) but more that getting into medical school is always a game of statistics, and you need to be both aware of your chances and comfortable with them. If you apply without a bachelor's degree, you definitely have some chance of getting in. However, your chances will not be as good as those of a person who holds a bachelor's degree, and you might be at a disadvantage applying a second time. So you have to ask yourself some important questions. Do you only want to apply once? Is this a try it and see what happens kind of thing? If you think after one round of failing to get an acceptance, you'll go do something else, then by all means, apply-I wish you the best of luck . I don't even think there's a problem with doing things that way. If, on the other hand, you plan to keep applying until you get in, you'll need to consider what that might look like. Say you apply now, and get rejected. The next time you apply, you'll likely be asked if you've applied before, and an interviewer could reasonably ask you for a self-assessment of why you didn't get in. An objective assessment would have to include your lack of a bachelor's degree, and the follow up question would be, "Well, what have you done to improve that situation?" That question might be difficult for you to answer if you still hold nothing in addition to your applied science degree.

I'm not saying any of this to be confrontational, but rather to "point you in the right direction" as you say. I would recommend picking up a copy of the MSAR - the book published by the AAMC that lists all of the medical schools in the country and their basic requirements. I just flipped through my copy to see if there were any stats on matriculants with/with out a bachelors degree and there are: only 6 schools in the country matriculate a class with less than 98% of students having a bachelor's degree. Consider that at many schools, your base rate chance of gaining an acceptance is about 3-4% and now you want to shoot for their 1-2 spots open for a student without a bachelors? It's just not a good chance.

Anyway, one other thing that you might want to consider is that based upon your stated interest in cardiology and pulmonology, it wouldn't surprise me to hear ten years down the road that you went into one or the other. You should consider that to get to either is four years of med school, 3 years of internal medicine and another 2-3 years of fellowship training. My point is that you are going to be 'in school' for quite a while before you reach attending status, so while another year or two of undergrad might seem like a lot now, it probably won't by the time you're done with everything.

 

[Buddhasmash]

I don't want to rush it but I definitely won't wait until I'm 40 years old!

As to getting the ducks in line... I never heard that one before and I am not going to live by it either! If you choose to... well, go right ahead... and watch my ducks fly right over yours whille your waiting

If it was meant for me to be a doctor, then I will get accepted with what I have to offer. If I won't get in at all... then I will have to accept that fact and move on.

You seem pretty set against getting a bachelor's degree, so I won't try to persuade you in that direction. Two and a half years of extra schooling before med school would be a pain at your age. I would like to humbly suggest this, though: before applying, spend two semesters full time at a state school and work on med school pre-reqs while also getting some volunteer hours under your belt. If you can manage good scores in the pre-req classes, get a decent amount of volunteer work, and absolutely demolish the MCAT, it could make up for the lack of a BA or BS.

Oh, and look at applying to some D.O. schools and/or consider Caribbean.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

hahahahaahahaha. this thread is going into my favorites.

you don't have a 4 year degree. you have an associates degree. I have an associates degree in automotive science and it means dick. you don't have all the prereqs done. you have biology and chemistry, and apparently one semester of each. you are saying if it is meant to be it will be. you are saying you are going to score a 40 on the mcat (without all the prereqs) when people study for months to achieve a 30. you are playing russian roulette with a fully loaded double barrell shotgun. i promise you, you will fail. you are now just flushing money.

but it is your money. if you try and fail, you are going to move on. so plan on moving on. it doesn't matter what you figure about medical school admissions. most of this game is proving that you are willing to jump through all the hoops required to become a doctor, which clearly you are not.

is this harsh? sure. but you are completely disregarding people who answer you with comments that would have been found had you even glanced at a school website. but you come on here and say everyone is wrong, 2 of which are actual medical students.

good luck my friend. i wish you the best.

 

[happyparty]

I was in your position two years ago.

All you really have to do is take the necessary med school pre-reqs and load up on filler courses to satisfy the requirements for a Bachelor's of Applied Science.

