Advice? What classes should I take? What classes are required? What skills are needed? Please help, I really want to be a doctor.
Freshman in highschool needs advice on pretty much everything.
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There are no required high school classes in the order to be a doctor. You have to go to a university or college to take pre reqs classes, and also you have to take MCAT in the order to meet medical school requirements.
Just have fun, and don't go hard on yourself.
Just have fun, and don't go hard on yourself.
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To get decent GPA, and SAT to enter a good university/college.
If you want challenge classes, take AP classes such as US history, Physics, Chemistry, etc....
Like I said, don't go hard on yourself because you're a freshman.
Dude, you have 4 years of high school before anything that matters starts happening.
Say what you want, I did what was needed in high school and that was it. Unless you want to get into a competitive college, just do the work you need to secure a spot in a state Univ that any schmoe can get into. Honestly, I think I go to a good college. I learn a lot, have challenging classes, etc etc. There are some real *****s that go here. Low, low 20s on the ACTs, GPAs of 2.5 in high school. Simply put, unless you want to go to colleges like Stanford, you just have to be a reasonable student and you'll do just fine.
Right now, the only thing you should be doing is enjoying high school and maybe, just maybe, doing some volunteering if you want to get an early start on building up your resume.
Say what you want, I did what was needed in high school and that was it. Unless you want to get into a competitive college, just do the work you need to secure a spot in a state Univ that any schmoe can get into. Honestly, I think I go to a good college. I learn a lot, have challenging classes, etc etc. There are some real *****s that go here. Low, low 20s on the ACTs, GPAs of 2.5 in high school. Simply put, unless you want to go to colleges like Stanford, you just have to be a reasonable student and you'll do just fine.
Right now, the only thing you should be doing is enjoying high school and maybe, just maybe, doing some volunteering if you want to get an early start on building up your resume.
Just have fun, keep at least a decent GPA, actually try to learn in the classes that you are truly interested in, and get some volunteer experience. Other than that, none of the med school chase really starts until college.
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As everyone else said above, have fun and try new things. Find a hobby that interests you, because once you get into college and med school, it's good to have something to help you escape when you need a break.
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Nothing in High school matters huh? Have you been accepted into med school?
OP, ignore him. YOU CAN DO THINGS THAT WILL INFLUENCE WHETHER OR NOT YOU BECOME A DOCTOR.
I've been accepted into a few BS/MD programs, as well as BS/DO. For these programs, you are guaranteed a spot in med school as long as you can maintain a certain gpa, with no MCAT's for many. IF YOU GET INTO ONE OF THESE PROGRAMS, YOUR SET. Granted, their not easy to get into. You have to take/do:
Take tons of AP CLASSES
Do Great on your SATS (>2100)
Do Great on your ACTS (>32)
Have solid medical EC's (volunteer, Shadow, research)*** Get on this ASAP
Community Service
Work hard and Play hard (i.e do sports)
Don't listen to Maygyver, he clearly doesn't know what hes talking about
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Just because doing poorly in high school won't hurt you, doesn't mean doing well won't help you. In other words, if you're willing to put in the work, you could end up at a great college with a decent scholarship, or even in a BS/MD or BA/MD program. 
Consider taking classes that will allow you to explore the sciences, such as biology, chemistry, and physics, which you can then take at higher levels later on in your high school education. If your school offers them, consider taking classes that will give CPR, CNA, or EMT certifications, which might come in handy later! Stay focused and maintain a good GPA, but remember that academics aren't everything--learn to relax and have fun.
Find out if nearby hospitals have volunteering opportunities for teenagers, as many seem to in the summer. If your school has any research classes or opportunities, try them out and see if you enjoy anything. Participate in clubs. Participate in contests. Winning a nation-wide award is bound to look nice on applications.
Finally, score well on the SAT, ACT, and AP exams. Can't hurt.
But don't forget you're human and need to spend time with friends, family, and engaging in hobbies that interest you. After all, it only gets harder from here.
Consider taking classes that will allow you to explore the sciences, such as biology, chemistry, and physics, which you can then take at higher levels later on in your high school education. If your school offers them, consider taking classes that will give CPR, CNA, or EMT certifications, which might come in handy later!
Stay focused and maintain a good GPA, but remember that academics aren't everything--learn to relax and have fun.Find out if nearby hospitals have volunteering opportunities for teenagers, as many seem to in the summer. If your school has any research classes or opportunities, try them out and see if you enjoy anything. Participate in clubs. Participate in contests. Winning a nation-wide award is bound to look nice on applications.
