"Full cost" spay/neutering

[Foxhunter]

Over here though we're certainly making money on $250-$500 dollar spays, and I honestly can't believe there's that much of a cost difference between the US and Australia. Also, every clinic I've been at still bills a spay or neuter in an itemized manner. Maybe some low cost spay neuter places do the flat rate thing, it's not the standard though.

Any history on why that became the norm in Australia.

In the states I think our business models generally revolve around making most of the money on lots of yearly exams, vaccinations, and spays/neuters and this is the only way to keep prices down on bigger stuff/emergency work. This is a big reason veterinarians here are vocal about not creating mid level providers for shots, spays, and neuters. It would cause emergency costs to sky-rocket.

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[dyachei]

Over here though we're certainly making money on $250-$500 dollar spays, and I honestly can't believe there's that much of a cost difference between the US and Australia. Also, every clinic I've been at still bills a spay or neuter in an itemized manner. Maybe some low cost spay neuter places do the flat rate thing, it's not the standard though.

Any history on why that became the norm in Australia.

In the states I think our business models generally revolve around making most of the money on lots of yearly exams, vaccinations, and spays/neuters and this is the only way to keep prices down on bigger stuff/emergency work. This is a big reason veterinarians here are vocal about not creating mid level providers for shots, spays, and neuters. It would cause emergency costs to sky-rocket.

We have a flat rate with "add-ons" for weight, age of pet, and in-heat status.

The point isn't that you can't make any money on it. The point is that if you charged it the same way you do for any other abdominal procedure it would likely be 2-4 times the cost we are charging now at "full cost" places. I can tell you that an explore at my hospital would likely be in the $1000 range. and a spay is $300. That's a huge difference and they are both abdominal procedures. Certainly spays are "routine" but it is still a major abdominal procedure.

 

[felinelvr44]

We have a flat rate with "add-ons" for weight, age of pet, and in-heat status.

The point isn't that you can't make any money on it. The point is that if you charged it the same way you do for any other abdominal procedure it would likely be 2-4 times the cost we are charging now at "full cost" places. I can tell you that an explore at my hospital would likely be in the $1000 range. and a spay is $300. That's a huge difference and they are both abdominal procedures. Certainly spays are "routine" but it is still a major abdominal procedure.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying but what about the time difference between the two procedures? If a spay takes 20 minutes and an abdominal explore takes an hour (my cat's took an hour and half...) then doesn't a price difference make sense? Just because they're both abdominal procedures doesn't mean they are the same. If we can do 3 spays in the time it takes to do one abdominal explore then that kind of makes sense cost wise...

 

[dyachei]

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying but what about the time difference between the two procedures? If a spay takes 20 minutes and an abdominal explore takes an hour (my cat's took an hour and half...) then doesn't a price difference make sense? Just because they're both abdominal procedures doesn't mean they are the same. If we can do 3 spays in the time it takes to do one abdominal explore then that kind of makes sense cost wise...

Spays can take over an hour if there are complications. So time difference may or may not be there. I know a surgeon that can do surgeries on PSS in less than 30 minutes but I can guarantee the cost is more than $300.

And some explores only take 15-20 minutes but we usually don't discount those (like finding a giant mass and the owner doesn't want to remove it).

 

[sunshinevet]

Over here though we're certainly making money on $250-$500 dollar spays, and I honestly can't believe there's that much of a cost difference between the US and Australia. Also, every clinic I've been at still bills a spay or neuter in an itemized manner. Maybe some low cost spay neuter places do the flat rate thing, it's not the standard though.

Any history on why that became the norm in Australia.

In the states I think our business models generally revolve around making most of the money on lots of yearly exams, vaccinations, and spays/neuters and this is the only way to keep prices down on bigger stuff/emergency work. This is a big reason veterinarians here are vocal about not creating mid level providers for shots, spays, and neuters. It would cause emergency costs to sky-rocket.

Well, S/N is regarded a loss leader here in Aus - there are lots of clinics losing or making bugger all on the cost of their speys. I am really surprised to hear that S/N is used to effectively "subsidise" the cost of other procedures where you work, I wonder if this is the norm throughout the US? Just I have definately heard to of other US people I know referring to S/N as a loss leader. That said, I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually charge more than around $350 for a spey.

Also do your clinics not have a flat spey rate? For instance, pretty much all the clinics I've worked at have had flat rates for the entire procedure based on weight. Is that not how yours works? We might still itemise the invoice but the cost of everything is zeroed out.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying but what about the time difference between the two procedures? If a spay takes 20 minutes and an abdominal explore takes an hour (my cat's took an hour and half...) then doesn't a price difference make sense? Just because they're both abdominal procedures doesn't mean they are the same. If we can do 3 spays in the time it takes to do one abdominal explore then that kind of makes sense cost wise...

But if you billed out a spey the exact same way you billed out an abdominal explore and just reduced the time to 20min, would it cost more than what you are currently charging for a spey? The reality is that very few costs for an abdominal explore are truly changeable dependant on how long your in there - mainly anaesthesia and a surgeons fee. The remainder - hospitalisation, pack fees, pain meds etc are fixed and usually make up a large chunk of your bill. at every place where I worked these charges alone usually came to more than what we were charging for a spey. And I think its also important to remember dyachei's point...

Spays can take over an hour if there are complications. So time difference may or may not be there. I know a surgeon that can do surgeries on PSS in less than 30 minutes but I can guarantee the cost is more than $300.

And some explores only take 15-20 minutes but we usually don't discount those (like finding a giant mass and the owner doesn't want to remove it).

Speys are also going to take you over an hour when you first graduate. I think a lot of people here have seen some pretty rapid, experienced S/N surgeons but how many have worked with a new grad? I've seen new grads take over 2 hours to do a big fat bitch spey. I think the idea that we charge less for a spey because its "quick" or "easy" is underestimating the difficulty of the spey, and if you only charge for the equivilant of 20min of a vets time, your probably going to be shortchanging yourself a lot.