Funding Grad School

[vampyrica]

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Hi all! I wanted to start a discussion about graduate school and how to finance it. For a little background, I am interested in getting my MPH or VPH regardless if I go to vet school or not. From what I'm understanding, a MPH/VPH program would have to be paid out-of-pocket as opposed to a graduate level degree with alot of research involved in which tuition would be paid for (If I am wrong, please correct me). I just received my first bill for my undergrad student loans and I am 38k in the hole and cannot afford an extra 60-90k on top of what vet school would possibly be. My IS is UPenn so regardless I'm cooked for loans.

How did you go about obtaining your graduate degree? What did you study? How did you finance it? (Did it help you get into vet school when you reapplied/if you reapplied?)

Any insight on this matter would be much appreciated!

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I did a PhD in an animal science field. In general, animal science pays a lot less than other STEM degrees. Most of the students I know at my university and in other programs did not have their tuition waived, and their graduate stipends ranged from 12k-24k a year. You can get through without taking on debt but it's a lot tighter than other fields, and I do know students in my own program that needed loans to get by. My degree took 5 years and I'm currently in the home stretch of a 2 year post doc. I don't have any debt but I also don't have any savings. Overall it's been a really ****ty time from a financial viewpoint (and other viewpoints) and I'm excited to be out of the grad student/post doc life soon.

In general, I'd say don't do a graduate degree unless you can't get into the career you want without one. Would you be using your graduate degree as a fall back in case vet school doesn't work out? Do you want to work in a field that requires both degrees? Would a graduate degree just be a stepping stone into vet school? If you go into a research field you'll be taking graduate level classes at the same time as conducting your research, which, depending on your lab and PI, will be more than a full time job. It's hard. You have to really, really want it to make it through to your defense. I wouldn't necessarily suggest a research degree as a stepping stone into vet school, although I know three students in my department who did that with their master's. They didn't accumulate debt during their degree but they all did experience some level of academic hell. All of them went into clinical practice, so they're not necessarily using their MS in their day to day careers.

On the flip side, I get to do exciting animal disease research and I really love the career path that my PhD has opened up to me. My finances suck right now, but it will be a lot easier to build things up again since I didn't take on vet school levels of debt. I'm glad I took this path and honestly, now that I'm out, there is absolutely nothing that could entice me into signing up for vet school.

 

[abrew13]

A differing viewpoint to PBC (financially), I did an MSc in animal sciences, had my tuition waived, and had a ~19k stipend/ year (PhD students at my university start ~32k). I also knew I wanted to go to vet school afterwards, so I had a part time job on the side and used those two years to really save up money, so I ended up in a much better financial position going into vet school than I would’ve been without it. However, I was advised and am of the mindset that if you’re paying for a graduate degree, you’re doing it wrong.

Where I fully agree with PBC is that you shouldn’t do a graduate degree unless you would be happy using it if vet school doesn’t work out. I did my masters in reproductive physiology, and while I intend to do therio so I can use it with my DVM, I also would’ve been more than happy to work within the field if I hadn’t gone to vet school. It is A LOT of work to solely use as a stepping stone, which is why you really need to enjoy what you’re doing. Especially if you did a research degree instead, 40-80 hour weeks on research you don’t like sounds absolutely miserable.

To your last questions, I do believe it helped strengthen my application. I had an average undergrad GPA (and was rejected from everywhere I applied the first cycle). I made a 4.0 in graduate school which helped, but I think the research/experience aspect weighs heavier. You’ll see a lot of students on these threads with 4.0 GPAs in masters programs getting denied from school. I think the grades alone only hold so much weight, but the experience and research you can get out of grad school helps you stand out.

If there’s anything specifically you’d like to discuss, you’re more than welcome to message me!

 

[vampyrica]

I did a PhD in an animal science field. In general, animal science pays a lot less than other STEM degrees. Most of the students I know at my university and in other programs did not have their tuition waived, and their graduate stipends ranged from 12k-24k a year. You can get through without taking on debt but it's a lot tighter than other fields, and I do know students in my own program that needed loans to get by. My degree took 5 years and I'm currently in the home stretch of a 2 year post doc. I don't have any debt but I also don't have any savings. Overall it's been a really ****ty time from a financial viewpoint (and other viewpoints) and I'm excited to be out of the grad student/post doc life soon.