It will take you about two years, but its really your best shot. Not to mention, it will give you time to study for the MCAT and give you an opportunity to find some research experience.

 

[UberDoctor]

hahahahaahahaha. this thread is going into my favorites.

you don't have a 4 year degree. you have an associates degree. I have an associates degree in automotive science and it means dick. you don't have all the prereqs done. you have biology and chemistry, and apparently one semester of each. you are saying if it is meant to be it will be. you are saying you are going to score a 40 on the mcat (without all the prereqs) when people study for months to achieve a 30. you are playing russian roulette with a fully loaded double barrell shotgun. i promise you, you will fail. you are now just flushing money.

but it is your money. if you try and fail, you are going to move on. so plan on moving on. it doesn't matter what you figure about medical school admissions. most of this game is proving that you are willing to jump through all the hoops required to become a doctor, which clearly you are not.

is this harsh? sure. but you are completely disregarding people who answer you with comments that would have been found had you even glanced at a school website. but you come on here and say everyone is wrong, 2 of which are actual medical students.

good luck my friend. i wish you the best.

I never said that I have an associate degree. If you can't tell the difference between an associates degree in automotive science and diagnostic cardiac tech and ECG, then I don't expect any decent advice coming from you at all.

Just because some people take months to study a subjcect doesn't mean that others can't study it faster. Some people have much better understanding from the start than others. Some things cannot just be learned last minute. So, your statement on that was pretty useless.

As to pre-reqs, I already stated that I have them done and have over 80 credit hours of mainly science.

Also, point out a single reply of mine that I said that EVERYONE here is wrong.

As to you promising that I will fail, thanks for the courage.

Now, if you don't have anything to say, that makes any sense, you might want to stop posting here because you are not posting any news and I don't like the way you do it either.

After all... if a guy with an associate degree in autmotive science and a crappy attitude goes for a med school.... then I sure will get it.

 

[UberDoctor]

It's not so much that you NEED to have all of your 'ducks in a line' (by the way, I prefer 'ducks in a row' but I'm from MN) but more that getting into medical school is always a game of statistics, and you need to be both aware of your chances and comfortable with them. If you apply without a bachelor's degree, you definitely have some chance of getting in. However, your chances will not be as good as those of a person who holds a bachelor's degree, and you might be at a disadvantage applying a second time. So you have to ask yourself some important questions. Do you only want to apply once? Is this a try it and see what happens kind of thing? If you think after one round of failing to get an acceptance, you'll go do something else, then by all means, apply-I wish you the best of luck . I don't even think there's a problem with doing things that way. If, on the other hand, you plan to keep applying until you get in, you'll need to consider what that might look like. Say you apply now, and get rejected. The next time you apply, you'll likely be asked if you've applied before, and an interviewer could reasonably ask you for a self-assessment of why you didn't get in. An objective assessment would have to include your lack of a bachelor's degree, and the follow up question would be, "Well, what have you done to improve that situation?" That question might be difficult for you to answer if you still hold nothing in addition to your applied science degree.

I'm not saying any of this to be confrontational, but rather to "point you in the right direction" as you say. I would recommend picking up a copy of the MSAR - the book published by the AAMC that lists all of the medical schools in the country and their basic requirements. I just flipped through my copy to see if there were any stats on matriculants with/with out a bachelors degree and there are: only 6 schools in the country matriculate a class with less than 98% of students having a bachelor's degree. Consider that at many schools, your base rate chance of gaining an acceptance is about 3-4% and now you want to shoot for their 1-2 spots open for a student without a bachelors? It's just not a good chance.

Anyway, one other thing that you might want to consider is that based upon your stated interest in cardiology and pulmonology, it wouldn't surprise me to hear ten years down the road that you went into one or the other. You should consider that to get to either is four years of med school, 3 years of internal medicine and another 2-3 years of fellowship training. My point is that you are going to be 'in school' for quite a while before you reach attending status, so while another year or two of undergrad might seem like a lot now, it probably won't by the time you're done with everything.