Finally, score well on the SAT, ACT, and AP exams. Can't hurt.
But don't forget you're human and need to spend time with friends, family, and engaging in hobbies that interest you. After all, it only gets harder from here.
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Macgyver was stating the truth...HS really doesn't matter. Unless you want to go for the programs that Azl talked about, you're fine. I, personally wouldn't want to go for the 6 year bs/md programs...I didn't start figuring out who I really was until I was a couple of years out of high school.
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You know, I'm getting a little tired of this mantra. Yes, high school matters. And yes, you CAN do things that will help you in college, medical school and beyond. Perhaps you didn't do anything in high school that mattered, but to suggest that no-one else will be able to either is extremely presumptuous.
Like others, I suggest taking classes that interest you. If you're interested in a career in medicine, I recommend taking as many science courses as possible. When I was in high school, I remember taking gross anatomy and introduction to psychology during my junior year.
As for skills... I think learning how to communicate effectively with others is absolutely vital as a future physician. There are many classes in high school that will give you plenty of practice with this. Outside of school, look into volunteering at your church (or nearby nursing home or soup kitchen). When I was in college, I volunteered at a free health clinic for uninsured people (mostly homeless) and helped the nurses triage patients. I even joined a few medical students as they got H&P's (history and physicals) from the patients.
Bottom line: get out there and get active. Plenty of health-related teaching opportunities are out there, you just have to be persistent.
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Have you set foot in college class before? Just sayin...
Anyways, I propose SDN create a middle school forum! I'm sure it'll need to happen eventually.
D
deleted6669
all a's and b's wouldn't hurt either so you can get into a decent college as a step to medschool later...a 2.1 in high school doesn't set you up for a future of success in medicine.....it can be done but it makes it a harder road...aim for > 3.2 so you can go to a reasonable college.....
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What he said. Just enjoy high school and enjoy the chance to take classes in a wide variety of subject ranges. I remember that when I started high school, quite a few of my friends wanted to become doctors, but as they progressed through high school, the majority changed their minds as they studied new subjects. Leave yourself open because medicine is the not the end-all-be-all of life, and don't be afraid to explore all ranges of subject matter. Simply put: Get good grades, take science classes, but also experiment a little with extracurriculars that you study because I guarantee that you're too young to cut yourself off completely.
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Aside from the 10 AP classes I've taken? Yes, I took 2 college classes over the summer at my local community college, then i took 3 classes over my 4 years at high school at a local college.
Just sayin...choose your fights more carefully...
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Here's the best advice i can provide.
1) Keep your grades up, study hard, pass all your exams / tests per subject.
2) DO extra curricular activies. Join a team, a club....most importantly, after you do something you enjoy, stay in it all throughout highschool.
3) Make sure you start preparing from sophomore year for your PSATs and SATs if you want to get into a good college/univ.
4) If you want to aim for medical school, then you should probably look into volunteering at a hospital, or trying to get some sort of research, and go on programs that universities and college offer for high school students.
The earlier you can ID your strengths academically and find what your passionate about, the better.
1) Keep your grades up, study hard, pass all your exams / tests per subject.
2) DO extra curricular activies. Join a team, a club....most importantly, after you do something you enjoy, stay in it all throughout highschool.
3) Make sure you start preparing from sophomore year for your PSATs and SATs if you want to get into a good college/univ.
4) If you want to aim for medical school, then you should probably look into volunteering at a hospital, or trying to get some sort of research, and go on programs that universities and college offer for high school students.
The earlier you can ID your strengths academically and find what your passionate about, the better.
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I am very glad that you have discovered this website. I wish I could go back to my freshman year of high school.
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I wasn't "fighting" you... or at least I didn't mean to
Willie, you don't need to start volunteering or doing anything specifically related to the medical field at this point.
It's true, nothing you do now and for the next three years you're in high school will affect medical school admissions. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't care about school now.
Do what you can to get good grades, but don't overwhelm yourself. Find the optimal input-output relationship between the schoolwork you do and the grades you get. Do your homework. Your grades now will never matter past high school, but acceptances to college and scholarships are always nice. Plus, you don't want a bad work ethic to become a habit if you plan on obtaining an MD degree.
As for classes, you might want to take the advanced/AP track in science courses. For two reasons: if you're interested in becoming a doctor, you probably enjoy the subject matter, and secondly, it will better prepare you for science classes in college. For instance, physics will be much easier in college having been exposed to it in high school.