In general, I'd say don't do a graduate degree unless you can't get into the career you want without one. Would you be using your graduate degree as a fall back in case vet school doesn't work out? Do you want to work in a field that requires both degrees? Would a graduate degree just be a stepping stone into vet school? If you go into a research field you'll be taking graduate level classes at the same time as conducting your research, which, depending on your lab and PI, will be more than a full time job. It's hard. You have to really, really want it to make it through to your defense. I wouldn't necessarily suggest a research degree as a stepping stone into vet school, although I know three students in my department who did that with their master's. They didn't accumulate debt during their degree but they all did experience some level of academic hell. All of them went into clinical practice, so they're not necessarily using their MS in their day to day careers.

On the flip side, I get to do exciting animal disease research and I really love the career path that my PhD has opened up to me. My finances suck right now, but it will be a lot easier to build things up again since I didn't take on vet school levels of debt. I'm glad I took this path and honestly, now that I'm out, there is absolutely nothing that could entice me into signing up for vet school.

Thank you for your insight! I am actually incredibly interested in zoonotic and foreign animal disease research and prevention. I did a program this past summer at KSU and participated in the NLTP Fellowship program which is partnered with the USDA. I am not sure if a MPH or VPH would be better suited for my goals. Vet school has always been the end goal but with my poor undergraduate GPA, I know it will be difficult to get in on that alone (cGPA: 3.11, and they're not even in courses I need to re-take bc my pre-req GPA is a 3.4-3.6 depending on the school). How I picture my career is working as a veterinarian in a government sector (state department of AG, or internationally) and working with both researchers and animals.

My parents like to push the PhD route on me, however, I don't feel like my heart is in a PhD. I would want a Masters which would both further me in my career as a veterinarian , but also benefit me if I chose to pursue something else.

Edit: I'd also like to add! I currently work as a research technologist at my alma mater where I work with mouse models to mimic human craniofacial deformities. The PI's are studying the development of the mandible and where some of the genes we are looking for begin to present themselves during the embryonic stages so I spend alot of time both in the mouse room, and in the lab. I run PCR, genotype the mice, collect and extract DNA, stage and stain the mouse embryos and stain/analyze histology slides which I really really really enjoy!

 

[vampyrica]

A differing viewpoint to PBC (financially), I did an MSc in animal sciences, had my tuition waived, and had a ~19k stipend/ year (PhD students at my university start ~32k). I also knew I wanted to go to vet school afterwards, so I had a part time job on the side and used those two years to really save up money, so I ended up in a much better financial position going into vet school than I would’ve been without it. However, I was advised and am of the mindset that if you’re paying for a graduate degree, you’re doing it wrong.

Where I fully agree with PBC is that you shouldn’t do a graduate degree unless you would be happy using it if vet school doesn’t work out. I did my masters in reproductive physiology, and while I intend to do therio so I can use it with my DVM, I also would’ve been more than happy to work within the field if I hadn’t gone to vet school. It is A LOT of work to solely use as a stepping stone, which is why you really need to enjoy what you’re doing. Especially if you did a research degree instead, 40-80 hour weeks on research you don’t like sounds absolutely miserable.

To your last questions, I do believe it helped strengthen my application. I had an average undergrad GPA (and was rejected from everywhere I applied the first cycle). I made a 4.0 in graduate school which helped, but I think the research/experience aspect weighs heavier. You’ll see a lot of students on these threads with 4.0 GPAs in masters programs getting denied from school. I think the grades alone only hold so much weight, but the experience and research you can get out of grad school helps you stand out.

If there’s anything specifically you’d like to discuss, you’re more than welcome to message me!

Thank you for your response! For your MSc in animal sciences, did you have to declare what you wanted to research from the get-go or did you get paired up with a faculty member and then discuss what your interest would be? I'm from PA and have alot of research heavy universities I could apply to, but I also want to take finances into consideration and the fact that I haven't worked as a tech for about a year now so I would be pushing it with being out of vetmed for so long.

I work in research right now at my alma mater and I love love love it! Unfortunately, since I'm considered university staff, I'm on the clock 9-5 so I can't pursue a masters program until my term is over in August, or else I would take advantage of the generous tuition discount offered by the university and just do my MPH online (unless you believe an MPH is not suited for my goals and believe a regular research masters is more suited. Please read my response to PBC for my goals c: )

 

[PrincessButterCup]

How I picture my career is working as a veterinarian is possibly working in a government sector (state department of AG, or internationally) and working with both researchers and animals.

You may already be doing this, but one approach that can be helpful is to look at job postings for your field and see what they're looking for in applicants. Additionally, look at the profile or CV (if available) of people currently in these jobs. That may help you decide between the MPH or VPH, or maybe put you on to other educational options. I'm hoping to go into government research, and I've been on the USDA ARS list serv for vacancy announcements for a while now. It's been the best way to get an idea of that specific job market without just constantly checking job boards. I probably wouldn't have noticed the job opening I recently applied for if I didn't get those emails, either, since the announcement can be open for such a brief time. I hope that helps!

