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Fugees and immigrants

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Farrah, Apr 3, 2004.

  1. Farrah

    Farrah Senior Member
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    I heard that immigrants and fugees have a harder time getting positions in med schools? Or is that only for international students? Someone told me that they had a great deal of difficulty getting into medical school b/cause they were an immigrant?
     
  2. flyingillini

    flyingillini Self Proclaimed Ninja
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    Fugees as in the musical group? Or do you mean refugees? :D
     
  3. Pinkertinkle

    Pinkertinkle 2003 Member
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    If you are a permanent resident, medical schools make no distinctions. So get that green card!
     
  4. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    I'm an immigrant as you should be able to figure out by my name though I was neutralized a while ago. Anyways I think being an immigrant helps you get into med school or at least that has been my experience. One of my interviewers said, "I have a soft spot for immigrants that had to come over and adapt to a new life style. I will advocate very strongly for you to the committee."

    Being an immigrant gives you more fuel to talk about how well you are able to overcome adversity.
     
  5. mosoriire

    mosoriire Senior Member
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    Yeah....regardless of the fact that you probably were able to come over on your parents' UN laissez-passer?

    Not all immigrants face adversity coming in, and I think adcoms know that...I actually steered far, far away from the whole immigrant/non-immigrant issue when I was interviewing...I was asked more about my international volunteer stuff, study abroads in third countries, and that kind of information.

    I think there is DEFINITELY increased difficulty for immigrants without green cars. Unless you are Canadian. Then you dont have to worry. As for all others, we have to figure out a way tp pay four years of tuition up front in many schools (Hopkins, Stanford, GTown, right off the bat that I know of) or if not, explain how we intend to pay up. ANd then of course, there is the issue of competing with tax payers for spots that their taxes support....
     
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  6. quideam

    quideam Too tired to complain
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    Hey, I'm an immigrant too - from Russia as well, actually :D

    I have had no problem getting into med school... I was naturalized a few years back. If anything, I think that it makes you sound more interesting...
     
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  7. Farrah

    Farrah Senior Member
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    Is it possible to be a permanent resident without a green card? What is the green card for anyway?
     
  8. quideam

    quideam Too tired to complain
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    Before I became a citizen, I was a permanent resident, and I had a green card. It's basically a card stating that you're a legal permanent resident in the US.
     
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  9. Pinkertinkle

    Pinkertinkle 2003 Member
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    The green card comes with permanent residency. Once you have are a permanent resident you have almost all the same rights as a citizen, cept voting in national elections. Oh yeah, you also lose your right to do jury duty, how terrible.
     
  10. Farrah

    Farrah Senior Member
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    SO people without green cards don't get financial aid?
     
  11. Pinkertinkle

    Pinkertinkle 2003 Member
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    Here you go:

    Eligible Noncitizen You must be one of the following to receive federal student aid:

    ? U.S. citizen
    ? U.S. national (includes natives of American Samoa or Swain?s Island)
    ? U.S. permanent resident who has an I-151, I-551, or I-551C (Alien Registration Receipt Card)

    If you?re not in one of these categories, you must have an Arrival-Departure Record (I-94) from the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) showing one of the following designations in order to be eligible:

    ? ?Refugee?
    ? ?Asylum Granted?
    ? ?Indefinite Parole? and/or ?Humanitarian Parole?
    ? ?Cuban-Haitian Entrant, Status Pending?
    ? ?Conditional Entrant? (valid only if issued before April 1, 1980)

    If you have only a Notice of Approval to Apply for Permanent Residence (I-171 or I-464), you aren?t eligible for federal student aid.

    If you?re in the United States on an F1 or F2 student visa only, or on a J1 or J2 exchange visitor visa only, you?re not eligible for federal student aid. Also, persons with G series visas (pertaining to international organizations) are not eligible.

    NOTE: Citizens and eligible noncitizens may receive loans from the FFEL program at participating foreign schools.

    Citizens of the Federated States of Micronesia, the Republic of the Marshall Islands, and the Republic of Palau are eligible only for Federal Pell Grants, FSEOGs, or Federal Work-Study. These applicants should check with their schools? financial aid offices for more information.
     