Browse the forums here. There's a lot of good information.
It's true, nothing you do now and for the next three years you're in high school will affect medical school admissions. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't care about school now.
Do what you can to get good grades, but don't overwhelm yourself. Find the optimal input-output relationship between the schoolwork you do and the grades you get. Do your homework. Your grades now will never matter past high school, but acceptances to college and scholarships are always nice. Plus, you don't want a bad work ethic to become a habit if you plan on obtaining an MD degree.
As for classes, you might want to take the advanced/AP track in science courses. For two reasons: if you're interested in becoming a doctor, you probably enjoy the subject matter, and secondly, it will better prepare you for science classes in college. For instance, physics will be much easier in college having been exposed to it in high school.
Browse the forums here. There's a lot of good information.
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First off, you need to relax; calm down and take a couple deep breaths.
Second, I assumed as a Freshman in highschool, it is a bit early for me to give him advice on BS/MD programs, as I know a lot of upperclassmen on the boards are still deciding for themselves about what route to do.
Third, in general, I guess I answered his/her question in regards to what he/she could to do get into medical school following the traditional path. Basically, there is nothing he/she can do if he/she wants to go this pathway that is different than any other student who is trying to get into College. Perhaps I should have been more exact in my answer; I will give you that. Most of the suggestions you listed were essentially how to get into College, nothing medical school related. However, the shadowing is a good point, but I know a lot of members have trouble getting those opportunities especially at as young an age as a freshman.
Fourth, no offense, but just because you were accepted into the BS/MD programs, does not enlist you as the "all-knowing-premed." Also, neither does a list of AP courses and a handful of college level courses taken at your CC. Since the BS ---> MD route is more traditional (I think, could be wrong) then I assumed I would give him/her advice on that route. In this aspect, frankly, yes, I do know what I am talking about. The majority of attributes of a pre-med student come from things one learns while at College. For example, research, clubs, meetings, volunteering, a full load of college courses, planning a major, living on your own etc, etc. Being in AP courses and a few college courses does not mean you have first hand experience in this field (Not to be rude, just straight-talk).
Fifth, sorry for the wall of text, but I am awake for some reason still and felt the need to give advice/refute my post. Remember, the reason this site is so helpful is due to the multitude of different opinions of people. With differing opinions, people are able to learn both sides of the routes and also get first hand advice.
Sixth, to the OP, it is a great idea to talk to your hospital. I know a few people had trouble because of age and whatnot. If you are too young to do that, you can also try retirement homes or anything which you can also maybe build patient interaction. As far as courses, AP's are good, some aren't exactly college level courses, but in general if you can succeeed in these, you are set. (They teach good study skills too). In general, the rules for you to get into medical school at this point can be summarized pretty much as the same as getting into a good college.
OMGIMTIRED.
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- As a freshmen, OP has sought out this site as well as told us he wants to become a doctor. Since most of the upperclassmen on this site found it when they were probably in college, it makes OP different already. With the competitiveness of BS/MD programs, there is no early time to start - having 4 years of volunteer experience in an hospital is a big plus over someone with 2 years of volunteering. Also, volunteering at the hospital builds contacts which lead to shadowing and research opportunities.
- These med programs heavily focus on your med activities, to make sure you are dedicated to medicine. Thats what I pointed out for the op.
- First off, if you read what I said, I took 1 class at CC and 3 others at other colleges. Those colleges are: Harvard, Columbia, and NYU. Not the easiest colleges, huh? The classes I took included Bio 101, Human Phis, and Intro to O-Chem. At the CC, I took a high level math class, so please, I have taken some upper level and difficult classes. AP wise, I took A TON. As for med school admission readyness, let me ask you a question: Have you shadowed as well as volunteered? I have shadowed for 120hrs as well as volunteered for 600. What about research? I have 2 3rd author publications, as well as one that I am working as a part of right now. Clearly, I have many aspects of a "good" med school applicant.
- There are some parts of the college process I do not know, but if OP can get into a G-med program, he is set.
- Also, you Say nothing can impact med school decisions. Well, if you volunteer continuesly from 10th grade to junior year at a place, you can write that on your med school application. Same goes for research and shadowing. The extended time will give you a heads up and advantage in getting in to med school.
My sources:
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000169.htm
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/choosing-a-combined-bachelorsmd-program.htm
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BS-MD/BS-DO isn't really the norm.
And I thought you couldn't write about volunteering/shadowing/researching before college? I remember reading it somewhere on the AMCAS website.