 

[abrew13]

For your MSc in animal sciences, did you have to declare what you wanted to research from the get-go or did you get paired up with a faculty member and then discuss what your interest would be?

I reached out to a specific professor whose research I was interested in asking if he had space in his lab (ironically he left the university a few weeks after accepting me and I ended up in a different lab, but that ended up being a huge blessing). I didn’t declare what I wanted to research (because 1. I had no idea at that point and 2. oftentimes masters students are given projects based on grants/funding the PI has, not necessarily your specific interests), but I did have to reach out to an individual professor and be accepted by him before being accepted by the department.

I haven't worked as a tech for about a year now so I would be pushing it with being out of vetmed for so long

I worked as an assistant but left when I started grad school. When I applied I hadn’t worked in a clinic in close to two years, and I don’t think that hurt my application. I still got to work with veterinarians and animals in grad school, but it wasn’t in a clinic setting. There are lots of ways to get veterinary experience outside of a clinic, especially if you’re wanting to go into lab animal medicine!

unless you believe an MPH is not suited for my goals and believe a regular research masters is more suited

I don’t know enough about an MPH to speak for or against it, but also reading your career goals I think you should definitely look into a more research heavy masters. Especially wanting to go into lab animal medicine, a research based masters could give you some good insight into the field. For me, I worked with cattle and goats for two years, and along with the animal experience I got a lot of insight into the care and management of laboratory animals. I learned a lot more about the rules and regulations that go into animal research, and I got to work with their veterinarians fairly closely both for research and for the animals general care. Your mouse research seems really interesting (mainly because I also love staining embryos), and you could get research and veterinary experience out of something like that.


This was sort of all over the place and for that I apologize lol.

 

[Cats4Lyfe]

I am almost done with my MPH at Mizzou. The program I am in has a veterinary emphasis and is completely online. I have really enjoyed the program and the professors and advisors for the program are very helpful! The cost was cheaper than many of the other masters programs i looked at.

 

[jsmitty2]

Hi there! I’m currently in the Master of Veterinary Science (MVS) program at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign looking at going to vet school after graduation, and I’d be happy to share my perspective on graduate school and financing it. Your concerns are very valid—graduate school can be a huge financial commitment, especially when paired with undergrad debt and the potential costs of vet school. The MVS program I’m in is currently offers an overview of the first few years of vet school, which I think offers an advantage in terms of seeing what vet school will be like. When it comes to financing the degree, most students in the program (including myself) either have part-time or full-time jobs. Additionally, since I’m in a graduate program, I’ve deferred my undergrad loans for now, but I’m still mindful of the debt piling up. Even though I am not currently paying off debt, student loans are in the back of my mind. To prevent the debt from being super overwhelming, I keep a tight budget and put money aside every month. However, t’s tough when you’re already facing undergrad debt. What helped me was breaking down my long-term goals and mapping out how each degree would help me get there. If vet school is still in your plan, think about how a graduate degree like the MVS could strengthen your application or open doors to related careers in case vet school doesn’t happen right away.

When it comes to academics, the program has many goals but one of the program's goals is to strengthen your application into vet school which is why I chose the program. Additionally, the program is only one year and is offered both online and in-person on campus consisting of 32 credit hours which is very do-able. The on-campus portion of the program is new so there is not a lot of hands-on learning when it comes to animals but if you want to get more hands-on learning experience, you should look into getting a job or volunteer experience through the vet school teaching hospital or a nearby clinic. Additionally, there is a wildlife clinic on campus that allows students to gain experience and work as long as there are open positions. The curriculum consists of classes that take you through the first few years of vet school such as classes in animal anatomy and physiology and biology of veterinary pathogens. All classes are taught by either DVMs and/or people who work in the vet school which offers an opportunity to pick their minds about how you can best succeed not only in getting into vet school but also how to thrive once you are there. If you have any questions, you can message me for more information or contact the program directly at [email protected].

 

[Cowsrcool]

I got a masters in animal sciences with a research focus +thesis and got my entire tuition waived plus a stipend for being a teaching assistant/ research assistant. I do NOT recommend getting a masters that cannot be funded. You shouldn’t be paying. If you do it right you can save a lot of money to then put towards vet school. I’ve lived well below my means during this time period and have been able to save a ton more than I would have otherwise.

 

[abrew13]

I do NOT recommend getting a masters that cannot be funded. You shouldn’t be paying.

This. Paying for a masters degree is a scam, especially if you’re taking on debt just to try to improve an application.