  12. chintu

    chintu Senior Member
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    Yes I agree immigrants have a much harder time to get into US med school. I don't think med schools hold that against you or anything; its just the fact that you have to go through many hardships to adjust into a new country, culture and way of education; not to mention if your parents don't speak english and you have to help them find work, etc. I came to the US about 6 yrs ago and had to go through the worst. I changed 4 high schools in 4 yrs; had to take the freakin SAT multiple times (i did poorly in verbal) to get a good enough score to get into a good college. That's not the end of the story; i did extremely well in my classes and did great on the MCAT science sections, but as one may expect bombed the verbal. Then I spend hours and hours practicing reading to improve efficiency, took the mcat again and got my verbal score up to a 10. Now I am currently applying and have been accepted to a couple of schools so far and waitlisted at a couple of good ones...I am quite happy with how things have turned out, but it has been a long struggle. And to think this is only the beginning as I am on my way to med school.
     
  13. Farrah

    Farrah Senior Member
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    Congratulations on your acceptances. Sounds like a lot to struggle with. I also have always been helping my parents out with work etc. so I know what you mean. I really think it is great that you were able to improve your verbal score. I really think it is great when those people who speak english as a second language are able to succeed on the mcat. Imagine having to take the mcat in german, or french or spanish...
     
  14. exmike

    exmike NOR * CAL
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    I dont think anyone from the Fugees will be applying to medical school soon, although they would qualify as URMs during the process if they did.
     
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  15. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    I don't know what a UN laissez-passer is but that is not how I got into this country. My aunt moved to the US three years before us and invited us through the UN. 3 years later we were invited to the american embassy in Moscow to undergo three days of interviews and medical exams in order to obtain a permanent visa to come to the US.

    In any case that is not what I meant by adversity. What I meant is that every immigrant comes from a completely different culture with different rules and codes for appropriate behavior. Not to mention the constant jeering that they indure at the hands of ignorant Americans. (Not all are like that but there are plenty regardless of where you go) I have been here 12 years and I still get harrassed about it sometimes.

    I don't know where you migrated from but I find it hard to believe that you faced little adversity during the transition unless of course you came from Canada or the UK.
     
  16. Farrah

    Farrah Senior Member
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    Did people bother you because you were an immigrant or because of your country of origin?
     
  17. Alexander99

    Alexander99 Ghetto Fabulous
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    You were neutralized? That sounds. . .painful.
     
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  18. exmike

    exmike NOR * CAL
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    its so they cant breed in the US
     
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  19. TripleDegree

    TripleDegree Joker Doctor
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    :) I believe the OP meant "naturalized"
     
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  20. TripleDegree

    TripleDegree Joker Doctor
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    Also - the word that had the painful connotation would have been "neutered" not "neutralized".

    I love MCAT Verbal :confused:
     
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  21. underAchiever

    underAchiever leoni ridenti
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    As if it's not bad enought to be an immigrant (second-rate mind) try owning up to the fact that for a few obscure years of your young life you were an illegal alien!
     
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  22. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    Part of it was because I'm from Russia so that naturally means I must be KGB or in the Russian Mob and that I drink vodka right now. All stereotypes and all too true (jk).

    Part of it also was my accent and the fact that I acted differently and that is something most immigrants will encounter.
     
  23. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    Thank you for the correction. My excuse for everything: "English second language" :D
     
  24. Farrah

    Farrah Senior Member
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    one of my friends is mexican and she isn't a citizen yet. she's been here since she was a year old but her parents originally came here as illegals.
     
  25. quideam

    quideam Too tired to complain
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    My sentiments exactly.
     
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  26. Farrah

    Farrah Senior Member
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    My father went to college in russia and in general he was treated kind of like how u said immigrants are treated here. but people were mostly just curious about him and his origins.

    but i guess this type of treatment is universal.
    one time i had gone to a dentists office and sat down with my mother and before i could even speak the secretary began to spell out her words. you know that stupid way of talking like as if you speak to a kid. :rolleyes: when she had finished her ridiculous pantomime I replied. "Ma'am, I appreciate the creative effort that you took into conveying the policies and procedures of this office and dental cleaning. I am sure that both my mother and I will take this into consideration when we make our final decision." :laugh:
     
  27. Alexander99

    Alexander99 Ghetto Fabulous
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    Wow. Our anti-immigration laws really are getting tough in our country. That's only cause we're the best country in the world though. :D
     
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  28. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    Best country as in the country that is able to accomodate the most illegal aliens?
     
  29. blkprl

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    Most everyone one that claims to be a citizen had illegal aliens as ancestors at one point in time except the blacks who were forced here against their will and the american indians whose land was forcibly taken
    Peace
     
  30. asdasd12345

    asdasd12345 Membership Revoked
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    i moved to america when i was 15 with my parents from england. it has honestly being the most grueling difficult experience ive had in my entire life. nothing comes easy for immigrants and since 9/11 it only got worse. if you dont have your papers (which i didnt) they take away your drivers license making it impossible to lead a normal life. i felt a bit hard done to because i didnt want to move here, my accent was so thick noone could understand me so i had a horrible time making friends. also within the first 2 months my mum had a heart attack and then incephilitis which caused her to go into a coma, she was given her last rites and everything, but she got better. but im still here struggling regardless.
     