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If you continue the activities into college, then you can write it.
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Call me crazy, but I'd rather have fun in high school than be miserable doing something that really won't make a difference unless you're aiming for a combined BS/MD or BS/DO program.
If I was in Willie's position I'd try to take a few AP classes, play some sports, and just have fun. Graduate with a decent GPA and aim for an 1800-2000 SAT...something good enough to get into the state university. Unless you absolutely must get into a fast track MD/DO program, there's no reason to kill yourself in high school -- you'll have plenty time for that in college and medical school.
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If you do those things not aiming for BS/MD, then you still become more competitive for college, leading to more scholarships. And, pardon me, but I will call you crazy. Why would you, if you had the chance, give up the opportunity to not take the mcats and get into a med program? some are 8 years, so you would get the full college expereince, w/o having to worry about what would look good on an application. I would rather enjoy college than high school. I did amazing in highschool, and I was popular, had fun, played varsity sports, got a 2200 SAT/34 ACT and got into a program like this. Manage your time OP, and everything will fall into place.
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I'm siding with Az1698 on this one, because everyone else seems to be turning this into an either-or scenario, and it isn't. It's possible to enjoy high school, do well academically, and end up going to college with a nice scholarship (helllllo, cheap education in a bad economy!) or getting accepted into a BS/MD or BA/MD program. In my opinion, if the OP discovers this path really is for him, getting accepted into one of these programs will make the rest of his life much easier.
So while becoming an antisocial studyholic is not being advocated here, neither is ignoring such an amazing opportunity to make life that much easier.
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I'm mostly done with med school, and don't listen to Az1698, because he's going to scare you.
Not much in high school matters. Still, I think you should try to get good grades. Don't go crazy with tons of AP/IB classes, and getting a B is not a big deal, at all. Don't bother with any extracurricular activities that you don't like - if you find stuff that you like, like volunteering, sports, or other activities that you like, then go ahead and do it for the fun of it.
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Alright, so first off, wrong use of "they're"
Now,
High school really doesn't matter, as the majority of people have said. Taking this advice and loading up on AP classes is pretty much a long road to ruin and having absolutely no social life. Yes, it's great academically, if you can handle it. However, you will have no time for sports, no time for friends, and basically no time for anything that high school is supposed to offer.
Shoot to take all honors classes, with maybe an AP or two when you feel you are ready to take them. In the meantime, play a sport, join a club, and have a good time. Those accelerated programs are alright but you are by no means "all set" if you get into one. You STILL have to do very well on the MCAT, and you STILL have to have a really good GPA, just like everyone else not in an accelerated program, to get into medical school.
In my eyes, I don't see how torturing yourself for four years with a million AP classes is worth saving ONE year in the future (which is all the accelerated plans offer), which would probably be a lot of fun anyways (undergrad is the biggest place to grow and develop as a person).
So in the end, my advice is this: have a ton of fun in high school, and enjoy every second of it. Take classes that you enjoy, not ones you think that colleges will like to see (doing poorly in that AP History class is worse than doing excellent in the honors one). Do well in the classes you take to have a good GPA, mainly just so you can get some money when applying to colleges. When the time comes for the SAT and the ACTs, don't stress. Read a prep book, take a prep class, and just take everything as it comes.
Taking Az1698's advice and expecting to do well is pretty quixotic. Life is too short to take on the kind of stress and frustration that that kind of course load would be like.
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I don't know about you, but the traditional route sounds more fun to me. There's no obligation to go to medical school if you change your mind, but you're kind of stuck doing it if you're in a combined BS/MD BS/DO program. If you're absolutely 100% sure that's what you want, then good for you...but it's a lot of extra work. I'd rather do college then medical school because it's a little less stressful and I have time to take non pre-req classes, work a part time job, party, have fun, etc.
Different view points I guess? Either way, good luck and have fun.
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Most important advice - Have fun. You may think you want to be a doctor, but you might change your mind. I studied nothing but computers all throughout high school thinking I wanted to do something computer related. I changed my mind senior year of high school. You're young, very young as a matter of fact. Go to school, make a TON of friends and have fun. That's it. Get good grades, but don't stress out. Don't go crazy with a ton of AP/honors classes. Get involved with a sport or something you love. Exercise regularly.