Yes, I am aware of being in school for pretty much to the rest of my life, especially that I would like to do both, primairly cardiology and sub specialize in pulmonology.

I like the points you are making. You are most likely right about that BA degree as well.

Thank you for a solid post.

 

[UberDoctor]

You seem pretty set against getting a bachelor's degree, so I won't try to persuade you in that direction. Two and a half years of extra schooling before med school would be a pain at your age. I would like to humbly suggest this, though: before applying, spend two semesters full time at a state school and work on med school pre-reqs while also getting some volunteer hours under your belt. If you can manage good scores in the pre-req classes, get a decent amount of volunteer work, and absolutely demolish the MCAT, it could make up for the lack of a BA or BS.

Oh, and look at applying to some D.O. schools and/or consider Caribbean.

It is not that I am against BA degree. It just turned out to be something completely different than I expected. Here I went to take on the diagnostic cardiac technology with ECG, thinking that it is definitely linked with medicine and especially cardiology at one point or another. So it is all science, all linked and I thought that it would be concidered something good that I have proven not only my interest but also the ability to absorb a material based on science in health care.

I read all the different discussions on this forum, plus the information coming from you guys and it turns out to be that a med school doesn't want a science guy! They want a well rounded person (somehow proven by any BA degree) and a person that likes to play piano or drums. A person that will be different from the crowd! A person that will be interesting to talk to on the interview! It doesn't matter that I know how to use defibrillator and it doesn't mean much that I can save lives, because I don't know how to play piano and my interview would be too boring because I like science too much and it just reminds work.
This kind of makes me laugh.

Thank you for a great post. It was quite informative and gave me some ideas on how to proceed.
I also noticed your [h+] in the avatar. I am very interested in this subject myself!

 

[BaronVonZ]

REQUIREMENTS for (virtually?) all US Med schools:
2 Semesters Chemistry, with lab.
2 Semesters Biology, with lab.
2 Semesters Physics, with lab.
2 Semesters Organic Chemistry, with lab.

Other frequently listed REQUIREMENTS:
2 Semesters English
1 Semester Biochem
1 Semester Calculus

Say what you like about "some people learn things more quickly than others", uberdoctor, but without meeting the course requirements you will not gain admission. I'm afraid you might be missing out on the key point that most people here are stressing - without a BS/BA, you're extremely unlikely to get in anywhere. Associate degrees just don't cut it in this admissions game, even with a 40 MCAT - a score which you're very ignorant to assume you can achieve. If being a doctor means so much to you then its time to get a bachelors, otherwise you can forget the whole idea in its entirety.

 

[gravitywave]

I never said that I have an associate degree. If you can't tell the difference between an associates degree in automotive science and diagnostic cardiac tech and ECG, then I don't expect any decent advice coming from you at all.

what you should have taken away from what he said (albeit harshly) was that he doesn't see much difference between his degree and yours as they relate to admissions and that medical schools won't either. it doesn't matter what you think is going to matter; the reality is what it is.

if all you have is 80 hours, you are going to have to take more undergrad credits in order to become a doctor. it's that simple.

It is not that I am against BA degree. It just turned out to be something completely different than I expected. Here I went to take on the diagnostic cardiac technology with ECG, thinking that it is definitely linked with medicine and especially cardiology at one point or another. So it is all science, all linked and I thought that it would be concidered something good that I have proven not only my interest but also the ability to absorb a material based on science in health care.

again: what you expected means nothing - and what you still have left to do means everything. you will be shocked and humbled once you realize that your experience and training barely scratches the surface of the path you are contemplating.

 

[UberDoctor]

REQUIREMENTS for (virtually?) all US Med schools:
2 Semesters Chemistry, with lab.
2 Semesters Biology, with lab.
2 Semesters Physics, with lab.
2 Semesters Organic Chemistry, with lab.