  31. USbound

    USbound Junior Member
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    "I have a soft spot for immigrants that had to come over and adapt to a new life style. I will advocate very strongly for you to the committee."
    Where did they say that? I am going to apply..:)
     
  32. mosoriire

    mosoriire Senior Member
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    Please, I am a bit tired of the 'immigrating equals adversity' thing. Except for those who literally had to learn english answering the questions of rude-ass immigration folks, and dont come from a country where everyone is linguistically facile...

    US Census Bureau shows that a lot of immigrants who come to the US come from back grounds where their parents/family was/were substantially more educated than was avg for their country, and even for the US population...

    Now, I agree that having to find work at the age of 17, working as a share cropper, helping parents with a struggling business after school, definitely qualify as adversity.

    Other issues dont. So the hours I could work during my first few years were restricted. So what? So I had to adjust to terrible weather, and very unfriendly people. So what? I guess what I am trying to say is that a few of the posts here come perilously close to sounding whiny...To put things into perspective, I remind myself that if my grandfather hadnt migrated from Sierra Leone in the 1920s, I could be one of the kids that we see on the TV with the 'short-sleeve' or 'long-sleeve' (rebels routinely asked their victims if they wanted short-sleeve or long-sleeve type amputations during raids on refugee camps and other temporary habitations).

    Just saying...I made a choice, and I intend to deal with the consequnces without trying to obnoxiously use it to my advantage...
     
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  33. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    Temple

    I wouldn't apply there unless you like feeling like you are about to get shot evertytime you go outside. and of course you have to keep in mind that the chances of you having the same interviewer as me are small.
     
  34. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    Don't you think that because the parents are more educated makes it harder to adapt to life in the US. It is much easier to learn how to say "You want fries with that?" in English then to learn all the technical terminology associated with whatever profession they had before. My mother had to find a new career because she couldn't make the language transition in her previous career (electrical engineering). She is an accountant now but it took many years of classes and low end jobs for her to get there.

    You ask so what? Well what you describe sounds like adversity whether you like it or not. Different people have their own way of dealing with adversity and that makes us who we are. It's not being whinny it's merely recounting the struggles that we have had. And it sounds like you had plenty of your own.

    As for using it to your advantage...well let's just say that being an immigrant is a big part of your life. When it's time to write a personal statement, it is a type of experience that can tell the admissions committee what kind of person you are so that they can decide if you are right for their school. If they decide that your experiences as an immigrant make you the type of person they are looking for, what's wrong with that? How is this obnoxious?

     
  35. lotanna

    lotanna Child of God
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    Speakin of the issue with Sierra Leone, we can also say that if the US hadnt let Charles Taylor escape prison, and get back to Liberia, and all, then there wouldnt have been a crisis in Liberia which is intimately tied up with the Sierra Leone issue.
    You could be, or you could not be, too much what ifs
     
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  36. niema

    niema Member
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    Hello,

    I am also an immigrant from Russia, actually a political refugee. I have to say that my position definitely helped me during the admissions process. First of all, although I came from Russia over 10 years ago, the admissions committee overlooked the disparity between my verbal and science MCAT scores. Second, every single interviewer asked me about Russia and what the immigration process meant to me. I got to talk about myself in a personal manner, and they got a chance to know me better. Anyone who is an immigrant has a story to tell and the adcoms really like listening to someone with a story, or so I thought. For some reason, they were very impressed with the fact that I did not have an accent (I was only 11 when I came), although none of my immigrant friends do either, they seemed to think it was an accomplishment (definitely not an accomplishment). Anyway, as long as your paperwork is all legal, which I?m sure it is, I think that your position could only help you because if not for anything else, you will have something that differentiated you from most other applicants and a story to tell. Good luck in the process and PM me if you have any other questions.
     
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  37. mosoriire

    mosoriire Senior Member
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    Sorry, I lost you there...
     