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I don't know about you, but the traditional route sounds more fun to me. There's no obligation to go to medical school if you change your mind, but you're kind of stuck doing it if you're in a combined BS/MD BS/DO program. If you're absolutely 100% sure that's what you want, then good for you...but it's a lot of extra work. I'd rather do college then medical school because it's a little less stressful and I have time to take non pre-req classes, work a part time job, party, have fun, etc.
Different view points I guess? Either way, good luck and have fun.
Theres some misconceptions in your post - I agree to disagree
- Your not obligated to become a doctor - you can drop out and take your credits and do whatever you please
- they won't take you unless their sure that you will become a doctor
- these programs are less stressful - no mcat, only take the minimum pre reqs and you can take anything else. For the most part, these programs are the make more well rounded doctors (not including the penn state and UMKC 6 year program).
- Most places I interviewed the kids were laid back and said they didn't do much except having fun.
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I took this sort of course load in high school, and let me tell you, it absolutely sucked. However, due to the large amount of AP credit I was able to accumulate, my academic experience in college has been less stressful. I've basically been able to take a low amount of credits each semester, and have only taken classes that were interesting to me (i.e. no bs gen-ed classes). I could have also easily graduated in three years, if I had wanted to. Now, I guess the important question is, "was it worth it?" And to tell you the truth, I really can't say. My life is definitely easier now, but as I said before, I absolutely couldn't wait to get out of high school. So I really don't think there is one "right" path to take. You will end up in the same place, eventually.
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Theres some misconceptions in your post - I agree to disagree
- Your not obligated to become a doctor - you can drop out and take your credits and do whatever you please
- they won't take you unless their sure that you will become a doctor
- these programs are less stressful - no mcat, only take the minimum pre reqs and you can take anything else. For the most part, these programs are the make more well rounded doctors (not including the penn state and UMKC 6 year program).
- Most places I interviewed the kids were laid back and said they didn't do much except having fun.
I don't know what programs you're thinking of, but every program that I've ever seen still requires MCAT and an amazing GPA just like everyone else. How do they assume someone who does well in high school is going to continue that into college and make a successful doctor?? That's like saying someone kicked some major ass in middle school, so we're going to let them not take the SAT or ACT and have them get accepted into top tier schools taking whatever classes they'd like.
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So they didn't study or learn at all?
Anyways, I'm glad I didn't go the BS/MD route. A lot of the things I did in college to boost my med school application turned out to be awesome experiences, most of which I would not have been able to do under the age of 18. My EMT experiences were a blast - I ran 911 calls in terrible neighborhoods with all sorts of entertaining drama.
I knew lots of people who had all kinds of AP classes going into college, and I can't think of one of them that actually got through college any faster than all the people without these classes. That's not to say that you CAN'T, but none of the people I knew did.
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Gallix, just because you haven't heard of many programs, doesn't mean its like that.
They decide who will make a successful doctor by seeing how much they volunteered, the interviews with the applicant, as well as there other medical ec's. They also have to be very smart. Heres a list of programs that you don't know of, it seems.
- Albany Medical College (AMC) and Union College (UC) (8 year program) Guaranteed admission into medical school. MCAT not required. Applicants are required to complete and submit the scores for SAT I and two SAT II Subject Tests. The SAT IIs should include one science and one mathematics test. The ACT can replace the requirements for both the SAT I and SAT II. Testing requirements for the Leadership in Medicine Program are a combined 1950 or better on the SAT and a 650 or better on each of the SAT IIs. If a student chooses to submit the ACT, he or she must have a composite of 30 or better. Contact: 518-388-6000 (December 2008)
- Baylor College of Medicine (BCM) and Rice University (RU) (8 year program) Guaranteed admission into medical school. The average SAT score for entering applicants 2100 and applicants establish a strong interest in pursuing medicine. MCAT not required. (December 2008)
- Brown Medical School (BMS) (8 year program) Guaranteed admission into the medical school. Applicants have an average 710 verbal SAT score, 730 mathematics SAT score, and graduated in top 2 percent of high school class. Three SAT II subject tests required (one should be in science). Applicants interested in Brown Medical School, may also apply to the following undergraduate campuses: University of Rhode Island (RI), Providence College (PC)
- Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) and Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine (CWRUSM) (8 year program) Provisional admission to medical school. As a high school student you must apply for the pre-professional scholars program. Students had an average SAT score of 1410-1510. If students take the SAT I only they are required to take three SAT II tests (writing and 2 other subjects) If a candidate is interested in engineering it helps to take the SAT II tests in math or science. The ACT test can be taken in lieu of the SAT I and SAT II because ACT scores are divided into individual categories (average ACT score between 30-34). Students must maintain a minimum 3.6 undergraduate G.P.A. while in the program. MCAT not required but if it is taken a minimum score of 32 is needed. All applicants considered for the Trustees scholarship, President's scholarship and Provosts scholarship.