Other frequently listed REQUIREMENTS:
2 Semesters English
1 Semester Biochem
1 Semester Calculus

Say what you like about "some people learn things more quickly than others", uberdoctor, but without meeting the course requirements you will not gain admission. I'm afraid you might be missing out on the key point that most people here are stressing - without a BS/BA, you're extremely unlikely to get in anywhere. Associate degrees just don't cut it in this admissions game, even with a 40 MCAT - a score which you're very ignorant to assume you can achieve. If being a doctor means so much to you then its time to get a bachelors, otherwise you can forget the whole idea in its entirety.

Noted! Thanks for the info on the requirements.

I never said I had an associate degree. Where did you get that from?

 

[UberDoctor]

what you should have taken away from what he said (albeit harshly) was that he doesn't see much difference between his degree and yours as they relate to admissions and that medical schools won't either. it doesn't matter what you think is going to matter; the reality is what it is.

if all you have is 80 hours, you are going to have to take more undergrad credits in order to become a doctor. it's that simple.



again: what you expected means nothing - and what you still have left to do means everything. you will be shocked and humbled once you realize that your experience and training barely scratches the surface of the path you are contemplating.

You're right. I forgot that this is just a game of admissions and bureaucracy... what was I thinkng?!

Thanks for making that clear.

"What you expected means nothing - and what you still have left to do means everything." I like this. Seems as it came out of some kind of inspirational movie! It sure motivates me.

 

[BaronVonZ]

Noted! Thanks for the info on the requirements.

I never said I had an associate degree. Where did you get that from?

You said you received an "applied science degree", which is a term almost exclusively reserved for associates degrees; also, the length of study that you stated is consistent with an associates.

 

[UberDoctor]

You said you received an "applied science degree", which is a term almost exclusively reserved for associates degrees; also, the length of study that you stated is consistent with an associates.

Well, I can get an associate degree just by having a certain amount of credit hours and without completing any particular program.

AS degree has requirements and is limited to 20 people each year. The NLN exam applies as a part of admission requirements. In AS program 74% is a failing grade. After a random associate degree you don't have nothing but the title. After AS degree you get a guaranteed job and you make 60k starting. The 420 hours of internship is a part of the program.


I think it's just easy to call the two essentialy the same thing without knowing exactly what they both are. Well, they are not the same thing.

Take care!

 

[ucladoc2b]

Not to be harsh. Go browse the MSAR and look at the percentage of matriculants holding a BA/BS (or the equivalent) upon entry to medical school. The percentage is about 99-100%, which leads me to the conslusion that the chance you have to be admitted to a US MD program without substantial work towards a BA/BS is virtually zero (even with a 40 MCAT).

The experience you have sounds great and combined with a BA, a good GPA, and good MCAT will make you a strong candidate.

I wouldn't worry too much about your age. You have plenty of time, even though it may not seem that way.

Most med schools require that you have completed 90 semester hours towards a BA (at the very least) with at least one full year at a four year school.

 

[UberDoctor]

Not to be harsh. Go browse the MSAR and look at the percentage of matriculants holding a BA/BS (or the equivalent) upon entry to medical school. The percentage is about 99-100%, which leads me to the conslusion that the chance you have to be admitted to a US MD program without substantial work towards a BA/BS is virtually zero (even with a 40 MCAT).

The experience you have sounds great and combined with a BA, a good GPA, and good MCAT will make you a strong candidate.

I wouldn't worry too much about your age. You have plenty of time, even though it may not seem that way.

Most med schools require that you have completed 90 semester hours towards a BA (at the very least).

No worries about the "harsh" comments. Loosing $150K of your parents money in a bad investment is harsh... a solid reality check is not

Thank you for the good points.

 

[UberDoctor]

I wanted to thank you guys for your time and some really good info. It definitely cleared most of my current concerns about my chances for a medical school.

I have saved all of this in my word files so I can re-read them and pull all good information out of it and apply it into the next step.

I appreciate it and wish you good luck!

 

[Musclemass]

Well, I can get an associate degree just by having a certain amount of credit hours and without completing any particular program.