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  38. chintu

    chintu Senior Member
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    As for whoever said we immigrants take it to our advantage and are being whiny, here's a little about my story. I came to this country 6 years ago. I had to stay with my uncle and aunt at first as my parents had to go back so my mom could finish her Ph. D and my brother could finish his high school. Need I describe what that experience was living with my aunt who's totally americanized and humiliated me at everything i did; mocking fun at how boorish and illmannerred i was- of course back then i could hardly speak any english and couldn't adapt to the american culture at first. To make long story short, once my parents were all here we find an apartment and settle ourselves, hoping that my mom could find a decent job of her line now that she had her Ph. D in Anatomy (she had taught 1st year med school anatomy in india for 10 yrs). She applies to just about every med school here for any possible position. Finally, she had to give up in order to support us and find a job at a local bank which didn't even require a high school diploma. As for my dad, he was an accountant in india had the same problem, hid indian degree from a small college wasn't recognized here and had to find work at a factory. Each of them used to work more than 50 hrs/wk to support the family as when we had first come we came here without a dime in our pocket. Now it has been six years and they own a business- my brother is a 2nd year med student and i m on my way to med school. I know they're both proud of us and we are proud of them. Only someone who'd gone through this experience can understand how adapting and settling in a new country can be coming from a whole different culture, lifestlyle, language, etc. can be.
     
  39. mosoriire

    mosoriire Senior Member
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    Please, dont misread my post or put words into my mouth...

    I did mention that I know a lot of immigrants have had difficult circumstances...Like immigrating under political/social hardship or whatever. But y'all have to realize that there are a lot of immigrants that come into this country without the same hardships...immigrants from Africa and Asia whose parents already spoke english, and are medical doctors. Immigrants whose parents work for the UN and could afford to have their families move without so much as a pip from the US govt. Immigrants whose families had the half a million dollars to buy the investment visa...(Immigrants to the US have historically been more educated than indigenous americans themselves lets not forget...)

    I could go on and on.

    My issue is that though a lot of you (I could add myself) have had difficulty, and could have been a lot worse...I've had a long list of issues working through immigrations in this country. I really dont need to add 'victim' to the list. Apparently, everyone doesnt feel the same way.

    Just looking at the responses here, I wonder how many of you would feel about AA...Should make for an interesting thread, but I dont have the energy...
     
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  40. chintu

    chintu Senior Member
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    mosoriire

    Sorry if you feel offended. I had no intention of getting personal. Thanks for the clarification; i would agree with most of the things you said. Maybe its just that I only know the immigrant families that have had to face many hardships and jump through many obstacles to finally settle in US. For example, i know of many middle-aged doctors from asian countries who immigrated with their families. For them, passing the licensure exams has been an impossible task, especially if the quality of medical education they received was inferior to US or if they went to med school a long time ago. So they have to compromise and quit their profession for the sake of the their families' future. Now, why they choose to come here is a different question. But my point is that even these well-to-do immigrant families have to face at least some sort of difficulty, some more so than others. Other middle-class families like mine have to go through much worse. But i agree with you that "immigration=adversity" is an incorrect generalization and those who have it relatively "easy" shouldn't use it to their advantage.

    I m glad that this thread was posted so us immigrants get to share what we go through and what our general opinions are. Once again, i didn't mean to offend you personally.

    chintu
     
  41. leavesam

    leavesam Member
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    I wonder if you and I had the same interviewer, TheRussian. Was it Dr. Leon Malmud, a Nuclear Medicine guy who used to be a Dean of Admissions?
     
  42. supereagles

    supereagles Spread your wings and fly
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    Amen to that. I would also like to add that most immigrants-and i mean most recent immigrants-migrate to the US in search of a better economic future. Adjusting to a new culture is definetely a tough task and in my opinion that equals adversity. Men, this new forum layout is killing me :thumbdown:
     
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  43. Andrew_Doan

    Andrew_Doan Doc, Author, Entrepreneur
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    I'm an immigrant and didn't have any problems. However, non-US residents and non-Citizens have much difficulty.

    I had stories to tell during my interviews about my family's escape during the Fall of Saigon.
     
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  44. CalBeE

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    If you're not a US Passport or Green Card Holder, you have to be selective in terms of where you apply. Some schools don't accept int'l students but may not state it explicitly anywhere. Some will only consider the best of the best, and for ordinary applicants like us there's no chance in hell.
     
  45. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    No I had Dr Rieves. I forget what she does. But I'm sure that many interviewers can sympathise with immigrants so I wouldn't be suprised if there were others out there.
     
  46. Maple

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    This has to be the most ignorant statement that I've come across in a while! :thumbdown: My family migrated here legally and we are indeed citizens. I'd like you to back up your claims with actual facts...otherwise I'm going to have to chalk this one up to yet another example of mental diarrhea on SDN! :rolleyes:
     

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