- George Washington School of Medicine (GWSM) and George Washington University (GWU) (7-8 year program) Provisional admission into medical school. Each year a student's progress is monitored. Applicants require minimum SAT 1400, MCAT not required, and must maintain a minimum 3.3 GPA as an undergraduate. Students required to take SAT II in writing, science and mathematics. Students must have 100 hours of community service per year. 20 students matriculate into the program every year. Freshman scholarship options (FSO) available.
- Howard University College of Medicine (HU) and Howard University (HU) (6 year program) Contact phone number: 202-806-7231 (December 2008)
- Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine (NOU) (6 year program) Guaranteed admission into the medical school. Preference given to Ohio residents. To be admitted to the BS/MD Program, a student must first be selected for an interview. The selection of students to be invited for an interview is based on academic credentials, extracurricular activities and other information provided in the student application. Students need at least a 3.5 unweighted grade point average. While there is no absolute minimum for ACT/SAT scores, for the last several years only students with at least a 26-27 ACT or 1170-1210 SAT* total/composite score were offered an interview. Accept ACT or SAT scores and will use the highest total/composite score despite the number of times the exams are taken.
- Northwestern University- Feinberg School of Medicine (NUFS) (7 year program) Applicants require SAT I and SAT II subject tests in writing, mathematics level IIc, and chemistry. You must take a year of calculus, including differential/integral calculus and simple differential equations. Contact phone number: 312-503-8649 (December 2008)
Theres like 30 more, but I am stopping there. Not all these programs are accelerated, so you won't always be losing something.
theprowler said:
Yea, because me telling him he can improve his future is scaring him. Right
I'll ask you this, Mr. Genius: If you continue an activity through high school (shadowing a doctor for 6-7 years by med school) into college, can't that help you? If you do reserach from a young age and continue it, won't that help you? And while doing these things, if you made connections, wouldn't that help you? Clearly you are trying to scare him. I'm not telling him to take it to the extreme, just try it out and keep something going.
[URL="http://forums.studentdoctor.net/member.php?u=250341" said:
Please, if you don't know what your talking about, don't say it. FOR MANY OF THESE PROGRAM NO MCAT IS REQUIRED. NOT ALL ARE ACCELERATED. YOU DO HAVE TO MAINTAIN A GPA, BUT YOU HAVE MORE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE YOUR CLASSES.
You can have a life if you take hard classes. I did, probably as much as a everyday person. I wasn't a validictorian, but I did good.
Listen to gartorsball, hes understanding that there does not have to be extremes.
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Do you have some kind of problem? Go see a psychiatrist or something, because you take everything in extremes. Wow...
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Wow, you're really adamant about this whole accelerated thing aren't you?
OP - Just go through high school and have a blast. Don't worry about this stuff now. Do as well as you can, and be as stress free as possible. In the end, it's not a huge sacrifice to do one more year of undergrad with all of your buddies and get some more bonding time and more time to grow as a person.
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God, Az...I hate to tell you this, but you don't have things figured out as much as you seem to think. Much of your advice is misleading or just outright incorrect. You need to realize that you are an extremely unique case and that the vast majority of people will not be able to participate in research before college regardless of their connections. Most also don't have access to the breadth of AP and college courses you've taken.
This combined degree kick you're advocating speaks to a lack of experience and savvy, in my opinion. I think it is exceptionally rare that a high school student can say with educated certainty that he wants to go into medicine, and the unusually high attrition rates in the combined programs supports that notion. Advising someone who is a freshman in high school and "sure" that he wants to be a doctor that BS/MD is the only way to go is not wise. Yeah, it's great that you can often avoid taking the MCAT and might not have to apply to med school, but let's look at the downsides of BS/MD programs. First off, you're going to be paying med school tuition for 7-8 years instead of 4. If you ditch the program, you're already going to have a substantial amount of debt. Many programs will only award you a Liberal Arts degree if you don't complete the BS/MD prgram, and that's essentially useless.