AS degree has requirements and is limited to 20 people each year. The NLN exam applies as a part of admission requirements. In AS program 74% is a failing grade. After a random associate degree you don't have nothing but the title. After AS degree you get a guaranteed job and you make 60k starting. The 420 hours of internship is a part of the program.


I think it's just easy to call the two essentialy the same thing without knowing exactly what they both are. Well, they are not the same thing.

Take care!

Uber, you speak as if you've just arrived by spaceship to this foreign land and everything you encounter is different and puzzling to you.

Listen to what people are telling you. You've clearly been oversold on the significance of the program you're in. We get it, it has requirements and you think it's good preparation for med school. In return, you should get it, you seem to be describing a vocational program (like becoming a barber or a medical assistant OR an auto mechanic) and it isn't a stepping stone to a med school admission.

For whatever reason, you seem to have a lot of misunderstandings. Maybe you've gotten a lot of bad advice. Throw your expectations away, find some knowledgeable people to give you guidance and then make your important decisions using the right inputs. Good luck to you

 

[nlax30]

Your applied science degree in essence is a type of associate degree. Associate Degree is the umbrella term for ~2 yr degree programs offered by community colleges, technical/trade schools..... under which you can get any number of AS degrees in a specific field, such as yours in sonography. They are really meant to be terminal degrees in which you get that specific training and then work in that field....ie, become a sonographer as opposed to being a stepping stone to a 4yr university and then med school, which is definitely possibly though.

I'm not going to be you over the head here as you already don't seem to be listening to tons of good advice in this thread. In general you are going to need a 4th degree and all the pre-reqs completed... of which you already look to have some, but certainly not all.

Plenty of others before and after you continue to go back to school at your age or older to complete pre-reqs and then apply to med school. IMHO, to just say you'll apply and see what happens is foolish and a waste a money.

Were you given the advice to get the sonography degree with intention all along to go to med school or was the decision after you were in the program? If the former then I hate to say you received some bad advice and/or didn't do research yourself.

At this point you need to seek those schools that don't explicitly require a 4yr degree and apply to those.

And like someone else mentioned getting a 40+ is exceedingly rare and not something you should bank on. Have you taken a practice exam yet?

Anyway, you came here for advice and I think received a lot of sound, honest advice and should seriously take a step back and examine you ultimate career goals and do some more research on what is required and the steps you need to take.

Good luck!

 

[UberDoctor]

Uber, you speak as if you've just arrived by spaceship to this foreign land and everything you encounter is different and puzzling to you.

Listen to what people are telling you. You've clearly been oversold on the significance of the program you're in. We get it, it has requirements and you think it's good preparation for med school. In return, you should get it, you seem to be describing a vocational program (like becoming a barber or a medical assistant OR an auto mechanic) and it isn't a stepping stone to a med school admission.

For whatever reason, you seem to have a lot of misunderstandings. Maybe you've gotten a lot of bad advice. Throw your expectations away, find some knowledgeable people to give you guidance and then make your important decisions using the right inputs. Good luck to you

I understand. Yes, you got the both points right as to lack of medical school requirement research on my part and not so good of advice that I have received.

Quite dissapointing... I am 27 years old and not having a BA degree at this age puts me way behind the schedule. Oh man...

Apparently, I must of been on a spaceship for a bit now... I wish I landed sooner.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[UberDoctor]

Your applied science degree in essence is a type of associate degree. Associate Degree is the umbrella term for ~2 yr degree programs offered by community colleges, technical/trade schools..... under which you can get any number of AS degrees in a specific field, such as yours in sonography. They are really meant to be terminal degrees in which you get that specific training and then work in that field....ie, become a sonographer as opposed to being a stepping stone to a 4yr university and then med school, which is definitely possibly though.

I'm not going to be you over the head here as you already don't seem to be listening to tons of good advice in this thread. In general you are going to need a 4th degree and all the pre-reqs completed... of which you already look to have some, but certainly not all.

Plenty of others before and after you continue to go back to school at your age or older to complete pre-reqs and then apply to med school. IMHO, to just say you'll apply and see what happens is foolish and a waste a money.