In a combined program, you're committing yourself early on to a profession that requires an unbelievable amount of work, and you're not going to even have the basic sciences out of the way. Many, many people stop being pre-med after taking the first few science courses despite wanting to be doctors up until that point. You will not have that option. Also, your assertion that BS/MD programs make more well rounded doctors is just crazy. Dedicating yourself to hardcore science for 4 years means you're well-rounded? Please. And the having fun thing? I don't know where you interviewed, but they're damn good at camouflaging the truth. You're going to bust your butt through the duration of your combined degree. Don't buy that everyone-is-happy garbage. It's the same nonsense that every school throws at you to make life there seem great. That sort of naivete is a fantastic reason you should go to college first before committing yourself to medicine. Get some experience in a more advanced setting before making such a dramatic and binding decision.
edit: For you, OP, please take the advice here with a grain of salt. Some of what you do in high school can matter for med school, but only if you continue it into college. At this point, though, I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice to get that heavily involved in an activity or to only do extracurriculars with med school in mind. I suggest maybe doing some light volunteering in a hospital or something to get a general idea of where you might be wroking and to have something to put on your high school resume. Do the best you can in classes you enjoy, and forget about the rest. If you decide you want to do a BS/MD program, make sure you've researched the hell out of it. I'd recommend going to college first and then deciding if medicine is for you. Doing so during high school sounds like a bad, bad plan to me.
This combined degree kick you're advocating speaks to a lack of experience and savvy, in my opinion. I think it is exceptionally rare that a high school student can say with educated certainty that he wants to go into medicine, and the unusually high attrition rates in the combined programs supports that notion. Advising someone who is a freshman in high school and "sure" that he wants to be a doctor that BS/MD is the only way to go is not wise. Yeah, it's great that you can often avoid taking the MCAT and might not have to apply to med school, but let's look at the downsides of BS/MD programs. First off, you're going to be paying med school tuition for 7-8 years instead of 4. If you ditch the program, you're already going to have a substantial amount of debt. Many programs will only award you a Liberal Arts degree if you don't complete the BS/MD prgram, and that's essentially useless.
In a combined program, you're committing yourself early on to a profession that requires an unbelievable amount of work, and you're not going to even have the basic sciences out of the way. Many, many people stop being pre-med after taking the first few science courses despite wanting to be doctors up until that point. You will not have that option. Also, your assertion that BS/MD programs make more well rounded doctors is just crazy. Dedicating yourself to hardcore science for 4 years means you're well-rounded? Please. And the having fun thing? I don't know where you interviewed, but they're damn good at camouflaging the truth. You're going to bust your butt through the duration of your combined degree. Don't buy that everyone-is-happy garbage. It's the same nonsense that every school throws at you to make life there seem great. That sort of naivete is a fantastic reason you should go to college first before committing yourself to medicine. Get some experience in a more advanced setting before making such a dramatic and binding decision.
edit: For you, OP, please take the advice here with a grain of salt. Some of what you do in high school can matter for med school, but only if you continue it into college. At this point, though, I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice to get that heavily involved in an activity or to only do extracurriculars with med school in mind. I suggest maybe doing some light volunteering in a hospital or something to get a general idea of where you might be wroking and to have something to put on your high school resume. Do the best you can in classes you enjoy, and forget about the rest. If you decide you want to do a BS/MD program, make sure you've researched the hell out of it. I'd recommend going to college first and then deciding if medicine is for you. Doing so during high school sounds like a bad, bad plan to me.
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Oh, I bet... You've made a horrible first impression in this thread for everyone who hasn't read any of your posts elsewhere. Your quick jump to defensiveness and your aggressiveness toward others has likely put off even those who agree with what you're saying because of how you say it. Congrats on your acceptance into a selective BS/MD program, just keep your defensiveness in check because not everyone will agree with you every time.
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Willie, don't let yourself end up like this.
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Shadowing for more than a total of 1-2 weeks is not necessary. If you do it regularly for years, it should only be for your own entertainment. If you really WANT to do these things, go ahead, but if a freshman in high school comes in here and asks what he should do, I'm not going to tell him to do regular shadowing, start a research project, and start making connections with physicians in high places. That would be taking things to an extreme.Yea, because me telling him he can improve his future is scaring him. Right
I'll ask you this, Mr. Genius: If you continue an activity through high school (shadowing a doctor for 6-7 years by med school) into college, can't that help you? If you do reserach from a young age and continue it, won't that help you? And while doing these things, if you made connections, wouldn't that help you? Clearly you are trying to scare him. I'm not telling him to take it to the extreme, just try it out and keep something going.
mmmcdowe
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Well you certainly have the arrogant attitude down. Congrats on your success, but my biggest problem with BS/MD and the like is the fact that a great number of students who decide to stay pre-med end up deciding that they want to apply elsewhere and give up their spot to do so. If you maintain your current level of activities, I wouldnt' be at all surprised if you decided you wanted a shot at a top school that does not have a combined degree program for you to apply to.
As far as high school activities carrying over, I did that with my volunteering so that I could use my 500+ high school hours in my count. The few adcoms that cared about that experience always asked how much of my time was high school versus college and wrote down my answer.
Oh, and shadowing is low yield experience, regardless of how much you do. I didn't even mention it in my application.
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1, 2, 3... Deep breaths.
There's a lot of Type-A head-butting in this thread.
It's ok to disagree with someone on the forums, but let's keep the discussion civil and respectful.
There's a lot of Type-A head-butting in this thread.
It's ok to disagree with someone on the forums, but let's keep the discussion civil and respectful.
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BS/MD programs are neither perfect for everyone or wrong for everyone. They are also extremely dissimilar from each other. In other words, making generalizations about them in a strong way may not reflect reality and should be done with caution.
Although it is common on SDN to believe that high school students should not go the BS/MD route, I do not agree that it is always a mistake. Some of these programs allow for a lot of flexibility in classes and majors. If a student has outstanding credentials and a strong interest in medicine, AND if the proposed college AND medical schools are a good fit, then a BS/MD program MAY be a good option. Those who are less certain about medicine, who are uncertain about where they want to go to school, or who are looking for a more typical undergrad experience may not be best for these programs.
It is not true that such programs are either more or less expensive than traditional pathways. It is highly variable and no generalization is possible. It is also not true that the MCAT can usually be avoided. A few schools and programs do not require it, but this is in flux right now. Unless one has already been admitted with a written statement of no MCAT being required, one should not assume that will still be in place in the future.
It is also not true that all of these programs have high drop out rates. The most selective have high success rates.
It isn't true either that these programs make for better (or worse) physicians. There are no data about this, but I can speak from a long history to say that I haven't seen any real difference in performance either during med school or residency in the BS/MD students.
The bottom line is that such programs are not something that MOST freshmen in high school should target. However, for some, it may be route to consider and they should talk to people IN these programs to get a sense of the pros and cons.
Although it is common on SDN to believe that high school students should not go the BS/MD route, I do not agree that it is always a mistake. Some of these programs allow for a lot of flexibility in classes and majors. If a student has outstanding credentials and a strong interest in medicine, AND if the proposed college AND medical schools are a good fit, then a BS/MD program MAY be a good option. Those who are less certain about medicine, who are uncertain about where they want to go to school, or who are looking for a more typical undergrad experience may not be best for these programs.
It is not true that such programs are either more or less expensive than traditional pathways. It is highly variable and no generalization is possible. It is also not true that the MCAT can usually be avoided. A few schools and programs do not require it, but this is in flux right now. Unless one has already been admitted with a written statement of no MCAT being required, one should not assume that will still be in place in the future.
It is also not true that all of these programs have high drop out rates. The most selective have high success rates.
It isn't true either that these programs make for better (or worse) physicians. There are no data about this, but I can speak from a long history to say that I haven't seen any real difference in performance either during med school or residency in the BS/MD students.
The bottom line is that such programs are not something that MOST freshmen in high school should target. However, for some, it may be route to consider and they should talk to people IN these programs to get a sense of the pros and cons.
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Ok, I'll admit that I did get a little carried away. I think the reason for that is that most people on here (not you tildy, you post is a good example of equality) deal in extremes, i.e you can't change anything or your can change everything. OP, if you feel I was out of line or giving wrong information, please disregard whatever I said. Just one final thing:
Milkman, I would just like to point out that the albany med and the Brown med program (only two off my head) specifiacally promote well roundedness. and most of the programs on my list, if you drop out, you get credit for all the classes you took, so it is not a waste.
I apoligize if I insluted anyone on this thread, but I was defending what I believe. Clearly the majority on here is not with me, but tis' ok.
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I'd also like to say that I respect your desire to do a combined degree. It most certainly is a personal preference, and I definitely don't believe that it prepares you any less for being a doctor. If I had my way I wouldn't disband these programs, if anything I would promote them more. My high school had no info on this sort of thing, though then again we didn't have access to research or things like that either. If I could go back and do BA/MD if I wanted, I wouldn't just because I had other priorities than a promised acceptance somewhere (though I did know I wanted to be a doc).
Group hug everyone.