Were you given the advice to get the sonography degree with intention all along to go to med school or was the decision after you were in the program? If the former then I hate to say you received some bad advice and/or didn't do research yourself.

At this point you need to seek those schools that don't explicitly require a 4yr degree and apply to those.

And like someone else mentioned getting a 40+ is exceedingly rare and not something you should bank on. Have you taken a practice exam yet?

Anyway, you came here for advice and I think received a lot of sound, honest advice and should seriously take a step back and examine you ultimate career goals and do some more research on what is required and the steps you need to take.

Good luck!

Yes, it definitely makes sence.

I am listetning to everyone here and taking most out of it. Now I just need to sit down and do some planning ahead and see if there is even a point to go for it. Time flies by, I am 27 as I stated and not getting any younger. I wish I looked into this sooner... I probably would of been in a med school right now. Damn it.

Thank you for the explicit post. I found a lot of good advice and information in it. Also, congrats on your class of 2011... this is amazing. It must feel great

 

[ucladoc2b]

No worries about the "harsh" comments. Loosing $150K of your parents money in a bad investment is harsh... a solid reality check is not

Thank you for the good points.

I went to a state school (but a pretty good one). My total "fees" for my BA were less than $25K. My post-grad salary started at $60K. It is now significantly higher. Hardly a bad investment.

BTW, I paid for most of my own schooling.

I do have my opinions on expensive private school tuition. But that is a topic for another thread.

You want to become a doctor OP? Go get your BA. Go to a state school. With your skill set, you can likely work while in school part time, which might help you avoid undergrad debt.

 

[mvenus929]

Well, I can get an associate degree just by having a certain amount of credit hours and without completing any particular program.

AS degree has requirements and is limited to 20 people each year. The NLN exam applies as a part of admission requirements. In AS program 74% is a failing grade. After a random associate degree you don't have nothing but the title. After AS degree you get a guaranteed job and you make 60k starting. The 420 hours of internship is a part of the program.

Associate of Nursing degrees work the same way. Doesn't mean they're not associates degrees.

Someone above mentioned talking to a school admissions officer... I highly suggest you do this. While I'm sure that you'll hear much the same thing as what we've been telling you here the past few days, it might hit home a little more if you hear it from someone with authority.

 

[thefritz]

The way I see it is that the material and actual understanding of it is more critical than any BA degree, say... in business, when looking at medical school. For example, we have a guy that finished a four year college in business applying for a medical school. Then we have me, a diagnostic cardiac technologist/sonographer applying for a medical school. The way I understand a four year degree as a general requirement is that the med school uses it to "weed" out the applicants compared to those who didn't have any college education.
I don't have a four year degree, but I am a diagnostic cardiac tech/sonographer.

My thoughts are, that if you are not willing to do the leg-work and get a bs/ba because you don't think it makes any sense, then you will also not be willing to do any of the stuff you have to do to graduate med school that also doesn't make any sense, and you will drop out. If you're not willing to suck it up and get a degree, then that's a problem because this study program requires you to put up with a lot tougher stuff than that.

If you are deadset on going to med school without the degree, you will have to look at schools outside of the US. Otherwise, why don't you consider PA or nursing school???

By the way, med schools do not weed people out based on having a 4 year degree, they weed people out based on whether their GPA is above 3.5 in that 4 year degree. If you're applying without the degree, you might as well be applying with a 0.0 GPA.

 

[anna1986]

-

 

[thefritz]

I understand it now. By finishing a four year college I show that I am capable of being a well rounded person. The medical school could care less about all of the science education since they provide all of what is needed to become a doctor.

I'm sorry, but that's not right. By finishing a 4 year degree, you show the med school that you are capable of handling a full-academic course load taught by highly educated faculty and signed off by a dean and that you were able to make near perfect grades. Being well-rounded has nothing to do with it.

The reason this is important is because med schools don't want to take a chance on the people they admit. They don't want to take a chance that the person isn't going to be able to handle the (insane) amount of material and effort required for medical school and drop/fail out. In other words, you need to prove yourself at a 4-year college first and score high on the admissions test before you meet their minimum risk level for admitting people. They don't gamble on people with tech degrees or other educational backgrounds that may or may not have been of the same kind of rigor found in med school. And other times they are just elitist.

 

[UberDoctor]

I wish I did that research sooner... I still think that BA degree is a waste of time, but it is a requirement for a Med School.

As to going to the admission officer... well as you said, they will only tell me what the book says. I already know more from you guys.

Simply put, I am screwed and wasted 3 years of my life.

 

[Evergrey]

Yes, it definitely makes sence.

I am listetning to everyone here and taking most out of it. Now I just need to sit down and do some planning ahead and see if there is even a point to go for it. Time flies by, I am 27 as I stated and not getting any younger. I wish I looked into this sooner... I probably would of been in a med school right now. Damn it.

Thank you for the explicit post. I found a lot of good advice and information in it. Also, congrats on your class of 2011... this is amazing. It must feel great

UberDoctor, even though you feel older, you should also know that someone with a little experience under their belt really stands out when applying to medical school, in a very good way. You already have a lot of healthcare experience, so if you can check the other boxes (good grades esp. on prereqs, BA degree, volunteering and research experience, MCAT scores >30 etc.) then you will have an excellent chance of attending medical school.

This is for sure a long and arduous process, even to get to the point where you CAN apply. And for the people who get through all of that, 3 out of 5 do not get in anywhere. It seems like the numbers aren't too bad until you consider that these are all people with college degrees, good resumes, and lifelong aspirations to enter the field of medicine. Admissions can be devastating.

I am going through the application process myself right now and I will say, it seems like the application process is a test of how much BS you can stand. But there's a reason for it -- even after being accepted to a medical school, you still have a LOT of hoops left to jump through. Every exam carries the looming threat of failure, then you have board exams, intensive clinical rotations, and then you have to go through the application process all over again for residency.

I don't know if this is encouraging or intimidating, or if my words are unhelpful, but in case you didn't have an idea of the scope I thought I would lay it out. I do think though that you have a good chance of carrying through with everything... it just takes patience. A lot of it. If you decide to go through with all of this, try to live in the moment and not in the future. That helps me a lot, anyway.

 

[Evergrey]

Simply put, I am screwed and wasted 3 years of my life.

I implore you to think differently about that. You spent three years searching for purpose and a future career, maturing, and living life. You don't lose those years for anything. Could you say you would be in the position to consider applying to medical school now without living those years? Everyone has their own path they need to take through to get to where they want to go. Too many people rush into higher education and then burn out/change their minds. At least you don't have to worry about being that guy.

 

[nlax30]

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. Just chalk this up to "life experience" and move. In any event, I think you current degree is certainly decent experience and may even be a conversation starter (a good thing) down the road when interviewing.

Everything we've been through helps shape who we are, so don't dismiss what you've already done but use it to your advantage when the time comes. Heck, you still have possibility of a decent job and even chance to make some good money while going back to school.

People have been in much worse situations and one thing you have going for ya is that you've already seemingly done well academically in your program and don't have to stress about bringing up a crappy gpa.

 

[BaronVonZ]

Ordering my gun now. Hahaha!

Nothing physicians and admissions committees find more charming than self-suicide jokes

 

[TheRach1025]

Nothing physicians and admissions committees find more charming than self-suicide jokes

Self-suicide? Is there another kind?

Also, In before

 

[BaronVonZ]

Self-suicide? Is there another kind?

Also, In before

Jokes about others committing suicide... sorry; English was unclear.

 

[gravitywave]

Simply put, I am screwed and wasted 3 years of my life.

no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater; this is a total over-reaction. don't be so hard on yourself. many of your credits should transfer to a four year program. it probably wouldn't take any longer than two years. i had a four year degree and then had to complete 40 more credits at a post-bac. people do it all the time.

honestly, you need to get in touch with an advisor: preferably one at a medical school, but the health professions advising at your local uni ought to be able to point you in the right direction.